MikroTik

stephenpatrick

Hello!

Drop us an email to discuss, ideas and thoughts are welcome -

stephen
at
cablefree
dot
net

Best regards

Stephen

stephenpatrick

Torrent download of 6.30.2 seems stuck on 335 / 356MB, 93.09 %

Direct downloads seem fine though.

Update to that, it now seems to have completed the download.
Guess there weren't enough seeders -

stephenpatrick

Torrent download of 6.30.2 seems stuck on 335 / 356MB, 93.09 %

Direct downloads seem fine though.

stephenpatrick

Intel 82574L still not working in 4.3 it seems.
Not sure what's up here

[edit] under system>respources, PCI tab, all interfaces showing as "unknown device"

I'll send a supout.rif to tech support

Regards

stephenpatrick

Sent - based on ROS 3.30

Look forward to feedback,

Regards

stephenpatrick

Sure - we'll do that and send it ASAP today.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Intel 82574L Gigabit Ethernet controller

Is this supported, or going to be supported?
It's becoming quite a popular Lan-on-Motherboard for some embedded solutions now.
ports don't show up in 3.30 or 4.0 beta 4.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Intel 82574L Gigabit Ethernet controller

Is this supported, or going to be supported?

Regards

stephenpatrick

Just for completeness/clear up confusion:
"radiomanager" is from our company, CableFree.
You have to put a script on the box to allow the software to connect.
But, the current version doesn't support 3.x, a new version is due soon.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Most high-spec CPUs have temperature sensors (usually a diode) embedded.
But the circuit to read it (SMB bus) isn't always on the CPU AFAIK.

I'd like to see x86 temp sensors supported - typically the chipsets emit more heat, and hence it's more important to monitor when mounted outside ..

Regards

stephenpatrick

ATPC is often requested, and needed for some applications
separately,
DFS2 is aso required for USA in 5GHz bands.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Some those features (ATPC, DFS2) have been asked for before. Some would be possible with some ROS software updates, and are perfectly possible AFAIK. Others, like 100Mbps, would require new hardware/cards unless you can accept a "bonding" solution with multiple cards. 802.11n might provide...

stephenpatrick

... or a nicely modular design, with lots of PCI-express slots, so you can add the ports as you need them 4 or more at a time. There are plenty of such examples of embedded SBC with PCI expansion slots, but not router-optimised ones with PCI-E which is really needed to avoid PCI-bottleneck at GBE sp...

stephenpatrick

A related point seeing as screws are being discussed: IMHO it would look nicer if countersunk screws are used in cases. I know there is a tiny difference in cost (a countersunk hole in case cover might cost slightly more than a plain hole) But the finished effect is much nicer. And end customers see...

stephenpatrick

One of the problems is that currently MT are tieing software version numbers to regulatory domain settings. An upgrade/downgrade of software affects what RF settings are supported! I think quite strongly that there should be a separate "regulatory domain" file, which could be FTP'd onto ra...

stephenpatrick

They are presumably mild steel, not stainless steel, and yes, they do rust - have seen this.
Probably depends how the units were stored/packed/shipped.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Also be careful - Equipment designed to run from Telco power supplies are normally specified 36-72V, to allow for the fluctuation of the battery banks as they charge/discharge. That's quite a range. Most data equipment with 48V input is designed with the 802.3af POE spec in mind, which has a much na...

stephenpatrick

Excellent idea, however it's implemented (code or script), hope this makes it into the real world

stephenpatrick

Cool! We'll await in anticipation -

stephenpatrick

AFAIK it's important for wifi VOIP services.

IMHO MT should put this on their "to do" list. In a "tender" scenario, products can be rejected if the features are missing, even if the customer doesn't end up using them. Crazy, but true.

Regards

stephenpatrick

An OEM-brandable and operator/OEM-customisable web-box would be really useful. Allow OEM logos, operator logos, and let OEM or operator constrain access to features. e.g. a wireless CPE could just display a few options, such as signal strength, throughput, IP & MAC address, uptime etc But a SOHO...

stephenpatrick

we had too few requests from our customer about this feature. Suggest anyone who seriously wants/needs this post a "me too" here ... BTW, some of the requests are from volume users - such as a major operator asking for 100's-1000's of units with integrated ADSL for backhaul. But if it isn...

stephenpatrick

... however, it should be 1 if its coming from a GPS device. This is related to a previous debate, "GPS wireless sync". To crudely summarise (I am not a developer) as I understand: - Low cost GPS devices have RS232 interface - RS232 interface has latency, and add drivers+OS, is hard to de...

stephenpatrick

There hasn't been a formal announcement, but given the number of "moved threads" and previous experience when 2.9.x "entered release status", MT people assume you should post questions in the regular forum areas (wireless, general networking, etc) because it's now "released&...

stephenpatrick

Brilliant thanks ... but IMHO don't put it too high on the "wish list" because there are lots of other things to add first ..

Regards

stephenpatrick

... yes, but: It would be extremely neat and handy to be able to insert a USB stick "with the equivalent of the .ISO" Boot from USB, run the installer which then puts ROS on the default (main) partition (compact flash or DOM) I know this is really only an issue for x86-users where netinsta...

stephenpatrick

btw - why RB to RB test is faster than PC to PC test? PCs should not be slower than RBs, no? If I understand the test config right, it's because traffic from the PCs is flowing "through" the routers. That means the routers have to process packets on the Ethernet, (software) Bridge *and* W...

stephenpatrick

We make some too, look here
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/CableFree ... bitRouters
which use Intel mobile CPUs, up to Core2Duo 2GHz+
I imagine the RB1000 would be a lot cheaper when it's launched of course.

Regards

stephenpatrick

It's not as easy as you make it seem. this information is different in each driver, and we would have to work on each driver to make this information available. Ah thanks Normis - this is the "real" problem here - multiple drivers to support "extract of stats". Suggestion: I won...

stephenpatrick

It's been asked for before - and yes, it's very much needed, especially for outdoor/rooftop routers. I bet the feature is already there in the drivers in the Kernel. Most decent NIC drivers Windows (esp. Intel) have this feature. Make sure you've voted for this on the Wiki. Generally, I sense the MT...

stephenpatrick

The concept sounds interesting.
Is 6.4GHz legal in Russia.
I can think of uses in 10GHz, for some countries that allow that.
Are there versions that do that?

Regards

stephenpatrick

We test frequency converters: 2.4 GHz <-> 5.9-6.4 GHz.

Any chance you could post a link, or drop an email, with links to converters like those?
There are some opportunities for non-standard frequencies -

Regards

stephenpatrick

you can already do this by using v3.0 and multicast package. Then you can forward Multicast traffic over the wireless and there will not be any ack for that traffic. Thanks Uldis. Sounds too simple to be true - but perhaps it is that simple! If anyone tries this with success, please post - am sure ...

stephenpatrick

I don't think Nstreme2 for P2MP was asked for here. What's asked for is one-way transmission, UDP multicast video packet stream, without ACK. Any "listening" station (on correct freq/security/SSID etc) could receive the stream. No ACKs are sent to the base station. Probably needs a major h...

stephenpatrick

I'd be prepared to place a small bet that it's the famous "Via chipset lockup problem" still not fixed, not ROS. When it locks up, does it leave network interfaces "stuck" (not passing traffic) but the RS232 console working? That's what the older Via chipsets did, consistently, w...

stephenpatrick

Anyway in a major city crowd, it's less than probable to have clear spectrum to do it wireless with non-licensed radios. Exactly ... most users wouldn't want to bet on 4x 40MHz channels being free (and staying clear) in many major cities in the world. Of course for a rural shot, it could work thoug...

stephenpatrick

Whats is the cost of a licence? Is it a per year thing? Depends what country you're in, what freq band, what channel width (3.5, 7, 14, 28, 56MHz in ETSI) And yes, generally, you pay per year, unless you're a huge utility, or the government itself. I have heard of fees in the US$300 - $2400 per yea...

stephenpatrick

[not a sales pitch, the following is generally true in the industry] High speed links: Licensed Microwave - up to 622Mbps FDX net throughput, Gigabit Ethernet interface 70GHz Millimeter Wave - 5km is possible (but not in tropical rainzone), 1Gbps FDX net throughput MT-based radios, 77Mbps FDX Nstrem...

stephenpatrick

In my experience, an isolated dc-dc power supply is more complex and expensive than a non-isolated one. Making a 9-48V dc-dc non-isolated is not expensive or complicated Making 9-24V dc-dc non-isolated is marginally cheaper, because lower V-rated capacitors required, and easier to design also. Isola...

stephenpatrick

Guessing is more fun! The following was posted on a mail list thread: The RB411 CPE board will be demonstrated at the Egypt MUM. This is a drop-in replacement for the RB133C with connectors, board size, and mounting holes the same as the RB133C. It will be appoximately 3X faster with the same price ...

stephenpatrick

Turning off the router during those 24 hours also stops the clock ... so you can run it for an hour today to build it, then 23 hours next week when you get back to it. Is that true on battery-backed RTC x86 systems? i.e. is it 24 hours of calendar/clock time, or 24 hours of "up-time"? The...

stephenpatrick

Not quite fair IMHO - 3.0RC is not yet in "release" status: one has to accept that status - caveat emptor - and just like previously with 2.9, there was no real online documentation until release version was out. Quite right: MT should put the effort into making the code stable, rather tha...

stephenpatrick

Yes, that would be *very* nice.
On x86 systems it's not always convenient to license the same day as physical manufacture - can cause production issues, especially on hardware/BIOS that doesn't support PXE-boot, where there is more "messing around" involved.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Correct, Holes should be on the sides (note plural) on 1U equipment - or alternatively, the back. Height of 1U means 40mm fans, which are not usually whisper-quiet - but then, you don't usually put 1U racks in your living room :-) Suggest put 2x 40mm fans on *one* side of the rack, blowing the air o...

stephenpatrick

CM9's dont have such good near-adjacent channel filtering compared to more recent radios.
Try newer ones -

stephenpatrick

That one has been asked a few times.

"no time soon" unless things have changed.

Lack of drivers for available miniPCI cards being a major sticking point.

A lot of votes for it though ...

Regards

stephenpatrick

U can use 48V 2A power supply

.... Bzzzzzt.... there goes your board, up in smoke ....

Seriously, don't apply 48V to that board !

stephenpatrick

Ghmorris is right on that - probably not enough isolation with dual-pol antennas to use high power cards.
Try turning down the TX power, it may interfere less with the adjacent receiver.

Regards

stephenpatrick

Support for USB modems sounds a great idea, because AFAIK it also means less of an "approvals" problem connecting to public telephone lines, assuming the USB modem has approvals already. Probably depends on the country how strict that is. I think it would be great because it would enable &...

stephenpatrick

More general note on power, might apply here Sometimes, the "stiffness" of a power supply affects the ability of complex boards to boot, due to speed of the PSU startup. Example, an ATX PC supply provides power immediately to the rails; a laptop "brick" often has a slower "o...

stephenpatrick

Exactly - So the "which/why should I use each" decision would look something like: RouterOS Software Bridge - can control traffic flow - can monitor flow - can do L2 and L3 functions like firewall .. but uses CPU power to do it Hardware Bridge Feature - faster throughput - low CPU load .. ...

stephenpatrick

There seems confusion about terminology: Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_bridge and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_switch Which includes the line "Network switch is a marketing term rather than a technical one". At a basic level, Bridging = switching, when operating at L...

stephenpatrick

There do appear to be Linux drivers/apps for them: http://www.crystalfontz.com/links/index.html but the back of the board http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/635/CFA_635_Back_1024.html they have removed any chip idents so you can't see what's used ... I don't have any USB versions, but the serial v...

stephenpatrick

If you want to support the buttons, that's great, and specifically for wireless installs: - change channel - change band and channel width - scan/view choice of visible SSIDs (and select which to connect to if possible) with signal levels of each - select frequency (assuming it's an AP) - alter TX p...

stephenpatrick

Interesting stuff. There's some good wikipedia articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMD and though you're right most of the motivation for CPU vendors making 64bit is floating point, vector operations, there...

stephenpatrick

Just a few thoughts here: Support for USB displays could be really neat for outdoor radios/routers: - there are waterproof USB connectors available for the case - makes the display demountable/removable after install/alignment - USB port supplies enough power (500mA) to power the display - put the d...

stephenpatrick

Anyone interested, best to drop a mail direct: [Of course this is MT's support forum, not an advertising board] stephen <dot> patrick [at] cablefree <dot> co <dot> uk We have a lot of customer experience with these fast x86 platforms now, extremely positive, many high-profile references. Regards

stephenpatrick

Interesting statement:

Care to expand on that?
Any specific reasons?

stephenpatrick

Err ... we've supplied countless government agencies with secure wireless links over the years. Granted, mostly not RF ones, but even so, they actually preferred wireless instead/as well as fibre for various reasons. Protocol overhead? for a decent encryption? a "key exchange" every few mi...

stephenpatrick

That is a really helpful comparison -
nice one -
Suggest adding wireless throughput too?

Regards

stephenpatrick

What's the highest throughput reported so far on RB333? and CPU loading? It would be great to see a performance comparison to x86, in Nstreme and Nstreme2 IMHO the newer RB's look great, there should be some formal comparative benchmarking, say PPS and Mbps in various wired/wireless bridged/routed c...

stephenpatrick

Dear Sandro,
Do drop us an email, we'll send you the script.
It's requested not to put it on a public forum, because of the obvious security risk.

Best regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

From here: http://software.cablefreesolutions.com Download, follow instructions to register. All free. Note: you need to run a script to set a customer user ID on your routers/CPEs to log on - You're welcome to mail us to request this: stephen <dot> patrick [at] cablefree <dot> co <dot> uk Regards C...

stephenpatrick

"Cost" is a major factor in high volume low-cost boards. Putting the mPCI slots hanging over the edge allows smaller board size, which saves money Some other boards put the mPCI slots inboard, often over other chips (CPU, ethernet controllers), which isn't always good from a heat point-of-...

stephenpatrick

And DFS - so it can be legally used in EU -

And potentially DFS2 or whatever the FCC now require for the 5GHz bands in USA -

Regards

stephenpatrick

Both links should be correct - one leads to the other. Just for clarity, that's CableFree's Radiomanager software, which is a Windows GUI, works with most versions of ROS, is frequently updated (with auto version update prompt) and lets you see most aspects of a radio configuration - ideal for P2P l...

stephenpatrick

... because a half-decent hacker with a couple of routerboards and antennas, or for that matter, a hostile organisation with enough motivation and budget would be through it and onto the network in not-very-long time. Corporates and Government users want to see multi-layered security - no one layer ...

stephenpatrick

But in a point to point situation with stable signal this is acceptable. That's fine for a short link. But not if it's a long link, where weather effects adversely affects the link margin. This is one of the whole reasons for ATPC, the transmitter only puts out high power in fade conditions - means...

stephenpatrick

we use spatial diversity with 3.6M dishes (about 30M spacing between antennas) to get enough path variation that we can run at 99.999+% on licensed 6 gig protected diverse wireless. Raises an interesting point: for spatial diversity requiring ~30m antenna spacing, for licensed links the ODU<>IDU in...

stephenpatrick

is ATPC a big problem? Can it be scripted? Last time I checked, altering the TX power on the AP in ROS disconnects the CPEs - temporarily - which then have to re-associate. A script implementing ATPC would have that effect. That might render a "legally usable" system but a very annoying o...

stephenpatrick

Not tried, but having 3 Atheros cards on top of each other, I'd suggest avoiding closely spaced channels, otherwise interference between them is more than likely.

Regards

stephenpatrick

What's probably easier, an adaptor for PCI-E Atheros cards. PCI-E Atheros cards already exist for laptops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express_Mini_Card PCI-express uses serial signalling at 2.5Gbps, with 8b10b coded data, with the clock information embe...

stephenpatrick

Also, in many cases, it's not just a question of "adding a battery": In x86 systems the RTC is normally on a separate chip (not the CPU) which remains powered by the battery whilst the rest of the system is powered down. I don't know how current-gen RB's do the RTC, if it's done in the mai...

stephenpatrick

Most x86 boards (including embedded ones) have battery backup for the RTC. However, the time usually drifts because they use cheap Xtals and users should use NTP anyway for long-term accuracy MT have missed battery-backup of the RB's IMHO mostly for cost reasons, which is quite reasonable. However, ...

stephenpatrick

I might be blind today, but can't see any settings for the switch. Where do you find them? - Winbox? - CLI? BTW, 87Mbps UDP through a L2 hardware switch isn't full line rate - I'd expect to see a bit more - like 97Mbps. Maybe there's some reason for this - depends if ROS is having to do processing t...

stephenpatrick

Not a guess - I knew it

What users will need to guess, "how to use the feature" ...

Regards

stephenpatrick

AFAIK there is an embedded L2 Ethernet Switch inside the Infineon SOC/CPU on RB100 series. Sounds like MT have added support for it. Will be interesting to see what it does - [Edit] Infineon shortform datasheet here: http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6...

stephenpatrick

Sometimes AFAIK this is necessary on production releases too.
I button or routine "cleanse old WinBox files" would be useful, because though an expert knows what to do, an end-user doesn't always. Would be helpful IMHO.

stephenpatrick

Thanks very much for replying -

Hmm - that's what I did, no joy.

What did you do at the AP end?

Not using WDS (of course) or Nstreme (yet) for that matter on this attempt

Regards

stephenpatrick

Anyone know, how to set up the Pseudobridge mode?
Tried setting it up, but can't get traffic through the subscriber end

Regards

stephenpatrick

Very smart move. Many of the "big boys" put such "accelerators" or "TCP offload engines" on their line cards.
I wonder about creating a PCI-express add-in cards for accelerating x86 / Core2Duo / Core2Quad -base routers?
There's an idea ...

stephenpatrick

Very interesting.
Are there any (exact or approximate) performance benchmarks on
"PowerPC E300 266/333MHz CPU" compared to x86, MIPs, etc?

Regards

stephenpatrick

IMHO, Use a decent x86 system with MT.
AFAIK a 1GHz CPU would remove that PPS bottleneck, which is limited by the CPU.
MT is much more flexible than Alvarion, I don't think there's much comparison.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

That looks like a Wavesat-chipset-based card.
Wavesat have already had 3.5GHz cards out for a while through ODMs

MT will no doubt reply but the answer is "no time soon" because of lack of open-source drivers.

Regards

stephenpatrick

I was trying to be constructive not critical - it's an excellent idea. A few tips on making good videos from an expert (not me!) on the products/solutions could really help you. Does Google Video have the same limitation on length? Personally I like that more than YouTube. The other thing to do woul...

stephenpatrick

I think he's complaining about source quality, not your server which am sure is better. No criticism intended, I think videos of MUM presentations an excellent idea. Suggestion: future MUMs, get a high quality DVR/VCR on a tripod so you get really nice stable images. Check lighting levels, is tricky...

stephenpatrick

Might be a crazy question: Is it feasible to do VPN or any other secure tunnel on a fast MT box at 1Gbps full duplex? [edit] I mean a single pipe, encrypted. so each end, a router with 2x GigE ports, one for user traffic the other for the encrypted link. Or is that just too tough for a software-only...

stephenpatrick

Sure - if that doesn't offend MT (if it does, please delete this one post, not the whole thread) The manual in on the public area of Moto's site, so no confidentiality issues and I don't think I've broken any publishing rules by doing this: http://www.motorolaptp.com/library/?cat=17 and it's the &qu...

stephenpatrick

Just FYI Orthogon Spectra uses 30MHz channels in 5.8GHz band and is legal in UK. I've just emailed a link to Uldis for the installation manuals which includes regulatory information including specific UK information. Note it refers to 2W EIRP which is now out-of-date, we have 4W according to the new...

stephenpatrick

A multi-radio MT setup will use up 160MHz of spectrum to do >100Mbps FDX, and need twin dual-polarised antennas, with some separation between them. It can be done. For high speed also consider Millimeter-Wave (60 or 70GHz) or Free Space Optics, either of which are ideal for 100Mbps FDX or 1000Mbps G...

stephenpatrick

<Blush>Thank you George that's very kind</Blush> You CAN do this in MT with high performance x86 hardware, and we build boxes that can do that all-in-one with up to 5 radio cards in a system. Each card can do 72-80Mbps throughput, and you can bond them together in various ways to give you the aggreg...

stephenpatrick

That sounds great
As I understand it we are allowed 40MHz channels in UK.
Not explicitly, but there's nothing saying you can't do it.

What about 5.4GHz ?

Regards

stephenpatrick

Chainsaw . Bzzzzzzzzzz .
Problem solved

Seriously, only low-freq signals <1GHz go through trees
Above that, major problem, no "hi tech" solution

Regards

stephenpatrick

Have a read here: a good summary of the 802.3af standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.3af "Two modes, A and B, are available. In mode A, pins 1-2 (pair #2 in T568B wiring) form one side of the 48 volt DC supply, and pins 3-6 (pair #3 in T568B) provide the 48 V return. These are the same two...

stephenpatrick

you are the only ones with such issues

Fair enough, sometimes the UK manages to be unique ...

Have replied off-forum on this topic.

stephenpatrick

Brilliant. Applause to that. Any idea on RF connectors? U.FL isn't anywhere near ideal. SMA's can be a bit big and foul on other other bits on various boards. There are plenty other "good" small connectors. Regarding XR/SR: AFAIK For a P2P link you are often way over the EIRP in many count...

stephenpatrick

we can't allow these bands as default, because people who have not paid should not be able to use them. Prompts a question: is the UK the only country with "soft licensing"? IMHO that is the cause of this debate. Also note, no other radio vendor takes the role of being the "police&qu...

stephenpatrick

Nice one, MIPLAND - well spotted. Glenn is a very respected author. Looks like the main outdoor improvement for 802.11n will be the MAC layer improvements. And, the one he doesn't mention, the "beam steering" possible with an antenna array, improving the signal at the client (fixed or mobi...

stephenpatrick

Very interesting debate! and some very good points there. 802.11n, AFAIK most of the performance gain is through MIMO, relying on reflected signals and signal processing to increase throughput. That works well indoors, because there's plenty of walls/ceilings/doors to make signals bounce around. I d...

stephenpatrick

cost for link p-t-p about 10-15k $ These days no-one is suggesting WiMax is the right solution for P2P links - even Moto openly says it isn't suitable. WiMax is for P2MP distribution, with some features you will never see on a non-WiMax current-generation Atheros/MT-type system - and vice-versa: Wi...

stephenpatrick

channel width from 1,75 to 14 mhz That's not the first time I've heard that one - some countries issuing freq licenses but stipulating the ETSI channel widths 1.75, 3.5, 7, 14MHz etc, which excludes systems built using "Atheros WiFi extension" gear using 5, 10, 20, 40MHz. All other argume...

stephenpatrick

Nice post, interesting gear. Certainly would be a solution, better than where we are now. IMHO: 1st preference: "use the onboard sensors": they're already on the motherboard, and linux software exists. 2nd preference: "add on dongle" like those. Plenty of 1-wire devices around. W...

stephenpatrick

Thanks for responding Normis, Here we are, will send to support also: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/powerlimits/power/ http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/tech/interface_req/uk_interface_2007.pdf http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/05/nr_20070531 and http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocom...

stephenpatrick

A subject my co. invested a lot of time and effort on - it's not trivial to solve. Any high speed x86CPU (read: >500MHz) generates significant heat. The rest of the chipset also produces some heat, but assuming "laptop chipsets" (most desktop ones run hotter, avoid them), it's the CPU heat...

stephenpatrick

"Yes Please" to updating UK wireless settings in ROS:

Latest OFCOM rulings
- 5.4GHz band now allocated
- Higher EIRP now on 5.8GHz

Any questions please ask-

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Great post Hebeda, thanks for that. Looks like 5GHz support on the Atheros 50008XSPAN range will be useful: from their website http://www.atheros.com/pt/AR5008Bulletins.htm "2.300 to 2.500 GHz and 4.9 to 5.925 GHz" and no doubt there will be miniPCI and miniPCIe cards out based on the refe...

stephenpatrick

In how much spectrum space? 20mhz? 40mhz? either The demo shown looks like the 802.11n demo is run in an indoor WLAN environment, with low gain omnis. Great stuff and am sure it'll be useful for hotspots etc. I guess in addition many people would really like to see some test results in outdoor P2P ...

stephenpatrick

Thanks very much for the response Normis.

So most likely it will work ... and I sense that "someone" might be us ...
will post up if/when have time and equipment to hand to do this.

Regards

stephenpatrick

**bump** ... anyone?
Would appreciate knowing the answer to this -

Regards

stephenpatrick

Interestingly, AFAIK a lot of commercial L3 routing switches use hardware switch fabric for L2 switching and then a CPU to do the L3 functions including routing, on the same platform. Examples of the silicon are Broadcom StrataXGS etc. and then a software routing stack is added to run on a CPU such ...

stephenpatrick

Are Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet controllers supported in
ROS 2.9.x ?
ROS 3.0 beta?
If so, any known issues?
If not - if/when supported?

I couldn't see them on the 2.9 driver list documentation.
http://www.intel.com/design/network/pro ... /82573.htm

Regards

stephenpatrick

When is the card shipping in samples / volume?

stephenpatrick

That is NICE. Does Waverider use Atheros chipsets too? I think the motivation to build this in can be summarised: - some installers too mean/poor to buy a proper test set - avoid climbing towers in poor weather or if tower-trained staff not present - avoid driving to site - remote diagnostic - alrea...

stephenpatrick

Does anyone know if those cards are shipping yet?

Asked UBNT but no response yet -

Would be great to know -

stephenpatrick

Perhaps not a helpful answer to the question but it's very true: As an MT OEM many end customers are putting out tenders that insist on MPLS as a "required feature" (rightly or wrongly) for service-provider type networks. We don't have control over that process, i.e. usually the tender is ...

stephenpatrick

Answering the question,

"the RB doesn't have a battery"
so if you want correct time, use NTP -

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

NSTREAM2 is not allowed in cause of no DFS. (maybe a feature for next ROS).

Have just added to V3 Feature requests - please vote for it!
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MikroTik_ ... e_Requests

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

The reality is "WiMax is here" and not going to vanish. It has major vendor, government (regulatory) momentum behind it. Whatever the technical limitations or arguments, it's here and won't vanish. WiMax will not "go away" The time for WiMax is 2007/8 and after that, there will b...

stephenpatrick

instead of ssh you should use API - more functionality and all kinds of benefits.

Noted! I will tell our developers here.

stephenpatrick

Isn't the obvious short-term solution to write the wizards using Visual Basic, compiled to .exe and running on a PC ? The VB could communicate using SSH or telnet to the box (we do this already with our own-brand RadioManager which gives deliberately-restricted access to our MT-based solutions) http...

stephenpatrick

Hi there This is MT's support forum, not mine - and MT don't like non-MT products discussed here, which is fair enough. That being said, those sorts of board don't compete against MT's current RB's so theres no competitive problem. Best drop me a line to: stephen <dot> patrick <at> cablefree <dot> c...

stephenpatrick

the EPIA is a good platform Actually, consensus on EPIA for MT with wireless is "oh no it's not". Have seen PCI bus lockups even on the latest Via V4 CPU boards from other vendors, latest RouterOS V3. We evaluate new boards/chipsets all the time. I think for wired routers there are plenty...

stephenpatrick

Suggest: Put a vote for it on the Wiki: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MikroTik_RouterOS/v3/Feature_Requests and encourage people to vote for it! Generally, there is a huge market for ADSL/wireless routers, namely domestic/home routers (market dominated by Netgear, Dlink etc). Not sure that's MT's ma...

stephenpatrick

It's very nice, but took several attempts till it ran to completion on a W2k machine in the office - several attempts made it crash i.e. program terminated.

So a couple of bug fixes and "yet another useful tool from MT" - well done.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

AFAIK, XR is not currently supported in RouterOS.
It's an Atheros-proprietary mode/feature.
If anyone knows better, please post here.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Log RSSI and SNR - much needed - vote for it as a V3 feature request on the WIKI -

Regards

stephenpatrick

Place your vote for ethernet port stats on the V3 Beta Request Wiki !

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MikroTik_ ... e_Requests

Regards

stephenpatrick

Those are all relevant points - cheap "CM9 clones" or worse would be a bad choice for a system expecting any precision. I'd assume that high quality cards, such as the latest Ubiquity ones would be used at the base stations. That being said, other GPS-sync'd systems like MOTO canopy aren't...

stephenpatrick

Nice one - Interestingly, according to the manual ftp://ftp.commell.com.tw/COMMELL/support/MP954GPS/Manual/MP-954GPS.pdf it appears as UARTs (read: COM ports) i.e. the miniPCI contains PCI<>UART then UART<>GPS. So the situation is similar to a serial GPS module regarding timing I guess. No Linux dri...

stephenpatrick

IMHO that needs looking at a little more closely: If this is implemented, a few sensible assumptions - use cards all from the same vendor/type - not a mix/match - airside settings on each radio are similar or the same (modulation rate) - radios are on a common PCI bus - variants of the PCI bus clock...

stephenpatrick

RB133C performance FYI - just got a pair in from MT to evaluate Environment - bench test - R52 radio cards, no antennas - BW test running *on* the routers (uses CPU power, sorry, didn't have time to set up the lab to run it *through* the routers) - 5GHz, Nstreme (polling, framer 3200, best fit), WDS...

stephenpatrick

A 1 sec GPS sync is fine. That's "GPS router clock sync", not "GPS wireless sync". As normis says, NTP = simplest/cheapest. IMHO the discussion on GPS wireless sync is the most interesting technically and the main thread "beta feature request" has some great comments s...

stephenpatrick

OK, I did 5 minutes more homework: http://www.embeddedstar.com/press/content/2002/4/embedded2741.html http://www.embeddedstar.com/press/content/2002/11/embedded5918.html and the vendor is ... http://www.trimble.com/tmg_acutime2k.shtml and a product/starter kit http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/...

stephenpatrick

Boro has that absolutely right - If you want a read-up, wikipedia isn't too bad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-input_multiple-output_communications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#802.11n It's also interesting to read up on the chipsets that are already coming out - http://www.atheros-x...

stephenpatrick

Thanks for pointing that out Normis, clearly 30 secs wasn't enough - I will have to do some more homework

I am sure there is a solution out there - just need to find it -

stephenpatrick

... adding a comment from a vendor rather than user angle ... We sell own-brand products based on RouterOS running on our own HW. Many end-customer tenders require MPLS as a feature: as in "required not optional". These tenders tend to be for telecom or government network roll-outs. I'm su...

stephenpatrick

AFAIK there are 2 areas where GPS sync useful - within base site: all sector antennas transmit at once - improves frequency reuse and avoids interference between antennas - between base sites: adjacent base sites sync so they transmit at the same time, again avoiding interference between them. GPS-s...

stephenpatrick

I think there are some solutions for this. Certainly it can be done, there are solutions out there commercially available, i.e. accurate sync of serial-attached GPS. I had a quick (30 sec) websearch: http://lists.ntp.isc.org/pipermail/questions/2006-January/008797.html http://www.brigsoft.com/atomic...

stephenpatrick

cheating is not tolerated

Can we have another Wiki to "name and shame" the cheats ...

stephenpatrick

Agree - and make sure you vote for it on the Wiki page -

stephenpatrick

Support for XR has been asked for before.
I'm going to put it in the "beta feature request" on the Wiki now.
Anyone who wants further range/reach from their towers but at lower data rates, please vote for it.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Great - will have to test this soon -

stephenpatrick

Mesh networking standard -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s

Any comments from MT or various users? i.e. "useful or not" ...

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

*) added support for more network cards based on RTL8169 chip;

does that include Realtek 8110SC?

Otherwise, a nice long list of improvements ... hope to try soon.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Nstreme **should** make P2MP more effective (users/BW per sector) BUT - ensure it's in a low-interference environment - use Routing not WDS/bridging There are quite a few experienced operators on the forum who have posted quite a bit on this topic. - Do you really think the 2.4GHz spectrum is "...

stephenpatrick

A print server? **if** RouterOS were being used in residential CPE / consumer devices, competing with the likes of Dlink, Netgear, etc then the following would be really desirable compared to products currently on the market: - Print Server (using USB port) - NAS (USB or SATA drives presented as ne...

stephenpatrick

What's your received signal levels?
Should not be higher than -40 and -60 is still a very good signal

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Actually, we tested them, and they will run fine with Nstreme, just not very fast - say 10Mbps on a P2P link. turn off Turbo mode, that's not necessary or a good idea - and uses up still more CPU power. Also in 2.4GHz you are likely to suffer interference in the 40MHz band. Use 20 or 10MHz channels....

stephenpatrick

Here's a suggestion for a future high-end Routerboard

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=738057

Looks just about perfect -

Regards

stephenpatrick

it is, but until now, we have not received any important feature requests. Well, we've contributed a few, and we sure hope they are on the MT roadmap: -IPV6 -Multicast support especially IPTV style deployments -SNMP V2, 3 -MPLS -Temperature and voltage monitoring on all platforms including x86 -Int...

stephenpatrick

About temp monitoring; I also think temp on x86 is not nearly as important as temp monitoring on the routerboard series. They are outside in remote locations with unstable environmental conditions and being able to monitor your equipment gives you better uptime in the long run. Ahem, not to quibble...

stephenpatrick

I saw info on those a short while back, very interesting. IMHO they are probably most suited to "base station" and P2P products, but haven't seen pricing yet, to see they would be fit in CPE models. Certainly the high TX power would help wide angle BS sectors particularly at 5GHz. "Ni...

stephenpatrick

Thanks Janisk, Thanks very much for the response. IMHO the current size of ROS isn't a problem on x86 - sure it might be when on an embedded routerboard with soldered-down flash - but the larger x86 boxes tend to run from compactflash or DOM where 256MB is not cost-prohibitive - and it's on those wh...

stephenpatrick

It would be good to be able to check CPU temprature and fan speed.

Ditto, several of our customers have asked for this, specifically on x86 hardware.
We have asked MT directly - AFAIK it's a matter of development priorities, so anyone else who wants this, best to ask now also.

Regards

stephenpatrick

DirectWireless, what you are proposing would be VERY clever if it works, and if you do, please do post some results. I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear more. I thought Nstreme2 only worked in P2P, but you are proposing doing this at the network layer. the "level of improvement" ov...

stephenpatrick

NStreme, WDS and VoIP in a low noise PtMP environment.

Is there a P2MP problem with Nstreme and WDS, especially with VOIP?
Anyone else experienced this?

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Interesting George - and provokes a good debate: Consider: "Mikrotik running on 3rd party hardware platforms" [Hey - we know a bit about that - that's what we do as an MT OEM] vs. "Mikrotik running on MT's own Routerboards" [what most readers on this forum are doing] AFAIK none o...

stephenpatrick

Nstreme and VOIP - or Nstreme and WDS and VOIP?
P2P or P2MP?
Low or high interference environment?

Would be interesting to hear more detail -

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Ahem - Some of this criticism isn't quite right. Not everyone needs "jury-rigged" hardware for high speed wireless links - that's not true or fair. Complete such products exist already today. Without any shameless plug, but to defend Mikrotik's business model - For example our co is a Mikr...

stephenpatrick

I don't think it's desirable either - Webbox should be kept simple, preferably for end users who should not be able to tweak or "break" to many thanks. Next question: can we have "branding" for web-box? Think it could be made as simple as a drop-in .GIF with logo of a predetermin...

stephenpatrick

Were you in any way close to CPU max ?
Nstreme uses up a lot of CPU% on slower boards.
If the CPU is anywhere near max, you would see some variation for sure.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

We've not had time to clear the lab and try the CSMA-disable yet in the new Beta, so can't contribute in terms of experience. But a general note, Nstreme does "packet reprocessing", putting data into "frames". In a high-noise environment, loss of a "frame" can affect mo...

stephenpatrick

Very interesting Martin - Thanks for your input. One note: mikrotik is not opensource or linux based Current MT 2.9 based on Linux 2.4, the new 3.0 is based on Linux 2.6 from what I was told. But correct, it is not open source. I think the cost of the SDK, lack of an opensource Wavesat driver, and i...

stephenpatrick

Wow!
400 MHz to over 40GHz!
Now I want that radio card ....

[seriously, that's really strange. An ROS/card compatibility, or is the card damaged?]

stephenpatrick

Any updates/comments from MT people on this please?

Would be greatly appreciated -

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

... actually just checking all the latest Atheros chipsets, including XSPAN (draft 802.11n) the maximum modulation rate seems to be 64QAM http://www.atheros.com/pt/AR50083NX.htm OFDM with BPSK, QPSK, 16 QAM, 64 QAM; DBPSK, DQPSK, CCK and the 5005VA seems the same. Checking 802.11n draft specs, seems...

stephenpatrick

Is there going to be support for SNMPV3 ?

[asked for by some major potential customers]

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Actually both product websites are **highly misleading**. In both cases they appear to be using standard Atheros chipset cards running in Turbo modes, 40MHz channels giving raw bit rates of 108Mbps using OFDM QAM64 mode. I don't understand the "QAM256" claim on airtegrity's website, that d...

stephenpatrick

Yes, I saw that: Netinstall sees it, but not RouterOS when running.

Hope they put it in Beta 6 -

stephenpatrick

"how good are the filters ?" is the question that springs to mind - the worst aspect would be self interference with the TX of one radio upsetting the RX of the other radio. Obviously the lower of the RX signal the more severe this problem would be. Guess you could try this in the lab and ...

stephenpatrick

Still no support in Beta5 - just tried today.

Please can we have support in the next one please?

Many thanks

Regards

stephenpatrick

Dear Brad, Thanks for the feedback on Radiowaves and Gabriel. We too got quotes for both, Gabriel is cheaper and much shorter quoted lead time. Are you using them for "full duplex" modes with Trango? Or just for "polarity hopping"? I ask the question because "full duplex&quo...

stephenpatrick

You are right the drivers were not in Beta 4. We have not had time to try Beta 5 yet.
This chipset is now widespread, and there ARE linux 2.6 drivers for it, so anyone who needs it keep up a (reasonable!) petition. Am sure MT will respond or just add it in and let us find it ...

Regards

stephenpatrick

Well, perhaps this should be another thread, and there's plenty form a search the archives from diverse apps/users, but from us: http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/pdf/PR%20200Mbps%20Radio%20Base%20Stations%20-%20Final.pdf is the P2MP test. Of course that's in the lab, and real-world performance is g...

stephenpatrick

That's probably the very best anyone has got from that platform. It can be really great as a CPE but P2P links are limited by the CPU. The basic rules are: - raw 802.11 (nstreme off) less CPU utilisation, but bad at max capacity and range due to ACK timing and small packet performance - Nstreme on m...

stephenpatrick

... asked for, no response yet, awaited ... yes please ...

stephenpatrick

60Mbps+ FDX But, only with one wireless card on each site? 2,4 or 5GHz? Turbo? Nstreme? 60Mbps+ FDX was 2 radio cards, Turbo, 5GHz band, Nstreme2 using our AMD 'NX'-powered outdoor-grade HPR boxes. It IS possible to go faster, there is a doc on our site showing 200Mbps bridged throughput P2MP with ...

stephenpatrick

Thanks for the reply!
Yes we've tested the MTI 23dBi dual-pol flat panel and it works great in the lab even at full speed 80Mbps HDX and 60Mbps+ FDX.
Not tested Gabriel, that sounds a good tip - thanks very much
Anyone else with good/bad/ugly experiences ?

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Why not put up your own tree :-) http://my.core.com/~lbutler/Tree1.JPG static.flickr.com/6/5449173_8cb6b06012_m.jpg http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/1103/0006644.jpg and some nice examples of concealed antennas and masts in this planning document http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2001/0...

stephenpatrick

Hi there, Any "happy" or otherwise reports for which dual-polar 5.xGHz antennas to specify? Customers want 12-18km links, 50Mbps+ FDX. Would appreciate comments from other users - have heard mixed reports on various brands. Would be nice to generate a really useful list - Regards CableFree...

stephenpatrick

... copper nails ...

[honestly never done it, but gather it works -]

stephenpatrick

Oops looks like I was commenting somewhat ignorantly !
... thanks for educating me people ...
but ways of spotting other types of scans does sound useful.
I'll watch this thread with interest -

stephenpatrick

I'm not an expert on this topic but: At home I have a Netgear ADSL router. On one config page it has a couple of check-boxes for "DOS prevention" and "port-scan-detect". i.e. if nasty people out on the net are trying to break in or take down the network by DOS, it takes some acti...

stephenpatrick

AFAIK
XR (Extended Range) is a real feature of the chipset.
It allows the radio to receive at lower levels than normal WiFi, probably compromising PER to do it.

XR support has been asked for before - [on:off]

Would be nice if there's a response on that.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Wireless is unrealistic for gigabit speeds.

.. Laser (FSO) or Millimeter Wave (MMW) can do 1.25Gbps FDX ...
at a much lower cost than fibre.

Still, I'm really looking forward to see what the 802.11n can do using MT.
Keep up the good work -

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

... well, it's nice to be anticipated .... ;-) Low power and high performance is a real issue for all compute platforms. To get non-CPU-constrained wireless performance on current RouterOS you need high speed x86 platforms. AFAIK that's because the "software defined radio" of latest chipse...

stephenpatrick

Just FWIW, PCI performance depends on what PCI you are comparing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_bus Regular PCI has 33MHz clock, and is 32 bits wide. PCI 2.2 doubles that. In practice we have found you can get about 750Mbps through a PCI-based Gigabit NIC one way - bus, not CPU limiting. It depen...

stephenpatrick

AFAIK you could connect it to handshaking pins on the serial port (simple level conversion probably needed) and use a script to report the value (1:0)

Regards

stephenpatrick

.. just a few more cents ... GPS-sync is a standard feature in many types of wireless base stations - for example, GSM base stations, and some "other" WISP systems. There are a couple of major reasons AFAIK: - synchronise radios within the base station, so they only TX at the same time: mi...

stephenpatrick

Suggest you post the make and model of injectors for comment:

There are good and bad ones -

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

Interesting discussion: Generally, you should always have some sort of antenna connected, otherwise the radio "sees" an open-circuit, where it should have a 50 ohm impedance load. open circuit means power reflected back into the radio, which potentially cause damage (on very high power rad...

stephenpatrick

Just noticed today, No support yet for RTL8111B Gigabit Ethernet chipset in Beta 3 "Realtek RTL8111B PCI-E Gigabit LAN " Please can we have this added? Would be great. Drivers for Linux2.4 and 2.6 are here: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=13&PFi...

stephenpatrick

This should be possible with ROS and high speed hardware. We demonstrated this: http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/pdf/PR%20200Mbps%20Radio%20Base%20Stations%20-%20Final.pdf with standard shipping outdoor-grade passively-cooled 1GHz AMD 'NX' powered MT-based routers. That was P2MP, but with Nstreme2,...

stephenpatrick

Well, I never got **asked to appear** before ... But thank you anyway - High speed MT-based outdoor-grade waterproof x86 router platforms are something we spent a lot of time perfecting - now well-established solutions with 1GHz AMD 'NX' CPU a preferred option. Best to contact me off-forum, as this ...

stephenpatrick

No, there is no such option in Dual Nstreme. But depending on routing/bridging requirements of the network, I reckon some pretty smart scripts could be written to do this. Re-config the radios into single-radio Nstreme master/slave ignoring the second radio card. Possibly using "loss of connec...

stephenpatrick

IMHO the problem is the antenna gain, not the output power.
You can go 20km+ easily with an R52 or CM9, but using higher gain antennas than the 22dBi in that product.
Suggestion: buy an outdoor grade RB and high gain antennas.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

stephenpatrick

There was an excellent post by Patrick Leary of Alvarion on WISPA http://mail.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2006-June/026231.html including "the 802.16 MAC is poorly suited as written for unlicensed bands since it assumes no competition for the air and has no mechanism for battling interference&...

stephenpatrick

That's a neat workaround. Another solution would be to put a comparitor IC and level shifter on an RS232 port - a pretty simple circuit. Then use MT's "serial port monitor" to give you an indication. http://www.mikrotik.com/docs/ros/2.9/tools/sigwatch If you were being really clever, a mor...

stephenpatrick

I have just answered my own question. "IEEE 802.11F was a Trial Use Recommended Practice. The IEEE 802 Executive Committee approved its withdrawal on November 18, 2005." i.e. it's no longer a supported standard - the problem being "The handover delay is too long to support application...

stephenpatrick

WiMAX is designed and optimised for licensed bands, with an "operator model" i.e. those prepared to buy licenses and roll networks nationwide. The MAC can't cope with interference, as there isn't expected to be any. WiMAX has "fixed" (=d) and "mobile" (=e) variants. Mos...

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