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Ghassan
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HOTSPOT WIFI coverage

Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:05 am

Hello All,

I am searching or asking for HOTSPOT Coverage ..

what should I install antennas or equipments to make hotspot covers from 2kilo meters up to 10 kilo meters with Non Line Of Site (NLS)

I heard that DigitalSkys has recently launched and implemented its first series of towers, that will see the company lead the way in terms of hot spot WiFi coverage. Using the latest technology on both WiFi 802.11b & g platforms, DigitalSkys has now the unique ability to deliver coverage up to 10 km radius non line of sight (NLS).


Is there any solution for us ?

Thank you .

Regards,
Ghassan
 
vk7zms
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Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:29 pm

10Km NLOS using the WiFi 802.11.a,b or g is not possible
 
Ghassan
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Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:08 pm

what should I install antennas or equipments to make hotspot covers from 2kilo meters up to 10 kilo meters with Only Line OF Site ?

and what should I use router board or can I use 400mW to cover all that ?


Please help me .
 
vk7zms
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Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:52 am

If by "hotspot" you intend to have clients connecting directly from thier laptops, you simply won't. It won't matter how powerful your base station is, the aerial gain of the onboard WiFi aerials in laptops simply will not be able to get back to the base station. Having said that we have had resonable success using SR2 cards - but no where near 10Km.
 
Ghassan
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Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:51 pm

Can you give me URL of SR2 so I can buy it or a snapshot of it and should I use 400mW Cards to cover powerful places .. how many Kilo Meters can I guarantee ... What should I install antennas ?

Thank you
 
pedja
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Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:15 am

Asking for node to cover more than 2 km is asking for trouble.
 
cmacneill
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Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:56 pm

If the client side is a standard Laptop or 100mW PCI card with 2dB antenna, you'll be lucky to get more than 400m.

I have used some Senao 200mW PCMCIA cards which have external antenna sockets. I added a 5dB antenna and this will reach around 2.5Km.

The 5dB antenna came as a kit with a mounting that sticks to the lid of the Laptop.

These can be obtained from http://www.solwise.co.uk
 
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nest
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Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:49 pm

Ghassan

You've not stated who / what your intended client equipment is going to be for this 10Km requirement. If it's laptops/PDAs and the like, then I would plan out a system that sees a hotspot every few hundred metres!

Increasing the transmit power of the hotspot will not help it hear the reply from the laptop. You can run 100Watts on the hotspot and still the laptop will not be heard.

If on the other hand you are trying to roll out a hotspot system where the client has an aerial on the roof of their premises, then you can achieve MUCH longer link lengths with LOS path. Using ODFM systems (such as 802.11g) does allow for some NLOS connections. But IMHO I would not depend on it as part of your business plan! Look at it as a bonus that if 802.11g gets you a connection when 802.11b does not, fine. But don't rely completely on it as part of your "sales talk" that you can provide 100% coverage in your area because your hotspot can "see around corners" when others cannot.

FWIW - We only use 802.11b on our hotspots.
 
Ghassan
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Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:56 pm

Hello All,

Thank you for your help .

At least I want to cover 1 km so If I put like 2 sectors with 180 degrees or to put OMNI directional antenna and what should I use .. which router board ?

My clients are standard Laptops .

and what do you mean by IMHO ?
 
cmacneill
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Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:06 pm

IMHO = In my humble opinion
FWIW = For what it's worth

Most people go with Omnis (360), 120, 90 or 60 degree sectors. The most common is Omni using one channel or 120 degree using three channels. Even though channels 1-11 exist, they overlap, only three channels do not overlap 1, 6 & 11.

As several posters have told you, it's very unlikely that you will get standard Laptops to work at a distance of 1Km.

As to which RouterBoard it depends how many sectors you want to support. R112 = two radios, R133 & 153 = 3 radios, 532 = 2 radios or 4 with 502 daughter board. The 1xx RouterBoards have slower CPU than 5xx, therefore 5xx will support higher maximum bandwidth.



Regards

Chris Macneill
 
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nest
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Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:39 am

From http://www.5gwireless.com/press_rel_digitalskys.htm ....

"5G Wireless uses its new cellular-style Wi-Fi base stations to create a broad service area with non-line-of-sight (NLOS) capabilities. These enhancements are compatible with standard IEEE 802.11b/g Wi-Fi equipment. The 5G Wi-Fi Hotzones(TM) function through macro-cell base stations deployed from tall towers and the tops of tall buildings, while dead spots are filled in with smaller micro cells following the proven deployment strategy used today by the cellular carriers."

Which means that they are not saying they can get 10km range from one base station, but from using one main base station and many smaller base stations.

So - to be honest.. that's not all that special or new.

Unless you know they are doing something different from the press release?

You will struggle to cover 1km with just the one base station connecting to laptops unless you use multiple base stations - perhaps with WDS. Something Mikrotik can do easily at very little cost ;-)

Again, choosing between sector'ed aerials or omni's is not just about range.

When putting in hotspots (for genuine commercial profit), you either have to find one person who is skilled in mechanics, radio, electronics, networking, servers and websites (to find one person who can do all that is rare) or more likely a team of people. Oh, and someone who's not afraid of working (safely of course) at heights! :lol:

All this costs money and skill. The number of WISPs that I've seen go broke - all because they think it's really easy to make a fortune from this game and it simply isn't.

As I often say, "If this business was that easy - anyone could do it"!

So, if you want to install a Mikrotik based wireless hotspot in your area, sure, go for it, but I strongly urge you to find your nearest Mikrotik Consultant and speak with them first before spending too much money. Although looking at the list, there does not appear to be anyone that close to you. :-(

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
Ron.
 
Ghassan
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Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:40 am

Thank you and I appreciate your help but when it comes to networking , I think i can handle that ... but my questions were discussed for a great coverage at HOTSPOT WIRELESS using WIFI or have a discussion about what is more important which gives a reliable connections by wireless using hotspot so that was my real question is what should I install antennas but finally I discovered that if i installed 2 sectors 90 degrees , it may cover my areas , by the way all my work is on antennas because I build sectors , antenna clients 18db .

My latest work is on horizontal polarization antenna with 8 Quads and coverage angle of 70 deg . I will test it later ( 17.6db ) also my installation is for hotspot which i needed .. about 1 Kilo Meters maximum ..

My real question was for NLOS and I am sure that 5Ghz is better than 2.4Ghz for connections with NLOS .

But maybe all are suffering from interference ...
It is interesting to note that some stations in other countries have started going to higher power due to the background noise raising on 2.4GHz (wireless LAN).

I suggest that data transceivers use vertical antenna to help prevent interference; with any luck commercial users will follow our lead. In this way all users will be more able to share the limited frequency resource.

Some of the new antennas that are being used for data are horizontally polarized, these are ok if not used in a prime location but are more likely to pick up unwanted signals.

I am interested to learn more about NLOS by WiMax/WiFi or any Radio Frequency so if anyone has a link so I can get more practice on it , I'll be glad for your help.

Well , now I can thank you all for your valuable discussion :P

Kind Regards,
Ghassan
 
Ghassan
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Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:16 am

Another question please .

any ideas please ..

let us consider that I have one sector to cover 180 degrees , right ?

and forget hotspot right now .. How can we cover about 10 Km using WiFi , any our clients maybe access points , not laptops ...


So if my sector has gain 18db and its degrees 180 .. and of course using Mikrotik Router Boards ,.. what should I need power to cover 10 Km and what wireless cards .. maybe every client can be setup using patch client 18db .

can i guarantee using this settings to cover 10 Km ?
 
pedja
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Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:49 pm

As said, if your clients use internal anntenas and have no optical visibility to node, yuo cannot expet more than 100m, just less.

If your clients have outdoor directional antennas 2km is reachable. Of course you can get even more but you can always expect problems with node with such clients.

You can get acceptable 10 km link only if you use highly directional antennas on both ends of the link, precisely adjusted.

Seeking for more power just means more problems. Power is not an issue.
 
Ghassan
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Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:13 pm

so you mean that if I have one sector with 180 degrees - 18db ( ap station ) . any configured clients using a directional antenna 18db will get at least 7 km LOS , right ?

our isp has tested 10km LOS by WiMax ..

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