Why do you remove 411UAHR RB model with COM port?

delphi · Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:59 pm

So, dear Mikrotik. It seems that you do many things without any feedback from users. I present a small company from Moscow. All our infrastructure is based on modules in boxes with 411 RB inside. We use COM port for initial and next tuning the board. Our technical engineers haven't possibility to connect to network using Ethernet cable. Only COM ports are in the face part of our product. It is very comfortable and reliable. Also we don't disconnect the link during these operations. Also our terminals are connected with RB also through COM port and make tuning using our software and central upgrade.

So, why you removed the COM ports in the new models. Our next work is impossible now because you removed the main model we use 411UAHR. Also I have heard about plans to reduce all 411 models. I insist on new 912 model with COM port. Also we need to use new miniPCIe wifi modules on new boards with COM port. Now our current work stops because of lack 411UAHR. We use it in our boxes with installing to products. Also we have problems with 411U delivery to Russia. There are no one here.

If so weird product management will resume, I will replace all Mikrotiks boards and choose another vendor.
Please, don't ask me about why not using another analogs of 411. Because the 411UAHR model has unique number of interfaces. We added to them second WiFi or 3G module and we need it in one small from factor.

In order to plan our dealing in future I wnt to know lifetimes:

411AR
411U

And I want to know when you release new boards with COM ports.

rextended · Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:43 pm

You do not see this?

http://routerboard.com/RB953GS-5HnT

honzam · Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:00 pm

You do not see this? http://routerboard.com/RB953GS-5HnT

He wrote:

we need it in one small from factor.

Rb953 have form factor as rb433

rextended · Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:47 pm

AAAAAAhhh... miss it

delphi · Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:08 pm

I want to hear the Mikrotik manager opinion. We need in small from factor new analogs of 411 models.

honzam · Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:13 pm

I think - new models are rb921x with gigabit ethernet + sfp + 802.11ac + miniPCIe.
But no COM port.

rb411x and 711x - EOL products
rb911, rb912 - actual product without COM
rb921, rb922 - future product without COM

see news http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 16#p435475

janisk · Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:59 am

maybe you can use USB to serial dongle and get that com port in that way?

rextended · Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:22 pm

maybe you can use USB to serial dongle and get that com port in that way?

Nooooooooo

is possible to do that??????????

I never stop learn form RouterOS...

janisk · Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:54 pm

/

Nooooooooo is possible to do that??????????

any generic Prolific usb-to-serial will work.

in '/system console' attach terminal or use USB port for /system serial-terminal.

ros code

sy serial-terminal usb3

or

ros code

[admin@OriginF] > sy console print 
Flags: X - disabled, U - used, F - free 
 #   PORT                                                           TERM                                                         
 0 X serial0                                                        vt102                                                        
 1 X usb3                                                           vt102

delphi · Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:35 pm

NO! Nobody don't use prolific or even ftdi usb-RS232 in terminals. It is not reliable. I am not an Arduino guy. Don't write here idiotic advices. The terminal has its own computer with only COM port available for tuning routers. All other ports included USB are busy. Are you engineers from Mikrotik or the piece of shit? Dear Mikrotik's people. Do you really think that the company will replace the reliable RS-232 connection? No. We will faster make a concurent product to Mikrotik based on open-WRT or DD-WRT than endure the inconvenience from idiotic Mikrotik product managers. You must bear responsibility for your own products. If you do form factor you must resume the product line with new one at the same functional features.

delphi · Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:42 pm

It is very important to know that date of disappearing RB411AR and RB411U models. I want to know that.

joegoldman · Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:58 pm

Deplhi, I think you just lost any chance of a decent response from Mikrotik here. With an attitude like that I'd be happy to see you gone from these USER forums. That's right, these forums are not for you to contact Mikrotik, it is simply for users of Mikrotik to discuss with each other. Any help we get from company reps is appreciated and respected. If you want to discuss things with them then email them, but I wouldn't expect a response if you sit there calling them pieces of shit.

rextended · Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:18 pm

NO! Nobody don't use prolific or even ftdi usb-RS232 in terminals. It is not reliable. I am not an Arduino guy. Don't write here idiotic advices. The terminal has its own computer with only COM port available for tuning routers. All other ports included USB are busy. Are you engineers from Mikrotik or the piece of **it? Dear Mikrotik's people. Do you really think that the company will replace the reliable RS-232 connection? No. We will faster make a concurent product to Mikrotik based on open-WRT or DD-WRT than endure the inconvenience from idiotic Mikrotik product managers. You must bear responsibility for your own products. If you do form factor you must resume the product line with new one at the same functional features.

-5: грубый

If his company do not support changes, is destined to fail.
This user act like all his business is focused on a single product.

Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:56 pm

The terminal has its own computer with only COM port available

The idea is to use COM cable, I think you musunderstood the suggestion.

Suggestion is to plug a USB->COM adapter in your router, so that router has a COM port. Your terminal PC doesn't need USB for this

rextended · Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:05 pm

The terminal has its own computer with only COM port available
The idea is to use COM cable, I think you musunderstood the suggestion.

Suggestion is to plug a USB->COM adapter in your router, so that router has a COM port. Your terminal PC doesn't need USB for this

The description of janisk is perfect, also the example...

I think the user misunderstood also the education...

delphi · Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:18 pm

If we plug the usb-RS232 cable than the new component will be between router and computer. I told about the reliable connection. It will be less reliable in that case. We have worked a lot of time with FTDI, prolific, CP2102 - the famous generic as you wrote. But in case of terminals or maybe mobile robots the meaning of reliable is extreme. So if you reduce the functional feature you must think about the loss % of market. I think your product managers are the peace of shit, because making a small decision you can loss the real market, very potential to rise. And we spent many time to wrote really good software for router tuning. Have you know any applications of using Mikrotiks in vehicle industry? In Russia we used it. Do you want to save these applications? If yes, you must asked consumers about next generations of products. Is it so hard or expensive to save DB-9 port on RB motherboards? I have embedded engineers staff and I know that it is not expensive and hard. So, well. I understand. The future of Mikrotiks is USB-UART cables. I don't go with Mikrotik to the future. My company makes also robots here in Russia. And I prefer supplier that make a connections between it and consumer in the case what we must do for you. Today I speak with CEO of official Mikrotik supplier. He thinks that the company Mikrotik lives in the world of your own fantasy and don't have much connections with real people.

Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:26 pm

Putting a RS232 on the board would be also one extra part that is not there right now

delphi · Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:16 pm

I think you understand the spec of this 1 part. For example:
1. Generic RS-232. Above 9 volts level polar signal. Stable for impact noise. Till 25 meters long cable. Very reliable connection socket (using screws)
2. USB-UART cable. 5v TTL. Not polar, but differential. Not stable for impact noise. Very unreliable connection socket to USB. Bad quality due to China fake chips.
So. Let's talk about future. Would you have a less reliable Mikrotik systems? I wouldn't.

I think there are some companies making a software for Mikrotiks. We are one of them. There are:
- decade of RouterOS language scripts
- couple of Pythons scripts making a call using serial interfaces

You have made a router API. Why did you make it not the same as Router OS Script language? Why the way of using Router OS Script can't be realized using the Ethernet connection? How can we do a router tuning if some of parametes losses during the work (Yea, did you hear about bricked Mikrotiks? In one day there is no answer from network, let's go to the place of installing, plug in the Com port and make connection again). So we developed a reliable way of using Mikrotiks. We developed boxes for 411 models. And we developed products based on it. But to do that we need an reliable additional connection way. You reduced this way from your products and I hate you because we spent a lot of time to make the peace of hardware from Latvia real working and reliable.

RogerWilco · Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:54 am

2. USB-UART cable. 5v TTL. Not polar, but differential. Not stable for impact noise. Very unreliable connection socket to USB. Bad quality due to China fake chips.

Don't buy a Chinese made cable? Buy from a reputable company? Seems pretty straight-forward with that issue.

docmarius · Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:02 am

...
We developed boxes for 411 models. And we developed products based on it.
...

Usually when a company develops products based on another companies product, they make (written) arrangements to ensure the availability of that product for the expected lifetime of the first one. You obviously omitted that step. So don't blame the people at Mikrotik for the lack of business skills on your side.
And if these whining is a replacement for business development talk between your companies, I'm not sure if this is still called business. The age of highly successful garage companies is long over.

janisk · Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:09 am

there are still some RB411 in stock at our resellers. Order from them while they are in stock. Of course we do not know how many per week or per month you need.

delphi · Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:05 pm

The arrangments are usually signed between regional supplier and company. We have called every Mikrotik official supplier here in Russia. Also we had a meet between the biggest one here in Russia and me. He told me that 411 models will be under production and stock many time after (it was at the beginning of 14th year). I asked this question to another ones and every company asked anything is OK with them. So what do you think about this strange situation? Some months after one of them talked me that Mikrotik do many decisions without any public attention before. So the product can disappeared in anytime without proper mail or call attention. Who will learn to make a buisness? I don't see any Mikrotik manager here. Our official supplier also don't know any road map of Mikrotik products in near future. I think that in the public case the Mikrotik is real garage company without strong connection with people.

rextended · Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:18 pm

You must have one arrangment signed between your company and directly Mikrotik company.

The supplier can not do any promise. Is obviously only a supplier,

and again, think about Microsoft, do not have any arrangment with Intel to still produce 80386...

If your company life depend only by RB411, MikroTik can still produice RB411 and sell it $1000 eachone...

delphi · Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:28 pm

Who are you guy? Maybe you should become a member of Mikrotik team to say so many words about how Mikrotik must sell?
If you so stupid just think about why:
- Apple produce new products with extended functionality but with old one too. And the same form factor.
- Why motherboards have the standard form factor, ports placing and other features
- Why 386 processor was under mass production and supporting (for example in Linux) til 2014 year?
- Why Intel makes the embedded Wi-Fi and Bluetooth models in only 2 wide known form factors for about 12 years?
- Why Freescale company made a strong ARM IMX.6 processor and decide to produce it til 2024?
You should think about it then answer for these questions and than you will understand the our position - we integrate the parts of another supplier and think about that supplier have a vision of that. Mikrotik don't have.

rextended · Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:33 pm

...If you so stupid...

-5: остановить обидно

Are you good at insult.

I do not want play with your stupid game.

By.

honzam · Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:09 pm

Who

Only 10post and -10 karma

You should start talking politely. On your curses Nobody will respond
http://forum.mikrotik.com/faq.php#f0r3

docmarius · Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:44 pm

Now let's see about that being stupid part...
- Apple produce new products with extended functionality but with old one too. And the same form factor.
Apple does not produce 14 year old models anymore. Not to speak about form factors... There is a big difference between a G350 and an iMac. They even use different processor families (PPC vs. Intel) and a totally different architecture.

- Why motherboards have the standard form factor, ports placing and other features
Because they are standardized so they can fit in any ATX case, use the same operating systems and sell them in millions of pieces. And the port placement is not standard. That's why you get your little shiny metal sheet with holes for each type of motherboard (btw, computers usually don't come with COM ports anymore...).

- Why 386 processor was under mass production and supporting (for example in Linux) til 2014 year?
Because (a) someone had a big order going on, talking about millions of pieces/year and (b) the 386 instruction set works an almost all modern processors, so it is easier to write code for it.
FYI: Intel stopped producing the 386 in 2007.

- Why Intel makes the embedded Wi-Fi and Bluetooth models in only 2 wide known form factors for about 12 years?
Again because there is a consortium which standardized that forms, to be able to sell them to millions of customers per year for a lot of devices.

- Why Freescale company made a strong ARM IMX.6 processor and decide to produce it til 2024?
That's the architecture only. Like Intel x86 and PowerPC. But anyway, they sell them many millions of pieces/year.
And the i.MX 6 series was launched in 2011. 5 years is a normal life span for an embedded processor. Try buying today an i.MX1 from Freescale and see if you can get one...

And now the other side of the game and the MILLIONS part:
If you could absorb at least a couple of tens of thousands, not millions, of 411s a year, be rest assured Mikrotik would still produce them specially for you.
A production line is expensive to set up and to use and produces in the order of maybe 1000 devices/day, so the production goes in batches. If the demand is less than a certain number, you better use that line for something else and don't set it up at all, because you will block your production resources and build up stocks instead of making money. Keep in mind that it is sometimes cheaper to throw products away than to store them...
So since the demand was low and other products selled better, they just stopped it. It brings more money NOT to produce them. A few hundred devices a year are worthless to produce unless you get a fantastic price for them.
Even if it sounds harsh, it is economics: unless one can make a decent profit, no one gives a damn about a small company in a foreign country which is insignificant as a customer.

rextended · Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:58 am

+2: I never see better reply...

spanky · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:38 pm

Ending a product line is completely understandable. I think the issue, and where the frustration above is coming from, is the decision to EOL the product without ample notice (or as far as I can tell, without any notice at all). For those of us that have integrated the 411UAHR into a finished product, we are left scrambling to find a replacement. This scenario could have easily been avoided by a public notice and final order date, which is how manufacturers typically handle product EOL. That would have given everyone the opportunity to order an ample supply, while alternative products were evaluated. Since Mikrotik apparently did not give notice of this products EOL, the supply chain has dried up and there are a lot of surprised and disappointed folks out there (myself included). From a financial perspective, I understand that this is an effective way to flush the product out of the supply chain. From a business and reputation perspective, I'd have to say this is poor form. I may only do a hundred or so RB411UAHR's a year, but I don't think its too much to ask to be notified (even if its just on the product page) of the expected EOL date before it is already EOL'd and out of the supply chain.

The RB912 looks like a very viable replacement, but the lack of a COM port is a bit of a deal breaker. I think we should focus our efforts on getting Mikrotik to improve the 912 (by adding an integral COM port). It looks like the processor supports a UART, but they just haven't ran the necessary traces and connectors (please correct me if I'm wrong there).

rextended · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:52 pm

..It looks like the processor supports a UART, but they just haven't ran the necessary traces and connectors (please correct me if I'm wrong there)...

Yes, is true for some models.

docmarius · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:55 pm

Spanky, you are absolutely right. Proper announcing EOL for a product is the decent thing to do.

rextended · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:03 pm

I never need any EOL form mikrotik for my work, because everytime new products fit better my needs,
but really, this is one precious information for all of us...

Etz · Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:40 pm

Well they could always include EOL and replacement announcements into their newsletter,
the very same manner as they usually annonce new models and improvements on existing ones...

rextended · Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:42 pm

Well they could always include EOL and replacement announcements into their newsletter,
the very same manner as they usually annonce new models and improvements on existing ones...

Probably I not read that because I'm focused on new product...

I do not use RB133C3 anymore....

ofca · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:14 am

Guys, Mikrotik made leaps in quality and product line innovation during last few years. This is a company that for all purposes and intents didn't exist on industry map 5 years ago. Asking for EOL announcements is proper criticism. Blaming Mikrotik for your own shortsightedness is well, stupid. Hopefully both sides will learn something from this

Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:49 pm

MikroTik does announce EOL of a product to the distributors, within reasonable time before.

Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:35 pm

Hello everybody,

We are planning to make one more batch of RB411UAHR, if you are interested, contact your distributor, and let them know. We are taking orders from them now, so it would help if they would know how many you need

poizzon · Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:39 am

Hello

Looking board that supports serial port and MiniPCI for 3g/4g LTE modem

What options would you suggest?

honzam · Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:20 am

Looking board that supports serial port and MiniPCI for 3g/4g LTE modem
What options would you suggest?

Do you think miniPCIe? If yes, for example http://routerboard.com/RB953GS-5HnT-RP
and others...

poizzon · Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:33 am

Sorry, yes - miniPCIe.

RB953GS - unfortunately is too expensive

we do not need wifi or SFP...

COM port is for GPS, maybe it can be done via 3g/4g modem - some channel ?

Looking board that supports serial port and MiniPCI for 3g/4g LTE modem
What options would you suggest?
Do you think miniPCIe? If yes, for example http://routerboard.com/RB953GS-5HnT-RP
and others...

honzam · Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:05 pm

Than maybe http://routerboard.com/RB411U
or http://routerboard.com/RB912UAG-2HPnD
with minipcie LTE card (with build in GPS)

poizzon · Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:16 pm

can't find where to buy RB411U
it is not end of life ?

i like'd RB912UAG, but which 4g modem to choose ?

Than maybe http://routerboard.com/RB411U
or http://routerboard.com/RB912UAG-2HPnD
with minipcie LTE card (with build in GPS)

honzam · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:07 pm

i like'd RB912UAG, but which 4g modem to choose ?

I use this: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/solutions ... cie-en.htm

poizzon · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:18 am

another question - is ability to send GPS data like virtual COM port ?

if router board has COM port we can connect directly to COM with some applicationa serial port via ethernet, and data are going.

but if we try use miniPCIe modem, it will be posible ?

i like'd RB912UAG, but which 4g modem to choose ?
I use this: http://consumer.huawei.com/en/solutions ... cie-en.htm

poizzon · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:23 am

tested RB450, with external serial GPS antena - working very nice.

but what about data directly from miniPCIe modem with GPS ?

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Serial_Po ... 7_COM_port

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