Good day,

I have a question.

I use mainly Basebox5's for our sector antennas and I have noticed that if there is about 20 clients connected the speed never goes above 12Mbps in total for all those clients, all within 10km range

Signals is between -40 and -70

Using 5Ghz a/n on NV2 with 5ms TDMA Period Size.

If I kick of 10 of those cpe's then is goes above the 12Mbps limit.

Anything funny I am doing wrong or any possible solution to get more speed without going to 40Mhz?

I would like to add,

This has been happening on all my sectors, adding new ones isn't a option since there is no spectrum available.

Space one the high sites is also running out

Damm,

Looks like I am the only one with this issue?

Try to lower TDMA period size to default value of 2ms.

Regards,
M.

Hi,

The only thing that happens when I lower the tdma is less throughput per client.

For instance the client with the best signal of -55 would get about 5Mbps with 5ms tdma and about 3.5 with 2ms.

If you disconnect all clients but one then 30Mbps +

Hello,
AP side works as ap-bridge and clients as a station or station-bridge or you're using some
other mode (wds, pseudo-bridge....) ?

Second question, which software version is at APs and at client side (stations)?

Also, which wireless package is active?

There must be something with either software version or your specific setup,
hardware is capable of more than that.

Regards,
M.

p.s. Did you test this with or without active queues?
It would be easier to get the rigth answer with more details about your setup.

Hi,

Ap side is ap-bridge and cpe is station.

Software is usually the latest available one, 6.35.2

Still using wireless fp, have tested with wireless cm2(didn't make a differance)

No active queues.

I'm starting to think that the issue might be 5ghz-a/n on the ap and the cpe or something to do with the slowest cpe connected.

I see this behavior with almost all the sectors, so someware I'm goofing.

Haven't tested using 5ghz only N yet.

Hi,
Client with the lowest signal level quality will always have the biggest degradation potential on throughput of the ap-bridge.
If you have just one client with low modulations/CCQ and he/she starts to download all other clients with good signals (at the same AP) will experience much worse throughput than usual.

I would pick one AP (sector) with 20 or so clients with good signals (let say better than -60dBm) and with just a couple of clients with bad signal levels.
Then I would try to compare throughput of the AP with and without just those clients with bad signal levels.
Take a good look at registration table, modulation rates and CCQ, that information is usually enough to spot "bad clients" even if they have good signal levels (in dBms).

Regards,
M.

Thank you.

I hope ROS v7 will have some kind of way so that the bad clients doesn't affect the good ones throughput.

Question is ap-bridge the best option to use in a ptpm situation?

Ap bridge used to work just fine, but as clients are asking more and more bandwidth we are add more and more sectors.

If I can get about 10M more out of a sector I would help a lot

Try to lower TDMA period size to default value of 2ms.

Regards,
M.

TDMA period size of 2ms is totally correct - it works
Also - what I have found helps throughput is to also do the following:
Set "Hw Retries" on clients and APs to --> 3 (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)
Set your "Cell Radius" to about 20 percent larger than your registration table shows for distance
Avoid mixed modes !  If you have b/g then pick G-Only, If you have A/N - then pick N-Only,  If you have A/N/AC then pick AC only (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)
I have tweaked and tweaked for years and this gives me the highest throughput for multi and ptp connections.
- EDIT - also use the CM2 package or the new wireless-rep package !!!!!!!!!! (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)

Try to lower TDMA period size to default value of 2ms.

Regards,
M.

TDMA period size of 2ms is totally correct - it works
Also - what I have found helps throughput is to also do the following:
Set "Hw Retries" on clients and APs to --> 3 (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)
Set your "Cell Radius" to about 20 percent larger than your registration table shows for distance
Avoid mixed modes !  If you have b/g then pick G-Only, If you have A/N - then pick N-Only,  If you have A/N/AC then pick AC only (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)
I have tweaked and tweaked for years and this gives me the highest throughput for multi and ptp connections.
- EDIT - also use the CM2 package or the new wireless-rep package !!!!!!!!!! (edit - do this on APs and also all clients)

Is HW Retries used with NV2? I thought not.

YES it is used and it does effect throughput
wireless - advanced

@ p3rad0x
How sure you are that this is the limit on radio and not somewhere else in your network?
It is very unlikely that you have the same problem on all APs in whole network.
What results do you get with old nstreme protocol?

Regards,
M.

I have 50+ nv2 AP.
I have tested and tested and tested throughput on M-PTP and PTP (clients, APs & wds links) using btest (both udp and tcp).
Every time a newer Mikrotik firmware/update is release, I also always pre-test prior to updating my production units.
In total - I have about 1,000 microwave links.  And I test almost all of them at one time or another - looking/checking/testing what can I do to improve the throughput to my 5 GHz NV2 client connected customers.

@ p3rad0x
How sure you are that this is the limit on radio and not somewhere else in your network?
It is very unlikely that you have the same problem on all APs in whole network.
What results do you get with old nstreme protocol?

Regards,
M.

Old Nstream gives a bit more, but the latency is pretty high.

The network is routed, if connect lets sy 10 clients with -50 signal then the sector goes 20Mbps + but as more clients gets added all the connected ones gets affected.

p3rad0x

nstream is far better/faster than the standard 802.11 protocol
however I prefer NV2 for large networks and long-distant networks.
Most of my 5ghz nv2 clients are 3 to 20 km on APs with 10 to 30 connected clients (using 5 GHz N-only NV2 single polarity "horizontal") can btest from 30meg to 80 meg back to my data center - with normal customers actively using their networks during the btest.

FYI - my average client registration table for most of my APs shows 150 meg connection - for each client.

Antenna db gain and wlan card rx sensitivity and a clean channel and network redundancy is everything ...

What ever the math shows for a wireless link budget at the highest connect rate - cut it in half and overdesign by 2x
North Idaho Tom Jones

Thank you.

I haven't been able to solve this issue yet.

I have checked, all ethernet connections is running @ 100Mb or 1Gb

The eternet ports of ptp bridges is running at the same speed and the links isn't being saturated.

In town there is a lot of interference(most probably the biggest culprit)

Also there is no frequency to switch to 40Mhz

Thank you.

I haven't been able to solve this issue yet.

I have checked, all ethernet connections is running @ 100Mb or 1Gb

The eternet ports of ptp bridges is running at the same speed and the links isn't being saturated.

In town there is a lot of interference(most probably the biggest culprit)

Also there is no frequency to switch to 40Mhz

Re:     Also there is no frequency to switch to 40Mhz
Well - yes and no.  To use 40 GHz of frequency channel bandwidth ...
On an N (pref N-Only) you need to set Channel Width on AP and clients to 20/40MHz Ce -or- 20/40MHz eC
If everything on the wireless AP is a Mikrotik, then also use the following:
 - NV2
 - TX Power default
 - Data rates default
 - Advanced - Hw Retries: 3
 - AP - NV2 - TDMA Period Size 2ms
 - AP - NV2 - Cell Radius:  Furthest shown in registration plus an additional 20 percent
 - System - Packages - wireless-rep
If your AP supports more than one Ethernet cable - then do the following on your AP:
 - AP ether1 POE
 - AP ether2 (non poe) - set spanning tree to prefer this interface (if you loose this port then spanning tree can fall-back to ether1)
Also most important - talk nice to your APs and clients
North Idaho Tom Jones

Nothing magical as far as I can see on our own WISP setup. I would suggest checking your spectrum quality. Do you have high noise levels from physically close by radios? Are you using excessive power levels? Is anyone else running excessive power levels close to you within the same radio band? See screenshot below from our radios running legal EiRP levels, 5ghz-only-n, Nv2 on 20M channel, 2mS TDMA period, cell radius 10km and hw-retries set to 15. A few clients are in a bad location and cannot go any faster than around 40-50M data rate. But this is a problem with trees in Fresnel Zone. Also note that Nv2 does not raise data rates until traffic passes. When just idling or with low traffic it is normal to see low data rates.

Hi,

I have tested the above settings on a sector that has clients that require a lot of bandwidth.

Using a sxt AS5 ac and all clients is within 5km.

And it seems like the sector is peaking right under 20Mbps, now to find that special frequency.

Also, is there a way to easily upgrade router os and install the rep package without doing 1 radio at a time? 

Hi,

I have tested the above settings on a sector that has clients that require a lot of bandwidth.

Using a sxt AS5 ac and all clients is within 5km.

And it seems like the sector is peaking right under 20Mbps, now to find that special frequency.

Also, is there a way to easily upgrade router os and install the rep package without doing 1 radio at a time? 

Can you post a snapshot of your registration for the AP.  Please also show the CCQ & signal-to-noise & distance * RouterOS-version
Are you using NV2 ?  If so - what is the TDMA-Period-Size & the Cell Radius
Also - what is the HW Retries set for on the AP and the clinets
Also - what is the Wireless - Band & Channel-width (on the clinets and AP)
Also - Under wireless HT - what do you have selected (AP & clients)
Also - Under Wireless - Datararates - are the clients and AP set to default

now to find that special frequency.

Also, is there a way to easily upgrade router os and install the rep package without doing 1 radio at a time? 

Once you have surveyed the radio spectrum for other stations and interference/noise, you may have an answer as to why your radio system is operating so badly. If using the default settings that are already there from MikroTik factory reset and just changing the very basic settings such as SSID, security to make a link does not improve the operation of it, then you have a spectrum issue. No changes to the config will improve it that much, as you are already at a very slow speed. So, if a reset of wireless settings (you can reset the wireless with a single button without losing all other config settings on RouterOS) does not make this operate much better, spend more time looking with spectrum analyser and using scan tools to identify the cause and hopefully, a better / quieter radio channel.

now to find that special frequency.

Also, is there a way to easily upgrade router os and install the rep package without doing 1 radio at a time? 

Once you have surveyed the radio spectrum for other stations and interference/noise, you may have an answer as to why your radio system is operating so badly.  If using the default settings that are already there from MikroTik factory reset and just changing the very basic settings such as SSID, security to make a link does not improve the operation of it, then you have a spectrum issue. No changes to the config will improve it that much, as you are already at a very slow speed.  So, if a reset of wireless settings (you can reset the wireless with a single button without losing all other config settings on RouterOS) does not make this operate much better, spend more time looking with spectrum analyser and using scan tools to identify the cause and hopefully, a better / quieter radio channel.

nest is totally correct
a clean clear frequency/channel is very important to fast throughput.
It is important and pretty easy to perform a site-survey and a frequency usage on the AP (assuming you do not connect to the AP through the wireless network)
It is also important and however not-so-easy to perform a site-survey and a frequency usage on a client connected device - because you will disconnect when you begin the scan.  There is a trick to performing a scan to a remotely connected client - here is the procedure (works most of the time):
#1 from your computer , TELNET to the remote client Mikrotik (TELNET - not ssh or winbox or http).
#2 change into /interface wireless
#3 type or paste this in (for a client frequency usage report):
     /interface wireless frequency-monitor wlan1 duration=10
#4 wait about 10 to 15 seconds (do not type anything)
#5 type or paste this in (for a client site-survey report):
     /interface wireless scan wlan1 duration=10
#6 wait about 10 to 15 seconds (do not type anything)
A frequency usage report will look something like this:
FREQ          USE          NF
2412MHz       15.7%        -96
2417MHz       4.9%         -97
2422MHz       1.1%         -96
2427MHz       0%           -97
2432MHz       0%           -98
2437MHz       1.8%         -98
2442MHz       0%           -98
2447MHz       0%           -99
2452MHz       0%           -99
2457MHz       4%           -99
2462MHz       1.8%         -98

A site-survey report will look something like this:

      ADDRESS           SSID                                           BAND       FREQ SIG NF   SNR RADIO-NAME
ABPR  00:15:6D:65:AD:2E Red-Spectrum.com                    2.4ghz-g    -96  31  MicaWA-facing-SE
ABP   00:1F:33:DB:8C:33 Netgear                                        2.4ghz-g   2437 -87 -96  9
ABPR  00:15:6D:65:FA:3B Red-Spectrum.com                    2.4ghz-g   2457 -89 -96  7   MicaWA-facing-SW
AB    00:1C:F0:F4:CE:FC Timberhouse                               2.4ghz-g   2462 -81 -96  15


Now you can find a clean clear frequency for your AP and know it is also clean/clear for all of your clients also.

Hi, 

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes in town the biggest issue is spectrum.

If you scan then there is no open channel in 20Mhz increments.

For instance on 5180 : 5 other radios will be scanned and it goes on all the way to 5700.

    FREQ          USE         NF
      5180MHz        11.8%       -109
      5200MHz        45.5%       -110
      5220MHz        40.9%       -110
      5240MHz        37.8%       -107
      5260MHz        12.6%       -102
      5280MHz        81.3%       -110
      5300MHz         7.9%       -110
      5320MHz          36%       -109
      5500MHz         7.2%       -104
      5520MHz         4.3%       -112
      5540MHz         8.5%       -112
      5560MHz        10.7%       -111
      5580MHz        25.4%       -113
      5600MHz        26.7%       -113
      5620MHz        22.5%       -110
      5640MHz        59.3%       -114
      5660MHz          13%       -112
      5680MHz        37.5%       -114
      5700MHz        13.3%       -113
      5720MHz        22.3%       -115
      5745MHz           0%       -115
      5765MHz         1.1%       -115
      5785MHz         0.5%       -116
      5805MHz           0%       -118
      5825MHz         3.3%       -117



I have found that 5 Ghz only N and NV2 works much better in high noise then 5ghz-a/n

Also the smaller wireless providers is using full power 40Mhz in the area.

All my sector antennas is shielded.

The equipment is basebox 5 with ubnt airmax sectors 

Moving away from town where my towers are the only one in 100+ km the throughput is very good, but the sectors only have about 10 clients each

Also what do you guys think about this type of antenna?

http://www.rfelements.com/products/wire ... /overview/

Tower space is running out because of all the new sector being added for the 100's of installs we do every week

Also what do you guys think about this type of antenna?

http://www.rfelements.com/products/wire ... /overview/

Tower space is running out because of all the new sector being added for the 100's of installs we do every week

We use them. They are good and do what they are built for. Carefully look at the antenna pattern. It is not a typical sector
so you loose gain if the pattern does not match your application.

Also what do you guys think about this type of antenna?

http://www.rfelements.com/products/wire ... /overview/

Tower space is running out because of all the new sector being added for the 100's of installs we do every week

We use them. They are good and do what they are built for. Carefully look at the antenna pattern. It is not a typical sector
so you loose gain if the pattern does not match your application.

We are also using them and quite happy with their performance, also totally agree with ste, the antenna radiation pattern which is conical unlike a sector antenna with say 90° hor / 8° vert  

did someone did test the throughput "through" the AP.bridge ? , maybe NV2 is not even wireless related.

i posted this question in more topics, to see if someone has tested this before,

so what if you test the client(s) bandwidth "to" the AP ( needs powerful cpu on AP ! , how has one ? )

and what bandwidth does the client has "through" the AP/bridge/ethernet--> test server

maybe someone has the proper AP/CPU to test here ?