WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna
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mipland
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WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:31 pm

Hy all.
On 16-06-2007, we (CISAR, a radioHAM italian association) have realized a 304km link (about 100km ground and 200km sea surface), between Amiata mount (1734asl) and Limbara mount (1300 ca asl).
We utilized a pair of wrap board (but they will be replaced by a new RB532 soon), a pair of Ubiquiti XR5, and a pair of handmade antenna (120cm satellite dish for the surface, and a bronze ball-bearing extracted from a bus).
The signal received on both end was from -58dBm to -62dBm, bitrate between 12 and 48Mbps, CCQ between 70 and 100.

Image

Image

Image

IW5CGM and IK0TCL on Amiata mountain

Image

Me (IZ3HAD) on Amiata Mountain

Image

IK0PCJ and IK0YUK on Limbara site.

Image

IW0UIF on Limbara Mountain

Image Image

The feed (we used the feed on the left)

On the moment i'm writing, this seems to be a distance world record (the precedent was from "Politecnico di Torino" on Italy, 295km).
The people which partecipate on this WR:

Amiata Mount
- Giuseppe IW5CGM (CISAR president);
- Antonello IK0TCL
- Mirco IZ3HAD (me)

Limbara Mount
- Natale IW0UIF
- Paolo IK0PCJ (antenna's constructor)
- Mauro IK0YUK

73 de IZ3HAD, Mirco
Last edited by mipland on Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by GotNet » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:25 pm

Too cool! One way to get EchoLink to that remote repeater. :)

73, de N4HHA

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by rickard » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:41 pm

Wow thats Respect to you guys! kepp posting about the transfer rate in TCP mode.
And pleas tell me about the Feeder used in this setup.

//Rickard

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:16 am

@GotNet (or N4HHA): this is the natural evolution of the old FM repeater, no more echolink needed, hi!

@rickard: TCP band, on a bandwidth of 5MHz, was about 5Mbps. The most important thing was the latency: it was between 8 and 20ms. We tested it with the routerboard onboard b-test from one of the two site.
I'm sorry, but i can't provide a real traffic data speed (PC-PC), becouse, on Amiata's mountain, there was a loooot of radio frequency (3 FM repeater @ 6kw - 3 x 2kw - at 3m that pointed us), and we can't made a succesfully connection between the board and a pc (the board was only 10m from the pc!).
The link was dismantled at the end of the day, and it will be reran on the end of August (we will have a permanent authorization for that date).

EDIT: I posted some photo of the feed on the first post of this thread.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by GWISA-Kroonstad » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:06 am

Truly Respect. Good High Points!

Well Done!

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by viagoth » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:25 am

Mitici !!!! Concedetemi....un punto per noi italiani :)
Last edited by viagoth on Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by normis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:45 pm

Wow, this is great! unfortunately, you missed the opportunity of worl record by a few days:
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-973070 ... 47-1_3-0-5

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:14 pm

normis wrote:Wow, this is great! unfortunately, you missed the opportunity of worl record by a few days:
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-973070 ... 47-1_3-0-5

OMG!!! :shock:
Last time we made a record (261,1km, it was only an italian record) we was "defeated" only 3 days after by a 295km link.
We are very unlucky....
Next time we will look for a 1000km link to be sure that our record will not beated as soon as this two times! :wink:

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by bajingblack » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:22 pm

wow its a great job...in indonesia we said this..."EDAN TENAN"....salute... :)

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by cuccio » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:25 pm

mipland wrote:Hy all.

On the moment i'm writing, this seems to be a distance world record (the precedent was from "Politecnico di Torino" on Italy, 295km).


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _100231044
http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/1146

Bye
Cuccio

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:37 pm


:D

They have 6W amps, a stratospheric balloon 30km high, 2.4 meters dish antenna controlled by automatic tracking system using GPS, The Swedish Space Corp. partnership, 3k€ or more equipment (only motherboard + radio card, of course), 2,4GHz. 310km.

We have: NO amps (600mW card lowered then to 10mW), 1700m asl one site and 1300m asl the other site, 120cm dish antenna with self-made feed controlled by...my (and my friend) hands :wink: , NO partnership, 300€ or less (total) equipment (motherboard + radio card + pigtail + case....of course), 5,7GHz (more fading, more dispersion, more free space loss). 304km.

Ok, you are right, THEY have the records (on 2,4GHz, of course), but...can you compare this two situations (for 6km difference)?

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:02 pm

normis wrote:Wow, this is great! unfortunately, you missed the opportunity of worl record by a few days:
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-973070 ... 47-1_3-0-5


Theyr link is @2,4GHz, our link is @5,7GHz. We maintain a little consolation....

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by GotNet » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:42 am

Still great - maybe a little EME now? :)

N4HHA-R Node 44310 Orlando 443.100+ 103.5 5.8 GHz

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by maximan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:10 am

Good Work. Amazing the signal and throughput.

Maxi - LU2PCJ

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by nazemg » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:56 pm

Great work, how much uptime do you have, is it stable? world records on such links (over water) should be in uptime, not km.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:08 pm

This was only a test link, which will be reinstalled as a fixed link on late August 2007, but we have test it for about 3-4 hour, and it was rock-solid.
More details when we will rebuild that link on, as i wrote above, late August 2007.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by nuclearcat » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:34 pm

I guess without space diversity it will be not very stable.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by balimore » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:24 am

----
oh, my good
great and congratulation ... .. :D

regards
Hasbullah.com
----
mipland wrote:

:D

They have 6W amps, a stratospheric balloon 30km high, 2.4 meters dish antenna controlled by automatic tracking system using GPS, The Swedish Space Corp. partnership, 3k€ or more equipment (only motherboard + radio card, of course), 2,4GHz. 310km.

We have: NO amps (600mW card lowered then to 10mW), 1700m asl one site and 1300m asl the other site, 120cm dish antenna with self-made feed controlled by...my (and my friend) hands :wink: , NO partnership, 300€ or less (total) equipment (motherboard + radio card + pigtail + case....of course), 5,7GHz (more fading, more dispersion, more free space loss). 304km.

Ok, you are right, THEY have the records (on 2,4GHz, of course), but...can you compare this two situations (for 6km difference)?

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by VistaVox » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:39 pm

kudos guys...
is there any chance you would post some blueprints or instructions to build a similar dish from?

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by ivaring » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:29 am

Gr8 work Mirco!.
I'm also in Italy, but at Como.
Did u do test 4 your real throughput in a Full-Dúplex (I ask u because I'm a WISP and I use MTK and other products).

Thanks and excellent!.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:55 pm

VistaVox wrote:is there any chance you would post some blueprints or instructions to build a similar dish from?

Hy.
I will ask to the feed constructor if he can give me all the interesting measure.
The antenna was made by a 120cm satellite dish (prime focus) and a hand made feed (simple dipole on a waveguide enclosure, as you can see on my last photo).

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:59 pm

ivaring wrote:Did u do test 4 your real throughput in a Full-Dúplex (I ask u because I'm a WISP and I use MTK and other products).

Hy friend, thanks for your congratulations! :wink:
I'm sorry, but i'm unable to answer to your question, becouse the link was dismantled on the same evening, and we can't do many test, becouse on one site we was unable to "talk" to the routerboard (many many many radiofrequency on that site!).
This link will be re-established on late August, and on that moment i will let you know ALL tech info.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by ivaring » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:42 pm

mipland wrote:
ivaring wrote:Did u do test 4 your real throughput in a Full-Dúplex (I ask u because I'm a WISP and I use MTK and other products).

Hy friend, thanks for your congratulations! :wink:
I'm sorry, but i'm unable to answer to your question, becouse the link was dismantled on the same evening, and we can't do many test, becouse on one site we was unable to "talk" to the routerboard (many many many radiofrequency on that site!).
This link will be re-established on late August, and on that moment i will let you know ALL tech info.


Friend, i understand, I've same problem, that's because I'm using 10GHz links on Milan.

Regards.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by maxrate » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:57 am

Marconi would be proud!

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by airstream » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:09 pm

Nice Job. Well done to the hard working team that did that.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by duke^ » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:33 am

Hats off to you.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR2 + handmade antenna

by karyal » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:54 pm

mipland wrote:They have 6W amps, a stratospheric balloon 30km high, 2.4 meters dish antenna controlled by automatic tracking system using GPS, The Swedish Space Corp. partnership, 3k€ or more equipment (only motherboard + radio card, of course), 2,4GHz. 310km.

We have: NO amps (600mW card lowered then to 10mW), 1700m asl one site and 1300m asl the other site, 120cm dish antenna with self-made feed controlled by...my (and my friend) hands :wink: , NO partnership, 300€ or less (total) equipment (motherboard + radio card + pigtail + case....of course), 5,7GHz (more fading, more dispersion, more free space loss). 304km.


Which btw also means that you were respecting the Italian power limits (even if i understand that you may user higher EIRP power than commercial WISP), while they were not.
You did a great job guys :D
Bye,
Ricky

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by enrique » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:37 pm

Hello mipland,

Nice job and forget about Swedish.

Keeping posting.

regards,

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by brasileottanta » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:57 am

E vai cosi !!! :-)

Ottimo lavoro :-)

Saluti

Marco

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by brasileottanta » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:05 pm

Hi Mipland,

if you want , we try a link to about 400km. We have a tower on Vesuvio and a lot of friends in CB ...


Bye

Marco

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mksb » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:34 pm

first of all congratulations on the job.

Want to know if you have used Nstreme protocol, can you please send comlpete details relating to this, like:
1. if you have used then what was your configuration at both ends,
2. if not then didnt you face ack-timeout issue for sucha long link

also, can you describe more about your antenna

regards

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:51 pm

brasileottanta wrote:if you want , we try a link to about 400km. We have a tower on Vesuvio and a lot of friends in CB ...

Ciao Marco, we have too some tower on Vesuvio, but i'm unable (at the moment) to find a second site at 400 (or more) kilometers, becouse of the earth curvature.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:55 pm

mksb wrote:first of all congratulations on the job.

Thanks!
mksb wrote:Want to know if you have used Nstreme protocol, can you please send comlpete details relating to this, like:
1. if you have used then what was your configuration at both ends,

Yes, we used Nstreme, becouse without it, it's simply impossible (becouse of the ack timeout limit on Atheros firmware - ideally 61km max shoot -). We configured one end as ap bridge with static wds, and the other end as wds station with dynamic wds, 5MHz bandwidth, 5765MHz frequency.
mksb wrote:2. if not then didnt you face ack-timeout issue for sucha long link

No ack timeout, look above.
mksb wrote:also, can you describe more about your antenna

It's very simple:
- 1 x satellite dish prime focus;
- 1 x handmade waveguide (a sort of "cantenna") on the dish's focus.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mksb » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 pm

hi mipland,

what kind of nstreme are you using single or dual ??

you didnt had to tune the antenna for 5ghz frequency ...

regards
MKSB

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:22 pm

mksb wrote:what kind of nstreme are you using single or dual ??

Single nstreme.
mksb wrote:you didnt had to tune the antenna for 5ghz frequency ...

I don't understand what you are asking here...we (ik0pcj, Paolo) have realized only the feed, and then we have tested it with a SWR meter. We have compared on a short link with a 29dBi pac wireless grid, and we have 6/7dBi more (rx/tx) (so 35dBi total) than with the grid.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by JR » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:39 pm

Congrats! Well done.
Its amazing @ 10mW!

73, de 8R1SR

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by titius » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:36 pm

can you give us a mikrotik print screen ?

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:21 am

titius wrote:can you give us a mikrotik print screen ?

No. I wrote on some post that this link was only a test link (it was active from 14:00 to 19:00 of one day). We will rebuild the link on late August or first of September, becouse we lack the necessary authorization.

Regards

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by channingzou » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:37 am

The signal received on both end was from -58dBm to -62dBm.
Is this legal?

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:54 pm

Yes, it's legal if we are physically at the site, becouse we are OM. On the moment we leaved the station, we have to lower the power to 10W EIRP, but this is not a problem now, becouse the link was down till the day we made it (we are waiting for necessary authorization).

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by MarTux » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:52 pm

Good job
i would like have more daitals about your link:
- The power of the used card (is it 600mW??)
- The gain of the antenna??
- Have you used Lowloss cables?? if yes witch cables are used (LMR 400?? or LMR900??) and how long are you cables??
- What about climatic conditions?? there was clouds, fogs ??

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by janisk » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:33 am

card used whats 600mW but it was underpowered to 10mW (you can read this in one of the top posts

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:57 am

MarTux wrote:- The power of the used card (is it 600mW??)

Janisk has already answer to this (thanks Janisk).
MarTux wrote:- The gain of the antenna??

35dBi estimated (120cm parabolic prime focus dish), as already wrote above.
MarTux wrote:- Have you used Lowloss cables?? if yes witch cables are used (LMR 400?? or LMR900??) and how long are you cables??

The cable was a semi-rigid coax cable, under 4mm diameter. It was long 50cm ca. You can see an example of that cable on this image:
Image
MarTux wrote:- What about climatic conditions?? there was clouds, fogs ??

There wasn't a perfect climate condition. On our site it was cloud, but sunny on the other site. The path was a little foggy.

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by UBNT-Mike » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:50 am

Hey Mipland,

Can you shoot me an email about this link you guys have. Thats an amazing distance! Mike@ubnt.com.

Thank you,

Mike
Ubiquiti Networks

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by normis » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:52 pm

here is some news about this link:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/27/worl ... 189-miles/

too bad it doesn't mention mikrotik :( nstreme is what made it possible

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:59 pm

I will write here the answer to your mail normis.

Hy Normunds,
this news is an old news. You can see on your forum that
this link was made on 16th of June 2007, and at that time,
it has a lot of resonance. On that news (and on our
technical bullettins, downloadable from our site) we
specified the use of Mikrotik routerOS. Unfortunately, at
the time of the link, we didn't have any Routerboard, only
PCEngines WRAP. Next week we will re-establish that link
(probably with Routerboard), but this time it will be a
fixed installation (at the time of the link, we hasn't the
necessary authorization), and i will publish all the tech
detail on the same thread i started on June 2007 on your
forum. Then, if you want to made a sort of "pubblications"
(as Ubiquiti did), we will provide you all the necessary
info.

The news you are seeing is a sort of "partnership" (they
will provide us some testing hardware for free) between
CISAR and Ubiquiti, and it's from Ubiquiti's
commercial/publisher (but with our approvation). They have
seen the post on your forum 2 months later... ;-)

On EVERY our pubblications (except for that Ubiquiti's
pubblications), Mikrotik RouterOS is higly mentioned as
"fundamental firmware".

Regards, Mirco "IZ3HAD"

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by normis » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:41 pm


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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by mipland » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:58 pm

digged! :wink:

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by doush » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:37 pm

hi mipland.. congrats for your link...
can you please give us some more detail about the antenna and feedhorn used ?

Also how did you do the alignment ? (via alignment mode in ROS ? )

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Re: WR: 304km with RouterOS + XR5 + handmade antenna

by jorj » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:25 am

Hello.
Did you put the permanent link on ? ( you said it would be late sept. this year. )

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