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exe
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 11, 2010 12:50 am

Here is the homework for wireless. Link is at 2km, using rb800 and sparklan wpea-110n and our config posted on this forum. Link is stable using 2 chains under v4.5 ... UDP test at 200.1M ... Real internet traffic achieved is between 180 and 190M downloading from rapidshare... Check picture:
mikrotik-80211n.gif
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aaa
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 11, 2010 3:16 pm

Hi, nice results. Can you test this link with 50-100 customers load without taffic restriction ?
 
marek001
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 11, 2010 9:08 pm

Here is the homework for wireless. Link is at 2km, using rb800 and sparklan wpea-110n and our config posted on this forum. Link is stable using 2 chains under v4.5 ... UDP test at 200.1M ... Real internet traffic achieved is between 180 and 190M downloading from rapidshare... Check picture:
mikrotik-80211n.gif
how can i open the attachment??

what kind of antennas do you use??

tnx
bye
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 12, 2010 12:49 am

hi all ... back again ...

today i have tested a backup backhaul link (simulated drop out of our fibre link) for our network (1400 wave customers connected via 11a behind). The MTs (2x433AH (!!) with R52n at 40MHz and dual polarity antennas via 3km) worked at 70MBit real traffic (voip, file-sharing, all others) at 10kpps and with delay of 2-4ms without any problems or disconnects. I think more traffic is possible at same delay and faster boards e.g. RB800 are available -- Thanks to exe's config one more time :) with this special optimizations the 11n link works best... the product is very very great ! BUT ...

i don't understand that since 4.5 release (now we have 4.9...) and some weeks of qualified reports in this topic, NO official statement of MT did come about the real problems ... the 11n works great now, but only (!!!) on nstreme with WDS (still the official forbidden config for 11n!) and additionally optimizations (work arounds) for nstreme ... till today ... and the problems with all other non_working_configs are reproducable easily on desktop devices ... why doesn't fix MT the real problems inside OS with packet handling and wlan-speed-sense on all 11n modes and why does noone give a statement about problem fixing procedure inside OS. Is this really sooo hard to do ??? i don't understand the policy because this handling gives frustration and speculations to change to other available products on the market ... and this is really NOT necessary because 11n on MT works - now !

hopefully waiting for a statement of MT ...

rgds
dieterk
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 12, 2010 10:27 am

nstreme with WDS
no, 4.9 fixes the issue and wds should no longer be required. this was true for earlier versions. check the changelog.
 
rpingar
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 12, 2010 10:42 am

i tested 4.9 and wds is still required to get the best performance in terms of speed and jitter.

regards
Ros
 
dormador
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 pm

Here is the homework for wireless. Link is at 2km, using rb800 and sparklan wpea-110n and our config posted on this forum. Link is stable using 2 chains under v4.5 ... UDP test at 200.1M ... Real internet traffic achieved is between 180 and 190M downloading from rapidshare... Check picture:
mikrotik-80211n.gif
how can i open the attachment??

what kind of antennas do you use??

tnx
bye
same Q !!
 
thrill123
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 13, 2010 1:23 am

I noticed that PtP link works best without airmax.
Try out the latest 5.2 beta firmware and check latency when passing traffic. With AIRMAX-on I get under 10ms latency sending 90Mbps TCP traffic on a 6 mile link. With AIRMAX-off its about 35ms but the thoughput is 15 megs lower.
 
kandidat77
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 14, 2010 11:27 am

Have anyone tested of "N" with Nstream on 2.4 Ghz?
In a comprataively "radio clean" environment..
 
hallsys
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 14, 2010 8:34 pm

Here is the homework for wireless. Link is at 2km, using rb800 and sparklan wpea-110n and our config posted on this forum. Link is stable using 2 chains under v4.5 ... UDP test at 200.1M ... Real internet traffic achieved is between 180 and 190M downloading from rapidshare... Check picture:
mikrotik-80211n.gif
yes
i test link with airmax and with homework antena and airmax no good !
 
frontiersteve
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 19, 2010 9:17 pm

Was anyone able to open the attachments on the earlier post? :?
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 19, 2010 10:43 pm

yes, but only on: May 11 :-)
 
aaa
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 20, 2010 8:08 am

Same. Normis can you check what's happen with attachment?
 
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sergejs
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 20, 2010 11:08 am

Normis is on vacation.
I guess the problem is with exe post on 11.05.2010.
It seems the attachment was deleted (it is not possible to find on server), so we should ask exe to upload it one more time.
 
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exe
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 21, 2010 1:33 am

Normis is on vacation.
I guess the problem is with exe post on 11.05.2010.
It seems the attachment was deleted (it is not possible to find on server), so we should ask exe to upload it one more time.
Here it is again:
mikrotik-80211n.gif
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marek001
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 21, 2010 12:44 pm

but this is utp traffic...

can you send a picture of tcp troughput??

tnx
bye
 
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exe
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 21, 2010 6:11 pm

Yes...

Here is the real traffic, downloading from rapidshare:
mt-real.jpg
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marek001
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 21, 2010 6:22 pm

i just don't understand how you do this..i have the exact same config as you describe and i have try'd with alot other antenas and change my rb433ah with c2d PC's and still nothing..

can you post your config again??

tnx
bye
 
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exe
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 21, 2010 10:23 pm

with 433ah you cannot achieve this..

You should not use x86 PC because there is hardware incompatibility with some motherboards .. You should use mbs which is proven to work good with mikrotik and upgrade your bios to the latest version.
Use RB800 on both parts of the link and you should not have any problem.

Configuration is exactly like in this thread.
 
chronos
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Re: 802.11n

Sat May 22, 2010 1:31 pm

I am testing two RB411 now in bridge and can't get 200 Mbit UDP which I achieved about year ago with bridge with RB600A and RB433AH maybe at that time routeros 4.2.

Current setting and condition:
- indoor test
- Two RB411 with R52N, routeros 4.9
- bridge, WDS, 5 GHz-n, hw. retries 3
- signal is good, CCQ is good and stable over 90%
- link speed is i 270 Mbit HT and estimated P throughput is 150 Mbit
- 300 MHz CPU is not overloaded, usage about 30 % caused partly by test itself
- routeros UDP test goes up to 47 Mbit, speedtest.net mini measured 37 Mbit TCP

Why max. real UDP throughput is only 50 Mbit then it should be 200 Mbit?
Is this some limit of RB411 even CPU is not loaded too much?
Weird thing is that link speed can't get to 300 Mbit HT, only 270 HT even with good signal.
5GHz a mode real UDP throughput is 29 Mbit with good CCQ and 54/54 Mbit link speed, real TCP test using speedtest.net mini measure about 23 Mbit TCP

There should be some magic setting somewhere.

I have to buy another RB600A or other more powerfull board to repeat earlier tests and compare results.
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mishaM
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Re: 802.11n

Sat May 22, 2010 3:01 pm

Image


Here is the configuration of maximum stability of Align,
 
mindaugasr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat May 22, 2010 8:14 pm

I have same issue with 270HT mbps. My link also never connect at 300HT/300HT. All time is connected on 270HT/270HT. Can anyone tell me what's wrong in my config?

Very Thanks.
I am testing two RB411 now in bridge and can't get 200 Mbit UDP which I achieved about year ago with bridge with RB600A and RB433AH maybe at that time routeros 4.2.

Current setting and condition:
- indoor test
- Two RB411 with R52N, routeros 4.9
- bridge, WDS, 5 GHz-n, hw. retries 3
- signal is good, CCQ is good and stable over 90%
- link speed is i 270 Mbit HT and estimated P throughput is 150 Mbit
- 300 MHz CPU is not overloaded, usage about 30 % caused partly by test itself
- routeros UDP test goes up to 47 Mbit, speedtest.net mini measured 37 Mbit TCP

Why max. real UDP throughput is only 50 Mbit then it should be 200 Mbit?
Is this some limit of RB411 even CPU is not loaded too much?
Weird thing is that link speed can't get to 300 Mbit HT, only 270 HT even with good signal.
5GHz a mode real UDP throughput is 29 Mbit with good CCQ and 54/54 Mbit link speed, real TCP test using speedtest.net mini measure about 23 Mbit TCP

There should be some magic setting somewhere.

I have to buy another RB600A or other more powerfull board to repeat earlier tests and compare results.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
Insider
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 24, 2010 9:02 am

I have same issue with 270HT mbps. My link also never connect at 300HT/300HT. All time is connected on 270HT/270HT. Can anyone tell me what's wrong in my config?

Very Thanks.
I am testing two RB411 now in bridge and can't get 200 Mbit UDP which I achieved about year ago with bridge with RB600A and RB433AH maybe at that time routeros 4.2.

Current setting and condition:
- indoor test
- Two RB411 with R52N, routeros 4.9
- bridge, WDS, 5 GHz-n, hw. retries 3
- signal is good, CCQ is good and stable over 90%
- link speed is i 270 Mbit HT and estimated P throughput is 150 Mbit
- 300 MHz CPU is not overloaded, usage about 30 % caused partly by test itself
- routeros UDP test goes up to 47 Mbit, speedtest.net mini measured 37 Mbit TCP

Why max. real UDP throughput is only 50 Mbit then it should be 200 Mbit?
Is this some limit of RB411 even CPU is not loaded too much?
Weird thing is that link speed can't get to 300 Mbit HT, only 270 HT even with good signal.
5GHz a mode real UDP throughput is 29 Mbit with good CCQ and 54/54 Mbit link speed, real TCP test using speedtest.net mini measure about 23 Mbit TCP

There should be some magic setting somewhere.

I have to buy another RB600A or other more powerfull board to repeat earlier tests and compare results.
Something is not OK.. My own experience is that 65mbit HW makes 60mbit thruput, 121mbit HW makes 95mbit thruput, as count as counting 270mbit has to make at least 210mbit thruput in layer2.. There is inter chain problem.. I will work this out next month
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 24, 2010 8:29 pm

Hi !
it seems that 4.9 runs on PTP now without "exe's special nstreme optimizations" for data rates. i have configured 2 PTP links, one with RB433AH and one with RB800, R52n at 5GHz, 20MHz and 40MHz. Both links are stable and best throughput. ATTENTION: it seems that 4.9 also handles the data rate setting other than the versions before ?!? i did't get a link on the manually configured WLANs after updating to 4.9...!!!! with standard speed settings it worked fine ...

So the mayor reqirements are from my view today:

- free channel
- nstreme and WDS as explained on many last posts (everytheng else doesn't perform well)
- set hw-retries at 15 (it helps to get betst stability for PTP)
- additionally i use adaptive noise immunity
nothing else ...

if i put traffic on the link, the wlan speed optimizes itselve now from A-rates to maximum HT rates quickly. Ihe link is very stable, no disconnects. Throughput is best. because of CPU power RB800 performs better and you can see the possible tcp speed with bandwith-test on the same devices. On RB433AH the packet forwarding is fine but don't test with tcp-bandwidth test on same devices... !!! cpu goes to 100% and you will get bad results. but the link itselve can perform good also an 433AH! (i had real traffic with app. 90MBit without problems)

with this configuration you can get very fast throughput you have ever seen at 1-4ms delay. no problem for voip & co...

so it is now much easier to get good results without optimizing. only nstreme and WDS is absolutly necessary !!

rgds
dieterk
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat May 29, 2010 11:00 am

I also tested 802.11n this mooning.
On production link simple replace UB5 on both side with R5nH and pigtail cable use some setting like before nstreme enabled, WDS static other side station WDS, adaptive noise immunity ap and client mode all like before on 5Ghz turbo link. Both side 4.9

Mode 5Ghz-a/n and change one new thing HT extension channel above control.
Noting special to configure.


And here is results.


Image

Compare to 5GHz turbo link much better speed simple replace only minipci card. Before TCP test one side usually 60-65Mbps now is 80-95Mbps.
I like 802.11n :D is work good with only one chain (antena).
I will try to replace some others link and try 2,4Ghz-n.
 
mars
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Re: 802.11n

Sat May 29, 2010 2:57 pm

hi does anybody know what the distance between 2 grids must be to use 2 chains 0n each side
thanks
 
couresportivo
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:55 am

Has anybody had good results with PTMP 11.N.

pleas epost configs and any info
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:35 pm

hi does anybody know what the distance between 2 grids must be to use 2 chains 0n each side
thanks

A "good" distance ( rule of thumb) is 30 cm for 5G scientific calulation may show different but 30 cm woorsk fine

THat is for different channels not mimo
 
jbowsher
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:35 pm

I have tried everything from one card with only one chain to bonding 2 eoip tunnels and i cannot achieve anywhere close to the speeds that you guys are seeing. I have tried the forum configs that everyone has been using. I have even tried using MPLS/VPLS tunnels and i am at wits end. I am using 2 rackmount networking appliances (x86) they have 3.66 Ghz processors so that should be plenty of power i think. I will say that i have tried both the ubiquiti SR 71-15 and the Compex WLM200N5-26 cards and also the R52N's. I do believe that there is a problem with the btest in mikrotik when using it on a pc because the test results between the boxes was horrible but if i put my laptop on one and a RB1100 on the other end the wireless link will give me 80Mbps receive to my laptop before the RB1100 CPU is maxed out 100%, but my laptop single core 1.6Ghz intel would only send about 40Mbps before my CPU was maxed out. So I decided to try file transfers between two laptops accross the ptp link and then i saw something even more odd.....granted my test laptops only have 100Mb NIC's but i figured if i max them out then i would try something with gigabit NIC's, but when transferring files simultaneously being that these are 100Mb full duplex NIC's in the PC's i should see about 90Mbps both ways or so i would think. The traffic would stick at 50-54Mbps(bi-directionally) nothing shows a lot of CPU usage (laptops or network appliances) and both laptops would show 90% utilization of their NIC. I have found that Dual Nstreme is a flop and i have not had any good results with nstreme turned on period. WDS doesnt seem to perform as well as VPLS or EOIP tunnels. Just looking for some insight and guidance to make this work like it is supposed to. Also, all tests have been performed on RouterOS 4.9. Thank you in advance for any help or advice that you can give.
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:37 am

I also tested 802.11n this mooning.
On production link simple replace UB5 on both side with R5nH and pigtail cable use some setting like before nstreme enabled, WDS static other side station WDS, adaptive noise immunity ap and client mode all like before on 5Ghz turbo link. Both side 4.9

Mode 5Ghz-a/n and change one new thing HT extension channel above control.
Noting special to configure.

And here is results.

Compare to 5GHz turbo link much better speed simple replace only minipci card. Before TCP test one side usually 60-65Mbps now is 80-95Mbps.
I like 802.11n :D is work good with only one chain (antena).
I will try to replace some others link and try 2,4Ghz-n.
culd you more recently introduce situation - antennas, distance and what system you use (routerboard, pc)...
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:42 am

because our results were terrible in a similar configuration - pcs with 4.9 ar71 cards, 5GHz-a/n, 15km, etc... 80Mbps but if test on single direction (transmit or receive). if direction = both, 12bmps/300Kbps (!!).

Thus discussed many times on forum. They said that this is interferrence and we wait for nstreme improvement.
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:13 am

Hi,

AM I correct that you work from MS to MS

Or is it that you work from MS to the router board. You will find that certain test will max the cpou out but when you work through the MK then you get better through put.

look at this link http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html down load the windows speed test tool and see what you get from either pc

If dual nstrem gives a problem try by setting the routes to the ip on one cahnnel for up and then on the other channel for down. Use two different freq 1 for up and 1 foe down.

When we use it like this we get good through put.

Alos try and get you signal strength low like below -55 we find that the greater the signal the better the communitcations.

Would be nice if MK will increase the power to +/- 400 mW so that the loss could be compensated for. Call it a R52H+n card.

I am quit sure this was discused previuosly.
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:45 pm

...
AM I correct that you work from MS to MS
...
Would be nice if MK will increase the power to +/- 400 mW so that the loss could be compensated for. Call it a R52H+n card.
What is MS? And MK.
 
dantasik
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:29 pm

Hello,

Im testing N ptp. I achieve 130Mbit UDP. Signal was -45dBm. data rates 270Mbps-HT.
Now i move that ptp to anothe site. At this moment signal is -61dBm. Rates are from 216Mbps-300Mbps.

I use RB600A and RB433AH.
If im testing bw on localhost i can push 300-400mbit UDP on RB433AH, but on RB600A localy i can push only 90-100Mbit UDP. If im turn off the N interface i push 300-400Mbit also. Maybe litle bit less - doesnt matter.

But in every case the CPU is not loaded to 100%. Is there some other limitations?Bus for example or something else?
 
herbicidal
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N-Mode 83KM Test - Impressive

Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:54 am

My performance results using the following hardware

2 RB433AH
2 RB52Hn
Using Version 4.10
Dual Polarity 4' Dishes (Not sure on the exact db)
Distance 83KM
Frequency 5700
With 2nd Channel (40mhz width)
Using Nstreme and WDS

Signal level is between -59 & -63 both directions.

Resulting link is stable operating at 108.0Mbps-HT in both directions
Have not yet hooked up the second chain so I am operating only with one antenna on each end, not using the dual polarity antenna.
Disabled a few of the lower mcs rates to improve initial connectivity otherwise it seemed to bounce around with funny (lower) signal values for a while.

Results are impressive though
48Mbit throughput TCP on the bandwidth test tool
56Mbit throughput UDP

Currently of a hundred or so links on our network, this is the fastest link with the highest throughput, and also has the longest distance. 8)

Ping times large packets are under 4ms
Tried setting it up in mpls/vpls bridge mode as per the wiki, performance dropped dramatically down to approx 10Mbit.

Have not tried the beta firmware as this is a production link. My older redline radio is sitting idle (radio off) on the second polarity as a backup for now.
 
0  R name=wlan1 mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:64:2C:2C arp=enabled disable-running-check=no interface-type=Atheros 11N radio-name=000C42642C2C mode=ap-bridge ssid=NG-HH area="" frequency-mode=superchannel country=canada antenna-gain=0 frequency=5700 band=5ghz-onlyn scan-list=default rate-set=configured supported-rates-b=1Mbps,2Mbps,5.5Mbps,11Mbps supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps basic-rates-b=1Mbps basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps max-station-count=2007 ack-timeout=dynamic tx-power-mode=default periodic-calibration=default periodic-calibration-interval=60 dfs-mode=none wds-mode dynamic wds-default-bridge=bridge1 wds-default-cost=100 wds-cost-range=50-150 wds-ignore-ssid=no update-stats-interval=disabled default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0 proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 wmm-support=disabled hide-ssid=no security-profile=default disconnect-timeout=3s on-fail-retry-time=100ms preamble-mode=both compression=no allow-sharedkey=no station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 ht-ampdu-priorities=0 ht-guard-interval=any ht-extension-channel=above-control ht-supported-mcs=mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7,mcs-8,mcs-9,mcs-10,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 ht-basic-mcs=mcs-4,mcs
-5,mcs-6,mcs-7 ht-txchains=0 ht-rxchains=0 ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 hw-retries=15 frame-lifetime=0 adaptive-noise-immunity=none hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none hw-protection-threshold=0 frequency-offset=0 
 
ste
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:06 am

Yes. Things get more solid now. Running a single-chain 5,5GHz R52n connection 44MBit UDP FDX 8km.
RB411AH to RB600 R52n. Nstreme without WDS. 5b3 to 4.10. No data-rate settings.
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:52 am

Did someone resolve the issue of not getting max layer2 throughput?

I've managed to successfully setup 802.11n p2p link with such configuration:
Both ends RB433AH with R52n hooked up to 2 x 23db panel antennas in different polarizations.
One set to bridge, other set to station mode. 5GHz-only-N mode. All ordinary data rates unchecked. NStreme disabled.
Antennas are perfectly aligned with previous dual-nstreme setup and in N mode get signals -50/-51. CCQ of the link is always around 96-100%, and P throughput bounces about 98mbps. Link is extremely stable, counts high uptimes.

Since I'm limited with 100mbps ethernet, I'm totally happy with 100mbps of real wireless throughput. However I cannot achieve speeds higher than about 30mbps through layer2 bridging. Strangely bandwidth test from winbox itself shows 96mbps in UDP and 56mbps in TCP (which I'm sure is limited by routers CPU ability to generate that much of TCP packets, because it hits 100% during the test).

I've tried numerous different configurations, including WDS, Nstreme, tried everything mentioned in this forum, etc.. The results vary from very unstable link with quite good throughput (but still no more than 60mbps) to low data throughput and so on.

Currently I've sticked to MPLS layer2 bridging solution described in this article:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transpare ... using_MPLS

It works really great and looked very promising at first, but unfortunately doesn't give me that much of throughput I previously had with my 5GHz turbo setup..

Maybe someone could give some suggestions or share their experience in setting up a 11n link with demands described above?
I shall soon post some sshots and sketches to get the picture more clear, because I do believe I'm not only one here experiencing such issues. This new N standard has a lot of potential and I'm looking very seriously to it as for replacement of current 11a links :)
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:18 pm

Hi taduikis !

With nstreme and WDS (both are still necessary !!) and 4.10 you should reach best performace, if you have really free channel and good link quality. Sometimes it is necessary to reduce output power and seperate channels very carefully. But the max-throughput shows you the possible throughput which can nearly be reached .... if this value is good and stable, the link is good ...

You can reach the maximum throughput with every configuration scenario (even with MPLS) but ALWAYS put the communications IPs into the WDS bridge !!! or use only the bWDS bridge ... Do NOT (!!!) as shown in this WIKI article !!! - it works NOT as required. Please read the posts (many of them describes the problem and the workarround) carefully - this works really !! The problem is still the packet handling on most modes, which will produce delay. And this delay reduces the tcp speed quickly. You can see this problem if you look at the ping delay times if you reach your limit which can be 30-40MBit at the wrong settings ...

You can see the success if you have delay times of 1-4 ms even above 30-40MBit. Then the speed rises up to the limits of CPU power of the boards and the WLAN-Link restricts. Then you have opened the delay-bug-valve ;-)

I have 100MBit and more. Some others have nearly reached 200MBit at best conditions and fast boards ...

good luck !
DieterK
Last edited by dieterk on Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:15 pm

wds and nstreme?
it works?
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:47 pm

YES ! try it ... only this mode works great ! because there is still a packet-handling bug inside the current ROS 4.10 which produces delay on WLAN links if you don't use nstreme and WDS bridge together ... this produced delay at 30-40MBit traffic - which is present on other modes - limits tcp speed because of tcp protocol implementation ... and we all would be very very happy if MT would not ignore this problem and fix this bug and/or give a stetement about problem-fixing in near future ... many people would not run into the same problems ... AND this WIKI article referring the "necessary" 11n configuration with MPLS shows the WRONG way (!!), it doesn't help and it doesn't work at required throughput ... you don't need MPLS or anything else, the key which you need this time is: nstreme and WDS ... and if you use tunnels, or routed mode, communications IPs must be inside this WDS brdige ...

: this is the workarround !
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:54 pm

yeah! i'll try it.

i meant that if n mode switched and nstreme enabled there is worst results. if nstreme disabled - interference kills everything...

on the other hand, i don't like wsd links, 'cause wds decreases performance.

because of that your last post is very interesting for me
 
chronos
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:51 am

Indoor test with good signal.
Without nstream speed is up to 30-50 Mbit and link is stable. Max. link speed 270/270Mbit-HT.
With nstream speed in UDP can go up to 200 Mbit on 300Mbit-HT link speed and TCP tested with iperf go up to 97 Mbit in one direction limited by 100 Mbit ethernet interface and up to 65 Mbit TCP in both direction but link it is much less stable and sometimes link start droping. hw-retries could influnece stability in matter of retransmits.

It is usable but not stable enough for me.
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:47 pm

Yeah, with so many settings in control, there exist numerous different configurations.. I could say that "kitchen tests" performed indoors hugely differ from real results when trying to set up the link outdoors. With all the equipment laid on the table, even with WDS+Nstreme everything looked very promising. Not so when put in real action.

I've picked the channel very carefully according to the spectrum usage to avoid interference and so on. Antennas are perfectly aligned, so I dare to say they are not the reason of poor link quality, because in plain 802.11a they show signal around -45 dBm bothways.

One end is obviously always set to bridge mode. And here's the interesting part: when another end of the link is set to any kind of station mode - it works great, I've got heavily loaded link running for 4 days without disconnection now. Set the mode to station wds and everything collapses, signals start to be in -70 range, frequent disconnections with "extensive data loss" reason, nstreme enabled or disabled doesn't make any difference. When running in station mode, enabling the nstreme doesn't help either, link becomes unacceptably unstable. Though without nstreme everything runs just fine - tx/rx rate indicates 130/130mbps-HT, P throughput ~98mbps, latency is <= 1ms and slighlty increases while on load, which is understandable.

Actually I don't really care what mode to use as long as I get the desired results. Currently I'm using the MPLS solution only because it allows transparent bridging solution while in station mode. And in station mode only I get that perfect stability..

I am hoping somebody could explain why I can see 95-105mbps UDP and 55mbps TCP throughput while using winbox bandwidth test utility when testing the throughput to the IP of the wlan device on either station or bridge end and cannot get more than 30mbps through transparent layer2 network bridge. Maybe it has something to do with bridge settings?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:59 pm

hi taduikis !

you cannot get more than 30MBit, because ROS has a problem inside ... it is not to set-up, it's to fix fom MT ;-)
we all have same resultes ... the standard mode and station mode (also on nstreme) cannot push more mbits over the air, because it increases the delay on traffic. you get 20-30ms (the higher delay is NOT OK on traffic !!) at 30MBit and therefore tcp cannot send more traffic, because its communications protocol sends as fast as it gets answers from the other side ... and delay reduces throughput automatically to "not overload" the line and get packet loss ...

only nstreme+WDS handles the packets (this time) as fast as required to communicate at 1ms with the oter side on traffic too ...

i have now 4 outdoor links with 11n running at nstreme+WDS at 5 GHz !!! :
2 x RB433AH (R52, single chain, 23dbi-Antenna, 3km, above control, 135-150MBit-HT) = real tcp traffic 100MBit tested
2 x RB433AH (R52, single chain, 23dbi, 5km, above control, 135-HT) = real tcp traffic 100MBit tested
2 x RB600 (R52, 2 chains, 23dbi dual polarity, 3km, above control, 270-300MBit-HT) = real tcp traffic 130MBit tested
2 x RB800 (R52, 2 chains, 23dbi dual polarity, 1km, above control, 300MBit-HT) = real tcp traffic 150MBit tested

you need:
- 4.10 (update board-firmware too: "/system routerboard upgrade")
- free channel(s)
- maybe reduce tx-power
- 5 GHz-Only-N
- "bridge" or "AP bridge" one side
- "station WDS" other side
- WLAN WDS settings: both sides within the bridge
- nstreme !
- (on use with MPLS both communications IPs for MPLS not on wlan-interface it MUST be in the wds-bridge-interface)
- hw-reties: 15
- (i use) adaptive noise immunity
- maybe above control, if you want to use 40MHz for double-speed ...

the link should be stable on nstreme too, the link wasn't stable on ROS versions before 4.10 !! on 4.10 i had only disconnects on nstreme on too high power settings and/or interference from neighbour channels ....

please check again, it should work !!!

dieter
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:28 pm

I understand what you're trying to say. Believe me, I've tried everything, read lots of forums..
Whatever I do, I'm not able to reach anything over 30mbps. Your described setup with NStreme + WDS doesn't give me that either.. In addition it turns my link quite unstable, lowers CCQ and P throughput. Tx-power tunning is not necessary, because any change gives lower link quality than with leaving everything on default.

And what's more, I am starting to believe it's something in the bridge itself, because with your suggested WDS+NStreme setup I can measure ~80mbps UDP and ~40mbps TCP from winbox bandwidth test tool. Both sides have IP's assigned to corresponding bridges.

To help to understand everything, I've drawn illustration which also shows my intended setup:
network_setup.png
The Internet connection does provide 100mbps at any time to my test location. I'm sure of it, because when connected directly to my laptop it always gives what it is supposed to give.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
dieterk
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:22 pm

Hello taduikis !
i understand your problem. the bridge-delay-problems inside ROS stopps your traffic at 30MBit and nstreme is unstable at your configuration. maybe there is another problem at your link... please remember that nstreme sends a lot of polling packets and if there is a problem in the link (reflections etc...) nstreme can tilt over more quickly than standard modes. and 11n is additionally more sensitive than 11a ...
do you really have 4.10 ROS installed and updated firmware ?? if not - it is clear for me, that nstreme doesn't work on your config.... if yes - i think you have to optimize your antennas, frequencies etc ... sorry cannot say anything else ... the config i have posted above (please check each point carefully) works great at my location an some different links. and your 30MBit limit is the known ROS bug which produces delay on traffic from LAN to WLAN through the routerboard, i can only solve this problem with nstreme+WDS this time ...
rgds, dieterk
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:12 pm

2km link with rb/600 and r52n.
95m full duplex tcp traffic achieved, test was from notebook to notebook with 100m ethernet.
That’s not a limit I think. Anyway outstanding result !! great work MT!!

one problem is that sometimes link disconnects and log entry appears ‘not polled for to long’
without nstream polling link is not working as good as with polling.

Could someone advice how I can correct this?
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:00 am

OpiumDream: it was explained a few times in this thread.

dieterk: yes, all my RBs are 4.10 with upgraded bootloader.

Well, I guess I'm on my own with this one..
 
OpiumDream
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:10 am

i found posts which mentioned that N and nstream is not compatible but i had same 'not polled for to long' on pure A links.

maybe MT ppl can tell us how to solve this ?
on pure data links it's not a big problem if 1 ping will be lost but on links carrying call center voice traffic its catastrophe :(
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:35 pm

i found posts which mentioned that N and nstream is not compatible but i had same 'not polled for to long' on pure A links.

maybe MT ppl can tell us how to solve this ?
on pure data links it's not a big problem if 1 ping will be lost but on links carrying call center voice traffic its catastrophe :(
Check very first pages of this topic, there was something mentioned about your problem. After upgrade to 4.10 I don't see any of those.

P.S. I'm still hoping to hear out some bright ideas about that bridge throughput :)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:19 pm

we have 4.10 :(
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:15 pm

I have a poor link that is only running at 3 mbps with 10 Mhz channel bandwidth.
It is a link with no good line of sight, because many trees and bushes are there.
Is it possible to use 802.11n for that link and getting more speed?

Greetings
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:04 pm

what setting do i use on n cards if i use chain as i cant seem to get ccq up i played with tx powe as on defualt i get -20

for 3km link please help with a basic setup that works with 20-30 mb that i can play with
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:20 pm

I have a poor link that is only running at 3 mbps with 10 Mhz channel bandwidth.
It is a link with no good line of sight, because many trees and bushes are there.
Is it possible to use 802.11n for that link and getting more speed?

Greetings
unfortunately, no. n-draft usable when everything is almost ideal. and after that nobody knows why if not usable. we fighting for bandwidth test of 100Mbps (FDX) @ 5km link already year - unsuccessfully. -55dBm levels, 140Mbps, but only one directional. when direction=both, worst results done.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:03 pm

can anyone help i have lOS 3km

26dbi grids both sides
433ah on both sides and n radios
i have connected one chain0
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:21 pm

what cards
what signal levels
 
OpiumDream
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:34 pm

has anyone tried n link bonding ?
is 300 mb real throughput achievable or it's just a 2 more years dream ?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:46 pm

it's still only a dream
 
missinlnk
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:40 pm

it's still only a dream
I have a customer trying to accomplish it right now. He's using some high dollar filters to do it. He's got the link working, but he's still working out the kinks to try to get it above the bandwidth of just one fully maxed out 2x2 40MHz N link.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:15 pm

Hi guys,
that's the result of my tests with 802.11n on Mikrotik hardware, keep reading for an abstract of results and images with settings.

I started using the settings suggested by "exe" on the previous posts and make some changes to find the best tradeoff between stability and performance.

SCENARIO
AP and STATION: RB433AH and R52n radios inside outdoor metal boxes with u.fl-N pigtails
Antennas: Jirous JRC-24 DuplEX
Distance: 4km with perfect LOS

RESULTS (see images below)

Highest UDP speed reached: 180Mbit/s stable and simmetric on downlink or uplink, CPU average load @ 70-75%, average ping @ 15ms
Image

Highest TCP speed reached: 90-95Mbit/s stable and simmetric on downlink or uplink , CPU average load @ 100%, average ping @ 40ms
Image

Image


ROUTEROS SETTINGS (while testing at 150Mbit/s UDP fixed speed)
Image

Image

NOTES
- Using HW-retries of 4, 10 or 15 the results didn't change that much
- I made the tests using RouterOS 4.9, 4.10 and 5.0beta2 on both devices with no change on performance
- Each outdoor box has only one RB433AH, one R52n and 2 pigtails. At first I put the test board together with another RB433AH in the same box and the RF interferences caused the link to work perfectly only on tx side: the rx side was interferred by the other miniPCI radio even though their working frequencies were spaced by 400MHz!

I will soon do more tests using RB750G connected after each RB433AH, so the results will be more effective and similar to a real production scenario.

Bye,
mattia
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:53 pm

anybody seen one direction bandwidth tests resulting in 346Mbps UDP and 140Mbps TCP? Thats what I was getting yesterday with my sr71's and was curious if anyone else has seen better results? :shock:
 
OpiumDream
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:34 pm

it's a kind of magic :shock:
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:20 am

no, it isn't a magic. no even impressive result.

let iw4eky show result of bandwidth-test with direction=both
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:23 am

iw4eky, show us result of bandwidth-test with direction=both
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:47 am

Ok, below you can find the results of bandwidth-test using "both" directions!

Highest UDP simmetric speed reached: 66Mbit/s stable on both downlink and uplink, CPU average load @ 30%, average ping @ 40ms
Image

Highest TCP simmetric speed reached: 58Mbit/s stable on both downlink and uplink, CPU average load @ 100%, average ping @ 40ms
Image

Highest UDP asimmetric speed reached: 90Mbit/s down and 35Mbit/s up, both stable on downlink and uplink, CPU average load @ 15%, average ping @ 9ms
Image

Highest TCP asimmetric speed reached: 68Mbit/s down adn 35Mbit/s up, both stable on downlink and uplink, CPU average load @ 100%, average ping @ 34ms
Image


And I'd like you to believe me that I post the results just to be of help to the Mikrotik user community: I don't want to challenge anyone nor I desire any prize! This is my job and I'd like to share the results with you, as I was helped by the work of other users on this forum.

Bye,
mattia
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:42 pm

wasn't looking for a prize.....I was a little shocked with my results as they were the best I've seen but I felt that it was still less than adequate for 5ghz-N and I was looking to see if anyone had gotten closer to the 200 Mbps mark than I had. I am curious why everyone uses RB800 or RB433AH's since it seems to be better to have more processor. The best I had "both directions" was 170 Mbps/170 Mbps UDP. TCP seems to jump around a lot but mine was hanging around 80 Mbps/60 Mbps both directions and part of me thinks its just that the bandwidth test doesnt like x86 as i have confirmed with a couple mikrotik distributors that there is a problem with x86 and the btest which i have seen with other tests of my own. I want to help out here too but I want to get the best results or make sure I have the best config so that I don't hand out problems with my setup. Thank you for any help or advice that you can share.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:23 pm

impressive results iw4eky :D
keep us updated if you get better results..
If you can get a picture of your installation too to see what it does look like would be very nice :D
BTW, i'm using your same antennas and i recommend them too
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:57 am

yeah!

impressive!
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:13 am

yeah.. glad to see your success :) I think of moving back to 11a-turbo setup already.. :)
Last edited by taduikis on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:03 pm

.. I'm think of moving back to 11a-turbo setup already.. :)
+1
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:35 pm

OK, I'm having... issues with 802.11n and despite of the reading of this forum I can't cope with configuration.

Here's the hardware I've got:
2 x (RB 433 UAH, ROS 4.10, R52n)
The wireless interface is in WDS, which is added to a mesh. Both antennas of R52n are AirMax AM-5G16, connected on pig tails only. The distance between my 2 test MTs is about 6-7m.
Iface config:
1  R name="r52-n" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:61:98:05 arp=enabled disable-running-check=no interface-type=Atheros 11N 
      radio-name="r52piontec_1" mode=ap-bridge ssid="test-1" area="" frequency-mode=manual-txpower country=poland 
      antenna-gain=16 frequency=5200 band=5ghz-onlyn scan-list=default rate-set=default 
      supported-rates-b=1Mbps,2Mbps,5.5Mbps,11Mbps 
      supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps basic-rates-b=1Mbps basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps 
      max-station-count=2007 ack-timeout=dynamic tx-power=12 tx-power-mode=card-rates periodic-calibration=default 
      periodic-calibration-interval=60 dfs-mode=none wds-mode=dynamic-mesh wds-default-bridge=mesh-testb 
      wds-default-cost=100 wds-cost-range=50-150 wds-ignore-ssid=no update-stats-interval=disabled 
      default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0 
      proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 wmm-support=enabled hide-ssid=no security-profile=default disconnect-timeout=3s 
      on-fail-retry-time=100ms preamble-mode=both compression=no allow-sharedkey=no 
      station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 ht-ampdu-priorities=0,1 ht-guard-interval=any 
      ht-extension-channel=above-control 
      ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7,mcs-8,mcs-9,mcs-10,mcs-11,mcs-12,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-
                       15 
      ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-2,mcs-3,mcs-4,mcs-5,mcs-6,mcs-7 ht-txchains=0,1 ht-rxchains=0,1 ht-amsdu-limit=8192 
      ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 hw-retries=3 frame-lifetime=0 adaptive-noise-immunity=none 
      hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none hw-protection-threshold=0 frequency-offset=0 

Now, problems I'm having:

1) During quite a few of my tests, the wireless link on the 2. layer was up, but there was no layer 3 link, when one of the MTs was in a high-speed mode; when the link dropped to 54M (a), everything worked OK. Unfortunately, I'm not able to reproduce this right now...

2) Sometime the reported link was even 300M/54M, but always only one peer of the connection has .n mode, the other is 54M max. Worse, when I run the speed test, it is something like 9-10Mb/s (tcp, both directions) or 12 (udp, both); even in one direction (the faster one, >> 140Mb) for udp it is 13Mb/s!!!

3) Sometime, despite the same configuration and exactly the same physical position, .n modes just don't set up -- I'm ending with 54/54 or even worse...

Any help would be really appreciated :)
 
wispwest
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:13 am

I really hope the official 5.0 ROS rolls out soon. I can't wait to try this on some of my major backhaul links, just can't risk BETA on them!
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:44 am

better don't risk. to prevent some trouble. we test 5.0beta2 on pc before. but it cannot be installed on pc. lot of troubles to rollback to 4.xx
 
frontiersteve
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:10 pm

Just curious. What are the max pps people are seeing with various boards. i.e. 411ah, 433ah, 600, 800. Just want to see how the cpu power and ram impact the ability of these types of connections pump out the packets. I gather that on a solid link one could see 90 to even 100 mb/s tcp using the boards with 10/100 ports. Now I would like to see what the max is packets at various packet sizes. (64 on up to 1500). I personally have seen as high as 50k pps (aggregate) using 64 byte packets on an n link using r52n 411ah.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:00 pm

The bandwith in WDS (ap bridge/wds - ap bridge-wds) mode is much less than in the mode of the ap bridge/station. When will it be fixed? VPLS not offer as WDS need to MESH.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:43 pm

The bandwith in WDS (ap bridge/wds - ap bridge-wds) mode is much less than in the mode of the ap bridge/station. When will it be fixed?
I dont think it can be fixed, you are splitting radio time 50/50 between AP and STATION. If you make it station its 100% dedicated to connecting to AP, if it's AP BRIDGE WDS then its 50% station, 50% AP.
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:02 am

I dont think it can be fixed, you are splitting radio time 50/50 between AP and STATION. If you make it station its 100% dedicated to connecting to AP, if it's AP BRIDGE WDS then its 50% station, 50% AP.
So using MPLS bridge setup should eliminate this problem?
 
ste
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:23 am

Yes. On nearly the same Hardware. But they do not implement DFS so i am
Not allowed to use it.
 
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chvdr
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:31 am

what max distance you test
with n-draft m5
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:54 pm

What about latency and jitter?
I tested rocket m5, but the latency was high and jitter was crazy..
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:16 pm

The bandwith in WDS (ap bridge/wds - ap bridge-wds) mode is much less than in the mode of the ap bridge/station. When will it be fixed?
I dont think it can be fixed, you are splitting radio time 50/50 between AP and STATION. If you make it station its 100% dedicated to connecting to AP, if it's AP BRIDGE WDS then its 50% station, 50% AP.
Thank you for your reply. Well, how do I optimize the network, if I use a dual radio - one module to access and one module for backhaul? MPLS does not help here.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:56 pm

Hi , I am new one im mikrotik. Im using RB433 with N wifi card and 5ghz double antena. I use it only for 1 km and i think i need to attenuation signal. Now Its working like before with single 5ghz antena with G wifi card. I dont find where i can attenuation signal, can somebody help me ?


im using rocketdish dual antena http://wificentrum.sk/dual-polalarizacn ... _d734.html
 
doush
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:55 pm

what max distance you test
with n-draft m5
Its written there on the main page 2.3km.
 
charliebrown
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:57 pm

Its worth noting for people having bandwidth issue during testing that doing bandwidth tests from router to router caps out at around 30mbit for anything below RB433AH. During our testing we found that RB433 plain can only receive 30mbit, Changing to a 433AH resulted in more bandwidth but even than a RB433 will cap out at around 70mbit

Now for a question, Is there a reason for a single chain N link not to go into 40mhz? We've set HT extension channel but it wont go past 65mbit-HT and signal only shows a max of HT20-8 even tho the signal is -65
 
ste
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Its worth noting for people having bandwidth issue during testing that doing bandwidth tests from router to router caps out at around 30mbit for anything below RB433AH. During our testing we found that RB433 plain can only receive 30mbit, Changing to a 433AH resulted in more bandwidth but even than a RB433 will cap out at around 70mbit

Now for a question, Is there a reason for a single chain N link not to go into 40mhz? We've set HT extension channel but it wont go past 65mbit-HT and signal only shows a max of HT20-8 even tho the signal is -65
Low Signal or Channel on the Edge of the Band.
 
charliebrown
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:16 pm

Figured it out, the 5.0 beta doesnt like 40mhz. Downgrading to 4.10 and I'm pushing 70mbit TCP thru the link
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:28 pm

Hi , I am new one im mikrotik. Im using RB433 with N wifi card and 5ghz double antena. I use it only for 1 km and i think i need to attenuation signal. Now Its working like before with single 5ghz antena with G wifi card. I dont find where i can attenuation signal, can somebody help me ?
Simplest way to do is to turn down the output power to minimum.
If that is not enough, point your antennas a little to the sky.
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:44 pm

Maybe some hint what signal to look for? I mean in particular numbers.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:11 am

If you use the R52Hnm card's with only 1 pigtail but a tech enables both chains are you likely to damage the card in anyway? Have had a tech telling me they enable both chains despite only having 1 chain antenna's
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:19 am

Maybe some hint what signal to look for? I mean in particular numbers.
-55 to -65 is good from my experience
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:27 am

PC-Lan-433AH--------34km--------RB800
11n.JPG
TCP Test is done from pc connected with 100mbit lan
2 Chains Nstreme
soon will change 433AH with RB800 also I'll fix Signal Strength (now -66/-67) I hope Ill Get 140Mbit Tcp



1. On RB800/RB433 side I have to enable TxPower TAB all rates fix (in this case is set 20Db) with out this link disconnect/reconnect (3-5min)
2. I have to set manual TX/RX Rates HT MCS MCS10-MCS15 with out setting link after 10-15min TX/RX rates goes down 39Mbit-Ht/52Mbit-HT
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:56 pm

please post script with full config
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:16 pm

Just TX Power set on 20DB on both sides
HT Extension Chanel:above control and HT AMPDU Priorities 5,6,7.
+Nstreme
Everything else on default
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:16 pm

thanks
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:18 pm

so its just 1 chain or 2
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:05 pm

so its just 1 chain or 2
2
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:20 am

what anttens dual pol or two single ones
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:32 pm

Look at this xezen
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... is#p178990
This was my old link I made some modification just I update longest part od the Link 34km to 11N and with N it works more better and more stable (also without PC's I put RB's)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:39 pm

I'm debating purchasing an R52Hn over an R52n to use inside an alix board. Which would be better to use for just a single AP inside a home? Are they both equally supported as far as open source drivers go (ath9k)?

I'm looking for the best performance (i.e. near 100mbit tcp bandwidth).
 
mcrose
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:33 pm

Is the configuration at http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/802.11n_Setup_Guide still valid? The wiki article's ~10 months old at this point and there's been a lot of changes to wireless behavior in 4.x from looking at the changelogs.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:18 pm

I´ve tested some links too and here are my results.
Exe´s config

1. link 600m, -49dB, 110cm offset antenas, dual polarity, 20MHz channel, very long signal cable, very bad enviroment (over 100 ap on scan list). R52n RB800-RB433AH
35Mb/s Full Duplex over iperf

802.11a has only 10Mb/s Full Duplex

great one

2. link 1,9km, -60dB, dual polarity jrc 24dB, 20Mhz channel, noisy enviroment (25-30 ap on scan list) R52n RB411AH-RB433AH
32Mb/s

very good too

but...

3. link to 6. link
1km, dual polarity jrc24 or jrc 29, 20MHz channel, normal enviroment (15-25 ap on scan list)R52n 433AH-433AH

2-8Mb/s Full duplex for no reason. Signal was ok, ccq no...

i´ve spent many hours changing antenas, cables and wireless cards but nothing helped.
So i bought sr71-15 replaced them and had 25Mb FullDuplex.

then i started testing r52n and found something very strange...
all r52n has good signal value on the link, but only a few of them were able to run at 30Mb/s Full Duplex. After 30 hours of outdoor testing i found that 48 r52n were damaged.. speed about 5Mb/s, 16 r52n were able run at 25-27Mb/s, and only last 36 from 100 were able run at 35Mb/s Full Duplex (tested on exe´s config on 1 chain, 40MHz channel)

the worst thing about this is that there isn´t other way to figure out which one is good a which one isnt. (or i didn´t found one yet)

So if you have problems with your link and you´ve tried everything, including replace wireless card, don´t be so sure that new ones are fine.
 
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Re: 802.11n , 540 Mbits in the status page

Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:29 pm

Hi all,

We too are tinkering around with the N settings with and without N-streme.

Now we are testing a great x86 board with 5.0 beta 6 becauzse that supports our gbits ethernet ports.

What we are looking for is a steady 100 Mbits FDX.
We now have something strange but i am sure it is just a bug.
We have 2 r52Hn cards per board and dual n-streme setup.

We get a lovely 540 Mbits data rate each way:)

And as for TCP speeds we are hitting 120 Mbits in separate directions (send or receive) and only 85 in both. Whick is not much better than a 5 Ghz- A dual n-streme.
Our CPU is not the issue as it is enjoying itself at 55%

Any ideas or should we for now just go back to 1 radio card and try to get 80 Mbits FDX.
I have the printscreen below. it WAS fun to see the datarates:) even though it did nothing for the performance

hope to hear from you

Ec
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samjan
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:24 pm

So now, i understand, why Mikrotik don't write normal drivers for SR71-15 :(
They don't need the clients, who loved to use Mikrotik hard&soft...
So we start t use Rockets, and each days we found that it works really
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:25 pm

So now, i understand, why Mikrotik don't write normal drivers for SR71-15 :(
They don't need the clients, who loved to use Mikrotik hard&soft...
So we start t use Rockets, and each days we found that it works really
Yip unfortunately
 
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awacenter
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:04 pm

Hi forum!

We have been performing some tests with 802.11n+R52n cards and although we got excelent results when short distances and good (very good) signals, as the link gets longer and poorer N behaves quite worse than simple A (at least on 5GHz).

This is the scenario:
17km link
BASE: RB433 (v4.10) + R52n + Ubiquiti Dual Polarization (http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/RocketDish_Datasheet.pdf)
STATION: Same equipment than BASE

These are the results:
Frequent disconnections even when not performing bandwidth tests
Decent signal but very poor bandwidth
No improvments as frecquency changes
No improvments either with different configurations (nstreme, wds, 5Gh-only-N, a,n, 5Ghz, etc)
No improvments when using different polarization combinations on HT Chains.
CPU goes to 100% on both BASE and STATION when performing TCP BandwidthTest (Not UDP)

These are the screenshots:
BASE-Wireless:
Image
BASE-HT:
Image
BASE-HT MCS:
Image
BASE-WDS:
Image
BASE-NSTREME:
Image
BASE-Signal:
Image
STATION-Signal:
Image
BASE-BandwidthTest UDP:
Image
BASE-BandwidthTest TCP:
Image

Any suggestions will be welcome.

Thanks in advance.
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:50 pm

Hi forum!

We have been performing some tests with 802.11n+R52n cards and although we got excelent results when short distances and good (very good) signals, as the link gets longer and poorer N behaves quite worse than simple A (at least on 5GHz).

This is the scenario:
17km link
BASE: RB433 (v4.10) + R52n + Ubiquiti Dual Polarization (http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/RocketDish_Datasheet.pdf)
STATION: Same equipment than BASE

These are the results:
Frequent disconnections even when not performing bandwidth tests
Decent signal but very poor bandwidth
No improvments as frecquency changes
No improvments either with different configurations (nstreme, wds, 5Gh-only-N, a,n, 5Ghz, etc)
No improvments when using different polarization combinations on HT Chains.
CPU goes to 100% on both BASE and STATION when performing TCP BandwidthTest (Not UDP)

These are the screenshots:
BASE-Wireless:
Image
BASE-HT:
Image
BASE-HT MCS:
Image
BASE-WDS:
Image
BASE-NSTREME:
Image
BASE-Signal:
Image
STATION-Signal:
Image
BASE-BandwidthTest UDP:
Image
BASE-BandwidthTest TCP:
Image

Any suggestions will be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

THe tx/Rx ccq is very bad.

THe signal strength will be better id it is neg 60 - 62 dB

Looks like the distance is to long for the equipment or the antennas could not be properly aligned.

I would first start by aliging the antennas what length.

Send me you google earth place mark then I calculate you the signal it must be and give you a graph of the path
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:27 pm

Hey Newbie,

Thanks for your quick response. The antennas might not be well-aligned but still I think bandwidth is too poor for the signal got. Anyhow we'll be pleased you could send those info to us. Link placemarks below:

BASE-Lat: 39.519716°
BASE-Long: -0.466781°

STATION-Lat: 39.381389°
STATION-Long: -0.574501°

Best regards.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:43 pm

Hey Newbie,

Thanks for your quick response. The antennas might not be well-aligned but still I think bandwidth is too poor for the signal got. Anyhow we'll be pleased you could send those info to us. Link placemarks below:

BASE-Lat: 39.519716°
BASE-Long: -0.466781°

STATION-Lat: 39.381389°
STATION-Long: -0.574501°

Best regards.
-0.574501
This is your problem :

there is no clear line of site
please give me your email address I will send you infgo
 
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awacenter
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:56 pm

Sorry I didn't mention we have 18 meters towers at both places. My email: ingenieria@grupoawa.es

Tons of thanks.
Hey Newbie,

Thanks for your quick response. The antennas might not be well-aligned but still I think bandwidth is too poor for the signal got. Anyhow we'll be pleased you could send those info to us. Link placemarks below:

BASE-Lat: 39.519716°
BASE-Long: -0.466781°

STATION-Lat: 39.381389°
STATION-Long: -0.574501°

Best regards.
-0.574501
This is your problem :

there is no clear line of site
please give me your email address I will send you infgo
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:37 pm

Hello

I got a problem with r52n cards, If I set the data rates to configure or default, the maximal HT rate which achieved is HT20-8, and its dont achieved any HT40 data rates..so the maximal TCP throughput is 44Mbit FDX. I try to upgarde from 4.10 to 4.11 but still nothing, try to reset the router but it didnt helped. I'm thing that I use the right configuration, couse same place exectly same hardware is working at the moment with more than 108 mbit tcp throughput.. FDX, I also try to change the cards with other r52n-s

Heres my config at point A
/interface wireless
set 0 ack-timeout=dynamic adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no \
    antenna-gain=0 area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g="" \
    basic-rates-b="" comment="" compression=no country=no_country_set \
    default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=\
    0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=no disabled=\
    no disconnect-timeout=3s frame-lifetime=0 frequency=4920 frequency-mode=\
    superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0 \
    ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0 \
    ht-extension-channel=above-control ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 \
    ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 ht-txchains=0,1 \
    hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
    hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 \
    max-station-count=2007 mode=ap-bridge mtu=1500 name=\
    wlan1 on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default \
    periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both \
    proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 rate-set=\
    configured scan-list=default,4920 security-profile=default ssid=\
    test station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 \
    supported-rates-a/g="" supported-rates-b="" tx-power=10 tx-power-mode=\
    all-rates-fixed update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 \
    wds-default-bridge=bridge1 wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no \
    wds-mode=dynamic wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan1 comment="" disable-csma=no enable-nstreme=yes \
    enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3200 framer-policy=none

and the config at point B:
/interface wireless
set 0 ack-timeout=dynamic adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no \
    antenna-gain=0 area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g="" \
    basic-rates-b="" comment="" compression=no country=no_country_set \
    default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=\
    0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=no disabled=\
    no disconnect-timeout=3s frame-lifetime=0 frequency=4920 frequency-mode=\
    superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0 \
    ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0 \
    ht-extension-channel=above-control ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 \
    ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 ht-txchains=0,1 \
    hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
    hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 \
    max-station-count=2007 mode=station-wds mtu=1500 name=\
    wlan2 on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default \
    periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both \
    proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 rate-set=\
    configured scan-list=default,4920 security-profile=default ssid=\
    test station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 \
    supported-rates-a/g="" supported-rates-b="" tx-power=15 tx-power-mode=\
    all-rates-fixed update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 \
    wds-default-bridge=bridge1 wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no \
    wds-mode=dynamic wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan2 comment="" disable-csma=yes enable-nstreme=yes \
    enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3000 framer-policy=dynamic-size
Signal level is: -60/-63
noise-floor: -122dBm

Anyone see the same problem? And got any solution for this? :)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:34 pm

I'm still waiting for things to sort out with 11n in Mikrotik. Currently I have more luck with turbo links.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:24 pm

then i started testing r52n and found something very strange...
all r52n has good signal value on the link, but only a few of them were able to run at 30Mb/s Full Duplex. After 30 hours of outdoor testing i found that 48 r52n were damaged.. speed about 5Mb/s, 16 r52n were able run at 25-27Mb/s, and only last 36 from 100 were able run at 35Mb/s Full Duplex (tested on exe´s config on 1 chain, 40MHz channel)

the worst thing about this is that there isn´t other way to figure out which one is good a which one isnt. (or i didn´t found one yet)

So if you have problems with your link and you´ve tried everything, including replace wireless card, don´t be so sure that new ones are fine.
Anyone from mikrotik care to comment on this? Seems pretty serious!
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:31 pm

then i started testing r52n and found something very strange...
all r52n has good signal value on the link, but only a few of them were able to run at 30Mb/s Full Duplex. After 30 hours of outdoor testing i found that 48 r52n were damaged.. speed about 5Mb/s, 16 r52n were able run at 25-27Mb/s, and only last 36 from 100 were able run at 35Mb/s Full Duplex (tested on exe´s config on 1 chain, 40MHz channel)

the worst thing about this is that there isn´t other way to figure out which one is good a which one isnt. (or i didn´t found one yet)

So if you have problems with your link and you´ve tried everything, including replace wireless card, don´t be so sure that new ones are fine.
Anyone from mikrotik care to comment on this? Seems pretty serious!
how was that test done? speed is not an indication of card quality. it will depend on current conditions of the link, how many people use the link, if there is any traffic on it, etc. You would have to do the test in controlled environment with no interference and no connected devices to be even close to good testing conditions.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:52 pm

then i started testing r52n and found something very strange...
all r52n has good signal value on the link, but only a few of them were able to run at 30Mb/s Full Duplex. After 30 hours of outdoor testing i found that 48 r52n were damaged.. speed about 5Mb/s, 16 r52n were able run at 25-27Mb/s, and only last 36 from 100 were able run at 35Mb/s Full Duplex (tested on exe´s config on 1 chain, 40MHz channel)

the worst thing about this is that there isn´t other way to figure out which one is good a which one isnt. (or i didn´t found one yet)

So if you have problems with your link and you´ve tried everything, including replace wireless card, don´t be so sure that new ones are fine.
Anyone from mikrotik care to comment on this? Seems pretty serious!
how was that test done? speed is not an indication of card quality. it will depend on current conditions of the link, how many people use the link, if there is any traffic on it, etc. You would have to do the test in controlled environment with no interference and no connected devices to be even close to good testing conditions.
THis is the frustration part of Mikrotik . They have the same attitude as Micro Soft. Only they know.

Thereality is that if we install a different link on the same frequency using Motoral equipment we can get up to 200 Mb/sec

The reason why I bother to log these issues is to support MY not to critisize. I normaly did not log faults etc just used a different supplier.

Sorry for bothering you guus and go to this trouble of trying to get systems working I will revert to my previous method of working

THanks
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:56 pm

Is it so hard to write some details about the issues instead of just complaining that some of your cards are 'bad'?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:35 pm

Is it so hard to write some details about the issues instead of just complaining that some of your cards are 'bad'?
No not at all. The main problem for me is heat. an then dealing with Scoop. WHatr we have is it over heats and then it fails.

The speed getting 80 - 100 Mb/sec is super for me and the software is stable. The links are staying up for days and I am happy with the speed.

I truly want to help and contribute

I do understand that it is not a full duplex that is why we have a radio for rx and on for tx.
We have returned a 411 to poynting direct in Cpt where the heat unsoldered the connector. You can check it with them.
We could have resoldered the connector to the PC board.

We took the radio to scoop they tested it and no fault find. To scared to put it into the network again.

I can give you a login on to our router I can install more equipment that we can test and do what ever you guys need to do so it is not that I don't want to give more info ...
I can get stickers that change coulor with temp it is a good indication of where the temp stopped. THat can proof the temp prob.

My main prob is not getting the heat sorted and as a designer I understand that that is not easy as it comes and goes.

To me 70 M is super
moz-screenshot-16.png
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Lakis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:03 pm

Is it so hard to write some details about the issues instead of just complaining that some of your cards are 'bad'?
No not at all. The main problem for me is heat. an then dealing with Scoop. WHatr we have is it over heats and then it fails.

The speed getting 80 - 100 Mb/sec is super for me and the software is stable. The links are staying up for days and I am happy with the speed.

I truly want to help and contribute

I do understand that it is not a full duplex that is why we have a radio for rx and on for tx.
We have returned a 411 to poynting direct in Cpt where the heat unsoldered the connector. You can check it with them.
We could have resoldered the connector to the PC board.

We took the radio to scoop they tested it and no fault find. To scared to put it into the network again.

I can give you a login on to our router I can install more equipment that we can test and do what ever you guys need to do so it is not that I don't want to give more info ...
I can get stickers that change coulor with temp it is a good indication of where the temp stopped. THat can proof the temp prob.

My main prob is not getting the heat sorted and as a designer I understand that that is not easy as it comes and goes.

To me 70 M is super
moz-screenshot-16.png
Play little with Tx Power put it 18,19 or 20 dBm see what's happen with this signal level of course if everything else is ok u can rich 120-140 TCP
Last edited by Lakis on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:05 pm

Is it so hard to write some details about the issues instead of just complaining that some of your cards are 'bad'?
No not at all. The main problem for me is heat. an then dealing with Scoop. WHatr we have is it over heats and then it fails.

The speed getting 80 - 100 Mb/sec is super for me and the software is stable. The links are staying up for days and I am happy with the speed.

I truly want to help and contribute

I do understand that it is not a full duplex that is why we have a radio for rx and on for tx.
We have returned a 411 to poynting direct in Cpt where the heat unsoldered the connector. You can check it with them.
We could have resoldered the connector to the PC board.

We took the radio to scoop they tested it and no fault find. To scared to put it into the network again.

I can give you a login on to our router I can install more equipment that we can test and do what ever you guys need to do so it is not that I don't want to give more info ...
I can get stickers that change coulor with temp it is a good indication of where the temp stopped. THat can proof the temp prob.

My main prob is not getting the heat sorted and as a designer I understand that that is not easy as it comes and goes.

To me 70 M is super
moz-screenshot-16.png
Play little with Tx Power put it 18,19 or 20 dBm see what's hapen

Will do
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:06 pm

So you are running the BT test from the router itself?
:shock:
 
Lakis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

So you are running the BT test from the router itself?
:shock:
Problem is his TX/RX rate is too low
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:14 pm

no, it's completely normal. signal is good, this means card is fine. the environment should be at fault for not so good speed.

and playing with tx-power is not a good idea also
 
Lakis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:16 pm

mtactualtraf.JPG
This is not btest this is actual internet traffic (not using Nv2 just nstreeme)
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Last edited by Lakis on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:17 pm

this is exactly the type of action that will cause the mentioned card problems. on lower rates this is fine, but on higher rates this power is too much and could damage the card.

only use "card rates" when changing power.
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:19 pm

So you are running the BT test from the router itself?
:shock:
Problem is his TX/RX rate is too low
Yes I do enough CPU power to do it

moz-screenshot-18.png
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Lakis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:20 pm

normis But if I put TX Power on default TX/RX rates drop to HT-20
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:21 pm

get bigger antenna instead. or at least use card rates, not all rates fixed.
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:35 pm

Erastus, please stop sending screenshots to support. Use the "Upload attachment" form below your post text.
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:36 pm

get bigger antenna instead. or at least use card rates, not all rates fixed.



I send you a google earth .

The link is 8.5 Km I have two 30dB dishes and running ht1 and ht2. THe distance is 9 km I also send you an screen with the freq ussage and the scan stats.
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:39 pm

then i started testing r52n and found something very strange...
all r52n has good signal value on the link, but only a few of them were able to run at 30Mb/s Full Duplex. After 30 hours of outdoor testing i found that 48 r52n were damaged.. speed about 5Mb/s, 16 r52n were able run at 25-27Mb/s, and only last 36 from 100 were able run at 35Mb/s Full Duplex (tested on exe´s config on 1 chain, 40MHz channel)

the worst thing about this is that there isn´t other way to figure out which one is good a which one isnt. (or i didn´t found one yet)

So if you have problems with your link and you´ve tried everything, including replace wireless card, don´t be so sure that new ones are fine.
Anyone from mikrotik care to comment on this? Seems pretty serious!
how was that test done? speed is not an indication of card quality. it will depend on current conditions of the link, how many people use the link, if there is any traffic on it, etc. You would have to do the test in controlled environment with no interference and no connected devices to be even close to good testing conditions.
i´ve tested od 400m link. Link si working fine for 3 months nonstop (my house) so i´m testing there.
Speed was tested by bandwidth test between rb433ah in tcp. I know that speed is not indication of card quality, but thats the only differance between them. CCQ is fine until full load si running.

Another part of this funny story are reclamations of these cards :)
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:43 pm

get bigger antenna instead. or at least use card rates, not all rates fixed.



I send you a google earth .

The link is 8.5 Km I have two 30dB dishes and running ht1 and ht2. THe distance is 9 km I also send you an screen with the freq ussage and the scan stats.
why not post here?
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:55 pm

get bigger antenna instead. or at least use card rates, not all rates fixed.



I send you a google earth .

The link is 8.5 Km I have two 30dB dishes and running ht1 and ht2. THe distance is 9 km I also send you an screen with the freq ussage and the scan stats.
why not post here?

THought it must go through you guys first as some other support channels
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:05 pm

I see you use 4900-5200 frequencies. Most antennas have been made for 5800 or 5400, look at the antenna radiation patterns. You will also see that the wireless card is calibrated to run at it's full power at 5800.

If you can't change antenna, and you have no choice but to use such frequency, maybe you can upgrade to v5beta and try Nv2 which is what the mentioned motorola uses (TDMA)
 
Erastus
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:08 pm

I see you use 4900-5200 frequencies. Most antennas have been made for 5800 or 5400, look at the antenna radiation patterns. You will also see that the wireless card is calibrated to run at it's full power at 5800.

If you can't change antenna, and you have no choice but to use such frequency, maybe you can upgrade to v5beta and try Nv2 which is what the mentioned motorola uses (TDMA)


Thanks I did not know the centre freq of the card is 5800 MANY THANKS!! THe dish is quit linear from 4900 but I will do that immediately !!!
 
bney
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:31 am

When I attempt to adjust down the power levels of the r52N cards, the interface stops registering clients and often requires a reboot of the router to get it back. This sounds like a bug to me. I need to bring down the power as the other radio units in the mesh are seeing signals in the 40's and 50's from each other. This is resulting in a ccq of less than 10%. not real impressive.

Since this is a mesh, the radio units are all running dual omni's and are about 1500 feet apart in wooded terrain.
Any suggestions on how to raise the ccq would be appreciated.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:40 am

We never experianced that are you using 2.4 or 5G ?

Howmany stations how far appart?

This is strange we can def lower the power with out any problems. But then why use an Hn and lower the power?
 
bney
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:30 pm

We are using 2.4 only. We are lowering the power because the levels are in hte -30 to -45 range. Absolutely too hot. Radios really like to see signals in the -60 range. The terrain is a highly wooded area so we used the higher capable radio cards.

There is one thing we are changing today however. When we set this up we used a single radio to carry the mesh and to connect the clients. We are replacing the MT nodes today with dual radio units so that the mesh can have its own channel and the customers can connect on their own AP. Maybe its just too many things talking in the same space.
 
frontiersteve
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:52 am

Has anyone had any experience using these enclosure/antennas:WX572003 from wispmax? Seems like another option for mimo client antenna.
 
bney
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:09 am

It looks like a reasonable enclosure except for the fact that it includes mmcx connectors rather than the u.fl type that the mikrotik R52 series cards come with. That would be a show stopper to me
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:59 pm

Hello

I got some time to, investigate the problem, so I climb up and see that one of the cables are full of water on the connector side. When I replace it, the signal didnt change but the ccq goes up to 99/99% and the bandwidth back to 160mbit/tcp/one way

Thanks
Hello

I got a problem with r52n cards, If I set the data rates to configure or default, the maximal HT rate which achieved is HT20-8, and its dont achieved any HT40 data rates..so the maximal TCP throughput is 44Mbit FDX. I try to upgarde from 4.10 to 4.11 but still nothing, try to reset the router but it didnt helped. I'm thing that I use the right configuration, couse same place exectly same hardware is working at the moment with more than 108 mbit tcp throughput.. FDX, I also try to change the cards with other r52n-s

Heres my config at point A
/interface wireless
set 0 ack-timeout=dynamic adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no \
    antenna-gain=0 area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g="" \
    basic-rates-b="" comment="" compression=no country=no_country_set \
    default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=\
    0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=no disabled=\
    no disconnect-timeout=3s frame-lifetime=0 frequency=4920 frequency-mode=\
    superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0 \
    ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0 \
    ht-extension-channel=above-control ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 \
    ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 ht-txchains=0,1 \
    hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
    hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 \
    max-station-count=2007 mode=ap-bridge mtu=1500 name=\
    wlan1 on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default \
    periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both \
    proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 rate-set=\
    configured scan-list=default,4920 security-profile=default ssid=\
    test station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 \
    supported-rates-a/g="" supported-rates-b="" tx-power=10 tx-power-mode=\
    all-rates-fixed update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 \
    wds-default-bridge=bridge1 wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no \
    wds-mode=dynamic wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan1 comment="" disable-csma=no enable-nstreme=yes \
    enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3200 framer-policy=none

and the config at point B:
/interface wireless
set 0 ack-timeout=dynamic adaptive-noise-immunity=none allow-sharedkey=no \
    antenna-gain=0 area="" arp=enabled band=5ghz-onlyn basic-rates-a/g="" \
    basic-rates-b="" comment="" compression=no country=no_country_set \
    default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=\
    0 default-forwarding=yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=no disabled=\
    no disconnect-timeout=3s frame-lifetime=0 frequency=4920 frequency-mode=\
    superchannel frequency-offset=0 hide-ssid=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0 \
    ht-amsdu-limit=8192 ht-amsdu-threshold=8192 ht-basic-mcs=mcs-0 \
    ht-extension-channel=above-control ht-guard-interval=any ht-rxchains=0,1 \
    ht-supported-mcs=mcs-0,mcs-1,mcs-13,mcs-14,mcs-15 ht-txchains=0,1 \
    hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled hw-protection-mode=none \
    hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 \
    max-station-count=2007 mode=station-wds mtu=1500 name=\
    wlan2 on-fail-retry-time=100ms periodic-calibration=default \
    periodic-calibration-interval=60 preamble-mode=both \
    proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 rate-set=\
    configured scan-list=default,4920 security-profile=default ssid=\
    test station-bridge-clone-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 \
    supported-rates-a/g="" supported-rates-b="" tx-power=15 tx-power-mode=\
    all-rates-fixed update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=50-150 \
    wds-default-bridge=bridge1 wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no \
    wds-mode=dynamic wmm-support=disabled
/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan2 comment="" disable-csma=yes enable-nstreme=yes \
    enable-polling=yes framer-limit=3000 framer-policy=dynamic-size
Signal level is: -60/-63
noise-floor: -122dBm

Anyone see the same problem? And got any solution for this? :)
 
devchaos
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:15 am

My results:
800m link
x86 775 Celeron 1600mhz
r52n
dual polarity 31dB parabolic
4m LMR-400 pigtails
mpls bridge
In future will try to upgrade 12km 802.11a nstreme turbo link )
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mindaugasr
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:13 am

Hello,
We have p2p link, rbb 433 ah + r52n on both sides. We use 4.6 firmware with exe config (nstreme + hw retries 15 + wds) it works prety good, stable CCQ average 97-99% connection speeds 270/270 mbps real speeds also pretty goods. We try to upgrade to 5.0rc1 and we got poorly results with nv2 CCQ not working, connetion rates striking from 160 mbps to 270 mbps very unstable, ping on idle link 3X !!!!!! higher 3-4 ms on idle link, on 4.6 firmware we have stable ~1ms link, speedtest also shows not stabdle results. Configuration i same only we changed in 5.0rc1 to use NV2.

I want ask somebody have success results from 5.0rc1? Or better today use 4.6? With 4.11 also we got bad results, ccq striking, connection rates droping and so on. I think 4.6 is best for 802.11n with mikrotik.

Thanks for reply
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:24 am

ping on idle link 3X !!!!!! higher 3-4 ms on idle link, on 4.6 firmware we have stable ~1ms link,
Throughput and CCQ in separate issue than PING.

All of you be aware that frames in NV2 are time-based (2ms default) so if you send a echo request reply could be replied in next frame (2-4) ms + additional delay from buffers, link etc. so 3-4 ms Delay using NV2 with default settings is good result.
 
mindaugasr
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:36 am

Hello,
Thanks for suggestion. Can you tell on 500 meter link i should use tdma-period-size: 1? or lower? To archyve best ping latency? Maybe someone have config with best latency and throuput on very short link with 5.0rc1 and nv2? Maybe some recommendation on short links?

Thanks
 
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802.11n --- WDS bridge --- Is the setup the same?

Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:22 am

I have done many WDS bridges (802.11a) which bridge an 802.1q tagged network. The 802.11a mikrotik config did not know anything about 802.1q. It just passwd the vlans and mac address back and fourth with no problem.

I am trying to setup my first mikrotik 802.n-only wds link. I am pretty sure i have the same configuration procedures as when I set up my 802.11a wds bridges. My problem is than when I activate the 802.11n wds link the remote network takes a dump and stops talking.

(Point A) cisco switch#1 --802.1q--> Trango bridge -->------------microwave link------------> Trango bridge --802.1q--> Cisco switch#2 (Point B)
(Point A) cisco switch#1 --802.1q--> Mikrotik N wds bridge -->-----microwave link-----> Mikrotik N wds bridge --802.1q--> Cisco switch#2 (Point B)

This did work well when my Mikrotik wds bridge was an 802.a configuration

Notes: I have verified MAC address and interfaces and bridge settings
Notes: My cisco spanning tree on my switches is normally configured to prefer the Mikrotik link.

Is WDS using a 802.11n configured exactly the same or is it different from 802.11a ?
Does WDS using 802.11n pass the 802.1q traffic or do I need to modify a packet size ?

This was working prior to replacing both mikrotiks with 802.11n cards

help

Tom Jones - A WISP up here in North Idaho
 
tritsako
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:15 am

Hi to all,

as I am new in 802.11n, I am trying to setup R52n to work with on sinlge poular feeder. Is this possible and how?

Thank you in advance.
Costas.
 
DJHiP
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:42 am

Long time reader, first time poster. You know how it goes :)

Been playing with 802.11n for the past year or so, but I thought i'd drop some info on the latest test link I setup.

Using RB711A's with 26dB Grid Antennas.

We're yet to fully align as our weather has been horrible, but the single stream 802.11n is amazing!

Routerboard 711A's on both ends
RouterOS 5.0rc5
3KM link (Yeah a short one, I know)
10MB/s throughput TCP.
NV2 enabled.
100mbit wifi.jpg
So far, very happy. I've previously tested R52Hn's with 60cm Solid Dual Polarity dishes and not gotten anywhere near these results (however, also not had ROS5.0 and NV2 to help.)

Only thing to note is, you can't do an onboard BTest (TCP) as the 711's run out of CPU before they run out of bandwidth space :) so the data was FTP traffic from PC to PC and HTTP download from PC to PC, both produced ~100mbit throghput!

So, very happy so far :)
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:46 am

you can also try the Btest tool from PC to PC, more control over the kind of traffic you test:
http://www.mikrotik.com/download/btest.exe
 
DJHiP
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:03 pm

you can also try the Btest tool from PC to PC, more control over the kind of traffic you test:
http://www.mikrotik.com/download/btest.exe
Yeah, it needs an update though so you can specify multiple streams instead of just running 10 instances :)

We also aligned today and now top 11.7MB/s :)

Need Gigabit 711A's 8)
 
taduikis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:26 pm

Well since 711 uses only single chain, I wouldn't expect more bandwidth than Ethernet can handle. Still, it's very good achievement with RB711 using 11n. Currently we are investigating possibility to upgrade our networks to 11n. Since most of CPEs are now RB711, and those that aren't can easily be upgraded simply by swapping 11n card in them. Only concern is the performance of 11n in P2MP mode. We are choking at current 11a speeds and todays bandwidth demands :(
 
Trisc
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:19 pm

For months I have tried to get laptops with wireless N cards to associate to Mikrotik router using 802.11n - but it seems only possible to connect using b/g.

I have tried endless configurations without success. Is Mikrotik 802.11n only designed to connect to other MTs? I can see no other threads other than people discussing point to point links.

What if we want to use MT exclusively for campus and building APs? Fine if we stick with b/g but otherwise we will have to go with UBNT or Ruckus kit for wireless N clients.

Has anyone managed to solve this? Please post configs!
 
KillerOPS
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:53 pm

just make sure you didn't enable nv2 or nstreme.
 
DJHiP
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Re: 802.11n

Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:19 am

For months I have tried to get laptops with wireless N cards to associate to Mikrotik router using 802.11n - but it seems only possible to connect using b/g.

I have tried endless configurations without success. Is Mikrotik 802.11n only designed to connect to other MTs? I can see no other threads other than people discussing point to point links.

What if we want to use MT exclusively for campus and building APs? Fine if we stick with b/g but otherwise we will have to go with UBNT or Ruckus kit for wireless N clients.

Has anyone managed to solve this? Please post configs!

Have you enabled the extension channel?

I would also be setting manual rates and disabling all the B and G channels so only the HT-MCS rates are allowable to run, then see if they can connect.

I've not played with any 2.4ghz N gear as its just too noisy where I live.
 
Trisc
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:41 am

No I didn't enable NV2 - it wasn't available until recently anyway and certainly not using Nstreme.

I have tried every combination of extension channels, HT-MCS settings but I cannot get PC or Mac wireless clients to connect on N only.

If this won't work we will abandon MT for future hotspot deployments.
 
ste
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:45 am

No I didn't enable NV2 - it wasn't available until recently anyway and certainly not using Nstreme.

I have tried every combination of extension channels, HT-MCS settings but I cannot get PC or Mac wireless clients to connect on N only.

If this won't work we will abandon MT for future hotspot deployments.
I've a centrino lap. It scales up to 11n rates for downloads but stays at 11a Rates (54Max) up.
Seems there are some incompatibilities.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:08 pm

If I'm not mistaken on some centrino laptops that is the max TX rate. They only use N for RX. Why i don't know... :(
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:29 pm

I've a centrino lap. It scales up to 11n rates for downloads but stays at 11a Rates (54Max) up.
Seems there are some incompatibilities.
And how long has N been available on Mikrotik? Seems like other manufacturers can get it right. Why not MT?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:21 am

We are working on a Point to Multipoint project with R52nh cards and have been having trouble getting 802.11n to work. 802.11a works great, even with 5Mhz channels. Would would like to try N to see if there is an improvement in range and/or speed, but have had trouble configuring (we have used 4.13, 4.11 and 4.9, with the same result)

We have also had issues getting nstreme or NV2 (on 4.13) working on either 802.11a or n. Any pointers we can use to help us out?
 
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nest
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:14 pm

Trisc - I'm not far from you at the moment - if you wish to, could you contact me direct? See below. Might be able to help?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:01 pm

- Each outdoor box has only one RB433AH, one R52n and 2 pigtails. At first I put the test board together with another RB433AH in the same box and the RF interferences caused the link to work perfectly only on tx side: the rx side was interferred by the other miniPCI radio even though their working frequencies were spaced by 400MHz!
I used RouterBoard 433ah r52n 2 wireless cards for this test.One wireless card I made as AP and and the second one as a client(without minipigtails and antennas) and the signal strengh was -56 db. I wrapped the wifi card with a layer of antistatic film, another layer of aluminum foil and the last layer of an antistatic film again. Then I checked the signal and I got to -72 db

This really helped.

I´ve also tested this on cards i use on normal links (wnc cm9) and nothing happened. Signal was always the same - around -71dB
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:56 pm

I've considered doing this as well. Could you post photos of the setup.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:36 pm

- Each outdoor box has only one RB433AH, one R52n and 2 pigtails. At first I put the test board together with another RB433AH in the same box and the RF interferences caused the link to work perfectly only on tx side: the rx side was interferred by the other miniPCI radio even though their working frequencies were spaced by 400MHz!
I used RouterBoard 433ah r52n 2 wireless cards for this test.One wireless card I made as AP and and the second one as a client(without minipigtails and antennas) and the signal strengh was -56 db. I wrapped the wifi card with a layer of antistatic film, another layer of aluminum foil and the last layer of an antistatic film again. Then I checked the signal and I got to -72 db

This really helped.

I´ve also tested this on cards i use on normal links (wnc cm9) and nothing happened. Signal was always the same - around -71dB
It seems like you could have some heat related issues with the cards wrapped up like that. Is this something you have ran in production?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:23 pm

dont know exactly how long i am using it, but at "Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:39 pm" i´ve written a post here with a few problems in 802.11n, so it has to be only few days after that. So lets wait for Summer :)

I do not have much of these cards.... maybe 20, but so far they are working just fine....

I just taked a photo of that.... sorry for the poor quality... cellphone photo...
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/3596/19022011097.jpg
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:58 am

Capture of RB SXT-5D in action.

224Mbps reached, but too bad this is in UDP test :p
TCP, still testing, which one gone bad, my laptop ethernet or SXT ethernet.
Cause i only able to transfer 60Mbps full duplex
Screenshot-3.png
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:33 am

And just how long was that linke? -55 signal so what, 100m max?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:45 am

t3rm,
any possibility of posting your configs here?
I have a R52n link setup here:
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 85#p250885
But struggle to get to these speeds.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:52 am

And just how long was that linke? -55 signal so what, 100m max?
I have a 25 mile link that's supposed to be -55. ;-)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:32 pm

please post config SXT 5Hnd ! Cant get them worked more than 135Mbps ... connected !
upgraded to 5.0rc10 but no result !
I wonder how to get 270Mbps and at least aprox 100Mbps duplex at least on the table.

one side
[admin@MikroTik] > interface wireless print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:84:66:1B arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=station-bridge ssid="MikroTik"
frequency=5240 band=5ghz-a/n channel-width=20mhz scan-list=default
wireless-protocol=nv2 wds-mode=disabled wds-default-bridge=none
wds-ignore-ssid=no bridge-mode=enabled default-authentication=yes
default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0
hide-ssid=no security-profile=default compression=no
other side
[admin@MikroTik] > interface wireless print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:0C:42:84:46:99 arp=enabled
interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=bridge ssid="MikroTik" frequency=5240
band=5ghz-a/n channel-width=20mhz scan-list=default wireless-protocol=nv2
wds-mode=disabled wds-default-bridge=none wds-ignore-ssid=no
bridge-mode=enabled default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes
default-ap-tx-limit=0 default-client-tx-limit=0 hide-ssid=no
security-profile=default compression=no
nv2_135.jpg
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:33 pm

Hello,

I have this configuration:

2x RB411 + R52n-M
1x RB433 + 2x R52n-M
4x GRID 5GHz 27dB

RB411 client ->((( ~14km )))->[5640MHz] AP RB433 [5540MHz]<-((( ~15km )))<- RB411 client
Mode is 5GHz-only-N (MCS 0 - 6)
Signal ~ -70

When I try TX bw test from ap to both of clients it works fine, but when I try RX to clients it goes up to 1 Mbps and link drops...

Does anyone have any idea what could it be?
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:13 pm

ottoshr, in order to get to 270mbps data-rate you need to use both chains on the SXT device (check if you have enabled them for TX and RX), and you need to enable the ht-extension-channel support.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:26 am

m4rk0, what software did you use to make those link drawings?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:36 am

m4rk0, what software did you use to make those link drawings?
Hello, we use this website for profiling http://www.alphimax.com/

Do You have any idea about my problem?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:38 pm

Hello @ all.

We are a small wisp in Germany. Im reading for a long time here in the forum. We have problems with N, too. The same Problem as chvdr.

Our Equipment at both Sites:

RB433AH + R52N + 2*30dBi Mars Antennas Flat Pannel (No DUAL!!) but in Dual-Polarisation (1 * hor + 1 * ver).

The 2 Antennas (H + V on both Sites) are mounted in a distance of 1 meter. The Distance of the 2 Points (AP and Client) are 11 Km.

The Line is TOP.


Thanks for help.....

joban

well you have the dual 29dbi for some time now
anyway what's of interest for me is a case study for use of MARS antennas with MK boards
what's the distance/ throughput that you where able to get
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:20 pm

Hi again,
I have 2 SXTs on 240m, no obstacels.

tx power set to all rates fixed - 0

frequency 5765
ht channel below control on both sides

route attenuation - 95dB
antena gain 16dBi
wifi card power 0dBm

so 0+16-95+16 gives mi signal strengh about -63dBm

so why i have these?
Ch0 -78/-87dBm
Ch1 -87/-87dBm

If i set tx-power to all rates fixed = 10

10+16-95+16 gives mi signal strengh about -53dBm

then i have
Ch0 -64/-66dBm
Ch1 -66/-67dBm

so 10dB on a power gives me this differences:
Ch0 14/21
Ch1 21/20

how is this possible?
ROS 5.0rc11

What is difference between SXT 5HnD and SXT-5D?
Image
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:22 pm

no difference, internal numbering was upgraded.
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

and can you tell me why 10 more dB in wireless card gives me 20 more on signal?

If you want i can give you access to them.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:55 pm

signal level in RouterOS is not a very exact number. if you increase power by one unit, it will not increase signal by one unit. It doesn't work that way.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:27 pm

Hi Normis,
relating to questions/issues mentioned in this thread and others regarding N...
Are you guys aware of issues and working on it, or do you believe MT N support (+for legacy devices) is working 100%

Just like to know if we can expect changes/improvements or is this as good as it gets?

Ekkas
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:07 pm

i just dont get it. It seems that sxts has a really bad wireless cards.
I´ve measured EIRP and got this:

EIRP power measurment
RouterBoard SXT
Measurment on 2m with 17dBi antenna
1dB power loss on connector between antenna and sond
Sond: R&S measuring up to 6GHz
Power loss on 2m: 54dB

Image

note: Prijmaci signal = Signal level on sond.

That means, that sxt´s output power is ok, but recieved signals are really weird
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:10 pm

how did you measure this?

what is "Signal level on sond."?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:35 pm

please provide more detailed description how did you measure it and make some pictures from the setup and the configuration.
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:15 pm

used RB SXT with ROS 5.0 rc11 - level 4, ap bridge, tx power - all rates fixed from -30 to 30
2 meters between the SXT and the antenna with known gain (54dB - environment attenuation)
antenna gain 17dB, 1dB power loss on connector between antenna and probe
probe: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/en/produc ... RPZ92.html


EIRP = antenna gain - cable loss + wireless card power
EIRP - environment attenuation + antenna gain (on sond) - cable loss = received signal
EIRP = cable loss + environment attenuation + received signal - antenna gain on sond
EU limit for EIRP is 30dBm, or 27dBm without DFS

for example - tx power +10
EIRP= 1dB + 54dB + (-8dB) - 17dB = 30dBm

So in other words...
if I set tx power to 10, i have 30dBm EIRP
environment attenuation = 32.4 + 20 x log frequency (MHz) + 20 x log range (km)
environment attenuation = 32.4 + 20 x log 5800 + 20 x log 0,23 = 32,4 + 75,27 -12,76
environment attenuation = 95dB

so it should be something like this
30dBm - 95dB + 16dB (other SXT antenna gain) = -49 dBm

but thats the problem....
ch0 60/62
ch1 58/60

~10dB is missing

If i set tx-power to 0
EIRP = 20dBm

so it should be something like this
20-95+16=59dBm

conlusion?
Image
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am

please note that for the receive signal values the noise floor levels also are taken into the account. And that is why maybe the rx signal is not so high.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:25 am

Noise floors that change wildly between ROS point releases and even packages!

Is there a reason RX signal is adjusted by NF?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:42 pm

Matess you have made many mistakes in your tests:

1. signal level in RouterOS is not precise, and can't be used for exact measurements, it's meant as a guide only, to compare better and worse situations, when aligning antenna

2. you said you used a "17 dbi known antenna" without specifying the manufacturer, and whether it's a certified antenna to be used for testing. many regular and cheap brand manufacturers specify incorrect gain and other parameters, this is not to be trusted unless it's a certified antenna made specifically for testing.

3. to be able to get any kind of accurate reading, the SXT should be fully transmitting 100% of the time at maximum possible duty cycle. otherwise, measurement is inaccurate
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:40 pm

It was measured in the college laboratory - University of Technology Brno Czech Rep.
They have much more better equipment, then i have.

And as you see... tx power regulation is good. But thats all....

please note that for the receive signal values the noise floor levels also are taken into the account. And that is why maybe the rx signal is not so high.
Yes, it would explain why after changing wifi cards for cards from Mikrotik signal deteriorates.

There are a few good cards for miniPCI express.

Are you planning some kind of a powerful little router with a miniPCI Express interface? RB800 is not very cheap. Something like 411AH should do the job.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sun May 22, 2011 10:48 pm

Hello guys,

I have questions on what kind of antennas are you all using for your tests and what can I expect when matching 802.11n with various antenna options?
(hardware being 433AH and R52n radio card, 5Ghz band)

1) sector antenna single polarization
2) sector antenna dual polarization (tx/rx vs tx,rx / tx,rx chains)
3) MIMO antenna (single or dual polarization)
 
Matess
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 23, 2011 10:43 am

I am using dual polarization jirous parabolic antenas
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-24-duplex up to 2km
http://en.jirous.com/antenna-5ghz/jrc-29-duplex up to 4km

longer distances, or huge interference on offset antenas (110cm) with nn-12 duplex
http://antenna.cz/nn-12_DUPLEX/nn-12_DUPLEX.pdf (sorry only in czech)

offset antenas costs half price then jirous 29, but it is really hard to install them (antenna focusing)

i´ve tried to use ubnt dual polarization dish.... waste of time.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 31, 2011 8:36 am

Hello,

I have this configuration:

2x RB411 + R52n-M
1x RB433 + 2x R52n-M
4x GRID 5GHz 27dB

RB411 client ->((( ~14km )))->[5640MHz] AP RB433 [5540MHz]<-((( ~15km )))<- RB411 client
Mode is 5GHz-only-N (MCS 0 - 6)
Signal ~ -70

When I try TX bw test from ap to both of clients it works fine, but when I try RX to clients it goes up to 1 Mbps and link drops...

Does anyone have any idea what could it be?

You share the program in which considered profiles
 
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Re: 802.11n

Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 pm

Thanks all for answer.

I think maybe using one chain can get little more bandwidth compare to 5Ghz turbo nstreme. Add one more antenna is little complicated need more space, stronger tower more cables is not option for now on that place. Also dual polarity antenna is usually solid parabolic antenna need stronger tower sometime time wind is very strong.
May be tested on some other place.

One more thanks to all.

Hi,

My name is carlos, i implemented a 80211n + MIMO 2x2 Wireless Network with diversity only, I used: RB 433AH, R52Hn, Routeos license 4.x, 60 mts. tower, in the Amazonic Jungle in Peru.

The results are 60 a 64 Mbps (data throughput)

A MIMO System, with STBC, Beamforming and Spatial Multiplexing are a very important solution for improve my network.

I am continue my research (PHD) about MIMO System.

I attach documents on round,
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