Solving 20km wireless link issues
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by opalit » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:28 am

This is something I am getting over my 6k and 1k links, it has been happening for about 5 weeks, always between 4:30 and 8:30 PM GMT, the spectrum anylyser shows interference across every single channel of the 5Ghz range, it is across the whole range and lasting about 5 mins max, it knocks out all the bridge links but not the AP's, except I am using Ubiquiti, that is why I have just purchased the Sextant radios to see if they are working any better.

Could it be the solar flares.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by shadowskippie » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:18 am

at a regular time and daily?

I have never known the sun to be that specific with it schedules.
Anyways, it may be something else, but i doubt it is the sun.

One question though, I'd like to know if those sextants work better then the UBNTs, i'm trying to get my boss to use the Mtik equipment over the UBNT equipment for transparent links
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by esfahanweb » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:48 pm

it's clear that sextants work better then the UBNT

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Basiley » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:17 pm

maybe something industrial/military ?
or commercial stuff improperly installed ?
If you had spectrum analyzer, GNURadio, WinRadio with this band module and etc - you can actually get some details.
but generally only feds had hardware and experience to locate this both in time, frequency and location.
maybe worth contacting your region communications suprevisors/inspectors.
generally NOBODY should shouting with SUCH transmission power on ISM bands. ever !![in civilian time]
talking about YOU case - such bands and such outputs - usual[similar] to radio-relay stations and [Especially!]for tropo-scatters. some mobile Tropo stations [usually military/gov't]use, despite small size - output measured in KW and even MW !! [but more densely occupied tropo was in K-Band]. Radars can do too, but they working on persistent basis, except some space-sensing and other specific, so wouldn't be related to timed/sheduled issues/troubles.

p..s
remind me one story when overloaded cell station with improperly installed[broken] bandpass filter severely cripple other stations nearby and even wi-fi in proximity.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by CyB3RMX » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:31 am

shadowskippie wrote:at a regular time and daily?

I have never known the sun to be that specific with it schedules.
Anyways, it may be something else, but i doubt it is the sun.

One question though, I'd like to know if those sextants work better then the UBNTs, i'm trying to get my boss to use the Mtik equipment over the UBNT equipment for transparent links


Im running Ubiquiti 90 degree 5GHz sectors 19dbi with 711GA-5HnD as an AP, and have hooked around 30 sextants and 15 SXT 5HnD and the farest SExtant its at 13.2 km from the ap and have a -72dBm and a 14mbps throghput. They work like charm with nv2 and dual chain enabled.
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sextant.PNG
This is the actual rate and signal of a sextant at 13.2 from the ap (ap uses a 19dbi sector antenna)
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by CyB3RMX » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:34 am

Basiley wrote:maybe something industrial/military ?
or commercial stuff improperly installed ?
If you had spectrum analyzer, GNURadio, WinRadio with this band module and etc - you can actually get some details.
but generally only feds had hardware and experience to locate this both in time, frequency and location.
maybe worth contacting your region communications suprevisors/inspectors.
generally NOBODY should shouting with SUCH transmission power on ISM bands. ever !![in civilian time]
talking about YOU case - such bands and such outputs - usual[similar] to radio-relay stations and [Especially!]for tropo-scatters. some mobile Tropo stations [usually military/gov't]use, despite small size - output measured in KW and even MW !! [but more densely occupied tropo was in K-Band]. Radars can do too, but they working on persistent basis, except some space-sensing and other specific, so wouldn't be related to timed/sheduled issues/troubles.

p..s
remind me one story when overloaded cell station with improperly installed[broken] bandpass filter severely cripple other stations nearby and even wi-fi in proximity.


You are replying to someone?... i get lost with your reply.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Degun » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:32 pm

Hi sir. I don't think i am suppose to say this but i am just sharing my knowledge out. may be it might help. Well i am a guy who is mostly with the surfboard but i have learned that the more distance a connection has from the centre of the company or i guess its called the portal, the less the speed you get. Even i have experienced it out. Just saying. Might something be like that.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Cal » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:17 am

...
Last edited by Cal on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by filipearaujo » Sat May 04, 2013 10:02 pm

never will work u need put more high the antenna is ground on the moutain fresnel

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Marconet » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:24 pm

In my years of experience I came through a very strange distortion unit An old tv. maybe in this small community someone has it ; this is not the answer but it might be try to elevate your antenna el little bit more

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by shayanjameel08 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:13 am

, i did test that just now. changed the settings....

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by EMS3702 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:37 pm

I completely agree with Steve Loomis, you have ignored what RadioMobile is telling you about the path; that it is impeded in the first and second fresnel and I could not tell for sure but may be more than that. Increase your height, clear at least your second fresnel and I would be dollars to doughnuts you will see your 20db.
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by xiaoman » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:55 am

I'm shooting thru a high voltage powerline about 0.5 miles away, is it possible thats affecting it? Maybe the power on that line was turned off that time it got better? I wouldn't think so, but just a long shot.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by WirelessRudy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:58 pm

xiaoman wrote:I'm shooting thru a high voltage powerline about 0.5 miles away, is it possible thats affecting it? Maybe the power on that line was turned off that time it got better? I wouldn't think so, but just a long shot.
I'v links running straight through low, medium and high voltage power lines. Some at distance, some relative close (<500mtr) and I have so far never noticed any disruption because of these.
The towers on the other hand, usually metal, can be a problem, specially when relative close (reflection of signals). So stay away from these...
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by CyB3RMX » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:06 pm

I don't think this has something to do with the distance. Signal should be around -51dBm with 28dBi antenna and 28dBm XR5 Transmitter.

I think the problem it's that the Fresnel zone isn't clear enough and you are having a knife effect just like mramos clearly said.

I think will help to put both antennas a little higher to clear the Fresnel zone completely.

Good day!
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by elinstech007 » Wed May 21, 2014 6:54 am

You need some AP, high gain atenna!

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by nhathaitrieu6 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:43 am

nope, the guy said he had 3. they were listed as satellite dishes, in the wrong category. he didn't know they were $280+ new :) these 3 were all new. cost me $300 total with shipping for 3 of them, yeee haw. The surplus seller said he got them from a lost shipping palette, so someone here is probably missing them : )
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by stratonetworks » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:58 pm

At the begining of this post, for me is clear that height of warehousse's roof antenna is too low. The relfexion induced by metals warehouse's roofs is a nightmare for me on most situasions that I experienced.

For example, lift two meters the pole is enough for gain signa quality. The same occurs if you carry the pole at the edge of warehouse. This is even enough fresnel zone.

Also, I see on some photos that AC machines are on LOS and near of antenna, bad escenario too.
··············································
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by networking » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:40 pm

which cisco ac can do this?

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by adawi » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:05 am

I think this distance we can not receive antenna except in case of strengthening the antenna
my site http://aladawy.org

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:05 am

Here is one for you....

I company I know had a 30+ mile DS3 microwave link somewhere in the low 6GHz band. A DS3 is a 45 Meg full duplex link. They replaced their old out-dated DS3 microwave equipment inside their buildings (the shelter side of the wave guide (think of a wave guide like a hollow antenna coax) with a set of dual-polarity Mikrotiks connected to the wave guides. The tower mounted dishes were 8 or 10 foot dishes. The new Mikrotiks linked at 30+ miles had a signal strength somewhere in the 30s.. WOW !!!

Kinda makes me wonder - how far this could actually work if you had line-of-site beyond several hundred miles with 10 foot dishes? Anybody know what the distance record is for a Mikrotik ? I wonder if it would be possible to take two huge dishes and point them at the moon and bounce off the surface and connect to another Mikrotik. Might as well try to blow away the world record (about 237 miles) and beat it by 1/2 million miles - lol.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by lindseynicole » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:49 am

No every noise in audio systems using wireless is due to interference, or even to the wireless equipment itself. Because interference is a known problem with wireless, it is common to blame it for unwanted audio noise.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Zorro » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:02 pm

lindseynicole wrote:No every noise in audio systems using wireless is due to interference, or even to the wireless equipment itself. Because interference is a known problem with wireless, it is common to blame it for unwanted audio noise.

which is making sense, btw. by basically nature of EMI itself.
for example - my cellphones (of two kind)affect my speakers very notably, during use(even when system send something or just SMS arrived ;) and new graphics card of my friend - cause similar sound issue for him. that was one kind of 970 GPU's AFAIK he was tried to switch exemplar, brand, but problem persist so he vent to 980ti, desperate. and its solved issue only partially according to him(i quote "i miss good times with R280" or something alike that).

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:45 pm

Zorro wrote:
lindseynicole wrote:No every noise in audio systems using wireless is due to interference, or even to the wireless equipment itself. Because interference is a known problem with wireless, it is common to blame it for unwanted audio noise.

which is making sense, btw. by basically nature of EMI itself.
for example - my cellphones (of two kind)affect my speakers very notably, during use(even when system send something or just SMS arrived ;) and new graphics card of my friend - cause similar sound issue for him. that was one kind of 970 GPU's AFAIK he was tried to switch exemplar, brand, but problem persist so he vent to 980ti, desperate. and its solved issue only partially according to him(i quote "i miss good times with R280" or something alike that).


Some good rules of thumb when it comes to electronic or radio noise out speakers:
- If the two devices are very close to each other, then you may get some cross-talk. If you double the distance, then you might cut the noise in half.
- Try putting a metal ferried bead around all cables (over the power cables and the speaker cables and all audio cables). The metal bead functions like a choke to block high-frequency noise.
- Try grounding everything possible.
- Very high power and/or very close side-by-side electronics will often have some from of noise to the other device.
- If possible, you might try flipping the power cord 180 degrees where it connects to the wall.

- If none of the above helps - then try these steps: Wrap everything in foil, ground the foil, put everything in separate solid metal trash cans with the lids on. Ooo - and also ground the trash cans using a #1 copper wire

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by BartoszP » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:58 am

TomjNorthIdaho wrote:Kinda makes me wonder - how far this could actually work if you had line-of-site beyond several hundred miles with 10 foot dishes? Anybody know what the distance record is for a Mikrotik ? I wonder if it would be possible to take two huge dishes and point them at the moon and bounce off the surface and connect to another Mikrotik. Might as well try to blow away the world record (about 237 miles) and beat it by 1/2 million miles - lol.

Polish students have managed to establish 250 km 5GHz link with Mikrotik and use Skype to verify quality.
http://mobirank.pl/2015/06/28/studenci- ... -z-250-km/
http://radiolinia.wireless-group.pwr.ed ... surements/
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by Zorro » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:16 pm

im afraid combating EMI is more complex than can be emplained by few rules. or even few books :)

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:54 pm

Zorro wrote:im afraid combating EMI is more complex than can be emplained by few rules. or even few books :)


Yea - I totally know what your are saying about noise.

I have one remote location where my APs are about 500 feet from a multi-million watt military radar over-the-horizon system. You want noise - this is it. Even an Ethernet cable tester connected to both ends of a cable (not connected to equipment) shows the cable is active !

To somewhat remedy the noise problem, I used grounded metal shield backings on my antennas to shield the antennas from the radar. I also had to run my shielded Ethernet cables down the tower where the cable is located on the opposite side of the radar - thus I am using the tower legs to help shield and block the microwave from getting to my Ethernet cables. I also had to ground the shields on my shielded Ethernet cables in multiple places. Also, the building at the bottom of the tower is wrapped with a copper/metal screen mesh to help keep the radar microwave signals out of the building. The building has double metal doors where you open one metal door then close it behind you as you enter the building then you open the next inner metal door. Inside the building, everything possible is grounded.

I don't care for working up on the tower, I know it can't be good for your health - unless you are working on very cold day and want to stay warm - almost like a fly inside a microwave oven - lol

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by xezen » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:09 pm

i would mount the equipment on a rubber pipe on the top so its isolated from the mask
and run this cable

http://www.assemblymag.com/ext/resource ... ation1.jpg

to the bottom and ground as far away from the mask(reactor) generating the noice

so its a insulated grounding away from the source of the problem
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:00 pm

xezen wrote:i would mount the equipment on a rubber pipe on the top so its isolated from the mask
and run this cable

http://www.assemblymag.com/ext/resource ... ation1.jpg

to the bottom and ground as far away from the mask(reactor) generating the noice

so its a insulated grounding away from the source of the problem



Re - the rubber pipe
I tried that several times and it fried both ends of the equipment on the Ethernet several times - and I could not pass 10 or 100 meg full duplex Ethernet traffic without heavy data errors.

With the way I have things grounded now, with the non-POE ports, I can now pass 1 gig full duplex with very few data errors. If I try running the POE ports at anything beyond 10 meg, I still get high data errors. So I now use at least two Ethernet cables - the POE port for power only and a second (and sometimes a third) Ethernet port(s) for data.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by xezen » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:58 am

do you have photos of this install on this location you have problems
If i dont No Ask someone That Does!

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:33 am

xezen wrote:do you have photos of this install on this location you have problems


Next time I am up there I will take some photos of our tower and the surroundings - elevation almost 4300 feet.
Right now, there is 5 to 7 feet of snow up there. (FYI - there is also a door on the roof so that we can get in when the snow is really deep)

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by WirelessRudy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:55 am

TomjNorthIdaho wrote:
xezen wrote:i would mount the equipment on a rubber pipe on the top so its isolated from the mask
and run this cable

http://www.assemblymag.com/ext/resource ... ation1.jpg

to the bottom and ground as far away from the mask(reactor) generating the noice

so its a insulated grounding away from the source of the problem



Re - the rubber pipe
I tried that several times and it fried both ends of the equipment on the Ethernet several times - and I could not pass 10 or 100 meg full duplex Ethernet traffic without heavy data errors.

With the way I have things grounded now, with the non-POE ports, I can now pass 1 gig full duplex with very few data errors. If I try running the POE ports at anything beyond 10 meg, I still get high data errors. So I now use at least two Ethernet cables - the POE port for power only and a second (and sometimes a third) Ethernet port(s) for data.
Some idea; Install Netmetal radios. Use ethernet cable for POE-in only+backup, run fibre from central to the radio. No more issues on the ethernet side..... now you can focus on the radio signals....
(About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you? :D )
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:03 am

re: (About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you?

I can't help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.

I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.

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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by WirelessRudy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:12 am

TomjNorthIdaho wrote:re: (About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you?

I can't help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.

I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.
Well, if the bird starts to smoke in full flight I think he is signalling dinner is ready..... :lol:

But yeah, most radars are revolving, so the beam is only pointed in some direction for a split second. And they will have a safety distance off course. I don't presume anybody is allowed to run in front of the radar for a while at relative short distance on a military installation.
But electronics might get a burst each time the signal beam will pass close or hit it/the building....
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Re: Solving 20km wireless link issues

by TomjNorthIdaho » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:28 am

WirelessRudy wrote:
TomjNorthIdaho wrote:re: (About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you?

I can't help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.

I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.
Well, if the bird starts to smoke in full flight I think he is signalling dinner is ready..... :lol:

But yeah, most radars are revolving, so the beam is only pointed in some direction for a split second. And they will have a safety distance off course. I don't presume anybody is allowed to run in front of the radar for a while at relative short distance on a military installation.
But electronics might get a burst each time the signal beam will pass close or hit it/the building....


Although this is a military radar system with some FAA use also, I heard it is also a phased array system. Where the inside will rotate on a round track and the antenna on the track is a multi-frequency phased-array set of panel antennas. Which allows the rotating track antenna to stop rotating and still have a decent over-the-horizon radar information.

FYI - I have 16 huge 180 pound 2.4 GHz phased-array 802.11 b/g systems from Vivato. They are still the most powerful point-to-multipoint 2.4 FCC licensed system out there. They managed to get them FCC registered as point-to-point which allows for higher power. Using a stock notebook computer, I could connect at 10 miles away (in a 90 degree beamwidth). Vivato went out of business because nobody could get past the price of $30K per AP. Each AP needed 48 volts at 400 watts.

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