Help with troubleshooting poor WiFi speed

zupo · Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:37 pm

Hey all! Long time hobby user of Mikrotiks here, no idea why it took me this long to join this forum.

In any case, I recently redid my entire home network and I've hit a roadblock that I lack the knowledge to overcome: my WiFi speed is not as fast as I would wish.

What is the best way to troubleshoot WiFi speed, starting with what tools to use to measure it properly?

Here's a few details about my setup:
* gigabit FTTH
* RB5009UPr+S+
* RBcAPGi-5acD2nD connected to the router with a 10m long CAT7 cable, with PoE
* MacBook set 1 meter away from the AP
* wired download speed: 900 Mbps according to speedtest.net
* wifi download speed: 100 to 200 Mbps according to speedtest.net
* ping more or less the same around 15 ms

Here's how the wifi is configured on the AP:

/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] band=5ghz-a/n/ac channel-width=20/40mhz-Ce \
    country=spain default-authentication=no disabled=no distance=indoors \
    frequency=auto hide-ssid=yes installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid=null \
    wireless-protocol=802.11 wps-mode=disabled
/interface wireless
add disabled=no mac-address=XXX master-interface=wlan1 name=\
    VAP2-HOUSE security-profile=SECPOLICY-HOUSE ssid="XXX" wps-mode=\
    disabled

Hypotheses that I don't know how to validate/reject:
* I mucked up something in wifi config. I tried to keep this as out-of-the-box as possible, but maybe that's not OK?
* I use VLANs to separate work, family and iot devices. On the AP, I see that the bridge from "ether2" to "BR2-HOUSE" has "hw-offload". Is this why ether is so much faster? How could I test this?
* I have another 5 APs around the house, all providing the same SSIDs as the AP under test. Are they conflicting with the test AP? How to test this?

I'm sure there is stuff I need to read to be able to troubleshoot this. Where should I start? What other info should I post here to help you help me?

gigabyte091 · Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:10 pm

There are several factors that can impact your performance.

You say you have 5 more APs around the house and if all of them transmit on the same frequency that is one source of interference.

I would never use auto frequency, who knows what frequency AP will choose. Scan your area to see if there is APs around you that could interfere with your APs.

What is link speed when you connect to AP ?

Smoerrebroed · Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:52 pm

Do you get the same/similar speed on all APs?

Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:07 pm

SInce you're asking for pointers:
(some of those are coming from this nice presentation: https://mum.mikrotik.com/presentations/ ... 209343.pdf)

Unless really needed, don't use a/n/ac. Use ac only, worst case n/ac. Try to avoid a.
Since you use legacy wireless, you can still play with datarates setting. Uncheck the lower rates and see where clients start to drop. Until where can you go ?
As indicated, don't use auto. Scan your environment, set the APs to the frequency having the least interference for their positioning.
Maybe they are interfering with each other ? You can have too much APs, you know... Frequency scan.
Since you don't show full relevant config, how are security settings? Don't use WPA, it's slower then WPA2.
Since you have cap AC, you can opt to use newer wave2 drivers. Makes a HUGE difference (and you will also be able to move to WPA3 security).
For reference: what's the speed like when you hook laptop to ether2 of that cap ac ?
1m away from AP might be (really !) too close ! Move a bit further away and see what happens.
What if you use another wireless client for reference ? (e.g. my former laptop only used AC, my Samsung S20 can use AX. Makes a big difference when testing Wifi speed on wave2 APs).

But what does the rest of the config look like for such a cAP AC ?

infabo · Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:09 pm

If you really have 200mbit/s measured throughput on just 40mhz channel width, then you're already maxing out what is even possible IMHO.

Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:11 pm

If you really have 200mbit/s measured throughput on just 40mhz channel width, then you're already maxing out what is even possible IMHO.

I seem to recall on AC3 I could reach close to 400Mbps. Same chipset for wifi.
Has been a while since I tested it, though. So probably it was on 80MHz width.

EDIT:
but speaking of which ... why not use 20/40/80 Ceee setting ? The chipset can do it.

Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:15 pm

I'm sure there is stuff I need to read to be able to troubleshoot this. Where should I start? What other info should I post here to help you help me?

Adding: you got the right attitude, that's already a big plus

infabo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:40 am

set channel-width=20/40/80mhz-XXXX wlan2

Then retest again on MacOS. make sure you're on 5ghz (https://osxdaily.com/2011/06/15/get-det ... -menu-bar/)

price question: why wlan2 ssid=null? what does this do?

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:41 am

In no particular order:

1. I've seen many people suggest to "scan you area" but I'm not sure how to do that. Is there a guide/wiki that you can point me to?

2.

What is link speed when you connect to AP ?

I don't know how to answer this. Is this the speed between the AP and the Router? How do I measure this?

3.

Do you get the same/similar speed on all APs?

Yes.

4.

Since you use legacy wireless, you can still play with datarates setting. Uncheck the lower rates and see where clients start to drop. Until where can you go ?

When doing the testing, the MacBook is the only client on 5GHz wifi.

5.

Since you don't show full relevant config, how are security settings? Don't use WPA, it's slower then WPA2.

I am using WPA2, here's the config:

/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] authentication-types=wpa2-psk supplicant-identity=\
    MikroTik
add authentication-types=wpa2-psk mode=dynamic-keys name=SECPOLICY-HOUSE \
    supplicant-identity=MikroTik

6.

what's the speed like when you hook laptop to ether2 of that cap ac ?

The speed is 900 Mbps. Sorry for not being clear in the first post, but the laptop is connected to ether2 on the AP.

7.

what does the rest of the config look like

Attached.

cap.rsc

8.

If you really have 200mbit/s measured throughput on just 40mhz channel width, then you're already maxing out what is even possible IMHO.

I don't understand enough about channel width to comment on this. I've read on the interwebs that one shall not use large channel width, but I lack the intuition on what the consequences of that advice are. Wikipedia says 5Ghz should go to "at least gigabit speeds" so that's what I'm aiming for.

Should I increase the channel width?

9.

why not use 20/40/80 Ceee

Because I've read multiple times that I should not. Should I?

10. Things I'll try tomorrow and report back, it's getting late :
* "don't use a/n/ac. Use ac only"
* "use newer wave2 drivers"
* "Move a bit further away"
* "use another wireless client for reference"

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:00 am

set channel-width=20/40/80mhz-XXXX wlan2

Then retest again on MacOS.

Thanks, will do!

make sure you're on 5ghz (https://osxdaily.com/2011/06/15/get-det ... -menu-bar/)

100% I am on 5ghz as I turn of 2.4ghz interface on the AP when doing the test. Triple checked the menu bar, just in case.

price question: why wlan2 ssid=null? what does this do?

I believe this comes from the fact I am using virtual APs to have multiple SSIDs on one AP, so that each SSID goes to its dedicated VLAN. I do this for work/family/iot device separation. So the `ssid=null` line comes from the real interface configuration, and a bit below there is the `ssid=XXX` which is the virtual interface configuration.

Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:22 am

Last part
Doesn't make sense.
Set the master interface to a real SSID, the one most used or the one most secure, whatever.
Then virtual for the rest you need.

Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:46 am

In no particular order:

1. I've seen many people suggest to "scan you area" but I'm not sure how to do that. Is there a guide/wiki that you can point me to?

Winbox, wifi/wireless (depending on what drivers you use), first tab.
There are 2 buttons labelled Scanner and Frequency Usage.
Hit Scanner or Frequency Usage and then select which radio you want to use for scan.
While doing this, that radio will become unusable for logical reasons (it's doing something else for a while) so don't do this when connected to that router via wifi using that same radio.
More info:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... rface-Scan

2.
What is link speed when you connect to AP ?
I don't know how to answer this. Is this the speed between the AP and the Router? How do I measure this?

Your client device should give you an indication. I know my Samsung S20 and Windows Laptop show this without any problems when I go to Wifi details.
You can also see this on your router: Wifi / registrations, MAC address of your client device.

8.
If you really have 200mbit/s measured throughput on just 40mhz channel width, then you're already maxing out what is even possible IMHO.
I don't understand enough about channel width to comment on this. I've read on the interwebs that one shall not use large channel width, but I lack the intuition on what the consequences of that advice are. Wikipedia says 5Ghz should go to "at least gigabit speeds" so that's what I'm aiming for.

Should I increase the channel width?

Channel width: yes.
at least gigabitspeeds in 5GHz: don't believe everything they say on interweb without grasping the whole context. Not with AC technology and 2x2 streams. Around 700MBps would be the max if you move to wave2 drivers.

9.
why not use 20/40/80 Ceee
Because I've read multiple times that I should not. Should I?

See 8.

whatever · Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:07 pm

Wikipedia says 5Ghz should go to "at least gigabit speeds" so that's what I'm aiming for.

Where exactly did you read that? In general this is not true.

Should I increase the channel width?

9.
why not use 20/40/80 Ceee
Because I've read multiple times that I should not. Should I?

If the signal is strong enough, noise is low enough and the spectrum is free: Of course, go as high as feasible. Channel width directly correlates to throughout.

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:00 pm

So I found "Tx Rate" in the macOS Wifi UI:

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 10.02.59.png

When I change the channel width to "20/40/80mhz-XXXX" I see the "Tx Rate" increases:

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 10.08.16.png

And speedtest.net goes up to 400+ mbps. This is quite good!

But after AP reboot (just to confirm it still works), the speed goes back to ~100 mbps. I notice that the channel is different and the Tx Rate dropped. I guess I should really do the frequency scan next.

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 10.56.53.png

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:02 pm

Related question: what's a better alternative to running speedtest in a browser? Is there a way to test throughput from the macOS via the AP to the router, and make the test more replicable by removing the FTTH connection speed noise?

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:07 pm

When I'm doing the tests, I disable the 5ghzs interfaces on all other APs in the house. I am assuming that I can keep the 2.4ghzs interfaces running, as they don't interfere. Is this assumption correct?

Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:17 pm

Couple of things:
-
- on the test AP, set the frequency manually to 5260 (=channel 52 but it is the first 80Mhz wide block)
- speedtest: I use an in-house iperf3 server for such testing. Any computer can be setup to act as iperf3 server.
- keeping 2.4GHz enabled: does not impact 5GHz testing.

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:21 pm

Scanner does not find anything in the 5ghz range.

Freq. Usage reports the following:

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 11.19.16.png

Suburban location, detached house.

Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:35 pm

So your basically alone there

See how it goes setting that frequency fixed and using 20/40/80

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:36 pm

- on the test AP, set the frequency manually to 5260 (=channel 52 but it is the first 80Mhz wide block)

This helps make the speed more stable. It goes above 200 mbps even after multiple tests, reboots, yay!

- speedtest: I use an in-house iperf3 server for such testing. Any computer can be setup to act as iperf3 server.

Ah nice, I'll set it up on the NAS and report back!

- keeping 2.4GHz enabled: does not impact 5GHz testing.

Thanks!

So your basically alone there

Yes

whatever · Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:55 pm

And speedtest.net goes up to 400+ mbps. This is quite good!

It's probably the best you will get with the old wireless driver. If you want even faster 5GHz speed (500+ Mbps) you may want to test the new wifi driver, but this requires building a new, slightly different wifi configuration from scratch.

But after AP reboot (just to confirm it still works), the speed goes back to ~100 mbps. I notice that the channel is different and the Tx Rate dropped.

Maybe the signal strength was too high(!) in that case, due to the selected channel. Try to moving away some meters from the AP.

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:36 pm

And speedtest.net goes up to 400+ mbps. This is quite good!
It's probably the best you will get with the old wireless driver. If you want even faster 5GHz speed (500+ Mbps) you may want to test the new wifi driver, but this requires building a new, slightly different wifi configuration from scratch.

I feel very Olympic today, is there a guide how to do this?

Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:39 pm

Hmmm ...

maybe start here and then see how far you get

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WiFi

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:49 pm

Going back to channel width, how do I decide which one of these to use:
- 20/40/80mhz-Ceee
- 20/40/80mhz-eCee
- 20/40/80mhz-eeCe
- 20/40/80mhz-eeeC
- 20/40/80mhz-XXXX

My assumption is that if auto frequency was suboptimal, the XXXX control channel auto is also suboptimal and I should chose one of the "C" options. Which one?

erlinden · Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:15 pm

The C stands for Control channel and every C or e (or X) is 20MHz bandwidth.

In case of Ceee and channel 5500:
5490-5570 used frequencies, where the control channel is frequency 5500.

In case of eCee and channel 5520:
5490-5570 used frequencies, where the control channel is frequency 5520.

A tool like inSSIDer will show exactely what is used in these cases.

In this topic you can find some more info:
viewtopic.php?t=177787

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:45 pm

iperf3 up and running: https://gist.github.com/zupo/852c0aceea ... d58b413895

Wired:

[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  8]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.08 GBytes   930 Mbits/sec   70             sender
[  8]   0.00-10.00  sec  1.08 GBytes   930 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Wireless (Tx Rate 866):

[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  8]   0.00-10.00  sec   748 MBytes   628 Mbits/sec    0             sender
[  8]   0.00-10.02  sec   747 MBytes   626 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Wireless (Tx Rate 866) with an iPhone running speedtest next to the MacBook, to add some noise

[ ID] Interval           Transfer     Bitrate         Retr
[  8]   0.00-10.00  sec   550 MBytes   461 Mbits/sec  300             sender
[  8]   0.00-10.01  sec   549 MBytes   460 Mbits/sec                  receiver

Pretty awesome

Anything above 300mbps, I'm happy.

Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:52 pm

Nice !
630Mbps on cAP AC is something which could be only dreamed of some years ago.

If you have a capable client device and a real AX AP, you can go up to 700-750Mbps.
But for that difference I would not replace that cAP AC right now, especially not with new wave2 drivers

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:12 pm

630Mbps on cAP AC is something which could be only dreamed of some years ago.

Why is that? Did the firmware improve over the recent years?

FWIW, I'm running RouterOS 6.49.10 LTS on my cAP AC.

infabo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:13 pm

OP, you installed the wifi-qcom-ac driver package already (needs ROS 7.13+)? Either way - your iperf3 results look pretty good.

Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:17 pm

Wait a moment, I was under the assumption you already applied wave2 drivers to that cAP AC ?

So ... you're pushing 630Mbps on cAP AC using ROS6 ?
That's hard to believe.
Theoretically you can only get data rate (=866 Mbps) divided by 2 as rough estimate for real speed = 433Mbps or about and that's on wave1 radios.

Using wave2 drivers (ROS7.13 at least and qcom-ac driver), you can get to 700-750Mbps.

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:21 pm

I have two more cAP ACs a few meters/walls away to cover the rest of the first floor. I need to choose channels for them.

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels, this is my thinking:
* current cAP AC that I tested above is set to use channel 52. Because I use 20/40/80MHz channel width, channels 54 and 58 are used.
* on the Wikipedia list I see the next "block" of channels that supports 80MHz is 100. And then the next one is 132. So I should use 100 and 132 channels for the other two cAPs. Correct or am I missing something?

Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:23 pm

You can also go down to channel 36 (=5180) since your all alone

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:29 pm

Wait a moment, I was under the assumption you already applied wave2 drivers to that cAP AC ?

So ... you're pushing 630Mbps on cAP AC using ROS6 ?
That's hard to believe.
Theoretically you can only get data rate (=866 Mbps) divided by 2 as rough estimate for real speed = 433Mbps or about and that's on wave1 radios.

Using wave2 drivers (ROS7.13 at least and qcom-ac driver), you can get to 700-750Mbps.

No, haven't switched to wave2, wanted to see what the local maximum is on the old driver, before I go and rip everything apart.

Maybe I am doing some measurements wrong? See screenshots.

Granted, these are the best results. I don't consistently get 600Mbps, most of the time it's around 400Mbps.

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 16.24.05.png

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 16.25.40.png

Screenshot 2024-01-18 at 16.26.37.png

IMG_0005.PNG

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:30 pm

You can also go down to channel 36 (=5180) since your all alone

Ah nice, fair point, overlooked that one, thanks!

infabo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:32 pm

36,52,68,84

I would try DFS channels on the cAPs that need maybe cover a slightly larger area. Channel 100+ have higher transmit power (but need to adhere DFS).

zupo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:02 pm

36,52,68,84

I would try DFS channels on the cAPs that need maybe cover a slightly larger area. Channel 100+ have higher transmit power (but need to adhere DFS).

I get "bad band or frequency" if I try to set 68. I guess country policy limitation?

Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:12 pm

Should be 36 , 52, 100, 132 (5180 / 5260 / 5500 / 5660 respectively)

68 is not allowed for 40/80 width, only 20.
Definitely not in the list of allowed 80MHz channels according to that earlier linked Wikipedia article.

infabo · Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:30 pm

Thanks holvoetn for correcting my bad!

zupo · Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:04 am

Should be 36 , 52, 100, 132 (5180 / 5260 / 5500 / 5660 respectively)

Why not 116? On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels it seems that it should be good too?

132 does not seem to work though, I get "bad band or frequency" when I try to set `frequency=5660`

zupo · Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:49 am

Fun fact, I also have a wsAP ac lite, and with the same settings as cAP ACs above, I can't get above 100mbps. Also fiddled around with different channel-widths, distances, etc. Won't go over 100 mbps. Is cAP AC just that much better hardware?

Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:28 am

Why not 116? On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels it seems that it should be good too?

Depends on your location. For quite a bit of countries parts of the 80MHz block are not allowed to be used.
In your case (Spain / Canarian Islands ?) it should be possible indeed.

132 does not seem to work though, I get "bad band or frequency" when I try to set `frequency=5660`

No problem here. But that might be because of wave2 drivers on my devices (I only have AX-stuff at home).
Although from what I see, cAP AC should be able to use that frequency as well.
It is right in the middle of DFS-restriction though for Europe. Maybe that's at play ?

Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:31 am

Fun fact, I also have a wsAP ac lite, and with the same settings as cAP ACs above, I can't get above 100mbps. Also fiddled around with different channel-widths, distances, etc. Won't go over 100 mbps. Is cAP AC just that much better hardware?

Only 1 chain vs 2, maximum datarate 433Mbps vs 866.
So yes, cAP AC is quite a bit better wifi-wise.
Also, wsAP ac lite is MIPSBE so you will never be able to benefit from wave2 drivers on that one.

But speed is not the point for using wsAP ac lite. Having connection is.

zupo · Fri Jan 19, 2024 2:53 pm

To wrap up, I now have 3 cAP acs and 3 wsAP ac lites happily humming along. On cAP I consistently get 400+ mbps and on wsAP lites I get close to 100 mbps, which is about three times faster than before. And just generally speaking, "the signal feels better", i.e. less random dropouts, slowdowns, etc.

In total, I did not have to do major changes. Just the following:
* wider channel on cAP ac
* limit to AC-only
* static frequencies instead of auto

Thanks everyone for the help, you are super kind!

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