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normis
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Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 1:12 pm

Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Read our latest newsletter and learn more about:

- CRS326-4C+20G+2Q+RM
- LtAP LR8 LTE6 kit
- FTC11XG
- XQ+CM0000-XS+
- SXTsq-mount
- distributor success story with crypto and LHGs
- new #MikroTips and tricks
- Train the Trainer event, and so much more!

https://mt.lv/news117
 
ksteink
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:16 pm

The new CRS is DoA for me:

-1/5 the RAM of the CRS326-24G
- wow 32 MB Flash. This cut cost corner doesn’t make sense and they have to come later to do crazy and stupid things to split packages like the mess on the wifi ones just because there is no enough storage nor memory.
- 40 Gbps is being replaced by the 25 Gbps / 100 Gbps ( Even the CCR21xx series comes with no 40 Gbps ports ) and the Industry is moving away from 40 Gbps.
- No PoE+ or PoE++ ports but twice the cost of a CRS328-24P
- 3X times more expensive than the CRS 326-24G just to add 2.5 Gbps + 2 extra SFP+ ports and 2 x 40 Gbps uplinks doesn’t make much sense to me
-Single core on the CPU not even dual?

There are some nice features but looks a downgrade in other key components like RAM, Storage and CPU
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:09 pm

Also, why is it using a mipsbe CPU when MikroTik is clearly moving everything they have to ARM? Even the $60 hAP ax lite has a dual core ARM CPU, but a $1000 switch does not?
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:17 pm

CPU on a switch normally doesn't do a lot. The switch chip should do all the heavy lifting.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:30 pm

Yeah, RAM and CPU are mostly meaningless for a switch, it's just for management purposes. The big question is if the switch chip is stable or if it has problems like the other CRS models.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:57 pm

Yeah, RAM and CPU are mostly meaningless for a switch, it's just for management purposes. The big question is if the switch chip is stable or if it has problems like the other CRS models.
Well if you want to use the switch as Layer 2 only, agree with you but if you want to enable advanced features on L3 like Dynamic Routing or any other advanced features, becomes an issue or even worst not a viable option to use.

Again, why nickle and dime on this? The whole idea and mantra of Mikrotik is to do whatever you want but if you are handicapped on this basics, the value of the hardware (Switch on this case) plummet.

I support a CRS312 that has 64 MB with L3 HW Offload. The switch reboots every 2 weeks when Memory gets maxed out.

I also have a CRS326-24G with 512 MB and is a rock solid (not issues compared with the CRS312).

So for me CRS312, CRS5xx series and this new one is Dead on Arrival (Aside of the 3X times price issue for additional port speeds (2.5 Gbps) and couple extra SFP+ and 2 x 40 Gbps that the Industry is abandoning.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:03 pm

Yeah, RAM and CPU are mostly meaningless for a switch, it's just for management purposes. The big question is if the switch chip is stable or if it has problems like the other CRS models.
I support a CRS312 that has 64 MB with L3 HW Offload. The switch reboots every 2 weeks when Memory gets maxed out.

So for me CRS312, CRS5xx series and this new one is Dead on Arrival (Aside of the 3X times price issue for additional port speeds (2.5 Gbps) and couple extra SFP+ and 2 x 40 Gbps that the Industry is abandoning.
So there's two things here.
On the CRS312, I can say that I've had one running for well over a year and the only reboots it's had are for ROS updates. It's only doing layer2 and "the snoopings"; routing is disabled and it's only "reachable" via a management VLAN.
I "feel like" there's a memory leak causing your reboots, but it's definitely not in any of the modules/features that I'm actually using. Throwing more RAM at a memory leak is an expensive bandaid... My recommendation would be to monitor RAM use and once you see it getting "rather high", generate a supout and put in a ticket with it so that their boffins can have a look.

The second thing, I definitely have mixed feelings on the switching/ports.
40Gbe ethernet is the same generation of tech that 10Gbe is... so for shops and use cases that are still "fat, dumb, and happy" with the 10Gbe, then 40Gbe is usually still ideal... because at the end of the day, those 40Gbe uplinks can be broken out to separate 10Gbe connections if more ports are needed, and on top of that (in this specific case) a single one of those 40Gbe uplinks is likely to be enough to keep the bulk of the 2.5Gbe connections happy.
Using a newer asic that has native 25/100Gbe switching, instead of 10/40Gbe switching, would have made this CRS326-4C+20G+2Q+RM even more expensive.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:58 pm

CPU on a switch normally doesn't do a lot. The switch chip should do all the heavy lifting.
It's marketed as a Cloud Router Switch. If you use it for its routing functions, CPU performance does matter (even with the addition of L3 HW offloading).
Besides, the use of an ARM CPU allows for features that are not available on other platforms. If I want to use ZeroTier to manage my switches, I could do that on the previous model (CRS326-24G-2S+RM) but not on the new one.

It's the same story with the CRS328-24P-4S+RM: ARM CPU w/ 512MB of RAM. You want to upgrade your 24 ports PoE switch to an 48 ports switch and buy a CRS354-48P-4S+2Q+RM and suddenly you're stuck with a MIPS CPU that's half as fast and you only have 64MB of RAM. Even if it is "fast enough", MikroTik's choice of management CPUs just doesn't make sense.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:17 pm

128M is certainly prohibitively low for running a sizable L3 network. For $1000 it should have an ARM with a 512MB at least.
 
ksteink
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:54 am

128M is certainly prohibitively low for running a sizable L3 network. For $1000 it should have an ARM with a 512MB at least.
Precisely one of my points! and the price is 3X higher than the old CRS326-24G without any PoE and 1/5 of the memory!
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:02 am


I support a CRS312 that has 64 MB with L3 HW Offload. The switch reboots every 2 weeks when Memory gets maxed out.

So for me CRS312, CRS5xx series and this new one is Dead on Arrival (Aside of the 3X times price issue for additional port speeds (2.5 Gbps) and couple extra SFP+ and 2 x 40 Gbps that the Industry is abandoning.
So there's two things here.
On the CRS312, I can say that I've had one running for well over a year and the only reboots it's had are for ROS updates. It's only doing layer2 and "the snoopings"; routing is disabled and it's only "reachable" via a management VLAN.
I "feel like" there's a memory leak causing your reboots, but it's definitely not in any of the modules/features that I'm actually using. Throwing more RAM at a memory leak is an expensive bandaid... My recommendation would be to monitor RAM use and once you see it getting "rather high", generate a supout and put in a ticket with it so that their boffins can have a look.

The second thing, I definitely have mixed feelings on the switching/ports.
40Gbe ethernet is the same generation of tech that 10Gbe is... so for shops and use cases that are still "fat, dumb, and happy" with the 10Gbe, then 40Gbe is usually still ideal... because at the end of the day, those 40Gbe uplinks can be broken out to separate 10Gbe connections if more ports are needed, and on top of that (in this specific case) a single one of those 40Gbe uplinks is likely to be enough to keep the bulk of the 2.5Gbe connections happy.
Using a newer asic that has native 25/100Gbe switching, instead of 10/40Gbe switching, would have made this CRS326-4C+20G+2Q+RM even more expensive.
On the CRS312 could be a memory leak but I see memory running almost full and I see random reboots every 2 weeks. I have similar configurattion on a CRS326 with 512 MB of RAM and have zero issues with random reboots. That tells me that these switches are running too tight on memory specially knowing that these days are very inexpensive, why not normalize the whole production and models with the same memory (i.e., 1 GB) and avoid nickle and dime for optimize RAM or Storage to keep compatibility in future releases? I still don't get it.

Got your point on the 40 Gbps and fine with that BUT 3X times price increase and not even PoE support makes this switch a DoA for me.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:54 am

I dont have any information about the reasons for CPU selection in case of CRS326-4C+20G+2Q+RM
but
some months ago industry rumors talked about notable ARM changes in royalty fee policy, some rumors point towards ARM asking not only for a percentage of chip cost as previously was but also now they ask for a percentage of the total retail price of the product contaning an ARM chip

that can be a hefty reason to avoid to use ARM whenever possible

For a switch the CPU is mostly used for management purposes, this device is mainly focused towards pushing traffic using hardware offload features of switching ASIC, so the kind of included CPU is not a game changer
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:36 am

Precisely one of my points! and the price is 3X higher than the old CRS326-24G without any PoE and 1/5 of the memory!
Unfortunally I'm afraid that some part of Mikrotik is going all in for the "performance-per-$" race, that can never be won because of China/Aliexpress/etc. That's why we see a lot for CSS-models.

In my opinion it's better to focus on real professional features (like advanced-switching, routing-protocols, encryption, API:s), unique hardware features (size, fanless, DC-fed) and affordability. People that want's the cheapest possible 2.5G/10G switch will head to Aliexpress.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:13 pm

Also, why is it using a mipsbe CPU when MikroTik is clearly moving everything they have to ARM? Even the $60 hAP ax lite has a dual core ARM CPU, but a $1000 switch does not?
As far as I can tell they use the same CPU (QCA9531) on their top of the line CRS5xx 100Gbps switches, and on a side note it was also used on a tiny mAP and hAP devices because it is actually wireless IEEE 802.11n SOC so maybe Mikrotik has huge number left of those because low cost AP sales wasn't going so well :)...
On the other hand it is probably good enough for just a management tasks as it should be the case, but I would much prefer PoE model since we already have RB5009 and ax3 with 2.5G PoE in ports and any 5 GHz ax wifi device already needs something faster than 1G... and they could skip QSFP+ ports to keep the price reasonable...
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:54 pm

Where is wAP AX?

Btw, wAP LTE kit 2024? 100Mbps ethernet and 2.4Ghz only in 2024? Why????
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:41 pm

You have to remember the ARM CPU in the other switches is integrated in the switch chip itself. If it's not an option with the switch chip they've chosen for a particular product, then it's additional cost just to improve routing functionality.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:21 pm

To anyone in North America, neither the new wAP or '24 LtAP will work there.

Now the new Fiber adapter – that is a good concept.

In my opinion it's better to focus on real professional features (like advanced-switching, routing-protocols, encryption, API:s), unique hardware features (size, fanless, DC-fed) and affordability. People that want's the cheapest possible 2.5G/10G switch will head to Aliexpress.
Well said. I've never understood the market for their switches – nothing has good PoE support so always been a "game ender" for me & RouterOS interface for line-rate L2 switching is kinda lousy and error-prone. I guess the pricing meets some market need, dunno.

I just keep hoping they expand out the RB5xxx in creative directions. The ability to mix-and-match various RB5xxx to form a "stack" covers a LOT of use cases. It's just sad that half-rack Netgear M4300 series is a better fit with RB5009 than anything from Mikrotik switching — more $ but 10G ports & different port configs in same FF.

As @mada3k points out, there are a lot of generic switches out there if cost is number one concern. Having one vendor for routing and switch & good interop/management would nice, but NONE of the switches have ever meet any real-world need of mine. And if I have many switches to manage, the Mikrotik option to manage them is The Dude?

Sorry for rant... but between word "gamechanger" for 2.5G switch without PoE & another IoT diagram using device without BTH/zerotier support – all a bridge too far ;)
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:59 pm

It's also very strange to have both fans and a big passive radiator. It's neither forced-air cooled nor passive-cooled. It must be quite expensive to manufacture all that heatsink for nothing.

Forced air devices have the advantage of be able to operate in warmer areas, passive ones can not.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:04 pm

It must be quite expensive to manufacture all that heatsink for nothing.

Perhaps the initial idea was to make device passively cooled but later it turned out it wasn't enough so they installed some fans. And somebody forgot to cancel the order of half a million of heat sinks?
 
bratislav
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:52 pm

It's also very strange to have both fans and a big passive radiator. It's neither forced-air cooled nor passive-cooled. It must be quite expensive to manufacture all that heatsink for nothing.

Forced air devices have the advantage of be able to operate in warmer areas, passive ones can not.
Forced air and passive-cooling are actually pretty commonly used together (for example fans and heat sinks on CPUs) so is it is not OR situation...
But in this particular case 2 fans are used mostly for pulling air from PSUs to cool those 2 down and also improve SFPs cooling, switch chip is cooled by the large heatsink with pipes, actually there is an empty space and connector for additional fan that you can connect and use to improve air flow along heat sink if switch is used in wormer areas although that would probably void the warranty...

Image
Image
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:39 pm

If you are putting fans in the unit, why on earth why not design the whole switch then for a front-to-back or side-to-side airflow. If you are putting this device is a warm closet, the powersupplies and SFPs might be OK, but the chips will run very hot since the airflow doesn't pass the heatsink.
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:41 pm

If you are putting fans in the unit, why on earth why not design the whole switch then for a front-to-back or side-to-side airflow. If you are putting this device is a warm closet, the powersupplies and SFPs might be OK, but the chips will run very hot since the airflow doesn't pass the heatsink.
Actually in this case the cool are is pulled through the openings in the front and hot air exhausted in the back so it is front-to-back airflow, and additional fan would do side-to-side airflow, on the other hand I am pretty sure that MikroTik tested the design in all kind of environments and decided that cooling is sufficient as it is and that even that additional fan is not needed...
 
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Re: Newsletter #117 | March 2024

Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:47 pm

MK does not use warranty stickers so disassembling of unit is not punished with warranty void.

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