SFP module
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normis
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SFP module

by normis » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Which SFP module features would be most important for you?

Distance, power, mode, wavelength, channels, voltage etc. For example:
http://www.finisar.com/sites/default/fi ... 0Guide.pdf

I mean exactly SFP, not any other standard.
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Re: SFP module

by ste » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:47 pm

We use LevelOne SFP-3211:

1310nm FPLD
Datarate: 1.25Gbps, NRZ
Single +3.3V Power Supply
Duplex LC Connector
IEEE-802.3z/Gigabit Ethernet/1.25Gbps
10km


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Re: SFP module

by dingsingo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:18 pm

I think the best is:

- 1,25GB singelmode 1310nm 10km and a longhole version
- 1,25GB singelmode 1550nm 10km and a longhole version

- 1,25GB multimode 550m

- 100M singlemode 1310nm

- 100M multimode 2km 850nm

- 1,25GB WDM 1310/1550nm 10km

It's, the TP-Link oder Dlink portfolie by SFP's, too.


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Re: SFP module

by macgaiver » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:35 pm

After examining http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ovqe3Xj ... re=related
I have seen SC Simplex and LC Duplex connector types around here, so i think we should stick to that.

And after this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xYOzY4z ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D6CkULc ... re=related

I think both modes are important - but i think distance <500m will be most popular.
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Re: SFP module

by dingsingo » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:14 pm

hi,

my think, LC-Connector will by standard.


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Re: SFP module

by dannyn382 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:36 am

If this is a feature that you are thinking about implementing, it would be nice if we could have a SFP slot so that we could use any that we wanted dending on the current installation needs.

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Re: SFP module

by oeyre » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:38 am

I think it would be a good idea to make DOM statistics available if supported by the transceiver, and to make them available via SNMP.

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Re: SFP module

by vik1988 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:22 am

oeyre wrote:I think it would be a good idea to make DOM statistics available if supported by the transceiver, and to make them available via SNMP.

+1, DDMi SFP support should be better option with ROS
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Re: SFP module

by normis » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:34 am

dannyn382 wrote:If this is a feature that you are thinking about implementing, it would be nice if we could have a SFP slot so that we could use any that we wanted dending on the current installation needs.


we already have a product with SFP slot - RB2011LS. It is coming later this month. The question of this topic is specifically about SFP modules.
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Re: SFP module

by vik1988 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:11 am

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Re: SFP module

by netmaster » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:52 am

Which SFP module features would be most important for you?
Distance, power, mode, wavelength, channels, voltage etc. For example:


I do not understand, how SFP module features (distance, etc.) affect Routerboard or RouterOS? Or is this just a statistical survey?

Whole point of SFP is, that user can choose whatever type of module is needed. I have used 10-15 different types (MM, SM 10,20,40,80km distance, WDM, whatever).

Does Mikrotik have plans to produce own SFP modules?
Last edited by netmaster on Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SFP module

by normis » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:55 am

netmaster wrote:Does Mikrotik have plans to produce own SFP modules?

why not?
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Re: SFP module

by netmaster » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:06 am

what's the point? World is full of any type of SFP modules. MT can't produce full range of possible types, and make just a few, with different sticker on them is pointless in my opinion.

Or have you plans to lock MT products to MT modules or some other "special features"?

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AW: SFP module

by ste » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:18 pm

If MT would sell SFP Modules together with Boards. Why not.

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Re: SFP module

by normis » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:41 pm

No, we don't plan to lock you into any SFP module. We are just looking for people's opinion on SFP modules. Why overthink this?
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Re: SFP module

by Stanislav Hrncir » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:01 pm

Daughterboard for RB800 with SFP slots - no modules will be better than every Mikrotik SFP module..

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Re: SFP module

by netmaster » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:20 am

We are just looking for people's opinion on SFP modules. Why overthink this?


excuse me for nagging, but then you could ask also "what color of patch cables would be most important for you?"
Green, red, yellow, maybe with dots or stripes, etc.

:)

to be serious, I believe, for wide area networks, short distance (10-20km) SM or WDM is most used.

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Re: SFP module

by whitenoise » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 am

normis wrote:Which SFP module features would be most important for you?

Distance, power, mode, wavelength, channels, voltage etc. For example:


price, compatibility :lol:



SC, SM, WDM, 2-10km

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Re: SFP module

by complete2006 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:25 am

Please accept any sfp coding.

It makes really no sense to poll the SFP coding and tell the user "not compatible" as equipment from other big vendors...

We are buying SFP for arround 20€. If you need a special coding (for cisco, brocade, hp ...) we tell it our supplier an he will code the SFP to our needs.

Spend you time an energy to make an RB1200 without TX-Ports and only SFP slots. There is no product with a good price in the market.

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Re: SFP module

by leonet45 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:02 pm

Hi normis, can you respond this post, please

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59565


Thanks

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Re: SFP module

by karlos » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:01 pm

For me SFP type, LC connector and BiDi (WDM) on single wire

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Re: SFP module

by uebi » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:03 pm

normis wrote:Which SFP module features would be most important for you?

Distance, power, mode, wavelength, channels, voltage etc. For example:
http://www.finisar.com/sites/default/fi ... 0Guide.pdf

I mean exactly SFP, not any other standard.



For us it's

- 1000BaseSX (Multimode, 550m) for the datacenter and campus (connecting switches and servers to the router) or where 1000BaseT (100m) isn't enough
- 1000BaseLX(LH) (Singlemode, 10/20 km) for some bigger distances and "newer" instatallations where only SMF is available
- 1000BaseBX or BiDi (1310/1550 Singlemode, Single Fiber, 10/20/40km) where fibers are expensive :-)
- 100BaseBX or BiDi (1310/1550 Singlemode, Single Fiber, 10/20/40km) for the connection to the customer's CPE device (I hope that the RB SFP slot is also capable of running 100mbit SFPs not just Gig!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Very seldom:
- 1000BaseSX+ (Multimode, 2 km)
- 1000BaseZX (Singlemode, 80 km) normally solved by BiDis (available up to 120km)

Very, very seldom:
- CWDM

Very, very, very seldom (1 installation :-)
- DWDM



It's nice to be able to monitor the SFP (DOM, DDM). Would be a great RB feature ;-)


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Re: SFP module

by rfauske » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Dualrate BiDi modules, and really hope the SFP slot accepts dualrate modules as we might use the board as a FTB solution where we have some 100mbit and some 1000mbit connections from our CO routers

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Re: SFP module

by fmenard123 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:37 am

There is a few more SFPs out there which pushes the limits of what can be done with fiber:

Dual Fiber CWDM - this lets you do 16 circuits on two strands of fiber through a Mux/Demux (4 muxes)
Single Fiber CWDM - this lets you do 16 circuits on one strand of fiber. (Two Muxes)
DWDM SFP - this lets you do 40 circuits on two fibers in the C band (Two AAWGs)
Single Fiber DWDM-PON SFP - this lets you do 40 circuits on 1 fiber, using L band in the downstream and C-band in the upstream

The DWDM stuff requires up to 600 MilliAmps - so MT has to make sure the RB2011 will not toast if the SFP wishes to draw more than the normal 300 MilliAmps.

Ping me if you want more details on this stuff.

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Re: SFP module

by paoloaga » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:10 pm

1000Base-BX-U/D are my favorite. 1GBit/s full duplex over a single fiber. I am using them a lot.

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Re: SFP module

by honzam » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:06 pm

Exist a MiniPCI-SFP card? It would be good for rb800 and others rb
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Re: SFP module

by interpoint » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:23 pm

The ability to query the SFP module directly by ROS would be cool.

This could be used to measure laser power and other L1 laser properties. Fo example the laser light power levels being transmitted TX and the laser light power level being received RX. In that wasy you could detect issues with the optics. Certain SFP and not all generic modules will do this. Can MT identify models that would work better with ROS (and utilise these features).

In regard to our needs (in order of preferance):

1. SFP LC Presentation 1000Mb 10Km or 30Km Single Mode
2. SFP LC Presentation 1000Mb Multi Mode
3. SFP LC Presentation 1000Mb 10Km WDM capability (Fibre colouring is on the UP)
4. SFP LC Presentation 100Mb Multi Mode for legacy fibre based systems
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Re: SFP module

by ofca » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:42 pm

I would like to see the SFP slot first. You know, the one promised to be released at the end of march? ;)

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Re: SFP module

by midnightman » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:54 pm

support WDM SFPs !!! For example TP link SFP WDM :)

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Re: SFP module

by midsizewisp » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:27 pm

So what is the status of the RB2011LS?

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Re: SFP module

by normis » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:20 am

midsizewisp wrote:So what is the status of the RB2011LS?


please wait a few days for official status update, next week we will have news
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Re: SFP module

by killersoft » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:23 pm

some other supported SFP's I'd like to see on the list
100FX
1000SX
in LC(of course!) or MT-RJ form factors!

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Re: SFP module

by midnightman » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Maybe some Mikrotik SFP switch? :) 8)

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Re: SFP module

by icepicknz » Thu May 10, 2012 7:49 am

We have just installed our first RB2011LS and installed a SFP that New Zealand operator Chorus provides with all their "HSNS" (Fibre) products. Unfortunately the circuit doesn't stand up, MT says "Link up (speed 0M, full duplex). We have tried hard setting the speed to 100mb full duplex, also tried setting auto negotiate. Our operator uses single fibre for 100mb and 2 fibres for 1Gb or larger circuits.

I will find out what kind of SFP this is but I know it's singlemode as per attached picture of fibre color.

It seems like we need BX SFP support.

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Re: SFP module

by macgaiver » Thu May 10, 2012 11:59 am

I also have "Link up (speed 0M, full duplex)." ,but it looks like cosmetic bug in the logs. The traffic is going trough in desired speed. just make sure that Ready flag is ON. and you should be OK.
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Re: SFP module

by icepicknz » Fri May 11, 2012 8:14 am

Here is the SFP we're using, it appears to be SP-SF 155M BIDI 1310TX SM (LC) INT
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Re: SFP module

by macgaiver » Fri May 11, 2012 9:02 am

1) do you get "ready" flag when you interconnect everything?

2) are you aware that you need Tx 1310nm/Rx 1550nm module on one side and Tx 1550nm/Rx 1310nm module on other?? (i know it is obvious, but this is common mistake)

3) have you tried sfp-rate-selection=high/low option in "/interface ethernet" menu - so far i was not able to find module that have some kind of effect by changing this, but you can try.

4) have you tried to disable auto-negotiation?
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Re: SFP module

by hzdrus » Mon May 14, 2012 4:01 pm

Are 100 mbps SFP modules compatible with RB2011LS-IN? This is really important for us and would allow to purchase RB2011LS in quantity (we use 100baseBX connections).

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Re: SFP module

by normis » Tue May 15, 2012 9:40 am

hzdrus wrote:Are 100 mbps SFP modules compatible with RB2011LS-IN? This is really important for us and would allow to purchase RB2011LS in quantity (we use 100baseBX connections).


RB2011LS supports any 1.25G SFP transceivers that is within the SFF Committee specifications for SFP Transceivers. We have not tested any 100Mbit modules yet, but - If that transceiver is made according to that specification and don't have specific vendor lock on it - it should work without any problems.

Link speed negotiation is up to transceivers not the cage implementation on the board.
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Re: SFP module

by hzdrus » Tue May 15, 2012 9:52 am

normis wrote:
hzdrus wrote:Are 100 mbps SFP modules compatible with RB2011LS-IN? This is really important for us and would allow to purchase RB2011LS in quantity (we use 100baseBX connections).


RB2011LS supports any 1.25G SFP transceivers that is within the SFF Committee specifications for SFP Transceivers. We have not tested any 100Mbit modules yet, but - If that transceiver is made according to that specification and don't have specific vendor lock on it - it should work without any problems.

Link speed negotiation is up to transceivers not the cage implementation on the board.


So if the SFP has 155M written on it, it is unlikely that it is going to work? Are there any specific keywords I should look for in SFP specification ?

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Re: SFP module

by normis » Tue May 15, 2012 10:05 am

it is unlikely


no, actually quite likely. any standard SFP module should work, it's jut that we have not tried one yet, because we concentrated on Gigabit modules. If anyone has such module to test, please report here.
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Re: SFP module

by troy » Tue May 15, 2012 6:31 pm

I would love to test. I have a variety of 155M SFPs that are itching to get used.

Who's got the 2011 in the US? I want one, and I want it today (well, tomorrow with next-day shipping).

-Troy

EDIT: nevermind... apparently, we're still waiting for FCC approval

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Re: SFP module

by timberwolf » Wed May 16, 2012 8:31 pm

normis wrote:Link speed negotiation is up to transceivers not the cage implementation on the board.

SerDes functionality and therefore linkspeed negotiation usually is the business of the host system, not the optical tranceiver.
The SFP MSA doesn't specify any data rates AFAIK. So are you sure about this, any sources for this statement?

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Re: SFP module

by macgaiver » Thu May 17, 2012 9:57 am

timberwolf wrote:SerDes functionality and therefore linkspeed negotiation usually is the business of the host system, not the optical tranceiver.
The SFP MSA doesn't specify any data rates AFAIK. So are you sure about this, any sources for this statement?


I disagree - SerDes have nothing to do with the actual link establishment between 2 modules, it kicks in only after. SerDes 8B/10B is the reason why 1,25Gbps SFP only handles 1Gbps of actual traffic

Simple examples:
1) RJ45 modules can be 10/100/1000 or 1000 only if trying to connect to 100Mbps device one will work other will not. Board will remain the same
2) you can plug 10Gbps only SFP+ transceivers on RB2011 and they will establish link and work. board will be able to supply only 1Gbps traffic, but link itself will be 10

similar to previous -there are optical modules that support whole range 155M~2,63Gbps - my guess they will use some kind of auto-negotiation to establish the link and link speed.
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Re: SFP module

by timberwolf » Thu May 17, 2012 11:45 am

timberwolf wrote:I disagree - SerDes have nothing to do with the actual link establishment between 2 modules, it kicks in only after. SerDes 8B/10B is the reason why 1,25Gbps SFP only handles 1Gbps of actual traffic

1.25 GBps is just the electrical bandwidth of the tranceiver electronics.

timberwolf wrote:1) RJ45 modules can be 10/100/1000 or 1000 only if trying to connect to 100Mbps device one will work other will not. Board will remain the same

A RJ45 SFP may be a special case, but on Cisco equipment it only handles 10/100 links speeds if the host port you plug it in supports this. Also the SFF MSA doesn't cover RJ45 tranceivers.

macgaiver wrote:2) you can plug 10Gbps only SFP+ transceivers on RB2011 and they will establish link and work. board will be able to supply only 1Gbps traffic, but link itself will be 10

You can plug them in and they will establish a link, but I doubt this link runs on 10GBps. Its just the SFP which supports a high electrical bandwidth, which isn't used in this case.
Try plugging in the other end into a 10GBps only port on a Cisco Nexus for example.

macgaiver wrote:similar to previous -there are optical modules that support whole range 155M~2,63Gbps - my guess they will use some kind of auto-negotiation to establish the link and link speed.

Sure they support electrical bandwidths up to 2,63GBps why shouldn't they supprt lower bandwidths.

The SFP MSA defines just two differential transmit and receive connections (TD+/- and RD+/-), some status lines(Transmitter fault i.e.) and an onboard EEPROM chip to identify the module and its capabilities like max. speed, distance etc. It doesn't define any bit rates or protocol or encoding(just supported encodings). While there are SFPs which are more then just dumb tranceivers, like SFPs which include full POS support and emulate an ethernet link on the eletrical interface, this isn't true for just standard SFP optical tranceivers.
You may have a look at SFF INF-8047 here ftp://ftp.seagate.com/sff/INF-8074.PDF.

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Re: SFP module

by macgaiver » Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm

it looks like there is only one way to find it out - can someone check if

a) RB2011-155M SFP-to-155M SPF-RB2011 link will work??
b) random device with 155M SFP with RB2011 and 155M~2,63Gbps will work?
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Re: SFP module

by pprp1 » Thu May 17, 2012 1:24 pm

Please Include support for Optokon modules .

Finisair is **it if you ask me . Works bad in Cisco and Juniper.

Include also SFP with for one optical fiber. WDM

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Re: SFP module

by timberwolf » Thu May 17, 2012 1:36 pm

The SFPs datasheet might provide some insight, as there are modules which act as a media translator.
I didn't work with those, mainly with 1/10 Gigabit SX and LX SFPs and some "little" larger OC-768/STM-256 tranceivers(1OC768-POS-SR ).

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Re: SFP module

by pprp1 » Thu May 17, 2012 1:43 pm

Does will be support for 100M SFP in CPE ?

Docuemnts for 100M SFP

It is also good to be CPE with 100M and 1GE

When you will make high speed routerboard with 1GE SFP support ?
Like RB1100AH X2 .... we need it
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Re: SFP module

by normis » Thu May 17, 2012 4:01 pm

A few tested devices listed here, users can edit and add on, as usual:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Supported ... FP_modules
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