hap ax2 US, routerOS 7.8, UNII-4 not working

RouterOS General
1

There was a announcement in the newsletter 110: “4) In the USA, hAP ax² supports UNII-4 up to 5895 MHz.”
So I got a hAP ax2 US version (I tried to buy a ROW version but I was not allowed) and put routerOS 7.8 on it and configured it:

/interface wifiwave2 security
add authentication-types=wpa3-psk encryption=ccmp name=sec1
/interface wifiwave2 configuration
add mode=ap name=cfg1 security=sec1 ssid="that one"
/interface wifiwave2
set [ find default-name=wifi1 ] channel.band=5ghz-ax .frequency=5885 .width=20/40/80mhz configuration=cfg1 configuration.mode=ap disabled=no
set [ find default-name=wifi2 ] channel.band=2ghz-ax .frequency=2462 .width=20mhz configuration=cfg1 configuration.mode=ap disabled=no mtu=1500

The ax2 reports that it is working on 5885/ax/eeeC(22dBm).
Unfortunately, I have only 2 devices that might see it. A google Pixel6a that supports Wifi6E, and an Intel AX210 based Wifi card (also Wifi6E). Unfortunately neither of them see the ax2’s 5Ghz Wifi, only it’s 2.4Ghz.
I also tried scanning with the hAP ax3, which I know can’t use those frequencies because of the external antennas, but I thought I might still be able to scan them. It did not list the ax2’s Wifi either.

So I’m wondering if anyone has actually made it work or knows why it doesn’t?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that it works as expected if I choose a frequency outside UNII-4, say 5180 or even one in DFS, like 5680.

2

Unfortunately, I have only 2 devices that might see it. A google Pixel6a that supports Wifi6E, and an Intel AX210 based Wifi card (also Wifi6E). Unfortunately neither of them see the ax2’s 5Ghz Wifi, only it’s 2.4Ghz.

Looks like client device limitation (or region setting) for that UNII-4 band.

I know can’t use those frequencies because of the external antennas

What is the problem? Antenna characteristics? AX3 should see AX2 with same region setting.

3

According to the MikroTik announcement “In the USA, hAP ax² supports UNII-4 up to 5895 MHz. The other announced products can not use
UNII-4 in the US due to the external antennas”
FCC does not allow, apparently. That is the reason I was trying it with the ax2.

/interface/wifiwave2/scan wifi1

Shows many other 5Ghz networks, but not “that one” (the ax2’s network at 5885)

4

And the device you use for scanning is capable of detecting that band ?
If you’re scanning using AX2 itself, it is logical nothing is being showed (it can not send with the same radio it needs to use for the scan).

5

No, that scan is from the ax3 because bpwl expected it to work after I mentioned that MikroTik may have blocked those frequencies because of the external antenna as it says in the announcement.
In my original post I mentioned that the devices that could not see it are a Google Pixel 6a with Wifi6E(5&6Ghz) and an Intel AX210 also Wifi6E with 5&6Ghz support. I do not know if those devices are limited and cant use UNII-4 for some reason, but if they can’t then what can? For now, I only know that they can’t see the ax2’s network at 5885. If only I had a second ax2 or a cAPax…

Is anyone using an ax2 configuration like mine successfully and what devices are used?

6

Release notes for 7.8 state it should also work on ax3.

*) wifiwave2 - enabled additional channels in UNII-3 and UNII-4 bands for Europe and USA on hAP ax^2, hAP ax^3 and Chateau ax;

BUT …
when I check the capabilities of the radio on my AX3, based in Europe, those UNII-4 frequencies are not being listed ??


 
 /interface/wifiwave2/radio print detail
 
 0 L radio-mac=AB:CD:EF:GH:IJ:KL phy-id=0 tx-chains=0,1 rx-chains=0,1 
     bands=5ghz-a:20mhz,5ghz-n:20mhz,20/40mhz,5ghz-ac:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz,
      5ghz-ax:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz 
     ciphers=tkip,ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256,cmac,gmac,cmac-256,gmac-256 
     countries=all 5g-channels=5180,5200,5220,5240,5260,5280,5300,5320,5500,5520,
            5540,5560,5580,5600,5620,5640,5660,5680,5700,5720,5745,5765,5785,5805,
            5825 
     max-vlans=128 max-interfaces=16 max-station-interfaces=3 max-peers=512 
     interface=wifi1

When I try to use those UNII-4 frequencies, it always responds “no supported channels”.
No issues using UNII-3 frequencies, though.

7

I was able to make the Pixel 6a see the network by installing grapheneOS. Strange, I don’t know why factory Android couldn’t see it. It also seems that I’m using outdated software on the desktop as well, and that is probably why the AX210 can’t see it. I’ll have to work on that.
Now that something is able to connect, I’m satisfied the ax2 is working correctly in UNII-4. Sorry for the bother.

8

No problem.
But possibly we found a bug on AX3.

9

What is the problem? Antenna characteristics? AX3 should see AX2 with same region setting.

Oooops regulations, not a technical limit.

Report and Order, PDF, page 29, item 66 : https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-modernizes-59-ghz-band-improve-wi-fi-and-automotive-safety-0

Second, we will require that the access points have integrated antennas(178) or
otherwise prohibit the capability of connecting other antennas to the devices, which will prevent
substituting higher gain directional antennas and make the devices less capable or suitable for outdoor
use.
10

I get similar to you on ax3 US (except country is locked):

 0 L radio-mac=48:A9:8A:0F:XX:XA phy-id=0 tx-chains=0,1 rx-chains=0,1 bands=5ghz-a:20mhz,5ghz-n:20mhz,20/40mhz,5ghz-ac:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz,5ghz-ax:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz 
     ciphers=tkip,ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256,cmac,gmac,cmac-256,gmac-256 countries=Canada,United States 
     5g-channels=5180,5200,5220,5240,5260,5280,5300,5320,5500,5520,5540,5560,5580,5600,5620,5640,5660,5680,5700,5720,5745,5765,5785,5805,5825 max-vlans=128 max-interfaces=16 
     max-station-interfaces=3 max-peers=512 interface=wifi1

And here is my ax2 US:

 0 L radio-mac=48:A9:8A:2C:XX:X6 phy-id=0 tx-chains=0,1 rx-chains=0,1 bands=5ghz-a:20mhz,5ghz-n:20mhz,20/40mhz,5ghz-ac:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz,5ghz-ax:20mhz,20/40mhz,20/40/80mhz 
     ciphers=tkip,ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256,cmac,gmac,cmac-256,gmac-256 countries=Canada,United States 
     5g-channels=5180,5200,5220,5240,5260,5280,5300,5320,5500,5520,5540,5560,5580,5600,5620,5640,5660,5680,5700,5720,5745,5765,5785,5805,5825,5845,5865,5885 max-vlans=128 
     max-interfaces=16 max-station-interfaces=3 max-peers=120 interface=wifi1

Sadly, that is probably why the ax3 could not even see the ax2 in a scan.

11

I understand (and to be honest that was already my thinking as well, I already read before about that antenna limit) but the release notes DO mention it has been enabled for AX3.
So either the release notes are wrong or something is missing.

12

Just to test, I put stock Google Android back on the Pixel and it can not see the ax2 at 5885 again. So weird to me that Google would block that when the phone is capable and AOSP can use it.

13

Not surprised.
AOSP rom versions usually unlock things not available on stock firmware. And they are also faster to enable things.
Might be the next update of firmware adds it as well ?

14

https://www.varia.org/en/unii-frequency-range/

As I read: There is UNII-4 (for all) and UNII-4 above 5875 (with the outdoor and antenna limitation)

15

I’ve seen that one too already.
But none of the mentioned frequencies work on ax3.
Besides, from that article I deduce the limit on external antenna should only apply in FCC- controlled countries.
Not in Europe.

16

I expect that every modern device/OS has to have country limitations built in, just like ROS does. And it seems that FCC insists on clearing individual device types for use on new bands (e.g. U-NII-4) and before it does, device is not allowed to use them. And this includes Google Pixel. After device is cleared to use new band, OS producer has to push update to devices already out (and some producers don’t care about already sold devices much so the update may take a long time to be released).

I don’t understand why WiFi stations should worry about country regulations, after all they should follow AP … but some devices obviously do. I’ve had a close encounter with an LG G4 which didn’t “see” my home WiFi (which is running on channel 13, completely legal in ETSI countries) until I put in SIM card … when phone noticed that it’s in region where channel 13 is legal and it started to “see” WiFi AP.

17

Well, there is such a thing as hotspot…
The client can also act as AP.

18

I’m aware of that and obviously when device runs in AP / hotspot, it has to work according to country regulations. And in that case device has to find out (this way or another) which region it currently is to adapt to local regulatory limits.
This is why I wrote “I don’t understand why WiFi stations should worry about country regulations” … I didn’t write “devices”, I wrote “stations”.


BTW, I just checked my Audience running wifiwave2 in ROS 7.8 … there are some discrepancies in various sections:

/interface/wifiwave2> radio/print detail
Flags: L - local
0 L radio-mac=2C:C8:1B:77:DE:E8 phy-id=0 tx-chains=0,1 rx-chains=0,1
bands=2ghz-g:20mhz,2ghz-n:20mhz,20/40mhz
ciphers=tkip,ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256,cmac,gmac,cmac-256,gmac-256 min-antenna-gain=4
countries=all 2g-channels=2412,2417,2422,2427,2432,2437,2442,2447,2452,2457,2462
max-vlans=1 max-interfaces=16 max-station-interfaces=3 max-peers=513
interface=wifi-2G-vlan42

/interface/wifiwave2> actual-configuration/print
0 name=“wifi-2G-vlan42” mac-address=2C:C8:1B:77:DE:E8 arp-timeout=auto disable-running-check=yes
radio-mac=2C:C8:1B:77:DE:E8
configuration.mode=ap .ssid=“” .country=Slovenia .rrm=yes
security.authentication-types=wpa2-psk,wpa3-psk .encryption=ccmp,gcmp,ccmp-256,gcmp-256
.group-key-update=5m .passphrase=“” .disable-pmkid=yes .wps=disable
.dh-groups=19,20,21 .ft=yes
channel.frequency=2472 > .band=2ghz-n .width=20mhz

Note that list of supported channels in radio section ends at channel 11 and yet AP happily works in channel 13 (I’m connected to it while I’m writing this post).

19

It’s (from certification point of view) a lot easier/safer to leave it completely out instead of first checking which role the device is playing and then act accordingly.
Otherwise we can end up again at something like VW-Diesel-gate :confused:

It’s not consistent, that’s for sure.
What do the 5GHz channels on your Audience device show ?

I tried all UNII-4 frequencies on AX3 (leaving channel width blank, so it should figure it out on its own).
None worked. Always “no supported channels”.
No problems with UNII-3 frequencies, as expected.

20

The “high band” radio lists channels up to 5825MHz (U-NNI-3) on my Audience. I’m not going to use those as U-NNI-3 channels are limited to 14dBm (25mW) in ETSI countries.