hAP ax3 wireless problem … difficult to solve … maybe it is because there is a combination of reasons why it fails.
So far recently if have seen 3 “possible” causes here, when using the ax device out of the box, or after upgrade.. Depending which one hits you, the solution is different. If multiple causes are active, solving only one, will not show good wireless.
Maybe this is in your case, maybe it is not ..
ax2/ax3 chipset with ROS 7.12 onwards allow for the frequencies above 5700MHz. ROS prefers those frequencies They are non-DFS and usually strong TX power allowed (in USA, under FCC region)
ROS 7.13.1 changed the default country to Latvia. The TX power allowed for 2.4GHz now drops from 30 dBm to 20 dBm (10x lower). The allowed TX power for freq above 5700 MHz is now SRD level (SR= short range) or only 14 dBm as for the whole ETSI region. (40x lower). ROS still prefers these frequencies, and uses them if not told otherwise.
the long ear antenna on hAP ac3/ax3 are not with strong gain, and are omnidirectional in 2D for the 2.4GHz , but not for the 5GHz band. In 5 GHz band the sideway gain is 4.7 dB lower (3x lower)
this further reduces the SRD short range to a very very short range. (total TX power reduction is 120x)
ax2/ax3 problems with HW ofloading of the bridge to the IPQ_PPE switch have been reported. Transmission rates greatly reduced.
Very strong USB3 interference is reported on ax3, and can maybe be seen on ac3/ax3 with a scan in the 2.4GHz band on ac3/ax3 (Is it that my phantom high power transmitter with strange 00:00:00:00:80:00 MAC?) Connections repeatedly drop in the 2.4GHz band.
the long ear antenna on hAP ac3/ax3 are not with strong gain, and are omnidirectional in 2D for the 2.4GHz , but not for the 5GHz band. In 5 GHz band the sideway gain is 4.7 dB lower (3x lower)
So, would it be worth the attempt to replace them with something else (even if not particularly high gain but with a better omnidirectionality)?
Yes, all this stuff about antennas is clear as mud.
An old style “rubber ducky” antenna should be inherently omnidirectional, but they seem to have lower gain and even if one can find one with the same gain I wonder if it would make any difference in practice.
I still have to understand - in theory - whether at the same “final” Tx level (within local regulation) it is “better” an increased Tx level and a low gain antenna or a reduced Tx level and higher gain antenna, due to the bi-directional nature of the wifi transmission, let alone in practice.
it is it “better” an increased Tx level and a low gain antenna or a reduced Tx level and higher gain antenna
Difficult one, not an answer but just thoughts…
For the indoor case:
Sending:
EIRP limits the sum of TXpower and gain to the same sum value.
The antenna gain does not gain any TX emitted energy. What is gained in one direction, is lost in another.
So high antenna gain leads to lower TXpower overall. (because of EIRP limit)
Indoors it all bounces around , and you have to pass walls and ceiliings etc. So I would guess that low gain high TXpower is better here
Receiving:
No power sum limit, antenna gain makes RX receiver more sensitive
So I would guess that high gain, because TXpower irrelevant, is better here, if not too much neighbor transmitters.
(interference goes much further than usable/decodable signal)
hi, I have the same issue, tried every possible tweaking but signal is super weak. Question here: your problem was solved by a 4dBi antenna? can you please help with a make / model / maybe a link to the item?
any help appreciated.
After reading this thread the hAP ax3 doesn’t seem so attractive anymore. This is a minefield! I wanted USB, but seemingly it causes some sort of interference. I wanted better Wi-Fi performance, but now the cheaper ax2 appears to perform better. What should I buy? Maybe the hEX S with TP-Link AP’s is the least painful solution?
I recently installed a Unfi Wi-Fi 6 AP at a client. Most time taken was fitting it on the wall. Up and running in 15 minutes, haven’t logged back onto cloud manager in three months since it was installed. Wi-Fi coverage throughout entire office is good.
Mikrotik site - feels like I’m forever in WinBox trying some tweak or other.
I want Mikrotik to succeed, I love the kit, I love the power of RouterOS but once again, Wi-Fi just seems to be letting it down I too have followed this thread with interested but don’t sit at the bottom considering an AX3 anywhere.
Installing a single Mikeotik AP is probably a 15min job as well. Default config with default wifi. That’s basically what Unifi does when selecting “auto” everywhere.
Hmm even with a device destined for use 99% of the time as an access point, the cAP ac comes preconfigured as a router doesn’t it? Plug it into the existing network and open WinBox and AFAIK it won’t appear as neighbourhood defaults to LAN. So you have to either connect to the other port (darn, I’ve already put it on the wall) or the default open Wi-Fi. Then AFAIK there isn’t a quick set to convert it into a switch with access point so you have to do a reset with no default configuration - at least now it’s visible on the main network. Then add a bridge, add ports to bridge & add DHCP client to bridge. Now you’ve actually got an access point where you can start to think about configuring the wireless. Because you’ve had to do a default configuration, the Wi-Fi parameters (certainly on ROS v6) are all wrong so you have to change quite a few before you finally get a working access point.
Now I agree as an reasonably experienced Router OS user, the above probably could be done in 15 minutes but for anyone else, that is a complete nightmare to just get an access point working. Could take them hours and there is so much to get wrong.
Compare to UnfiFi access point with pre-setup cloud controller - plug it in…
Only thing you might do is logon to the console and rename the access point. Maybe change the Wi-Fi name and password as you didn’t get it right when setting up the cloud controller.
Yes, I know that you should probably learn the trick of putting it into CAPsMAN mode first and then turning off CAPsMAN - that effectively turns it into a switch/access point. But that’s not something easily guessed. It’s also possible that there is a working Quick Set these days - not sure looking at this but nothing jumps out at me.
However, my comment wasn’t specifically about initial set-up - it’s more around the many posts here about newer AX devices like this one.
But given all the above, one was slightly disappointed when Mikrotik appeared to can the idea of a controller system akin to UniFi Cloud Controller. It would allow them to complete in the SOHO market much more effectively. However, I can fully understand they have limited resources and that maybe this isn’t a market they’re particularly interested in.
If it is a resource issues, wouldn’t it be a wonderful Open Source project??? There are many very knowledgeable people on here.
It comes pre-configured in caps-mode from factory. You connect it to your network with running capsman, power up the cap-ac and it is connecting to your capsman server. Provisioned. Done.
If you power it up first time and it does not find a capsman server → then it applies default configuration and that is “standalone AP” basically. In case you did that mistake, no problem: just unplug, hold reset button, re-plug and hold the button 5sec. It’s now in caps-mode again and gets provisioned (if capsman server on LAN found).
Compare to UnfiFi access point with pre-setup cloud controller - plug it in…
for a single AP not even capsman needed. Boot cap ac, connect winbox, configure, done. leave for 3 months and still up and running.when you return. All in the same time you download and “boot” the unifi network server.
What is the result? The flagship ax3 has worse wi-fi than the older and cheaper ax2, right?
Unfortunately, I have already ordered ax3, it is a pity that I did not read this topic earlier (
Do you have any comments from Mikrotik employees? Is it possible that some other antennas will be installed in the new revisions of this router?
I can only talk as a user having multiple AX2 and AX3 installed in various places and contexts but this is not true in my experience.
AX3 IS better wifi wise then AX2.
Where I used to live before, house with THICK concrete walls and floorings, I tested this multiple times and each time AX3 came out on top vs AX2.
The flagship ax3 has worse wi-fi than the older and cheaper ax2, right?
Not really worse, different is the better expression.
Higher antenna gain is better wifi, is a MT developers/engineers/marketing hoax.
It’s different wifi. Reception is certainly better.
The transmit wifi power is in most cases limited by EIRP regulation.
It is that same maximum, for all antenna. Only with directional antenna (with higher antenna gain) that transmitted maximum is ONLY in the peak direction. It is lower in all other directions. The total amount of wifi radio energy transmitted is LOWER with HIGHER antenna gain. Those Antennae are passive devices , they do not ADD any energy to the transmitted signal.
The hAP ax3/ac3 antenna are not really omnidirectional even not in the 2D plane. There is an important difference of almost 4.7dB in the 5GHz band with the flat panel design. See http://forum.mikrotik.com/t/hap-ax3-wireless-problem/172468/1 and the discussions there.
Being directional is not always a good thing e.g. if you have to pass walls indoors. The path of the radio waves is not LOS, and the sum of all directions can then be more important than the directed signal.
I’ve just taken delivery of a cAP ac and I’m afraid it not configured in CAPs mode. It’s definitely in router mode:
Sure, it’s not difficult to connect to it’s default Wi-Fi which means it then appears in WinBox from where you can reset to CAPs mode. But the whole point of this aside was ease of use. Work in IT long enough and you know people don’t read instructions. So a device that’s going to be use 99% of the time as an access point shouldn’t be in router mode. But as I said, maybe Mikrotik aren’t interested in the SOHO business which is fine.
I too have followed this thread with interested but don’t sit at the bottom considering an AX3 anywhere.
