I have a client who doesn’t have any existing infrastructure on site, the ISP is telling him that it will cost him over $5,000 to install services on his property. The ISP said he is allowed to use the ISP free wifi that is in the area (down the street) if he wants and was given the username/password for the free wifi.
Can anyone recommend a transceiver that I can point in the direction of the wifi and that will allow me to connect/provide internet at my client’s property? I’ve never tried this before but wondering if anyone can give me some suggestions as to what 'tik hardware might work.
I won’t be able to do point to point, as I won’t be able to install any radios/equipment down the street.
Thanks in advance.
If you can see the wifi on any normal device (computer/phone), there should be no problem with any wireless device from mikrotik range. However, I would definitely suggest to look for unidirectional models (or model with external antena and then buy unidirectional antenna). The reason is to improve signal as much as possible by using antenna with high gain.
Cheapest solution might be for example LDF 5 or LDF 2 (depends which band is provided by ISP and how much interference is on each band)
It is really small device which can be easily mounted anywhere on outside wall/window without causing too much distraction. It has integrated 9-10dBi antenna so you just connect cable, mount it and point it approximately towards place where ISP wifi is and thats it. In case the signal is not strong enough, this model is actually designed to be mounted in usual satellite dish which would give you massive 30dBi gain. This should be suitable for short range (without satellite dish) and long range (with satellite dish) connections with speed up to 100Mbit.
If you want to avoid possible complications, it would be better to get skilled person on site to assess the situation. If you can’t (or you just want to do it by yourself), here is short summary what I would do:
- find out what band and frequency is available from ISP
- decide where to put your wireless device - ideal place is bit further from wall/roof to avoid fresnel zone with clear line of sight to ISP’s antennas.
- If possible, measure signal and interference at your place, where you expect to mount your wireless device. I am using GrooveA 52 (with both omni and unidirectional antennas) because it support not just scanning for wifi but also full-blown spectral scan (so it picks up even non-wifi interference).
- Compare expectations with measurement to verify signal strength and noise floor. Based on this data, decide how much gain your antenna needs
- Get proper hardware
- ???
- Profit
At the moment, I am unable to provide you more specific recommendation as you did not share much info.
Thanks for the reply. My original post was just a summary from what the client had told me. I am going to the site today to try and get some more info/details.
After doing a bit of research after I posted, I believe the wifi down the street is being provided for free because another company has the ISP ‘smart wifi’. I believe they have a cisco AP that is providing a private wifi for the clients down the street and they have an open SSID for the public.
The AP is most likely inside a commercial complex. I’m guessing concrete / steel / metal building. (i’ll determine this once I go to the site). But if it has a strong signal on the outside of the building, I’m hoping to get a dish / radio and just point it to the building that has the ‘smart wifi’. I’m not sure if the public SSID is 2.4 Ghz or 5Ghz.
The client already knows this isn’t the best option and is willing to try it, even though he knows if the other company cancels their internet he will lose the free SSID. He says there are other companies in the area that have that free wifi so he could always just point his dish at another building that has the free SSID.
If this was my property, I’d just pay the install fee to ensure I have reliable internet but he’s gone over budget for this project and wants to keep costs down.
I hope to have more info later today.
I’m hoping this info will help narrow down any suggestions you may have.
My client installed a 30 ft pole at the corner of his property, the top of the pole can be used to mount a dish. The open wifi is approx. 200 ft down the street. Standing next to the building that has the open wifi i have approx -70db as a signal.
The open wifi is broadcasting on both the 2.4Ghz and 5.0 Ghz frequency. When checking the channels/ frequencies I noticed that the 2.4Ghz either has two SSID or they were channel hopping a lot because it showed both channel 1 and 6 were being used. I’m not sure how reliable the 2.4Ghz frequency / SSID is going to be because it seemed to drop out quite a bit with SSIDer. The 5.0Ghz frequency was slightly worse for signal levels but it didn’t drop out while I was standing in front of the business with the open wifi.
There is 6 other SSID in the area.
The client knows its a long shot but wants to try it just to see. Any suggestions on which antenna / radio would be a something good to try I’d appreciate any suggestions.
I hoped that there is proper sector antenna on pole. If it is just free wifi from AP somewhere inside of the building, I am afraid it will be not really good connection.
It is also hard to do any calculation when there is no knowledge about power and position of the AP. (for example when you stand in front of business, there might be just one wall between you and AP, but if you come from angle, there might be two or three walls which have significant impact on signal)
If I ignore all these unknown variables and calculate just what we have, it goes like this:
- you are in front of business with AP, having -70dB Rx power.
- Tx Power, Tx Gain and Rx Gain are unknown (assuming 1W Tx power, 2dBi Tx gain and 2dBi Rx gain)
- Distance from AP is unknown (assuming 10 meters)
In ideal conditions with specified/assumed numbers, you should be receiving -26dB, but you are getting -70dB. Therefore there is around 44dB of unaccounted attenuation (probably due to walls or other effects). Lets assume this number as constant and do same calculation for your building:
- Distance from building increased by 200 feet = 60 meter. Distance from AP is assumed 60+10 = 70 meters
- Assume everything else is same.
- You should get -86dB of Rx power with your laptop which is obviously insufficient.
(alternative calculation might result in -99dB of Rx power if we assume 0.1W Tx power and 2 meter distance from AP when you stand in front of their building)
However now, we can add into account gain from the directional antenna:
- if you get mentioned LDF model, you can add additional 7dBi of Rx Gain, which will result in -79dB of Rx power which might work in ideal conditions on this distance or if ISP provided sector/directional antenna. but I would not bet on it in real world with AP in the building.
- if you get LDF with dish, then you can expect additional 28dBi of Rx Gain, which would result in -58dB of Rx power which might be sufficient.
- if you get other model, you simply add the antenna gain to get the result. However, I don’t think there will be any with such narrow beam and large surface, as if you install the 100cm TV satellite dish.
- we might look for mikrotik without integrated antenna and get external directional high-gain antenna…
(disclaimer - those numbers are calculated almost out of thin air - too many assumptions were made and they may be incorrect. For example if the AP is just 0.1W and it is just 2 meter from you when you stand in front of their building, then you will end up with -99dB at your place which would be barely enough even for LDF with dish. Any other model with integrated antenna would have no chance)
Maybe I did not stress it enough before - every Mikrotik wireless model can be configured for your purpose. So we are not really looking for model with right functions, instead all we need is enough gain and power. I think highest-powered devices from range are Netbox 5 and Metal 52 ac. If you combine them with some large high-gain antenna (30dBi+), it would give you best chances. Those models would give you up to 31dBm of Tx power which is 6dB more than LDF. It would be good to keep in mind that there might be some laws at your country about maximum power etc.. Better to check them as devices with 31dBm with 30dB antenna equals up to 1.3kW of power along the path of signal. That can cause serious interference as well as health issues if you stand in the line of signal. As you are going to point it towards area full of people, I am starting to realize this is maybe not really great idea.
With that said, I would prefer other people express their thoughts as well. I might be wrong with my assumptions and it would be unfortunate if you waste money and time due to incorrect suggestion. (Four eyes see more than two, right?)
At the pole (on a ladder if needed), can you ‘see’ the 5 GHz signal in Wifi Analyzer on your phone? If it’s e.g. -90 dBm, you won’t be able to connect, but it will give you a good idea of how much additional gain is needed. If you’re -90 or stronger, a https://mikrotik.com/product/rbdisc_5nd (or https://mikrotik.com/product/disc_lite5_ac if the AP has 802.11ac or is likely to be upgraded) should be fine. If you need more gain than that, consider e.g. https://mikrotik.com/product/ldf_5_ac with an external reflector or https://mikrotik.com/product/RBGrooveG-52HPacn with an external grid dish antenna. Assuming that download speed is more important than upload, there is no reason to choose a high power device; the former will be limited by the AP’s power.
What alternatives does your client have? What speeds does he need/want? For example, if he can get 5 Mbps DSL and the ‘ghetto’ cable connection gives him 10 Mbps but with much lower reliability, DSL is probably the better choice.
Do the login credentials belong to the client (because he has service with the same ISP at home or at another office)? If not, he is at risk that the owner will change the password and he won’t be able to quickly obtain the new one. Also, note that the Wi-Fi connection is ‘open’ (unencrypted), so any traffic that is not otherwise encrypted (by HTTPS, VPN, etc.) can be easily snooped. Where is the ‘public’ AP located? I hope it’s in a profitable business with a long term lease. What floor is it on? If the ground floor, a big truck parked in the wrong place may block signal. Any seasonal vegetation that may cause trouble? How does the login get ‘remembered’? With luck, once authenticated the client MAC address is whitelisted. With other methods, e.g. cookies, it may be necessary to periodically log in again. This would cause automated devices (VPN, security cameras, etc.) to be down until another login is performed. How much load is presented by the subscriber paying for the gateway? This will take priority over the ‘public’ access and may cause trouble such as making VoIP conversations unusable or streaming video to buffer.
Possibly, your client can make a business arrangement with this tenant or another in the building to ‘host’ his internet connection. He’d have a properly secured and sufficiently powerful AP, e.g. located in a window facing his property. If the ISP’s terms of service permit, he might share the host’s internet connection; otherwise he’d need a separate subscription and modem. On a low budget, he might be able to do this as a trade; for example a barber would provide haircuts for the host, as long as the modem and AP remain in place.