Thanks,
http://forum.mikrotik.com/t/using-routeros-to-vlan-your-network/126489/1
this and the examples given there were all I needed, a little bit of adaptation for my situation and my interfaces, and all 3 devices are working now
this post should have turned up much higher in VLAN searches, I did not see this one.
ps: mermaid the way I used it is free - you can create a diagram with an (editable) link any time without even logins