Some good rules of thumb when it comes to electronic or radio noise out speakers:
If the two devices are very close to each other, then you may get some cross-talk. If you double the distance, then you might cut the noise in half.
Try putting a metal ferried bead around all cables (over the power cables and the speaker cables and all audio cables). The metal bead functions like a choke to block high-frequency noise.
Try grounding everything possible.
Very high power and/or very close side-by-side electronics will often have some from of noise to the other device.
If possible, you might try flipping the power cord 180 degrees where it connects to the wall.
- If none of the above helps - then try these steps: Wrap everything in foil, ground the foil, put everything in separate solid metal trash cans with the lids on. Ooo - and also ground the trash cans using a #1 copper wire
Yea - I totally know what your are saying about noise.
I have one remote location where my APs are about 500 feet from a multi-million watt military radar over-the-horizon system. You want noise - this is it. Even an Ethernet cable tester connected to both ends of a cable (not connected to equipment) shows the cable is active !
To somewhat remedy the noise problem, I used grounded metal shield backings on my antennas to shield the antennas from the radar. I also had to run my shielded Ethernet cables down the tower where the cable is located on the opposite side of the radar - thus I am using the tower legs to help shield and block the microwave from getting to my Ethernet cables. I also had to ground the shields on my shielded Ethernet cables in multiple places. Also, the building at the bottom of the tower is wrapped with a copper/metal screen mesh to help keep the radar microwave signals out of the building. The building has double metal doors where you open one metal door then close it behind you as you enter the building then you open the next inner metal door. Inside the building, everything possible is grounded.
I don’t care for working up on the tower, I know it can’t be good for your health - unless you are working on very cold day and want to stay warm - almost like a fly inside a microwave oven - lol
Re - the rubber pipe
I tried that several times and it fried both ends of the equipment on the Ethernet several times - and I could not pass 10 or 100 meg full duplex Ethernet traffic without heavy data errors.
With the way I have things grounded now, with the non-POE ports, I can now pass 1 gig full duplex with very few data errors. If I try running the POE ports at anything beyond 10 meg, I still get high data errors. So I now use at least two Ethernet cables - the POE port for power only and a second (and sometimes a third) Ethernet port(s) for data.
Next time I am up there I will take some photos of our tower and the surroundings - elevation almost 4300 feet.
Right now, there is 5 to 7 feet of snow up there. (FYI - there is also a door on the roof so that we can get in when the snow is really deep)
Some idea; Install Netmetal radios. Use ethernet cable for POE-in only+backup, run fibre from central to the radio. No more issues on the ethernet side… now you can focus on the radio signals…
(About the Radar, wouldn’t it melt the snow away for you? )
re: (About the Radar, wouldn’t it melt the snow away for you?
I can’t help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.
I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.
Well, if the bird starts to smoke in full flight I think he is signalling dinner is ready…
But yeah, most radars are revolving, so the beam is only pointed in some direction for a split second. And they will have a safety distance off course. I don’t presume anybody is allowed to run in front of the radar for a while at relative short distance on a military installation.
But electronics might get a burst each time the signal beam will pass close or hit it/the building…
Although this is a military radar system with some FAA use also, I heard it is also a phased array system. Where the inside will rotate on a round track and the antenna on the track is a multi-frequencyphased-array set of panel antennas. Which allows the rotating track antenna to stop rotating and still have a decent over-the-horizon radar information.
FYI - I have 16 huge 180 pound 2.4 GHz phased-array 802.11 b/g systems from Vivato. They are still the most powerful point-to-multipoint 2.4 FCC licensed system out there. They managed to get them FCC registered as point-to-point which allows for higher power. Using a stock notebook computer, I could connect at 10 miles away (in a 90 degree beamwidth). Vivato went out of business because nobody could get past the price of $30K per AP. Each AP needed 48 volts at 400 watts.
have you ever saw some new SOHO Wi-Fi routers ? 6x antennas !! 8x antennas !! and announced development of router with 10x and 12x !!!(but 4x and 6x of them advertised as “internal”, Godness
thats crazy ! (and crazy-looking IMHO and eventually become mainstream so routers/AP become AFAR-alike radars in many respects. its Already in standard. all those “beam-froming” and aligned to, features…
just need bit more powerful CPU for calculations in radios and here you go … fully manageable/adaptable in time/space/spectrum
A bit unrelated - however …
Around 5 to 8 years ago … I had some people here testing out a Google branded SOHO indoor Wi-Fi wireless router. I think it had something like 8 internal antennas with some special kind of a directional diversity chip in it. We drove out 12 miles from one of my towers, then placed it on the hood of my vehicle and got a connection. My tower had a Vivato phased beam steering 2.4 GHz connection with the Google Wi-Fi at 11 meg 802.11 B mode. The Google Wi-Fi was pretty awesome for a SOHO with no external antenna(s). (FYI - I believe the Vivato base station is still the most powerful legal 2.4 GHz base-station access-point on the planet - because it functions as a sector multi-point but because of the beam forming directional steering of the signals, it was registered as a point-to-point system which can then use the higher power FCC regulations/laws. FYI - A tower mounted 2.4 GHz Vivato weighs in at 180 pounds !!!
I can only assume the newer stuff these days is far better than the stuff we had back then.
Look, if you make the antenna big enough versus you put enough power behind it you can reach the moon. That’s not an issue.
In regard to the amount of antenna, Ruckus already had 3 years ago 24stream ‘n’ multi-mimo system with beamforming. Browse for some pictures and you can count them yourself, all internal.
But because they’d work withing the regulatory domain my laptop in the open field lost connection after 100 meters. (And had to walk back 25 meters to get it back again, that’s the disadvantage of beam forming. If the beam is lost there is no more beam…)
If you are talking about complying with FCC rules and regulations for point-to-point and multi-point 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi connections, there is a huge difference.
FCC rules for multi-point (sector) 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi networks requires that for every 3-db of antenna gain, you must lower the radio transmit power by 3-db.
FCC rules for point-to-point 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi networks requires that for every 3-db of antenna gain, you must lower the radio transmit power by 1-db.
Thus - a point-to-point system following FCC rules and regulations will always give you a stronger signal.
Additional info and thoughts …
a) A multi-point system is also subject to more noise because it has a wider area that is can also hear. Thus no matter how much power you use to transmit with, if you can’t hear the remote side because of local noise the network will have a lower SNR (signal to noise ratio).
b) The Vivato beam forming base stations I still have and use not only steer the transmit beam, but it also steers the direction you are listening from.
c) A Vivato (used in a multi-point environment) also will talk (transmit) to up to two clients at the same time - and can listen to up to two clientsat the came time. (on the same channel)
d) A Vivato could handle 1,500 client Wi-Fi connections and still function.
The only reason Vivato went out of business is because buyers of long-reach Wi-Fi systems did not understand what the Vivato was actually doing and could not justify $30,000 dollars for an access-point.
About 9 years ago, we had some DOD (Military Department-of-Defense) engineers testing our 17 Vivato coverage in a 600 square mile coverage area. They were blown-away by how well the system worked. Thus the Military became one of Vivato’s largest customers.
If is sounds like I am a Vivato fan - sorry about that - I am a huge Mikrotik NV2 fan with thousands of Mikrotiks in my network these days.
Isn’t it all about the money in the end?
If we see here in Europe people are getting used to € 30,-/month for 10, 20 or up to 100megs nowadays, the earning model becomes more and more difficult.
I’ll bet these Vivato CPE’s weren’t cheap neither…if they already had beamforming.
I’ve been testing some Ruckus stuff two years ago and although impressive in their prospects and many new technologies (beam forming, frequency hopping, band sharing, interference avoidance etc.) their price policy is such it doesn’t make it interesting for bulk roll outs as we see with MT and Ubnt.
I have been tempted for a while to go for the eCambium product line but if I am to swap my network to something new I might as well go for something new that offers all in Wifi (a/c, beamforming and high capacity chipsets, GPS and smart noise reduction) at the same time. So I hope to deploy a Mimosa AP with some 70 clients within a month or two and got sort of guarantee I should be able to offer top speeds upto 50Meg and total aggregated throughput of over 1Gig per AP. Let’s see how that works out. If it fails I lost a lot of money. If it works I’l probably say goodbye to MT-wifi in most of my network. (Their routers are still nice…)
I’d love MT but we are in such a high density spectrum with so many competition (mainly ubnt) I need something to stand out to still get my clients…
You are totally dead-on correct with the earning model being more and more difficult these days.
I am fortunate in one way that I have just about zero WISP competitors. My business is owned by the Coeur d’Alene indian tribe here in North Idaho. We have close to 400 square miles and my customers have little choice for who to go to for Internet. Other than my company, customers can use a dish satellite company or a cell phone company data plan - both are very expensive if you move lots of data.
My only real problem is that 10+ years ago we started out with thousands of older B/G 802.11 networks in the 2.4 GHz band. Now days, the 2.4 GHz band is saturated with customer owned home wireless Wi-Fi networks - which has resulted in the 2.4 GHz band becoming un-stable for Wi-Fi connections from my towers to the customer homes. Within the last 2 years we have almost completed migrating most customers to fiber (fiber to the home) or to the 5Ghz bands using Mikrotik NV2 protocols. With 5GHz Mikrotiks we offer account speeds up to 25 meg - and with fiber we offer speeds up to 1 Gig or faster (10-gig possible).
Ruckus is some good stuff if you want to follow industry compatible protocols where just about any Wi-Fi device can connect up. One of my customers is an engineer/manager with Ruckus - and we had a good long talk about what I am doing and what Ruckus is doing.
Hi all, I felt the key issues here is the freshnel zone which would be better if you fully cleared them either by raising the height of either end points, a little bit higher such as 10-metre instead of 5-metre currently and that would improves your radio connectivity right away. Hope it helps.
)
