Community discussions

MikroTik App
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:33 pm

I've bought a Huawei e3372h-320 USB LTE modem which doesn't work with v6.48.2 - known problem reported several times on here. Solutions are a) send it back, b) switch it to stick mode and c) use RouterOS v7. It indeed works fine with RouterOS v7 and at first glance, everything I need it to do seems to work. Switching to stick mode feels like a step backwards.

Couple of questions on v7 - when is the planned launch date of the non-beta version and would I be mad to consider installing it in production?

It will be used at a wedding venue where they want a failover for their payment card readers - they are going cash-only when they are allowed to re-open in the UK. Their leased line connection is very reliable but it would be even worse if the router failed so they couldn't take payments.
Last edited by robmaltsystems on Wed May 12, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:34 pm

Ohh there is a (d) - use some rather sketchy looking alternative firmware for the E3372h. I love a challenge but this really does need to work :-)
Last edited by robmaltsystems on Wed May 12, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Very wrong question...

The 7.12 long-term are expected on 2041:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=149907&p=856818&hil ... rm#p856818
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:38 pm

2041!!!
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:41 pm

2041!!!
I'ts a joke that "is'a a joke"
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
User avatar
memelchenkov
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:00 pm
Contact:

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 1:46 pm

Couple of questions on v7 - when is the planned launch date of the non-beta version and would I be mad to consider installing it in production?
Forget. It's still alpha quality, even not beta. However, it works quite stable for some basic things. But advanced RouterOS features do not work at all.
 
OvcaX
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 7:29 pm

Yes sadly RouterOS progress is painfully slow and Mikrotik is becoming a joke.

I love the hardware but if they will not get the focus and start with clear RouterOS roadmap we will have to change the vendor.
 
User avatar
rextended
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:49 pm
Location: Capalbio, Tuscany, Italy

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 7:54 pm

I want "Ubiquiti" processors with "Cambium" radios, "RF Elements" antennas and MikroTik RouterOS.

Cambium and Ubiquiti software for me su...

RouterOS is perennial beta, but if are accepted as-is, work.
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Wed May 12, 2021 11:14 pm

Rather a depressing series of posts. My background has never really been on the network side although I was quite adept at Juniper firewalls. So I've never got seriously involved in high-end Cisco kit leaving that to my network specialist. Is Cisco or anyone else as programmable as RouterOS? I know most of the Ubiquiti kit I've used isn't anything special configuration wise.

If RouterOS did fade away, I think the world would have lost a bit of a shining star. But then again, not the first time the "best" hasn't won in the long run :-(
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 2:48 am

If RouterOS did fade away, I think the world would have lost a bit of a shining star. But then again, not the first time the "best" hasn't won in the long run :-(
I wouldn't be too worried about that. I have a fairly complex setup at home and aside from a few things RouterOS v7 is stable enough for me at home - it only recently became stable enough with the beta5 release. Previously I would try to run it and I would get spontaneous reboots every day or sometimes more often. I think we are likely to see a first "stable" release early next year, at the rate things have been going. There isn't actually that much more they have to do - the biggest missing piece was MPLS which was added in the latest beta. Now they just have to tackle the remaining bugs or features not fully implemented.

That said, like the others, I would not suggest using v7beta in any mission critical situation. So for your particular use case, I would recommend playing it safe and using RouterOS v6 if you can.
 
r00t
Member
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:14 am

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 3:40 am

It's been 2 months since last v7 beta... if anything, development is slowing down... sad to see this.
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 4:08 am

It's been 2 months since last v7 beta... if anything, development is slowing down... sad to see this.
Look at the time between the previous betas:

7.1beta1->7.1beta2: 1 month
7.1beta2->7.1beta3: over 3 months
7.1beta3->7.1beta4: 2 months
7.1beta4->7.1beta5: 1.5 months

As of this post, it has been less than two months since the 7.1beta5 release. The time between betas has been fluctuating, no evidence that development has been slowing down. The important thing is what features they have been adding in the new betas in that amount of time, which is actually quite a bit.
 
huntermic
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 7:20 am

If RouterOS did fade away, I think the world would have lost a bit of a shining star. But then again, not the first time the "best" hasn't won in the long run :-(
I wouldn't be too worried about that. I have a fairly complex setup at home and aside from a few things RouterOS v7 is stable enough for me at home - it only recently became stable enough with the beta5 release. Previously I would try to run it and I would get spontaneous reboots every day or sometimes more often. I think we are likely to see a first "stable" release early next year, at the rate things have been going. There isn't actually that much more they have to do - the biggest missing piece was MPLS which was added in the latest beta. Now they just have to tackle the remaining bugs or features not fully implemented.

That said, like the others, I would not suggest using v7beta in any mission critical situation. So for your particular use case, I would recommend playing it safe and using RouterOS v6 if you can.
More features are missing like IGMP-proxy
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 7:28 am

More features are missing like IGMP-proxy
Which is not something I would consider a major feature. At the moment they mostly have to finish filling in the blanks - all of the minor features, or fixing bugs with the major features.
 
huntermic
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 7:34 am

More features are missing like IGMP-proxy
Which is not something I would consider a major feature. At the moment they mostly have to finish filling in the blanks - all of the minor features, or fixing bugs with the major features.
Well, for people like me who need this to be able to use the router to watch tv over a fiber connnection ( using a separate vlan ) it is a real showstopper.
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5981
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 8:32 am

There are two things that are not great with ROSv7:
  1. stability and functionality which is already available in v6. This is the important one and should definitely be worked on first to roll out v7 (sort of a stable release). It will form a good base for further development which was increasingly troublesome in v6 due to it's aged base
  2. new features (such as IGMP proxy or wave2 wifi) which are important to some users and should be developed eventually. However new features are not IMHO as important as things mentioned in previous bullet.

I certainly hope MT devs are focusing on bullet #1 because any new features without stable base are completely useless to most users.
BR,
Metod
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 8:42 am

I certainly hope MT devs are focusing on bullet #1 because any new features without stable base are completely useless to most users.
Yes, this is the same thing that I was pointing out to others. Everybody was asking for new features right away like ipsec VTI and other such things. I do want to see new features, and appreciate the new features like wireguard and VXLAN but the sooner that ROS v7 stabilizes the sooner that we can all benefit from the new kernel.

I do think MikroTik is focusing on #1 but there is a vocal minority of users who seem to want MikroTik to instead be focusing on adding every new kitchen sink feature before the first stable release.
 
huntermic
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 8:57 am

I certainly hope MT devs are focusing on bullet #1 because any new features without stable base are completely useless to most users.
Yes, this is the same thing that I was pointing out to others. Everybody was asking for new features right away like ipsec VTI and other such things. I do want to see new features, and appreciate the new features like wireguard and VXLAN but the sooner that ROS v7 stabilizes the sooner that we can all benefit from the new kernel.

I do think MikroTik is focusing on #1 but there is a vocal minority of users who seem to want MikroTik to instead be focusing on adding every new kitchen sink feature before the first stable release.
I can agree with this regarding new features, but IGMP-proxy is a feature that allready was in ROS, maybe not a core function so the focus should be on core functionality and stability and then on already existing features and only then on totally new stuff.
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 9:25 am

I can agree with this regarding new features, but IGMP-proxy is a feature that allready was in ROS, maybe not a core function so the focus should be on core functionality and stability and then on already existing features and only then on totally new stuff.
I can't see igmp-proxy taking anywhere near as long as MPLS to implement on ROS 7. I strongly suspect, aside from fixing bugs in MPLS/OSPF/BGP, that those are the sorts of features that are likely to be tackled next.
 
UpRunTech
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 11:33 am

Ohh there is a (d) - use some rather sketchy looking alternative firmware for the E3372h. I love a challenge but this really does need to work :-)
Have a look at my recent post about getting LTE failover working in a Chateau. You could adapt it for your LTE module. Recursive routing doesn't work like the Olden Days in ROS7, yet. I needed it to be robust so that it works reliably at a hotel and the staff don't get a in flap when the WAN goes down and they can still do email and bookings and VoIP calls over LTE.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 11:35 am

That said, like the others, I would not suggest using v7beta in any mission critical situation. So for your particular use case, I would recommend playing it safe and using RouterOS v6 if you can.
Yes, having pondered on this - stability is #1 priority; can't have people not been able to pay their bar bill! So I'll send the USB modem back and seek one that works with v6.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 11:37 am

Another idle question - what was the drive for v7? I get the impression that they've started again from ground zero if they are adding features back in? Was this to get a cleaner code base? As a one-time programmer, I can relate to that. Or was it to add some new super functionality? As RouterOS v6 seems to do more than I'll ever want, I'd be interested if there is a must-have feature in v7.
 
LSan83
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:35 am
Location: Italy

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 1:17 pm

Another idle question - what was the drive for v7? I get the impression that they've started again from ground zero if they are adding features back in? Was this to get a cleaner code base?
Shift from an heavy customized kernel 3.3.5 to a new heavy customized kernel 5.6.3 (since 7.0beta7. The first beta was on 4.14.131).
The old kernel just can't keep the new features/chipset.... Look at wireguard for example.
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5981
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 2:25 pm

Shift from an heavy customized kernel 3.3.5 to a new heavy customized kernel 5.6.3

Hopefully less heavy customized kernel. As the rumours go, wireless drivers in v6 were all in-house development. Seems like MT is going to use stock (wireless chip vendors') drivers at least for wave2-capable wireless cards. But there are features (I've heard some advanced routing etc.) which rely on now-defunct part of kernel API and these have to be rewritten to use current kernel API.

Another huge thing seems to be the fact that stock kernels dropped support for Tilera platform a while ago. MT is eager to continue support for it (required for keeping CCR1xxx line alive) and I guess they'll have to port kernel of choice to Tilera themselves ...
BR,
Metod
 
User avatar
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7333
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 2:28 pm

It's been 2 months since last v7 beta... if anything, development is slowing down... sad to see this.
Look at the time between the previous betas:

7.1beta1->7.1beta2: 1 month
7.1beta2->7.1beta3: over 3 months
7.1beta3->7.1beta4: 2 months
7.1beta4->7.1beta5: 1.5 months

As of this post, it has been less than two months since the 7.1beta5 release. The time between betas has been fluctuating, no evidence that development has been slowing down. The important thing is what features they have been adding in the new betas in that amount of time, which is actually quite a bit.
Nicely stated charming Mudman, r00t should go back into the earth and hide (where roots belong) for being whiny and bringing a false argument to the table.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
MTUNA Certified, by the Ascerbic Llama!
 
User avatar
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7333
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 2:37 pm

Shift from an heavy customized kernel 3.3.5 to a new heavy customized kernel 5.6.3

Hopefully less heavy customized kernel. As the rumours go, wireless drivers in v6 were all in-house development. Seems like MT is going to use stock (wireless chip vendors') drivers at least for wave2-capable wireless cards. But there are features (I've heard some advanced routing etc.) which rely on now-defunct part of kernel API and these have to be rewritten to use current kernel API.

Another huge thing seems to be the fact that stock kernels dropped support for Tilera platform a while ago. MT is eager to continue support for it (required for keeping CCR1xxx line alive) and I guess they'll have to port kernel of choice to Tilera themselves ...
Ouch you hurt my CCRs feelings, but more importantly I can see how that added a whole layer of extra work for them to keep keep an additional fork up to date.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
MTUNA Certified, by the Ascerbic Llama!
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 8:33 pm

I don't get the sense that most of the work and long delays in getting v7 ready don't necessarily have as much to do with the kernel customizations, and have more to do with the rewrite of the routing engine. In ROS 6 and earlier, it seems like MikroTik had bet the bank on the route caching feature in the Linux kernel. They put route caching at the core of the entire routing engine and designed the routing protocols in such a way that the router would not even work without route caching. If you try turning off route caching in ROS 6 today, a lot of different things no longer work as expected. This dependency on the route caching feature wound up being a mistake in hindsight as route caching was removed in Linux kernel 3.6. This prevented upgrades to a newer Linux kernel until they rewrote the entire routing engine and redesigned and rewrote all routing protocols from scratch. This could not be done overnight, and the result was talk of a future v7 for years like it was a mythical unicorn.

If the older routing protocols and engine were not designed around route caching, we probably would be on a much more modern kernel already.

(Mind you, I don't think they have ever out and out given this explanation, but the fact that ROS6 is basically running on the final kernel version that had route caching in place before it was removed, combined with the generally bad things that seem to happen if you try to disable route caching in ROS 6, strongly implies that this is the main reason we never had kernel updates in ROS 6.)
Last edited by mducharme on Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
Cablenut9
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:30 am

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 10:32 pm

If the older routing protocols and engine were not designed around route caching, we probably would be on a much more modern kernel already.
Why did they do this?
Serial question asker
 
mducharme
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Thu May 13, 2021 11:34 pm

Why did they do this?
Route caching was originally supposed to be this great feature that would speed up routing table lookups drastically and make Linux a much more efficient router - that is why it was added into Linux in the first place. This relates to other similar technologies like Cisco's CEF (Cisco Express Forwarding), and so it probably seemed like a great idea at the time, since route caching would be like MikroTik's answer to Cisco CEF. However, studies done years afterwards showed that route caching did not actually measurably improve the efficiency of Linux as a router in real world scenarios, and created potential pitfalls if the route cache had incorrect/stale data and created an attack vector.
 
mafiosa
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Sat May 15, 2021 1:22 pm

They should take one routing protocol at a time. Ospfv3 works in a particular release and gets broken in the next. Multiple revision in route filters got it not working since last two betas.
 
User avatar
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Location: IL, USA
Contact:

Re: v7 launch date

Sun May 16, 2021 6:31 am

TL;DR: it is stable for simpler applications but not for mission-critical applications, it will take a while to get a stable-stable

IMHO to see what v7 is you need to look at the history
Looking at what they're doing v7 is a huge leap forward internally but only some small bits are visible outside. I don't know how old exactly ROS is (wiki says 1996?) but I distinctly remember ROS being shown to me when we were still hanging ethernet cables between apartment buildings attached to a metal wire using zip ties. That was the best ISP in the area with a blazing-fast 64kb/s connection. The point is ROS came a long way and I'm 100% sure, based on my experience in software development, it is chock-full of legacy code and many hacks.

The v7 line is most likely full of shims and adapters between old and new code. It works. As any legacy project however you cannot make it production-stable quickly. It may appear stable but as we all see in this forum it is not. While the features in v7 are nice and we asked for them for a long time, I wouldn't call v7 development slow. While the public changelogs for v7 aren't very long, I'm sure under the hood there're plenty of things like "fixed communication between [internalModuleA] and [internalModuleB]" which we aren't interested in. In one of the projects I worked for where we were faced with a similar problem (migrating a huge, multi-million lines, project into the 21-st century) changelogs with 1-2 lines with sometimes enigmatic "fixed processing of large unicode files" were internally attached to a collection of tickets with 50k+ LOC changed.

That being said some of the things which were added to v7 makes me think that ROS v7 is more a rebirth than a simple patch-around for couple of reasons:
1. Kernel updates
Recently they were able to bring the kernel to the most recent one quickly again (just in between betas). This means they've got a robust process to do so. This is huge. ROS got into the current state partially because of the outdated kernel version it was running.

2. 3rd tools integration
Everybody who's in the MT world long enough knows the famous amazing OpenVPN implementation. OVPN is a very messy protocol with a very... convoluted... codebase (being polite). For years MT struggled (for whatever reason) to add e.g. OVPN-UDP. This was because they decided to roll their own OVPN daemon... they did the same with a lot of things (e.g. 802.11 stack).
With WireGuard they just... added it. They just integrated the mainstream library into the ROS.

3. Internal mindset shift?
Sort-of related to 2. - it seems to me like MT internally changed how they do things. They are willing to integrate things into the ecosystem instead of rewriting it. You can see it with WireGuard, Cake, FQ_Codel, and most notably wifiwave2. The last one is especially huge: they're including binaries of drivers and wrapping them in their own layer. For now it's immature but if corporate culture taught me anything this is a huge shift internally in the development policies and practices.


Thank you for comming to my TED talk ;)
 
alfredo
newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:06 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Mon May 17, 2021 9:01 am

The discussion in this thread is very interesting and informative. But I just want to add my “+1” to those interested in feature freeze and bug squashing as soon as practical.

CCRs are currently struggling with a full BGP table. Routes take forever to reach the forwarding plane. The very old and fondly remembered Cisco 7200s are much faster updating their tables and their design is 20 years old.

Also, a lot of stuff is configured differently on v7 so there will be a lot of time needed to get familiar and test everything, to add to the release date. So unless Mikrotik wants to drop out of BGP speakers, we need a v7 BGP speaker getting stable ASAP.
 
User avatar
robmaltsystems
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: v7 launch date

Mon May 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Thanks for that kiler129 - sounds all very logical to me.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests