Community discussions

MikroTik App
 
User avatar
rtacheny
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Braham, MN USA
Contact:

802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:48 am

I'm aware that there are products now available using Wave 2 chipsets; hAP AC2, cAP AC, RB4011. However, does anyone know if the MU-MIMO functions or beamforming are currently supported and functioning in routerOS? And what I'm even more interested in is in the devices that are only 2x2 MIMO, is there any gain in transmissions with MU-MIMO when transmitting to other 2x2 devices, or is it virtually identical to performance on non MU-MIMO devices?
 
mistry7
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:47 am

I'm aware that there are products now available using Wave 2 chipsets; hAP AC2, cAP AC, RB4011. However, does anyone know if the MU-MIMO functions or beamforming are currently supported and functioning in routerOS? And what I'm even more interested in is in the devices that are only 2x2 MIMO, is there any gain in transmissions with MU-MIMO when transmitting to other 2x2 devices, or is it virtually identical to performance on non MU-MIMO devices?
Mikrotiks Wireless Driver that is done by there own, is missing all Wave2 features and in the past it lost mich of function, what was available for 802.11n

- they don’t benefit with new Chipsets
- speed with Wave 2 Chipsets is worse than older ac Hardware
- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices

Your Options
1. wait for Christmas
2. Buy something else
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:53 am

- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices
Not true, new betas fix the issue with Apple and the issue is with Apple new driver, not RouterOS driver.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
User avatar
honzam
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2321
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:50 pm

- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices
Not true, new betas fix the issue with Apple and the issue is with Apple new driver, not RouterOS driver.
Ok, the apple is solved. And the rest?
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm

You are right, that MikroTik made wireless driver doesn't have Wave2 support, so new chipset benefits are not there. We are working on a new driver.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
huntermic
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:59 pm

You are right, that MikroTik made wireless driver doesn't have Wave2 support, so new chipset benefits are not there. We are working on a new driver.
Will the new driver appear in version 6.X or do we need to wait for the legendary version 7?
 
User avatar
honzam
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2321
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:02 pm

You are right, that MikroTik made wireless driver doesn't have Wave2 support, so new chipset benefits are not there. We are working on a new driver.
Will the new driver appear in version 6.X or do we need to wait for the legendary version 7?
I have the same question
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
jrpaz
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:54 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:24 pm

V7 will fix all issues Release date TBD

My RB4011 is performing well but nothing like the Wave2 stuff from other manufacturers.

Sad
 
User avatar
rtacheny
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Braham, MN USA
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:06 pm

You are right, that MikroTik made wireless driver doesn't have Wave2 support, so new chipset benefits are not there. We are working on a new driver.
Normis,

Do you have any kind of estimate on when we could expect the new driver with support for Wave 2? We are looking at doing a large project, and choice of hardware is going to weigh heavily on whether these features are (or will be soon) present.

To the other folks, whether you feel it's deserved or not, snide comments about v7 are not going to get you results. Please be respectful.
 
mistry7
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:13 pm

- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices
Not true, new betas fix the issue with Apple and the issue is with Apple new driver, not RouterOS driver.
I have done picture with HP Laptop and 4011 still 54MBit, IPhone connects with full speed, not solved in actual Beta!
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 pm

Do you have any kind of estimate on when we could expect the new driver with support for Wave 2? We are looking at doing a large project, and choice of hardware is going to weigh heavily on whether these features are (or will be soon) present.
Well, I live in a world of public tender. Public institutions are advised by some "vicarious agent" who are heavily influenced about what they sell. The consultants usually get 10% of the money the winner of the tender charges for its solution. So guess what those so "neutral consultants" write in their tender documents?

Of course: They don´t say vendor C, A, E, or H. But they directly get the prefilled tender documents right from the sales agents of the vendors. They copy whole parts, sometimes from vendor C for tender 1. For the tender afterwards they take the text from A, then perhaps from A, or sometimes from H.

Those people have never heard about M. If you look at the tender documents you´ll find the usual basic requirements, i.e. they want "wave 2", they want "beamforming"; even if they don´t know what this actual does. So, what I like to see is that MikroTik recruit some programmers to get those features up and running as this will simply maximize your revenue.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:07 am

- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices
Not true, new betas fix the issue with Apple and the issue is with Apple new driver, not RouterOS driver.
I have done picture with HP Laptop and 4011 still 54MBit, IPhone connects with full speed, not solved in actual Beta!
have you checked the changelog?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mistry7
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:11 am

- they incompatible to some Intel and Apple devices
Not true, new betas fix the issue with Apple and the issue is with Apple new driver, not RouterOS driver.
I have done picture with HP Laptop and 4011 still 54MBit, IPhone connects with full speed, not solved in actual Beta!
have you checked the changelog?
If there is something done for iPhone (i have an older one) it is not on Changelog:

*) wireless - added new "installation" parameter to specify router's location;
*) wireless - improved signal strength at low TX power on LHG 5 ac, LHG 5 ac XL and LDF 5 ac ("/system routerboard upgrade" required);
*) wireless - improved system stability for all ARM devices with wireless;
*) wireless - removed G/N support for 2484MHz in "japan" regulatory domain;
*) wireless - report last seen IP address in RADIUS accounting messages;
*) wireless - show indoor/outdoor frequency limitations under "/interface wireless info country-info " command;

But bigger Problem is Intel Hardware. A new Wave 2 Router and it is impossible to deliver more then 20Mbit real TCP to an new Laptop..... @5Ghz,
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:48 am

Exactly my point. The beta with iPhone fixes is not public yet. Please wait a little bit. it's being released today
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
huntermic
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:07 pm

Even planning for the same day seems impossible for mikrotik.......
Exactly my point. The beta with iPhone fixes is not public yet. Please wait a little bit. it's being released today
 
User avatar
sebastia
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1797
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Antwerp, BE

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:24 pm

Don't be so harsh. Issues come up in development, in life, ...
 
User avatar
pcunite
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 5:13 am
Location: USA

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:26 pm

The beta with iPhone fixes is not public yet. Please wait a little bit. it's being released today.

Thank you Normis. If you guys could a write up on what the juicy details were, that would be great.
 
User avatar
rtacheny
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Braham, MN USA
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Exactly my point. The beta with iPhone fixes is not public yet. Please wait a little bit. it's being released today
Normis,

Seems this thread is getting away from the original topic...

That being said, did you have any details on when we could expect a new wireless driver in rOS?
 
iwikus
newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:55 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:03 pm

Anything new? I was at MUM, but I did not noticed anything about this...
 
hennotaht
just joined
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:40 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:46 pm

What is the current status of wave 2 features in Mikrotik wireless drivers?
 
r00t
Member
Member
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:14 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:09 pm

Nothing changed
 
ronniee
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:32 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:19 am

they are working now on the new Audience (RBD25G-5HPacQD2HPnD) will be ready in couple weeks,
but not sure if Wave2 will be supported, so its only for home usage, far from competitors
and an easy capsman setup tool it's also missing, but will come for sure in x years
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:28 am

What is the current status of wave 2 features in Mikrotik wireless drivers?
Most of the features are implemented, but MU-MIMO is WIP

Nothing changed
Any validity of the statement?
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:07 am

Most of the features are implemented, but MU-MIMO is WIP
Thank you for the update. What features have been implemented for now? May I ask when you plan to release those new drivers within new beta RouterOS versions? Will we be able to test those drivers with a new (optional) wireless driver package as in the past?
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:05 pm

which featues are missing now? we already released the driver update in last betas.
160MHz works, like Reinis said, only MU-MIMO is not implemented as the only remaining Wave2 feature.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
User avatar
nz_monkey
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1887
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:53 pm
Location: Over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:49 pm

which features are missing now?
MU-MIMO 8)
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet NSE7 | Extreme Networks ENA
 
rpress
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 5:13 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:49 pm

160MHz does not work in the US, presumably because Mikrotik did not complete the necessary testing required.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FT ... P&id=27155
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:12 pm

which featues are missing now? we already released the driver update in last betas.
Great, so that´s the driver update, I assume?

=>
Version 6.46beta16 has been released.
*) wireless - fixed 802.11n rate selection when managed by CAPsMAN;
*) wireless - improved 802.11ac stability for all ARM devices with wireless;
*) wireless - improved U-APSD (WMM Power Save) support for 802.11e;
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24713
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:16 pm

Yes, "stability" means a lot of improvements under the hood, including 160MHz in supported regions.
Yes, like I said, MU-MIMO is the only missing thing right now. Wave2, to my knowledge, doesn't have any other things RouterOS doesn't support already.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mfr476
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:24 pm

When can we use mu-mimo?
 
kaola
just joined
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:04 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:16 am

Does wAP ac support VHT160?
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:09 am

160MHz does not work in the US, presumably because Mikrotik did not complete the necessary testing required.
Sorry, but we are still in the process of certifying for US (U-NII-2), that's why you cannot choose any frequencies with the 160MHz configuration when country is set to united-states-3.

Does wAP ac support VHT160?
No
 
User avatar
DmitryAVET
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:27 am
Location: Ukraine, Mukachevo
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:39 pm

When can we use mu-mimo?
In RouterOS? Never .... or in year 2030....
Mikrotik don't listening us, dont listening clients...

Same can say about Beamforming, Mesh, new hotspot, 802.11k/v/r

CAPsMAN and HotSpot is outdatet, so we forced change Mikrotik and choose EdgeCore solutions for WiFi. More stable, more features.

Mikrotik... what happend with you?
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:10 am

Yes, like I said, MU-MIMO is the only missing thing right now. Wave2, to my knowledge, doesn't have any other things RouterOS doesn't support already.
Will MU-MIMO be supported in V7 only or in V6, aswell?
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:16 pm

Most of the features are implemented, but MU-MIMO is WIP
Hello Reinis, what is the current status of your MU-MIMO implementation?
 
smileymattj
newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:53 am

normis or Reinis,

Do you have a list of AC devices that will receive the MU-MIMO functionality when the driver is updated to support it? Will all MikroTik AC devices support it? Or certain ones?

I'm ok with it not currently supporting it, but will in the future. Back when 802.11g came out, if you had a lot of B devices connecting to it, it would degrade the performance of the entire network. I'd assume this will be a continually trend with new WiFi features. The point is client devices are the weak link. And client devices supporting the enhanced features don't get mass adoption till later on in the specifications lifespan. Unless you can control what devices are connecting to the APs, I feel it's not going to show it's full usefulness till MU-MIMO becomes a standard feature of even the cheapest of client devices.

I prefer using MikroTik APs over other brands. I'd choose a MikroTik over another brand that currently supports MU-MIMO, if I knew MU-MIMO would eventually come to the MikroTik device.
 
mfr476
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:03 am

And spectral scan? Is a dream?
 
marwin
just joined
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:37 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:41 pm

Mikrotik - What is the current status of your MU-MIMO implementation?
Also, when will it be "certified" as Wave 2? All recent tenders are requiring Wave 2 products, and this is holding us back from pitching Mikrotik.
 
mfr476
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:42 pm

it is being developed at the same time as the spectral scan
 
mistry7
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:28 pm

it is being developed at the same time as the spectral scan
Maybe
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:10 pm

06/2020: Still no MU-MIMO...
 
User avatar
bpwl
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:16 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:59 pm

Yes, "stability" means a lot of improvements under the hood, including 160MHz in supported regions.
Yes, like I said, MU-MIMO is the only missing thing right now. Wave2, to my knowledge, doesn't have any other things RouterOS doesn't support already.
Hi Normis, can we expect single user MIMO beamforming , before the step up to the much more complex MU-MIMO?
See : https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... /ch04.html
Beamforming has its own benefits, even without the MU-MIMO.

DTIM setting, and fast roaming are just options?
 
shiyiqiang08
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:35 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:24 am

I think the most important thing is stability. As for others, they are still acceptable. The latest version is not stable. In my impression, the previous version is very stable.
 
User avatar
bpwl
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:16 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:57 am

I think the most important thing is stability. As for others, they are still acceptable. The latest version is not stable. In my impression, the previous version is very stable.
Fully agree. Stability is a must. The rest is nice to have. For my experience the 6.45.6 is the most stable version. (They lost some stability in the transition to the 6.45.8 LT version)
Working hard to tune the Mikrotik wifi, and not accepting very poor results some get, without tweaking the parameters we already have.
But the battle to get the same performance as other brands is not easy. One can fix it for a specific static situation, but not make it a self-adjusting system.

And it is not the big jump to Wave2 , even with the optional MU-MIMO that we need. Smaller steps could help us.

After hearing Normis "the only thing missing for Wave-2 is MU-MIMO", and Strods with his view on the Winbox user interface.
And after reading all this stuff about 802.11ac, there are quite some things missing in the Mikrotik (https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... index.html)

- single user beamforming (3 dB gain in SNR)
- air time fairness (without fairness a 300 Mbps and a 100 Mbps competing for airtime will have an effective interface rate of 75 Mbps. With air time fairness its 150 Mbps and 50 Mbps. This is only a mild example, 400 Mbps + 6 Mbps makes it a dramatic 6 Mbps for each without air time fairness)
- proper WMM implementation. It doesn't work on DSCP without specific mangle rules.
- WMM parameter setting (like in any other brand cheap AP)
- "adaptive aggregation", now it is fixed for all clients and fixed over time. It should vary per client, also with any interference fluctuation.
- A-PMDU parameters cannot be set. (Other brands let you set the buffer size and the max number of A-MSDU packed together)
- aggressive MCS-rate adjustment
- roaming support. (At least let us reduce the TXpower of the 2.4 GHz band with the GUI, to favor the 5 GHz band connection)

It's hard to compete with other brands in speed and stability with Mikrotiks simplified implementation.
(But by doing it you learn a lot about 802.11 :-) )
 
User avatar
mozerd
Member
Member
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:39 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:07 pm

After hearing Normis "the only thing missing for Wave-2 is MU-MIMO", and Strods with his view on the Winbox user interface.
And after reading all this stuff about 802.11ac, there are quite some things missing in the Mikrotik (https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... index.html)

- single user beamforming (3 dB gain in SNR)
- air time fairness (without fairness a 300 Mbps and a 100 Mbps competing for airtime will have an effective interface rate of 75 Mbps. With air time fairness its 150 Mbps and 50 Mbps. This is only a mild example, 400 Mbps + 6 Mbps makes it a dramatic 6 Mbps for each without air time fairness)
- proper WMM implementation. It doesn't work on DSCP without specific mangle rules.
- WMM parameter setting (like in any other brand cheap AP)
- "adaptive aggregation", now it is fixed for all clients and fixed over time. It should vary per client, also with any interference fluctuation.
- A-PMDU parameters cannot be set. (Other brands let you set the buffer size and the max number of A-MSDU packed together)
- aggressive MCS-rate adjustment
- roaming support. (At least let us reduce the TXpower of the 2.4 GHz band with the GUI, to favor the 5 GHz band connection)

It's hard to compete with other brands in speed and stability with Mikrotiks simplified implementation.
(But by doing it you learn a lot about 802.11 :-) )
@bpwl - the above is 100% correct ..... nice post :)
 
User avatar
BartoszP
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1848
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:13 pm
Location: Poland

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:18 pm

@mozerd ... what is the need to quote "previous post" just write "nice post"?
Do you know the funcionality of "post reply" button?
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
User avatar
mozerd
Member
Member
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:39 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:23 pm

@mozerd ... what is the need to quote "previous post" just write "nice post"?
Do you know the funcionality of "post reply" button?
@BartoszP --Because what I quoted from @bpwl post is what I supported and that is what I wanted to emphasize.

BartoszP, I apologize to you if I hurt your feelings.
 
anuser
Member
Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:21 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145047&p=742089&hil ... mo#p741741
What is the current status of wave 2 features in Mikrotik wireless drivers?
Most of the features are implemented, but MU-MIMO is WIP
[...]
1 year later... So?
 
User avatar
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5107
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:24 pm

@mozerd ... what is the need to quote "previous post" just write "nice post"?
Do you know the funcionality of "post reply" button?
Hey it works!!!
I for one appreciated hearing Mozerds, confirmation and support for one our cherished members bpwl. Whether he used the quote function or not is completely moot (irrelevant like your post)!

This is where I reiterate (for smart, kewl, sexy (not sure which way he/she leans) Normis) that MT should hire bpwl to work with the MT coders in modifying and improving the MT wifi and associated written documentation. For all our sanity!!
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
MTUNA Certified, by the Ascerbic Llama!
 
gotsprings
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:31 pm

I think the most important thing is stability. As for others, they are still acceptable. The latest version is not stable. In my impression, the previous version is very stable.
Fully agree. Stability is a must. The rest is nice to have. For my experience the 6.45.6 is the most stable version. (They lost some stability in the transition to the 6.45.8 LT version)
Working hard to tune the Mikrotik wifi, and not accepting very poor results some get, without tweaking the parameters we already have.
But the battle to get the same performance as other brands is not easy. One can fix it for a specific static situation, but not make it a self-adjusting system.

And it is not the big jump to Wave2 , even with the optional MU-MIMO that we need. Smaller steps could help us.

After hearing Normis "the only thing missing for Wave-2 is MU-MIMO", and Strods with his view on the Winbox user interface.
And after reading all this stuff about 802.11ac, there are quite some things missing in the Mikrotik (https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/80 ... index.html)

- single user beamforming (3 dB gain in SNR)
- air time fairness (without fairness a 300 Mbps and a 100 Mbps competing for airtime will have an effective interface rate of 75 Mbps. With air time fairness its 150 Mbps and 50 Mbps. This is only a mild example, 400 Mbps + 6 Mbps makes it a dramatic 6 Mbps for each without air time fairness)
- proper WMM implementation. It doesn't work on DSCP without specific mangle rules.
- WMM parameter setting (like in any other brand cheap AP)
- "adaptive aggregation", now it is fixed for all clients and fixed over time. It should vary per client, also with any interference fluctuation.
- A-PMDU parameters cannot be set. (Other brands let you set the buffer size and the max number of A-MSDU packed together)
- aggressive MCS-rate adjustment
- roaming support. (At least let us reduce the TXpower of the 2.4 GHz band with the GUI, to favor the 5 GHz band connection)

It's hard to compete with other brands in speed and stability with Mikrotiks simplified implementation.
(But by doing it you learn a lot about 802.11 :-) )
So those other threads were you and I go back and forth about how Mikrotik can't touch my other vendor in wireless...
How I was pissed I wasted so much time building all this cool stuff in caps-man to more or less abandon it later...
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Mark Twain
 
xrayd
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:25 pm

I'm disappointed!!!
 
r00t
Member
Member
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:14 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:38 pm

Remember the times when Mikrotik was innovating and using recent hardware and their best software expertise to introduce killer features like NSTREME or NSTREME dual? There was no competition at that time, being able to push 100MBit/s over wifi was just awesome. But then they probably started cutting corners and ended up with worse hardware than competition, without proper features like spectral scan and hardware TDMA timing, requiring kludges like NV2 to get somewhat working TDMA. 802.11ac was first generation of Mikrotik hardware that just sucked. Limited power control, NV2 or NSTREME didn't work properly, bandwidth issues, no spectral scan... some issues were fixed, but many things are still problematic to this day or completely missing. More wrong hardware decisions happened that caused flopping ports on RB3011 that are still an issue to this day, never to be fixed but hey, it's STILL selling, with all these flaws. Then trainwreck called RB4011 appeared, with flaky wifi that couldn't even do what spec sheet said, with endless stability issues, reboots, freezing and all that nasty stuff. Reality is that Mikrotik is now 3 generations behind in WIFI hardware and WIFI chipsets on current Routerboards can't be used to their full potential thanks to custom driver issues and missing features. Until recently, there was still one good reason left to buy Mikrotik: the price. Being so much cheaper, you could tolerate some issues. But recently it seems prices are going up for new products as well, despite the increasing amount of issues. $200-$300 home routers? wtf? And what you get is 16MBs of flash, how long until ROS will simply not fit. Stupid cutting of corners everywhere, especially on $200+ devices. Smells like planned obsolescence to me...

Thankfully there are still some products that show some hope like 60GHz, CRS series and ROS performance running natively on x86 hardware. But right now, future of Mikrotik WIFI doesn't look good, unless some change in direction happens. As soon as possible. Because year ago was already too late.
 
xrayd
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:51 pm

+1!
 
Kampfwurst
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:53 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:39 pm

++1
 
NTheZone
just joined
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:47 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:16 pm

+++1
 
mkennedy67
just joined
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:36 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:23 pm

Guess I'll pile on too. We need better WiFi.
 
User avatar
bpwl
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:16 am

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:11 pm

802.11ac support, even wave 1 ?
Still wonder if this is implemented as "n+" or as "ac".
VHT MCS parameters are somewhat hidden (need to set 'Data rates' on "configured", for VHT parameters to appear under 'HT')
There are A-MSDU limits, but that's for 802.11n. Can we do anything on this in 802.11ac ??? Is AMSDU implemented as ac (11454bytes), or as n (7935bytes) ?
A-MSDU and A-MPDU aggregation is important for lower overhead and higher throughput, certainly at high (866Mbps) interface data rates.
Max A-MPDU size in 802.11ac is 1MByte, versus 65535bytes in 802.11n.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=165479#p813552

EDIT: well it even announces in the beacons that for 802.11n and ac MKT only uses 3839bytes as A-MSDU. Also the A-MPDU is lower than the IEEE standard
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=165698#p817088
Last edited by bpwl on Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
gotsprings
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: 802.11ac Wave2 Support?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:33 pm

Had to loan out my Ruckus R610.

Reconfigured an Audience to be the WAP (cap) for my house.
Its 3 radios
2.4 2x2
5.0 2x2
5.8 4x4

All the radios are serving clients... and between me working and the kid in Zoom class... not dropping yet.
I am on the 4x4 (5.8) radio and he happens to be in the 2x2 (5.0) radio.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Mark Twain

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], biomesh, eworm and 109 guests