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Sob
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:49 pm

<OT>
They have consumer hardware, don't you think it makes sense to have also consumer features? Those two things fit nicely together. Other devices on the market having those features is not argument against them in RouterOS, because I'm sure that MikroTik would much rather sell theirs.

What's the big deal anyway? If you don't enable them, they won't be eating your resources, except for few kilobytes of disk space. And when they add something bigger for consumer, I assume they will put it into separate package. So far it just wasn't worth it. But perhaps they should do it anyway, just to make strictly business users happy.

Btw, I never thought about it much, but now you inspired me and I think that I'd like coffee making router (some extra hardware required of course). I just can't decide if it would be more consumer of business feature. From traditional point of view it must be consumer one, because routers do not make coffee, right? On the other hand, controlling coffee maker from smartphone, that's what home user would probably do, is kind of boring. But having it in server room, to serve the right coffee to admins, according to network situation (small and weak for boring days, big and strong one when main server goes up in flames, etc..), that's where its beauty would really show! :)
</OT>
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:22 pm

And there could be a script for collecting server metrics (SNMP of course) to automatically decide regarding if small/big respective weak/strong is needed. Cappuccino as an option for jobs well done. Of course with proper images on the LCD.
Anyway, a remote usb over tcp protocol would be nice.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:41 pm

Ok. I admit that there are some users (and maybe there are a huge army of them) that would like to have such functions in routers. I also admit that it could bring some new revenues to Mikrotik. But on the other hand it will also bring new users that will complain on that router does not work, because they just misconfigured it.First of all, the ROS itself is not a consumer feature. We all know that ROS is not trivial plug-n-play system with few ticks here and there so it does not work out of the box.

As an effect we all will have just more work here on the forum or will stop to participate as the forum will be flooded by repeatitive questions. Do not you think this has already started? Do you like it?

Anyway, even I can see that something could be good for Mikrotik company, I do not think it will be good for me. For me will be good if ROS will be reliable in all possible ways. Therefore I want that Mikrotik will spend all the time on making the ROS rock stable and error-free as much as possible. I would like to see no yeals on this forum that "new version bricked my device" everytime new minor update is released. After that I would like to see slow adding of new functions that have something with routing the traffic and networking generally. And tuning them in the state they really work.

Yes, one day it can happen that there will be nothing to add as all network functionalities will be implemented, fast and working in the same way even the ROS is updated. Then Mikrotik can ask what more to implement. And I will add my vote for printing, scanning or drawing pictures on displays or so. It is like with IPcloud. I say it is useless for me, because it still works unreliably, many users complain it registers wrong addresses, recently the servers were down or in some problems so it did not work at all. Did we need it? I say not. There are many DDNS services on the market, many of them for free, everyone can choose what he likes, make or copy simple script or register in other way and it works. At least for me. And it works how I want to. With the domain name I want to. Something that IPCloud did not provide.

Print server would be similar wrong way. Another source of bugs. I do not want it. There are cheap home printers with network connectivity - everyone can use it. If you have very old printer, you can buy working print server box for frew dollars. Or switch on printer sharing on the computer the printer is connected to.

So there is no time for it now.

Each of us want something different. Each of us can decide to vote for printing or against. So I am against with all respect to those that vote for.

Remember, Mikrotik will do what they think what is better for their profit. And we all then decide to buy Mikrotik devices and software or not to buy. Your bucks vote. Only your bucks. But unfortunatelly, when you vote by your money, it is already late.

So Mikrotik, do what we want! And each of us want different things - so do all of them. And give them to us for free! Yesterday was late! - No, this is not how it can work. People from Mikrotik are not stupid, I believe they decide in the way that time will proove they decided well. Unfortunatelly I do not know if it is the same way I vote for, or the other way I vote against, or some other third way that I even did not know about....

So that is it. At the end we can just discuss here and be more or less unhappy.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:11 am

Well, if the available options are basic network stuff and stability, or nice extra little features, but not both, then the choice is obvious. But I can't really say that I understand why it would have to be just one or another.
RouterOS is not one man show (I hope ;) ... ok just kidding, there's no way one man could have done everything there is), so while the gurus are working on advanced stuff, someone else might work on adding non-critical optional features. It does require some extra resources, sure, but I refuse to believe that company, which produces tons of hardware (literally) couldn't afford to get an extra programmer or two. But it's pointless to speculate about it, only they know the truth and their goals.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:50 am

worst freaking idea ever.


---------------------1
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:58 am

You always have limited resources and time. Therefore you have to choose what should be done at the cost that something will not be done.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:25 pm

+1 printserver with support airprint
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:50 pm

Bad idea. -1 for sure.

Just use printer sharing from a desktop or hook the USB cable up to your laptop (you're going to be near the printer to pick up the printed pages that come out anyway). ROS and RB's have a hard enough time doing routing... Why complicate and/or drag down your router with print duties?
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:24 am

Not discarding print server support, but USB over ethernet would be a very welcome feature.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Don't know for what this jokes about stupid features, but print support is reasonable idea, don't know why router os wil be bad with this. "Stop adding customer features", what? For whom this routers?

+1 for printer support
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:48 pm

Bad idea. -1 for sure.

Just use printer sharing from a desktop or hook the USB cable up to your laptop (you're going to be near the printer to pick up the printed pages that come out anyway). ROS and RB's have a hard enough time doing routing... Why complicate and/or drag down your router with print duties?
What about 10 employees in the office? I know, now many printers with networking (I had at home printer with wifi), but many(!) offices buy cheap mfp, just look at market.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Print server would be similar wrong way. Another source of bugs. I do not want it.
Bugs? Do you know about modular development, if will be bugs in print support it will affect only printing part not whole OS, I don't think RouterOs writed in one big file like big monstrous function. If not print server why not usb over ethernet? And if we talk about consumer feature, mikrotik should remove usb port, this is for stupid consumers. Don't know why so many negative about print feature, if you don't like ok, it's make router os more flexible for different sort of users, not only super network administrators.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:35 pm

Seems you don't have enough experience with mikrotik. They always build something new at costs of adding new bugs somewhere else. I respect you want it. But I see it useless.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:52 pm

+1 for print server support
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:46 pm

-1 for print server....follow KISS rule....
Printers have their own print servers, WiFi & LAN connectivity, Apple/Windows/Linux protocols support ... there is no need for next print server
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:36 pm

+1 for print server support
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:37 pm

+1 for print server support
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:36 am

i dont think the people who buy mikrotik use printers that only connect via usb. It is a nice feature to have but there are other better usb features to have. Being able to link a device for direct access would be better and also allow sharing usb printers.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:05 am

Once again: -1 for print server
USB GDI printers are designed to be personal, local dumb copiers with printing processing moved to PC.....what PC ? SMB based ? AirPrint one ? LPR based ? There is no need to make ROS aware of all USB GDI madness.
Go to the nearest shop and buy real network printer.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:24 pm

+1 for print server support

70 posts from users but NO post from mikrotik support. Very bad
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:58 pm

+ 1 for Print Server Support...
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:54 pm

+1 for usb printing or usb over IP
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:00 pm

- and let's not forget about adding Philips Hue integration so I can flash my bulbs every time I get a corrupt packet

- and please have it run XBMC so I can watch pirated m*vies via the serial port

- and since that's not enough, I want RouterOS to link up to my Apple Watch and send an e-mail to my mum each time I get home.

- and why-oh-why have you not integrated any garage door controllers into Web Proxy yet?


.. I could go on, but I won't.
If Mikrotik were made in Switzerland, all of these functions would be available plus a leather punch, saw, scissors, and an espresso maker. (Pack the coffee into port 7 and pour water into port 6. Coffee comes out of port 8 when you ping the router)
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:07 pm

If Mikrotik were made in Switzerland....
- it would cost 200x more
- it would be coded partly in C++, partly in .Net and partly in PHP, but uses Java to connect all the components
- It would have two fixed firewall rules:
chain=input protocol=$,€,£ action=accept
chain=input action=reject
- No strings attached -

<< Please give good Karma if this post helped you. Press the + button above the Location entry
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:10 pm

chain=input protocol=$,€,£ action=accept
:lol: Best firewall rule ever!

I have to say put me in the -1 group.

If this is implemented, we will soon see a post complaining that the printer is unable to keep up with their packet traffic - after 5 days of questions from the community, it will come out that the user is trying to print every packet that goes through the router because he's one of THOSE paranoid types.... We will all slam our foreheads on the table until we go into comas.

Then a few weeks later, this problem will become a FAQ after the 100th user posts the exact same problem w/o searching first.

Second FAQ is going to be "my grandfather's printer not supported - Capital Q in printout is replaced constantly with smiley-face character. plz help"
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:29 pm

Go to the nearest shop and buy real network printer.
+100000
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:19 pm

Thank you so much JackANSI for de-rating more than 10 users for not agreeing with you on this topic. You are a true gentlemen.
Let me return the favor, and I hope the others will, too.

LE: Love you, too 8)
Last edited by docmarius on Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:56 am

Is there someone here to shut this forum?
Or I don't know, at least it's funny to see the Karmas :D :D +1 and -1 :lol: up and down

My Idea is -1 to print server, because of CPU load, bugs and whatever badness it has. sharing printer on Desktops is so easier. I have 4 printer shared via my Server, I know if my server goes down so printers goes down, so because of this I planned backup system for sharing printers.
is it easier?
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:42 pm

Sorry, but you're completely missing the point, maybe because you clearly aren't the average home user. :) Skipping the fact that average home users don't have four printers, they don't have any 24/7 running servers. For most of them, the only 24/7 running network device in their house is router. Sharing printer using regular user PC sucks, that doesn't need explaining. Print server is the right way to go, the only question is which one it should be. Best case is one integrated in printer, but if all printers had them, this thread wouldn't exist. So then it's either separate one (relatively expensive and perceived as another "unnecessary" device) or router (if it can do it).

Don't take me wrong, I'm not going to fight here for print server in RouterOS to my last breath. In fact, I currently don't need it (I had use for it in the past, perhaps I might again in future, just not now). It's just a little surprising that cheap <$30 routers can do it and even nice with almost high-end feel (from regular user's perspective) $120 RB2011 can't.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:51 pm

But these cheap $30 routers do: simple nat, simple QoS, simple firewall and...print server. Nothing more. That is why they cost much less than MikroTik.
Have you ever seen or just heard about print server built in CISCO OS and routers ? Even these SOHO's cheap ones ? I'm not asking for Linksys branded as Cisco.

P.S.
Average (!!!) home user rarely uses MikroTik.
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:21 pm

Unlike Cisco, MikroTik does target home users. If there was any doubt before, now with new hAP line there's "home" even in the name.

I know the cheapest one does not have usb, so it's out for print server. On the other hand, looking at its price, it surely looks like an attempt to attract an average home user. Not that the average user will be too happy administering it, since the right amount of work for them is to plug right cables in right sockets, according to instructions. It's more like that the user will pay for it, while someone else takes care of the rest, but that's different story.
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Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:08 pm

How pushing the karma / reputation can be used to punish anyone's opinion? Let everyone freely express their opinions without any threats. Mikrotik engineers and sales representatives will decide on their own what will be beneficial for them...
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:31 pm

Unlike Cisco, MikroTik does target home users.
I think it is not true.
Cisco targets home users with Linksys products. They have no full featured CISCO OS installed.
If we compare CISCO OS to ROS then there is no place for print server.
Last edited by BartoszP on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:00 pm

Soon, this thread is going to look like one of the battle scenes from Braveheart.....
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Print server is the right way to go, the only question is which one it should be.
Now we are talking :D
Have you ever seen or just heard about print server built in CISCO OS and routers ? Even these SOHO's cheap ones ? I'm not asking for Linksys branded as Cisco.
:(
Cisco targets home users but with Linksys products. They have no full featured CISCO OS installed.
If we compare CISCO OS to ROS then there is no place for print server.
Even I didn't see any OS on my LinkSys modems. at least all of MT's product have fully ROS.
Soon, this thread is going to look like one of the battle scenes from Braveheart.....
+1 to movie


But what in the end?
I wanted to have such thing. but when looking at CPU load and etc ...
If MT has targeted home users, so at least they should think of having modem compatibility in their product. So then If I am Home user I could use such product which can connect my through Internet without having additional bridged modem.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:19 pm

But what in the end?
I wanted to have such thing. but when looking at CPU load and etc ...
If MT has targeted home users, so at least they should think of having modem compatibility in their product. So then If I am Home user I could use such product which can connect my through Internet without having additional bridged modem.
I would rather that they implement VDSL, DOCSIS, and GPON interfaces for routerboards.
While Ethernet is everywhere, it's not common as a last-mile delivery mechanism.
Until you can plug the actual circuit directly into the Mikrotik itself, there will always be a bridging modem in front of it.

They should implement these interfaces and improve IPv6 feature set long before making a router that doubles as a print server, and a timer to make my lamp go on and off when I'm on vacation (auto-dected by lack of IP traffic? omg feature creep!!!!)

If I have an F-16, I want more missiles and radars and engines and night vision and stuff - not cup holders, wine refrigerators, fold-out beds, and all-leather interiors.

If I want those things, I would prefer a corporate jet in stead of an F-16.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:33 pm

... If we compare CISCO OS to ROS then there is no place for print server.
Ok, so Cisco has separate home brand (well, had, they no longer own Linksys) and better/enterprise one, which does not have routers with print server (I didn't check, but I trust you on this one). And we want to compare RouterOS only to the latter why exactly? MikroTik devices are currently starting at lower prices than even any Linksys ever had, so it makes it fair candidate for comparison. Google says that at least one Linksys router does support print server functionality. Judging by the year that video is from, it's from Cisco days, before they got rid of Linksys. So yeah, even Cisco does (did) it. :)

But no matter who does or does not do it, how is *not* having something that even cheap device has, in any way benefical to users? I understand the fear of bugs, but if you don't enable it, the chances for it to break are not great. Or if it should be a battle of features and we can have either print server or UDP OpenVPN, LLDP, vmxnet3, the list goes on, then screw the print server, obviously. I just don't think that simple Jetdirect-like print server (no spooling and stuff) could be too much work.

On a side note, regarding Cisco (specifically Linksys), I'm not sure that following a company that can produce something as idiotic as router requiring internet access for administration / first time setup is necessarily such great idea. Because clearly, they too are capable of doing something stupid.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:48 pm


If I have an F-16, I want more missiles and radars and engines and night vision and stuff - not cup holders, wine refrigerators, fold-out beds, and all-leather interiors.

If I want those things, I would prefer a corporate jet in stead of an F-16.

+1
Yes, You're right. Always there are priorities we should see.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:30 pm

On a side note, regarding Cisco (specifically Linksys), I'm not sure that following a company that can produce something as idiotic as router requiring internet access for administration / first time setup is necessarily such great idea. Because clearly, they too are capable of doing something stupid.
Yes, that was one of the worst ideas ever.

I would say that comparing ROS to (Cisco) IOS (let's use technology names here) is much more appropriate comparison than comparing ROS to LinksysOS. Sure, Linksys originally did (and might still for all I know) use Linux kernel, just like ROS. The Mikrotik platform, though, is all about unlocking the full power of the Linux kernel's networking stack and the very common services that support it (dhcpd, routing, http proxy, etc) while the Linksys OS is all about making networking easier.

ROS is more like IOS because both aim to enable as much advanced functionality as possible, and to do it with as much efficiency and reliability as possible. The fact that ROS happens to be two orders of magnitude cheaper on hardware is a happy bonus.

ROS makes advanced networking accessible to everyone by lowering costs - whereas Linksys makes networking more accessible by limiting choices to the most common features, and having all defaults set to something that you could just unwrap and plug into a lot of places and it would just work. You don't have to know what OSI layer 4 is to set up a NAT pinhole in Linksys - and that's a good thing.

Yes, Mikrotik developed the Quick Set tool - and there are things about it that I like, but in general, It's not useful to me (it's broken my router a couple of times when I wasn't careful) - but in the end, RouterOS is a powerful platform that can intimidate someone who's new to networking, and allow all kinds of crazy "crimes against nature" solutions to things, created by people who haven't had the experience to learn networking best practices. (Just look at how often people post to these forums asking how to make a NAT pinhole).

IOS is the same way. So that's why the two are compared and not ROS vs. Linksys.
ROS vs Linksys is like comparing a hotrod muscle car with no features against a luxury sedan.
You don't want an air conditioner in your drag racer, and you don't want nitrous oxide injection in your stretched limo.

Thus - it's (in my not-unique opinion) better that Mikrotik spend their energy creating more networking functionality / improving what already exists, than to add print server functionality. To me, this would be like the highway department being responsible for building a gas station.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:39 pm

I'm for a print server IF it comes out AFTER something like Lua...


(And for those who might not realize: Lua is - rightfully - at pretty much the bottom of MikroTik's priorities, so...)
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:34 pm

I'm for a print server IF it comes out AFTER something like Lua...


(And for those who might not realize: Lua is - rightfully - at pretty much the bottom of MikroTik's priorities, so...)

On June 17 at 13:27:41 UTC, the new version of RouterOS with Lua support would become available on the website.

At 13:41:19 UTC that same day, the first Mikrotik would be hacked successfully via a Lua exploit vector due to improper use by an inexperienced user.

By 21:15:38 UTC the next day, a russian botnet herder would be selling access to his mikrotik army....
:lol:
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:16 pm

Print server or not, I still would like to see a remote USB support, with support on different OS.
Now if one would like to use it for printers or multifunction combos, they can.
But I would like to use it for remote terminal access for serial devices in remote locations.

Of course, if this irritates some people, than I can only say: If you don't like such things, don't use them.
And fortunately, these decisions are not up to you, but to market analysts at MT.
Meaning that you will probably see printer support at one time for the SOHO segment since MT is clearly gearing towards this segment with the new hAP series.

Now if we can push this towards a generic USB over Ethernet solution, all could benefit from it. If not, it will be just another printer sharing application for the home user.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:20 pm

Simple question: Which one do you prefer for transportation job ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Simple question: Which one do you prefer for transportation job ? :lol: :lol:
Just wondering how he gonna wash the first car :D
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:53 pm

wires-utility-pole-15748433.jpg
Symbolic view of ROS code after feature creep has its way....
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:07 pm

Simple question: Which one do you prefer for transportation job ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
It depends... On bad roads, going to a hippy party, the first option could be better.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:20 am

Best idea
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:25 pm

+1 very good idea for my office network
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:19 pm

+1 still waiting for usb printer support (install openwrt in metarouter is not good idea)
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:11 pm

-1 ... router is a router ... buy printer with printserver built-in.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:53 pm

I believe it is clear that this request is nonsense.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:25 pm

+100500
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:53 pm

This request isnt nonsensical and is possible to do yourself if you were to hack the box. Essentially all you need is cups for printing and xsane for scanning. Based on the missing network features on mikrotik i think they should implement those first before print server. Infact my suggestion is to allow the installation of 3rd party software in some form such as java for example so that mikrotik can focus on network features but the community can add features that would benefit other people too like home users.

Refer to openwrt about gaining root shell in mikrotik.

Another option if your routerboard has usb is to power a raspberry pi from it and implement cups and xsane which will give you driverless print and scan on the network. However i still preferred if the routerboard were to run all the functions as i have a CCR and UK's fastest internet doesnt register any cpu usage so i try to offload as much as i can to my CCR.

using cups and xsane is better than any solution currently present in consumer routers.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:54 pm

Can you ´post some link to the cups and xsane on router?

Otherwise it's HOME and OFFICE router wit USB which is now almost useless...
Why I should by new printer just for network sharing when I have already some good one at home? And I have home router with USB?

On OpenWRT I use now VirtualHere. It's not opensource, but there is a free version which is OK just for printer...
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:10 pm

Isn't better to use printer with network interface instead?
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:26 pm

I'm sure it is. :) But you do realize that people asking for print server feature are most likely ones who already have a printer, but it doesn't have built-in network interface, right? And if the lack of network interface is that printer's only flaw, they probably don't want to throw it out and buy a new one. And neither they want to buy dedicated print server, because they already saw that some home routers are able to handle it too. Perhaps they even had such router themselves and replaced it for whatever reason by supposedly superior MikroTik device, only to find out that it's not superior in all possible aspects.
People who quote full posts should be spanked with ethernet cable. Some exceptions for multi-topic threads may apply.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:51 am

Sure I know that. Hopefully those people will not be heard by mikrotik.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:44 pm

I could not imagine that someone is asking CISCO to implement print server in their routers. Routers , not their SOHO's Linksys.
Mikrotik is as cheap as SOHO router "for everyone" but is not such kind of device.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:06 pm

I can't even imagine that Cisco will have something like winbox and so nice terminal :)
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:53 am

People, stop this print server issue. You will never get over the hypocrisy of ISP people.

Experts on this forum know your needs better than yourself and decided you don't need printing support on your MT home router.
As you don't need sharing of a hard drive connected to your router, for that matter.
But of course you need pfsense support, advanced queues, romon, MPLS, NV2, capsman and all the other advanced stuff which of course is a must on a home device you pay for. But network printing or USB over ethernet is "no no no".

You should get a new printer with network capabilities. Your current brand new multifunctional unit is bad. If you didn't get it with
networking capabilities it's your fault. What kind of bs is a color laser printer/scanner/fax combo if it doesn't have a network interface? Throw it out, get a new one, even if it costs 20-30 times the price of that router.

You have no right to ask for what YOU need, it's all about them. Because ISP experts don't give a damn, and see only their needs:
Cheap devices they can drop at their customer premises, and if possible never need to touch them again. Printer support would give those so called ISPs headaches because people would want to use it. And that means supplemental support work for them.
If they could squeeze out 10 cents more out of you, your needs don't matter. It's only their needs.

So no, no one wants/needs printer support. Experts on a user support forum decided it is nonsense :lol:
Last edited by docmarius on Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:56 am

Very nicely written. I fully agree with it.
But it is only half of the truth.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:14 am

Really, I have no need for network printing myself, but I don't understand this war.

Most modern network printing support is done via USB over ethernet methods. It is simple, efficient, and puts almost no load on the network device itself, at least no more than a simple tunnel. There is no need for cups and other linux specific printing services. The user just sets up a virtual printing port, installs the printer drivers on his machine and everything else is transparent.
And this approach also supports scanners, faxes or other usb devices, without special demands on the router itself.
There are driver included with most modern operating systems, and deploying such a support as an independent package would not interfere with anything networking related and would not impede on high end models which just would not have that packet installed.

And the actual network pros could benefit from it, since it is not only printer oriented. It could transport a remote console as well, or field access to a file repository on portable hard drive.
There is such a protocol implemented in ROS, as remote USB port supporting console only. What is missing is the access management/arbitration part so that multiple users can access that port, as it is done in those cheap USB "print servers", and of course the driver support for other OS, since it has to conform to existing implementations or provide its own port drivers.

I know that there is a fear that such a feature would redirect some of MT's development effort towards this feature instead of networking. But such a feature is neither urgent, nor very resource hungry from a development point of view, compared to advanced networking features. Especially in the testing/validation part.

All fear it is a strain on MT's developers. I would say it is an opportunity to get a new developer into the team, and use him later on other features 8)
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:56 am

Actually mikrotik already supports print sharing. First you need a routerboard with a usb port. Plug a raspberry pi into it, then plug the printer into the raspberry pi. Install cups and xsane on raspberry pi and you will now have a printer and scanner sharing through usb on mikrotik :P

For mikrotik CCRs i suggest changing the PSU with a better one so that your raspberry pi wont freeze.

Dont forget to plug the ethernet of the raspberry pi into the router/switch
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:33 pm

Very elegant... mikrotik supports printer sharing when using another computer to do it... right. And what about print servers? They are supported by mikrotik too, as long as they use ip protocols... what is more, they do not need to be even powered from mikrotik, because they are by default equipped by their own power supplies :-)
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:24 pm

People, stop this print server issue. You will never get over the hypocrisy of ISP people. ... Experts on this forum know your needs better than yourself and decided you don't need printing support on your MT home router....As you don't need sharing of a hard drive connected to your router, for that matter....:lol:
I would say it is an opportunity to get a new developer into the team, and use him later on other features 8)
You have forgot to mention fax support and scanner support as these home "printers" are mostly not only printers but multifunction devices ... ops ... what about handsets to support skype or VoiP phones or USB camera for monitoring or ... why to limit ourselves ... plug USB speaker and listen to the Mikrotik's brand new Spotify player or plug USB to VGA coverter to watch YouTube ... I do not think that ONE developer will be enough 8)

Why no one have already combined oven with microwave device and dishwasher ? It could be a PERFECT spacesaver for small apartments ... what a bright idea, don't you think ?
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:00 am

You have forgot to mention fax support and scanner support as these home "printers" are mostly not only printers but multifunction devices ... ops ... what about handsets to support skype or VoiP phones or USB camera for monitoring or ... why to limit ourselves ... plug USB speaker and listen to the Mikrotik's brand new Spotify player or plug USB to VGA coverter to watch YouTube ... I do not think that ONE developer will be enough 8)
You obviously have no clue what I was talking about... You do not care about the device on a USB over ethernet approach. You just have to transport USB traffic transparently. There is no development effort for a specific device class, just for the virtual USB adapter, the router side being actually almost implemented by that remote USB serial port part. So it could be a 1 man effort.
And yes, you could plug your USB to VGA converter in and it would work. An access point with USB video converter plus a big screen connected to it makes a wonderful advertisement billboard with remote content management. BTW, this brings more money than a CPE.
Why no one have already combined oven with microwave device and dishwasher ? It could be a PERFECT spacesaver for small apartments ... what a bright idea, don't you think ?
Yes, it actually would. Throw in an expresso machine and and a refrigerator and it gets even better: Integrated Kitchen Appliance Unit. Even with remote control over internet. This could actually be viable and a good idea for a startup...
Internet of things, anyone?

But back to your question of "why": Why do you need routing protocols on a home class router like the hAP or on a simple access point? Why do you need capsman on them? Why do you need winbox instead of the web interface? Why support NV2? None of this is required for home use.
And, if you look into late development, MT steers toward the home user market, because money is in numbers, not in a few elite users.
There are more home routers supporting print server and HDD sharing out there than those supporting advanced routing and management features . So by the same logic you apply, I could say, those advanced features are the ones that shouldn't be there, development should stop and they should focus on features needed for home users. Throw out YOUR gear and get your Cisco if you need such stuff. Waste YOUR money. As home users should waist theirs by throwing out their existing stuff and getting a network printer. It is the same logic, nothing is changed except the target.
The microwave dishwasher combos are the small, cheap, SOHO MT routers featuring carrier grade functions, which YOU use to save money, not the ones with included print servers and file sharing people use at home, which are the norm, not the exception. YOU want an exotic device, not the SOHO users.

But the answer is obvious: You are supporting yours needs only, and deny the needs of others. This is called hypocrisy my friend...

PS: My printers are network printers and I actually don't need this feature, and probably never will. But I don't shut people up by telling them that what they want is nonsense.
Last edited by docmarius on Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:44 am

I'm perfectly aware what you are writing about.

Primo: IoT is not the same as mixing oven with dishwasher. Managing/monitoring devices using some kind of standarized protocol/communication method called with big marketing word an "IoT" is not mixing such different worlds as fire and water.

Secundo: making USB shareable port for LAN users is not implementing printserver what is the main demand for this topic.

Tertio: To use USB port to connect printer or any other device you need to have them close to each other so do you think that printers are located close to routers ?

Quarto: nowadays for most home users network means WiFi connection and they connect via WiFi and devices (read printers) are expected to use WiFi not cables so USB is starting to be passé.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:02 am

Primo: IoT is not the same as mixing oven with dishwasher. Managing/monitoring devices using some kind of standarized protocol/communication method called with big marketing word an "IoT" is not mixing such different worlds as fire and water.
I know what IoT is, and I specified the monitoring part. And you are right, you don't mix fire and water, SOHO with serious routing.
So please request the removal of advanced features from all low cost MT models. This is such a mixing.
Secundo: making USB shareable port for LAN users is not implementing printserver what is the main demand for this topic.
Most users want to share their existing printers in their home or office, they don't give a damn what's behind it as long as it does the job. This was exactly the main demand: printer support.
Tertio: To use USB port to connect printer or any other device you need to have them close to each other so do you think that printers are located close to routers ?
Why do you assume that routers have to be far away from the printer. Why do you think MT builds routers in neat plastic cases or with LCD screens on the top? Because they sit on an office table, not in a rack...
Quarto: nowadays for most home users network means WiFi connection and they connect via WiFi and devices (read printers) are expected to use WiFi not cables so USB is starting to be passé.
As long as you don't give away money for new equipment that meets your expectations, please don't make assumptions. Cables are far away from passé because they are reliable and fast. And not everyone likes to throw out working equipment just because it is not in line with the newest IPhone generation trend.
Why do we still deploy ethernet and fiber optics? Because WiFi, BT, 3G, 4G and LTE are fantastic?

Anyway, the issue is not what's trendy or not, the issue is not to get hysterical on the fact that other persons may have other needs than yourself. These needs are bluntly dismissed by a bunch of people which think they know what others shall or shall not do.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:20 am

In the end it is all about respect. It was a feature request like any other, supported by some. Don't want it, don't use it.
But do not classify it as nonsense or useless just because you don't need it (you as a hypotetical reader, generally speaking). Netwoking feature requests where never dismissed by home users, even if they don't need them, or never even heard about them. Show the same respect to home user requests, like this one, too.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:52 am

Using the cups and xsane means driverless printer and scanner server, only the raspberry pi needs the drivers. On windows you would select a specific driver preincluded but on all other OS it will work fine. Its what i did for quite a while and i usually suggest people to do that by adding a raspberry pi to do the jobs that routers suck at. The printer and scanner sharing on consumer routers are terrible as you need to install the drivers so thats additional bloatware. With cups and xsane you dont.

So its why routers shouldnt really try to have their own print server, if they want they should add cups and xsane instead.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:24 am

The problem with xsane is that it is an gtk/x11 application. There is no X11 support on a mikrotik router. And adding minimal x11 support libraries to allow such applications to run would probably at least triple the size of the firmware. On the other hand, it requires storage space for temporary scanned files, which is not plenty by default on MT routers.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:03 pm

sane is a gtk application, xsane uses a web server so you just use your browser. It may require libraries to handle the graphics and file conversion bit but you shouldnt store this on your router's flash regardless, the files should be stored on an sd card or usb flash drive at least.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:21 pm

So please request the removal of advanced features from all low cost MT models. This is such a mixing.
Just disable unwanted packages and ask Linus to remove some advanced networking funcionality from Linux.
Most users want to share their existing printers in their home or office, they don't give a damn what's behind it as long as it does the job. This was exactly the main demand: printer support.
OK but there are many cheap specialized solutions so why to pack it into router ? If we block the only one USB port with printer so we need the second one for disk to make NAS. NAS is so obvious for home use as printer support. What about the third one for backup LTE dongle ? The fourth we need for ... and so on, so on ....
Why do you assume that routers have to be far away from the printer. Why do you think MT builds routers in neat plastic cases or with LCD screens on the top? Because they sit on an office table, not in a rack...
Do you thing that all use racks ? Do you think that rack in the apartment is "must have" ? Do you have one in your home nearby you desk or TV set ? That is why MKT does make plastic desktop versions. It is much easier to place plastic ones on the desk or in the box where all cables are concentrated (if you have such central place) or as AP over false ceiling than rack version. Small plastic box could also be installed in the rack. LCD is just a toy as we know that it eats so many CPU resources that is it better to switch it off.
As long as you don't give away money for new equipment that meets your expectations, please don't make assumptions. Cables are far away from passé because they are reliable and fast. And not everyone likes to throw out working equipment just because it is not in line with the newest IPhone generation trend.
I do not make any assumptions. Maybe I do not want to pay more for MKT devices just because they need to pay developer for implementing print server funcionality instead of Bonjour protocol for iOS and MacOsX printing ?
Most printers with USB connector demand host printing drivers installed on the computer. USB is used just for sending raw data to the printer so print servers are obsolete for such devices. If we start talking about USB sharing server ... it is a completely different ballgame.
Why do we still deploy ethernet and fiber optics? Because WiFi, BT, 3G, 4G and LTE are fantastic?
This is a completely ludicrous argument, you know why ... crowded wireless bands.
Are you sure that most home users moving in into new house do install cables everywhere to make access for tablets, smartphones or even notebooks ? Why more and more devices use WiFi to be managed as IoT ? Do you expect your refigerator to have RJ45 connector instead of WiFi ? WiFi is becoming the "last yard" home solution.
Anyway, the issue is not what's trendy or not, the issue is not to get hysterical on the fact that other persons may have other needs than yourself. These needs are bluntly dismissed by a bunch of people which think they know what others shall or shall not do.
Do not be ridiculus and do use "hysterical" and "bluntly" arguments. They do not make any positive contribution to this thread.

One could opt for print server, one could not. My need is not to integrate print server so I express my expectations as you do.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:16 pm

There are three ongoing arguments on this forum in recent months:
- threads like this one (feature requests for things not related directly to routing)
- UI should be simplified for newbies
- changes to default firewall configuration

All three of them fall into one broad subject of debate IMO: the very nature of ROS regarding whether it's a SOHO platform or a feature-rich advanced routing platform.

The line is further blurred by the fact that many Mikrotik devices are < $100 and several are < $60. These devices run the same exact OS as the top-of-the-line CCR or a server-class X86 platform running ROS. Therein lies the rub.

IMO, there's no way to satisfy both of these goals in a single solution. The only way to simplify things for beginners is to hide functionality and/or make lots of decisions ahead of time that will fit most cases, and then do things "in the background" based on these decisions. There's already a lot of gear out there that basically does what ROS does at its core: act as a shim for a Linux kernel running on purpose-built hardware. That's what Netgear, Linksys, Ubiquiti, TPLink, Belkin, et. al. do.

Also IMO - It would be more ideal if Mikrotik were to make a SOHO version of ROS that's simplified for the non-expert userbase, and it would be the SOHO O/S which has SOHO goodies like print server, etc. SOHO models could ship with this version, but support full ROS. This would probably warrant a dedicated employee or team as well as some of the suggested features that have been discussed recently which get poo-pooed by the core network crowd, which is why I said it would be 'ideal' and not 'realistic' or 'feasible.'

In the end, I do fall on the core network side of this debate. ROS is the only Linux shim I've found that gives such a complete level of access to the full networking functionality of Linux. It has its limitations, but in the end, that's what it was born to be: a feature-rich Linux-based routing platform stripped of everything unessential for being a router. Mikrotik did target the SOHO market a few years back, and the SOHO feature advocates do have valid points about SOHO concerns, but as ROS currently stands, I tend not to recommend Mikrotik to anyone who has no clue about networking below layer 5-7 + no desire to learn about it. I highly recommend it for anyone who is interested in learning about networking though, because it really lets you do amazing things (and in many cases, things that are bad design but serviceable). In short - a SOHO version of ROS to compliment their SOHO-targeted platforms makes a lot of sense and could vastly improve the end-user experience for novice users, which would only increase their market share, but that may not be something that they have the resources to successfully implement and support.
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Sob
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:36 pm

I'd like to disagree, IMO there is a way to satisfy everyone with one solution. In target group, that's the catch.

It's clear that MikroTik wants to target SOHO market too. But it does not necessarily mean whole SOHO market. IMHO they don't have anything to offer to users who were happily using cheap home routers until now, and I don't think they should even try to change that (at this point). Even cheapest hAP Lite is still more expensive than some other routers, it's hard to configure (for someone who doesn't know anything about networking), and first impression wise, it's nothing special, it doesn't even have bunch of big antennas! ;) They can create a simplified version of RouterOS, to make it more accessible for beginners, but the problem is, every other manufacturer already has something like that. So then why would a beginner (who is not much willing to learn) buy specifically a MikroTik product? To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out, why they do it now. :)

IMO RouterOS is for SOHO market, but only for advanced part of it. It's something unique, it's kind of low level, but at the same time very admin friendly, mostly thanks to WinBox. And what I especially like, is that even the cheapest device offers all features. Who else has that? As I already wrote, MikroTik clearly does target SOHO market, and no matter how they do it, they have to dedicate some resources to it. "Oh no, it will slow down development of <insert your favourite enterprise feature>!" Tough luck, there's no way around it, unless they'd start to target enterprise exclusively.

So what's the solution? Nothing special, keep the basics of RouterOS the way they are now, and just create a new package for non-routing non-enterprise things. From currently available features it might get SMB, UPnP and Quick Set for start. A simple print server would be a logical addition too. Strictly enterprise users would ignore this package, the same way SOHO users ignore some other ones, and everyone could be happy.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:03 pm

After my previous post, I thought that another way to go about it would be to make a "Beginner" version of Winbox or something.
Basically give a simplified interface that is essentially a wizard to set up the existing ROS in whatever way you like.
It wouldn't have to change the underlying ROS at all.

Also, I would definitely agree to the SOHO module (set) being a good compromise.

I guess I just get tired of people nearly having an aneurysm because they can't get every conceivable service implemented in one ~$75 box that's powerful enough to use all features at once while forwarding a full bidirectional gigabit of traffic through a deep packet inspecting firewall. ('Cause TP-Link has a box that does this for $49.95 don't ya know?)

That, and when I see "this will be implemented in ROSv7" posts dating back to 2012 about important things being missing in routing protocol implementation, IPv6, etc, I really would rather Mikrotik spend their efforts on the core functionality instead of getting off into the weeds chasing rabbits in creeping fluffy features.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:42 am

In my understanding, the "beginner version of WinBox" is Quick Set. If you buy MikroTik router by mistake and you don't know anything about networking, it should get you going. I myself avoid it like a plague, which is probably undeserved, but what can I say, when you touch a hot stove, it takes a time before you start trusting it again. But I think that Quick Set is good idea. Polish it a little more, add some often used stuff (e.g. simplified port forwarding with auto-configured hairpin NAT could be nice) and it should be enough for all beginner's needs. I wouldn't go beyond that, because if even this shouldn't be enough, then the customer actually needs completely different product.

About people wanting every possible feature... ok, I confess, I'm guilty. The more, the better. It's probably because of my perception of RouterOS - possibly wrong - as Linux with all its power, but in much nicer package. It's clear that it won't ever have every possible feature, but there are many at least related to networking, which would be nice to have. I agree that it's primarily a router, but we're already beyond that, with all current features it's more than just a router. Of course priorities are important, so ROSv7 first (I'm very interested how it will live to expectations, because those are huge), fluffy features later.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:56 am

Funny thing is - my comment about the all-in-one-box-for-dirt-cheap crowd wasn't directed at you, Sob.
I was mostly having horrible flashbacks to everyone's griping about the hAP AC when it came to the world after so much hype.
It didn't surprise me at all because it was just enough to be a gigabit access point.
There was a large crowd of people going bananas over how it couldn't route at gigabit speeds with any features, etc etc etc.

I actually had a meltdown and posted a rant, which I almost never do.

I am in the same mindset re: Quickset - I played with it when it first came out back in 2012, and found that it easily messed up my configuration, especially if I'd done anything through the regular configurations, or wanted the interface roles moved around. (my then-ISP's cablemodem wouldn't link to the gigabit ports of my 2011, for instance, so I had to make ether6 be the WAN)
I've found that user-friendly front ends tend to get messed up whenever you also have direct access to the under-the-hood stuff. Wizards tend to expect things to be done a very certain way, and if you move even one comment around, it could potentially make the thing go crazy. That's why I think a NewbieWinBox that was ONLY a wizard front end - more featureful than Quickset, and contains a simplified way to do firewall recipes, etc - that would work fine if you could never go under the hood and get directly at the chains / IP lists, etc.
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:42 pm

There is a user friendly version of mikrotik, its called netduma. They essentially use mikrotik hardware and have their own configuration utility and are actually gaming focused.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:32 pm

At the age of GPON RouterBoards are not ISP devices any more. They are rather SOHO devices for GPON ending. MikroTik should think again to find his place on the market. Its not a bad idea to make a print server functionality.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:26 pm

Hi there! I like Mikrotek products and have almost decided to switch from Keenetic as I need to control the sites my teenager-son visits from his tablet. But I have an HP1018 printer connected to Zyxel. What a disappointment that Mikrotek has no build-in solution yet. Will have to stay with my old router. :(
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:10 am

I want this feature to much!!

+3452342
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:19 am

NO, please DO NOT add this feature !!!
Let ROS do what it is supposed to do
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Just buy one of those "usb print server" device, much cheaper than a routerboard
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:33 am

Next vote +1 from me. I am using printer on port 9100 via TPC only. P910nd plugin/module support is good enough if it is possible to implement into MikroTik Route OS.
 
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:38 am

What happened with this?
 
Sob
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:41 pm

There's no official word, but I guess the consideration of this feature is postponed to RouterOS v8 or later. ;)
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Re: Add print server (printer support)

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:00 pm

As pistes earlier, I do not wanna see this feature on RoS... Simply the fact.. This is Router software, there are so many other solutions with printer servers that will do the job

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