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DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Good Morning.
What is the difference between configuring DNS in IP> DNS and DHCP> Networks ?.
I just want my RB750 to provide DNS (8.8.8.8, etc ...) for my LAN devices.
Thanks!
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"  [SOLVED]

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:33 pm

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:12 am

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:47 am

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
Steve "Steveocee" Carter
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:52 pm

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:07 pm

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
Personal preference. I run my home router cacheing as it’s (marginal) performance for free. There is no right or wrong in this instance.
Steve "Steveocee" Carter
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:15 pm

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
Personal preference. I run my home router cacheing as it’s (marginal) performance for free. There is no right or wrong in this instance.
I'm going to test that configuration then, thanks for the help.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:48 am

IP>DNS is the DNS servers you want your router to use. You can leave them blank if you want to use dynamically assigned ones from your ISP.

DHCP>Networks DNS servers are the DNS server addresses the router hands to your DHCP clients.

Usually I use the ISP DNS as it responds fastest (naturally) then tick "Allow remote requests" in IP>DNS (make sure your firewall blocks input DNS on the WAN side doing this) then in DHCP>Networks I hand the routers IP out as the DNS server IP.

This makes the router cache DNS requests.
If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
Personal preference. I run my home router cacheing as it’s (marginal) performance for free. There is no right or wrong in this instance.
To use the "allow remote requests" that Firewall rules you use to not receive attacks to port 53?
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:49 am



If I only configure the DNS in IP> DNS and leave blank in DHCP> Networks, the clients of the DHCP server obtain the IP in "IP>DNS" (unchecking "use peer dns" in the DHCP Client).
That's why I want to know what difference there is between configuring DNS in one and in another.
My configuration: "IP>DNS": 8.8.8.8, "DHCP>Networks": DNS empty, "DHCP Client": "Use peer DNS" unchecked.
Result: In one of the computers I open CMD: "ipconfig / all" and I have the DNS that I configure in "IP>DNS" inside the Mirkrotik.
That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
Personal preference. I run my home router cacheing as it’s (marginal) performance for free. There is no right or wrong in this instance.
To use the "allow remote requests" that Firewall rules you use to not receive attacks to port 53?
You will need to alter the rule so that it only applies to traffic coming in from the WAN interface otherwise it will deny local input traffic as well.
Steve "Steveocee" Carter
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:52 pm



That is right and expected, if you do not explicitly tell the DHCP server to give out alternative DNS servers then it will hand off what the router itself is using.
Ultimately the requests end up going through the router anyway so why not cache them for a possibly faster response for other clients?
The configuration is for my home network, the clients are 2 PC (wired) and 3 wireless devices, nothing else, everything inside my home. Would you recommend me to configure it with the cache as you explained to me in the first post?
Thanks for the help.
Personal preference. I run my home router cacheing as it’s (marginal) performance for free. There is no right or wrong in this instance.
To use the "allow remote requests" that Firewall rules you use to not receive attacks to port 53?
You will need to alter the rule so that it only applies to traffic coming in from the WAN interface otherwise it will deny local input traffic as well.
Thank you very much Steve !
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:34 am

Hi Steve,
- DHCP Client, USE PEER DNS, instructs the router to use ISP DNS servers
- IP DNS, allows one to enter in manually selected DNS Servers such as google and dyndns

They both show up on the IP DNS page, and from what I gather the USE PEER DNS takes precedence and thus
although one may have google or dydns as manual entries the router will use the ISP DNS servers (they appear as dynamically assigned).

Now as brought up by the OP the issue of DHCP Network Server, which is a layer of complication.
If there is an entry here, you are saying it overrides all the IP DNS entries displayed or just the manual admin enter entries?
Does it override the USE PEER DNS ISP entries?

In my case I have set all the DHCP Networks to use the router ie my vlan network 192.168.100.0/24, has a DNS server address of 192.168.100.1
Thus, what I think what should happen is that all clients will be directed to my IP DNS settings and will use dynamic DNS servers of my ISP (if use peer dns was selected) or otherwise use
my manually entered IP DNS settings like google or dyndns??

Now what happens when clients try to use their own DNS servers?

Reason I ask that last question is that I have a redirect rule.....

/ip firewall
Input rules "accept" DNS queries for TCP and UDP on port 53 from my LAN interface
Input last rule is drop all else.

/IP NAT
DSTNAT rules "redirect" DNS queries for TCP and UDP

It is not clear to me what the redirect ACTION is actually doing in this case?
Is it redirecting DNS queries to the DHCP Network setting (192.168.100.1) and thus to the router (IP DNS settings) OR
Is it redirecting DNS queries directly to the IP DNS settings (to ISP DNS servers if USE PEER is selected in client, ELSE, to the manually admin selected servers)?

I am trying to figure out if I can get rid of the redirect rule if it servers no useful purpose.
Also, I have no idea if I am using dns cache????
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:47 am

Hi Steve,
- DHCP Client, USE PEER DNS, instructs the router to use ISP DNS servers
- IP DNS, allows one to enter in manually selected DNS Servers such as google and dyndns

They both show up on the IP DNS page, and from what I gather the USE PEER DNS takes precedence and thus
although one may have google or dydns as manual entries the router will use the ISP DNS servers (they appear as dynamically assigned).

Now as brought up by the OP the issue of DHCP Network Server, which is a layer of complication.
If there is an entry here, you are saying it overrides all the IP DNS entries displayed or just the manual admin enter entries?
Does it override the USE PEER DNS ISP entries?

In my case I have set all the DHCP Networks to use the router ie my vlan network 192.168.100.0/24, has a DNS server address of 192.168.100.1
Thus, what I think what should happen is that all clients will be directed to my IP DNS settings and will use dynamic DNS servers of my ISP (if use peer dns was selected) or otherwise use
my manually entered IP DNS settings like google or dyndns??

Now what happens when clients try to use their own DNS servers?

Reason I ask that last question is that I have a redirect rule.....

/ip firewall
Input rules "accept" DNS queries for TCP and UDP on port 53 from my LAN interface
Input last rule is drop all else.

/IP NAT
DSTNAT rules "redirect" DNS queries for TCP and UDP

It is not clear to me what the redirect ACTION is actually doing in this case?
Is it redirecting DNS queries to the DHCP Network setting (192.168.100.1) and thus to the router (IP DNS settings) OR
Is it redirecting DNS queries directly to the IP DNS settings (to ISP DNS servers if USE PEER is selected in client, ELSE, to the manually admin selected servers)?

I am trying to figure out if I can get rid of the redirect rule if it servers no useful purpose.
Also, I have no idea if I am using dns cache????
The dst-nat redirect rule will match and redirect matched traffic back to the router itself, extremely useful for stopping clients specifying their own DNS servers.
Here is what I use in my home router, the 2 address lists are LAN-DNS which is essentially the routers IP address from each subnet, has my pi-hole server and is there if I want to specify any externals, NAT is the 3 subnets I run on my network that are masqueraded;
/ip firewall nat
add action=redirect chain=dstnat comment="DNS Loopback" dst-address-list=!LAN-DNS dst-port=53 protocol=tcp src-address-list=NAT
add action=redirect chain=dstnat comment="DNS Loopback" dst-address-list=!LAN-DNS dst-port=53 protocol=udp src-address-list=NAT
I would say it is an essential rule if you want to control the DNS and/or want to stop people circumnavigating your efforts.

With regards to use-peer-dns, I was under the impression that the dynamically gained ones took a lower priority than ones you set yourself however saying that, I have since I replied earlier in this thread swapped to using Google servers (my line had a stutter and response from ISP to Google is negligible) so I no longer use the dynamic option. (I don't use default routes either).

To check your router, go into IP > DNS and click on cache, if it has entries then you're cacheing for something.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Super, I will try and find the reference that stated dynamics took preference.
Edit: https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/DHCP_Client

- use-peer-dns (yes | no; Default: yes)
-Text Block Explanation: Whether to accept the DNS settings advertised by DHCP Server. (Will override the settings put in the /ip dns submenu.

Unless you find an alternate reference stating otherwise, I think you may owe me some brewskis :-))))))

Right now mine our turned off and google is what I use.

For the Redirect I came up with the same idea, I created a VLAN interfaces address list and then in the redirect rule I added this with the exclamation in front, so basically not the vlan interfaces but everything else is redirected. Logic being these are segemented specifically to the internet only (smart devices etc) and thus I dont need CPU overhead redirecting those ones.
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 am

Unless you find an alternate reference stating otherwise, I think you may owe me some brewskis :-))))))

"When both static and dynamic servers are set, static server entries are more preferred, however it does not indicate that static server will always be used (for example, previously query was received from dynamic server, but static was added later, then dynamic entry will be preferred)."
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/DNS

Does that mean we need to buy each other some brewskis? :lol:
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:51 pm

I think my Use Peer DNS, 'trumps" your IP DNS reference. In any case, I imagine you like warm beers, which is like stale cigarettes to a smoker OR moldy cheese to John Cleese in the cheese shop, ie gross but it will do pig.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:07 pm

I think my Use Peer DNS, 'trumps" your IP DNS reference. In any case, I imagine you like warm beers, which is like stale cigarettes to a smoker OR moldy cheese to John Cleese in the cheese shop, ie gross but it will do pig.
Use-peer-DNS adds dynamic entries, so the static ones will be preferred (if configured).
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:41 pm

I get it,
It takes a Brit and a Ruskie to outwit the colonial Canadian.
Okay to be accurate, I wasnt talking about Static Entries. In fact I have no clue what those are and have never used them. The only reason I know about them is the stupid default mikrotik settings put one in there for 192.168.88.1 and it took me days to figure out where that was hiding (as I could see it in the export file) LOL.

I am talking about the IP DNS settings that show up at the top of the frigging page IN WHITE BOXES............
These are set by the ADMIN.
What do you call those then???? FIXED DNS settings ;;--)))))

In any case, I was stating that using PEER DNS setting overides the manual FIXED entries on the IP DNS page.

Q. What is the difference between the manual entries and the "hidden" static entries??
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:56 pm

Interesting as both statements can actually be correct at the same time if you read the information as a whole.....

User added entries (user in place of admin, you know, the ones you specify yourself) take priority over servers gained dynamically
-HOWEVER-
If a server is gained dynamically BEFORE a user designated one is entered then the dynamic one will take priority.

Which would work fine as if/when you get a brief pppoe drop or reboot then your self designated ones will be there before your dynamic ones.

I don't know if that's utter total meatballs but it certainly gives us both a pat on the head lol
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:00 pm


I am talking about the IP DNS settings that show up at the top of the frigging page IN WHITE BOXES............
These are set by the ADMIN.
What do you call those then???? FIXED DNS settings ;;--)))))

In any case, I was stating that using PEER DNS setting overides the manual FIXED entries on the IP DNS page.

Q. What is the difference between the manual entries and the "hidden" static entries??
These ARE static entries, and they have higher priorities, than dynamic set by "use peer dns" in DHCP-client, PPPoE-client, etc.
There are no other static (or fixed, or whatever) entries.
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:50 pm

So why is my DNS static entry blank and yet I have four entries in the IP DNS white tab slots.
So why are there many threads where folks want to make their dynamic ISP servers go away but cant (hint uncheck peer dns).

I am not saying you are wrong but the explanations given thus far are incomplete. Dont ASSuME others have either the same IT networking acumen or mikrotik experience.
I will admit there is probably more proof in what you drink, but that doesnt necessarily translate into facts. :-)
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Well, if you have four entries there, how is it blank?!
Remove these four entries, and that would be blank :)
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:46 pm

I hate it when people force me to post jpegs here, its such a pain in the ass to run a forum that one cannot upload jpegs too.

https://imgur.com/a/cGTeYSq

You will note that the DNS STATIC selection is............ BLANK!!!
I have never used that setting.
However you will see four entries up to, which I filled in at one time or another directly on the main page and not the static page.

So, I have no idea what you are getting at.
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mkx
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:53 pm

DNS Static section is where you enter your own pairs FQDN, IP ... normally for your LAN so users don't have to use IP addresses to use services such as network printer or access user interfaces of home cinema or washing machine...
BR,
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:40 pm

Thank you mkx, you used the word static NOT to describe the Entries above the dynamic servers. :-)
Stated another way, there is no extra or describing word Prior to the word SERVERs at the top.
THere is a menu selection on the right that says static, which points to the blank popup page.

Lesson learned, I am quoting the facts, others are simply expressing the fact that the top selections are static in that they dont change once put in by a user but they are not the official STATIC DNS entries that mkx describes.

Thus far I have not seen a shred of evidence that manual entries at the top of this page take precedence over dynamic servers when USE PEER DNS is selected at ISP client settings. I am rarely correct on these matter and expect to be wrong again, but where is the beef???
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:41 pm

I guess no need to further explain the difference between static DNS servers settings and static DNS entries? :)
 
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Re: DNS: Difference between "IP>DNS" and "DHCP>Networks"

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:27 pm

That is correct.
I will be requesting an amendment to the mikrotik wiki to ensure they explain the meaning of the word "Servers" at the top of the IP DNS menu as manually entered semi-static temporary entries completely at the mercy of the fickle admin. ;-) Or perhaps Normis would like to change the word Servers on all devices, to Static DNS Entries.
Meanwhile I think I have an appointment with four white padded walls.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)

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