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szodiac
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Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 7:24 am

One that can completely replace my Netgear R7000?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 11:42 am

Yes, it can be a wireless router.

Mikrotik will do everything the Netgear can and beyond.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 3:07 pm

Solar what do you lose using the hAP ac as a router compared to using the HEX as ones router. (putting wifi aside for the moment).
I think that may be an important question/answer that would be highlighted by comparing to perhaps a purchase of
hex +cAP ac (or wAP ac) etc................
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 3:49 pm

Hello anav

WiFi aside, both will do the sane things. hEX's major point is hardware encryption which really offloads the CPU.

Other than that, you can go to routerboard.com to compare performances.

Cheers

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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 6:04 pm

You cannot compare a hAP ac to a hEX. The latter will obliterate the former in Gigabit Ethernet routing and IPSEC. They are designed for different things.

Anyway, to answer OP's question: the R7000 was the top ranked 3x3 consumer router for a long time and is still massively popular (how often do you see any consumer product with 10k reviews on Amazon!). The hAP ac should compare very well in throughput. My findings in close range is that it easily beats an R7000. However, latency for low latency applications may be a different issue. If you are going to use your WiFi router for highly intensive gaming, for example, which is generally a very bad idea over WiFi anyway, then you're better off looking elsewhere and do lots of testing for each potential device.

If you need strong OpenVPN client support, USB 3.0 storage on your router, or convenient open source support, again look at non-Mikrotik devices.

Mikrotik's and hAP ac's advantages are many: enterprise-level and accessible routing configuration options, very high uptime, high default security, consistent and long term updates, rapid security fixes, and good hardware design & build quality, e.g. no noise like hissing or buzzing. The hAP ac makes a much better standalone WiFi router than most 3x3 consumer wireless routers and below, especially at its price. The main thing most consumers care about once the product is delivered is something that "just works", i.e. high uptime with stable performance, convenient update process - good luck finding anything easier than Mikrotik at updating - and long term update support. For all that, Mikrotik SOHO products represent amazing value for ordinary consumers.
Last edited by squeeze on Tue May 08, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Whoa. I can get a hex and run my IKEv2/IPSEC connection at 470 Mbps with its hardware acceleration? On my 500 Mbps service? Then throw a cAP ac on the ceiling for wifi? If this is true I'm going to be sporting wood. And ordering.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:05 pm

Whoa. I can get a hex and run my IKEv2/IPSEC connection at 470 Mbps with its hardware acceleration? On my 500 Mbps service? Then throw a cAP ac on the ceiling for wifi? If this is true I'm going to be sporting wood. And ordering.
Careful of splinters.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Exactly szodiak, tis why I was asking the difference between the two units..........
In honour of the impending woody!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_eK42Sw7DY
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 12:56 am

hEX will be here tomorrow. Wireless AP coming Monday. We'll see if an IT novice can replace a R7000 with these items.
Since my needs are so modest (three users, one medium house) I'm thinking I can get there with the readily-available resources.
SO looking forward to running an IKE2/IPsec connection at ~470Mbs. TIMBER!!!
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 7:45 am

Yes, it can be a wireless router.

Mikrotik will do everything the Netgear can and beyond.
even openvpn over udp? :)
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm

Yes, it can be a wireless router.

Mikrotik will do everything the Netgear can and beyond.
even openvpn over udp? :)
well that would be ground breaking :-)
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 12:58 pm

@szodiac

Have you broke it yet? keep backup files so that you can always come back to the last working state, something I've had to learn very quickly when started with Mikroitk.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 2:47 pm

One that can completely replace my Netgear R7000?
Wireless performance of the R7000 will wipe the floor of the hAP ac or the hAP ac2 --- not an apples to apples comparison. In AP mode the R7000 is a very solid wireless performer, place it in a dedicated VLAN and it will be your cats meow for its wireless area of coverage

As a Router the hAP ac and the hAP ac2 will wipe the floor of the R7000 without blinking one eyelid. Because of RouterOS + winbox the hAP ac and the hAP ac2 wireless feature set and Routing capabilities are significantly more powerful than whats included in the R7000 -- as long as one is capable of exploiting those amazing RouterOS capabilities.
Last edited by mozerd on Fri May 11, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 4:31 pm

On the other hand, compared to the cAP AC, the R7000 would look butt fugging ukly hanging on the wall or from the ceiling. ;-P
Last edited by anav on Thu May 17, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 11, 2018 11:22 pm

If you were looking down dedicated wireless AP only though, a Unifi UAP-AC-Pro would be the "go to" for most.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 12, 2018 2:40 am

Well budget wise, and using one OS is the reason I am sticking with cAP AC.
Plus it has a four core CPU for running multiple SSIDs........
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 12, 2018 2:57 am

Got a UAP-AC-LR coming on Monday. Further research before ordering an AP led me in that general direction. Didn't think the PRO was warranted in my particular case. Just opened my hEX and it scores a 10 on cuteness factor. Now to see how lost I can get trying to configure this dude. Hope Quick Set works well.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 12, 2018 3:12 am

Yup, I was torn between the LR performance but wanted to stick with one software set of rules.........
Good choice!!
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 am

hEX is up and running. Sheesh, what a tough slog for a non-IT guy like me. Even now, I don't see how to get the router to engage warp drive and use hardware acceleration on my IKEv2/IPsec connection with 500 Mbps service. Also, I don't see how to add the new firewall rules recommended in the documentation. The documentation isn't going to win any awards for clarity. Haven't tried to add the UAP-AC-LR wireless AP to the mix yet. If anyone has suggestions on the IKEv2/IPsec issue I'd be grateful. Soon I will contact the authorized reseller from whom I purchased and see if they can help.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 1:48 am

hEX is up and running. Sheesh, what a tough slog for a non-IT guy like me. Even now, I don't see how to get the router to engage warp drive and use hardware acceleration on my IKEv2/IPsec connection with 500 Mbps service.
Are You sure? Take a look at the output of

/ip ipsec installed-sa print

An "H" at the left will indicate hardware acceleration.

There are some constraints, in order to use it. This page show them:
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... celeration
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 7:06 am

Don't know how to do that. Have to open a command line interface somewhere somehow? That's what I need to be able to do to add a couple new firewall rules recommended in the docs. Verbose mode please.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:22 pm

You can ssh into the device.

Or you can use Webfig (web interface) or Winbox (Windows client). Both of them can open a terminal window. At Webfig, it is the button on the upper right, labeled "Terminal". Don't remember where it is on Winbox.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 5:35 pm

Szodiac, winbox is your friend. Suggest you use it and play at bit with the terminal command line within WINBOX. You will get the hang of it.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 10:09 pm

I've been using both Webfig and Winbox since I first got the hEX. Just learned from you kind folks that I needed to open a "terminal" to enter command line items such as those I referred to previously. Winbox has a "New Terminal" button right there right on the main page. Sorry for my ignorance of IT jargon.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 10:26 pm

And I do indeed get an "H" on the left of the output of Paternot's suggested command. It's just not using the hardware acceleration yet, no doubt because I've failed to make the necessary changes in the configuration of the hEX. If I run straight through the hEX using no VPN I get my full 500Mbps. When I tell Windows to use an IKEv2 connection to a specific server of my VPN provider known to be compatible with IKEv2/IPsec connections, I drop to 80Mbps.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Thu May 17, 2018 11:10 pm

If there is an "H" there, You are using hardware acceleration.

Now we need to check the other possibilities. One thing that really destroys VPN speed is fragmentation. Check the MTUs. IPsec/L2TP impose an overhead, so the PPP interface MTU should be lowered. A good start point is 1380 - equivalent of (ethernet frame - VPN overhead).

Another thing is latency. If the test is made with (say) file sharing, then it will never be fast - as the latency will kill the speed. One good (and easy) test is an http download of a (single) huge file.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 12:04 am

I see a menu under PPP / Interfaces / L2TP Server. The Max MTU value here is currently set to 1450. But at the top the "Enabled" box is not checked. Also, about two-thirds of the way down there is a "Use IPsec" dropdown has a current value of "no". Am I in the right place in Winbox?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 12:33 am

This is the server configuration. Your router is being used as a client, right? So, You should go to PPP / Interfaces, and (at least in Webfig) You should see the L2TP interface You use to connect to the server.

Open it, and You will find the same field MTU.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 1:07 am

OK, I've switched to Webfig for now so we're past that. In Webfig, when I go to PPP / Interface, it shows only tabs. Below this it shows "0 items". I take it I need to add an appropriate interface which would then show up in the currently empty table? The dropdown menu in Add New shows a number of choices for this field, and I'm guessing "L2TP client" would be the needed selection?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 2:50 am

Yes, it would be. But there is something I don't understand: Isn't it working? Slowly, but working? I thought You were using L2TP/IPsec. Were You using just IPsec?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 6:39 am

Router is working, mostly. I don't know what the difference between L2PT and IPsec is, never heard of either until a week ago. Unless it was part of the out-of-the-box configuration, I doubt whether I'm using L2PT or IPsec. Sure not using them on purpose. Don't know how to begin using L2PT or IPsec. Or how to engage one or both. Or how they are related. Think of me as a virtual 10-year-old. I appreciate your posts but they are over my head. Please dumb them down for me.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 1:52 pm

In case I missed it, your VPN throughput is predicated upon throughput AT BOTH ENDS of the connection. So even if you have 500Mbps at the HEX if the remote location can only do 30Mbps the connection is as fast as the weakest link.............

Also VPN is not easy but very doable. One has to know the requirements before you start. So what or where are you connecting to? Is this vpn for yourself when away from home or the office and want to reach your network? Is it to connect two businesses?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Fri May 18, 2018 3:04 pm

Router is working, mostly. I don't know what the difference between L2PT and IPsec is, never heard of either until a week ago. Unless it was part of the out-of-the-box configuration, I doubt whether I'm using L2PT or IPsec. Sure not using them on purpose. Don't know how to begin using L2PT or IPsec. Or how to engage one or both. Or how they are related. Think of me as a virtual 10-year-old. I appreciate your posts but they are over my head. Please dumb them down for me.
Ok, let's start from the beginning:

You said:
"hEX is up and running. Sheesh, what a tough slog for a non-IT guy like me. Even now, I don't see how to get the router to engage warp drive and use hardware acceleration on my IKEv2/IPsec connection with 500 Mbps service."

So, You do have an IPsec connection working. At least, had for a while.

Now, re reading Your posts, I'm thinking You are the client on this connection. Right? You pay some VPN service, and connect to it. Am I right?

About not knowing what IPsec and L2TP are:

IPsec encrypts the traffic. It doesn't care about what the traffic is. But it is quite hard to setup right - with lots of gotchas and caveats.
L2TP is a tunnel protocol. It exists to create a virtual way between two endpoints. You can think about it like an virtual ethernet cable. But its cryptography is weak and outdated.

IPsec can be used with various different configurations:
One of them is pure IPsec - when You use just IPsec to create the "path" between the two endpoints.
Another is what we call L2tP/IPsec - we just create an L2TP tunnel between two endpoints, and encrypt it with IPsec. The biggest advantage is to avoid the really complex task of setting access and routing through IPsec. We only need to configure IPsec to the 2 L2TP endpoints. The rest goes trough the L2TP tunnel, and our lives are much easier.

So, to recap: are You a client? Is Your IPsec connection working? Even slowly, is it working?
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 12:27 am

Yes, I believe I'm a client. This is a single home router. I am retired, no business use or need. No one wants or needs to connect to the router or home network when they are away from home.
A few weeks ago, I followed the directions from my VPN provider, NordVPN, to set up an IKEv2 connection in Windows. This connection works with my R7000. I can connect through Nord's servers either the "regular" way or the new IKEv2 way which Nord has only had a few months. Either way takes my 500Mbps service down to about 125Mbps through my R7000.
So my hope is to be able to make this IKEv2 connection run in the vicinity of 470Mbps as the hEX is supposedly capable of doing. Currently the hEX is only doing 80Mbps and is unstable with an IKEv2 connection running and frequently drops out. Usually, when I then dump the IKEv2 connection, the internet comes back up.
Still don't understand how IKEv2 and IPsec are related and probably don't need to. I'm just trying to do what's needed in Webfig or Winbox to make 470Mbps happen.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 1:37 am

So basically before the R7000 really was not involved as the software on your PC handled the connection.
What the plan would be is to move this work off the PC and program the mikrotik to do it for you.

Now reading the FAQ on the nordvpn website, they state to expect a 30% loss in throughput using nordvpn services.
That would mean the best you can expect is 350 for throughput.
However, it later goes on to say that the best you should expect to get from their service is 60 throughput.

Perusing the google net the there seemed to be a range of 70-130Mbps download speed for nordvpn. Upload on all services was far far less.
So saying expectations should be tempered.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 2:58 am

Yes, I believe I'm a client. This is a single home router. I am retired, no business use or need. No one wants or needs to connect to the router or home network when they are away from home.
A few weeks ago, I followed the directions from my VPN provider, NordVPN, to set up an IKEv2 connection in Windows. This connection works with my R7000. I can connect through Nord's servers either the "regular" way or the new IKEv2 way which Nord has only had a few months. Either way takes my 500Mbps service down to about 125Mbps through my R7000.
So my hope is to be able to make this IKEv2 connection run in the vicinity of 470Mbps as the hEX is supposedly capable of doing. Currently the hEX is only doing 80Mbps and is unstable with an IKEv2 connection running and frequently drops out. Usually, when I then dump the IKEv2 connection, the internet comes back up.
Still don't understand how IKEv2 and IPsec are related and probably don't need to. I'm just trying to do what's needed in Webfig or Winbox to make 470Mbps happen.
Much better. Now we know where we are.

This look a reasonable start point. With one caveat: Steps 5, 6 and 7 can be ignored. When You check the "use IPsec" option on L2TP the router does them for You.
https://support.nordvpn.com/#/Connectiv ... -Setup.htm
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 5:11 am

You sir are my hero.
Just curious: At the top of those instructions it states: "Although technically you can use the L2TP / PPTP protocols, they have serious security flaws. Whenever possible, we recommend choosing OpenVPN or IKEv2/IPSec instead." And then they go on to state how to use L2TP/PPTP protocols and not the others protocols which they recommend! They definitely have servers compatible with IKEv2. Seems strange.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 5:16 am

Just looked. Nord has 68 servers compatible with L2TP/IPsec and 1501 servers compatible with IKEv2/IPsec.
Yet the Mikrotik how-to shows the way to accomplish the former and not the latter.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 5:41 am

The crypto used by L2TP is, indeed, quite weak. But L2TP/IPsec doesn't have this problem - as we are encrypting the L2TP weak crypto inside the IPsec (ike1 or ike2) strong one.

But I agree with you: the text is not clear enough. And the instructions must have being made to an older version of Mikrotiks - one time the router didn't create the dynamic policies we need.
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sat May 19, 2018 4:58 pm

Im no vpn guru let alone mikrotik ready but it should do the IKEv2 thingamabobber!

https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... 2_RSA_auth


Not a mickrotik site thus caution
https://jcutrer.com/howto/networking/mi ... n-mikrotik
 
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Re: Uh, can I think of the hAP ac as a wireless router?

Sun May 20, 2018 11:38 pm

Almost there. Heard back from Nord. Their reply was:

"Unfortunately, there is no way to configure Mikrotik with IKEv2/IPsec as it does not accept some of the configurations that our servers use.

We have tried to set it up, however, we have not been able to do it successfully as it was lacking some of the configuration options that our servers use."

At least I know I have to go with L2PT/IPsec . Nord has specific instructions online for doing this on the Mikrotik. Surprised to see anyone state the hEX lacks some configuration option needed for IKEv2/IPsec. That thing has a ridiculous number of options. Good news is Mikrotik's web site states the hEX is capable of 470Mbps (possibly constrained elsewhere) with IPsec, so maybe the hardware acceleration doesn't care what wrapper delivers the IPsec center.

Thank you all so much for your help.

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