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arrowcatcher
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Vendor question

Tue May 19, 2020 7:10 pm

I ordered two Metal AP's from two different vendors and got two variants as you can see in the image. They each have somewhat different internal menus. For instance, one has 13 firewall options and the other has 5. It was a pain to get one of them to work initially, requiring fiddling in the firewall menu. They are outdoors. One is 2.4 GHz and the other 5 GHz.

I recently had an additional new issue with the "pain" unit (2 barcode labels on the box). I got a new HP laptop (Realtek 8821CE Wifi adapter) for evaluation. Had the odd problem where the laptop would quick connect to the 5 GHz Metal, but with no data flow. The laptop connected fine to other 5 GHz sources, just not the Metal. A real head scratcher. I finally fixed this by carefully going through the Metal menus and fiddling. For "Installation" the 2.4 GHz unit shows "indoor" and "outdoor" (chose "outdoor" in the initial setup). However, the "pain" unit menu shows "indoor", "outdoor", and "any" with a default to the latter. I changed "any" to "outdoor", and that resolved the problem. Whew. Other machines could connect but just not that new laptop. Now everything connects OK at 5 GHz.

Both are running 6.46.6. The differences in the two units continued after a hardware reset of the pain unit yesterday.

For future reference, are there normally a lot of Metal variants floating around at vendors? For one thing, inconsistent product makes cookie-cutter setups difficult. And in this case, one of the units was especially troublesome. in fact, to get the thing to initially work as a WISP bridge out of the box, it was necessary to modify its default firewall settings, a huge pain for someone new to the product. The other unit was easy.
[img]http://ostenta.net/files/vendor-question.jpg
 
pe1chl
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Re: Vendor question

Tue May 19, 2020 7:28 pm

What do you mean with "firewall options"? Do you mean "firewall rules"?
If so, what you find there depends on the RouterOS version that was present when the unit was first initialized.
After having update this, you should do a "reset to defaults" to get that aligned to the current RouterOS version.
With the same RouterOS versions, all units should basically behave in the same way, although of course there are differences between 2.4 and 5 GHz (e.g. the channel numbers).
 
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bpwl
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Re: Vendor question

Tue May 19, 2020 9:53 pm

I don't understand what he difference is between those 2 devices. Certainly not by studying the pictures from the boxes.

Both contain a - RBMetalG-52SHPacn-US (USA) (if the content matches the box. Label on the device should match that of the box)

The specs say: - RBMetalG-52SHPacn-US (USA) is factory locked for 2412-2462MHz, 5170-5250MHz and 5725-5835MHz frequencies. This lock can not be removed
The Metal 52 ac supports 2.4GHz, 5GHz and all the legacy wireless modes as well (802.11 b/g/n for 2.4GHz and 802.11 a/n/ac for 5GHz).

(https://mikrotik.com/product/RBMetalG-52SHPacn)

OK; the block diagram shows only one radio. So either you operate in 2.4GHz or in 5 GHz. But both are possible and depend on your configuration setting.

So I expect that you see something like this list in the config options for wireless WLAN1. The list contains 2.4GHz and 5 GHz bands.
Klembord-2.jpg
(taken from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4jOSp7sKVA , just to have the image)

So the selection of a 2.4GHz unit and a 5 GHz unit is yours. Or not. Sorry please explain, can't follow what your request really is.

If you tell what your setup will be used for, then someone could give the initial setup to use.
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 5:29 pm

The two units both work fine with my configuration. However, there are obvious differences in the WebFig menus. Plus the firewall rules setup is different on each right out of the box. 5 rules on one unit and 13 on the other. One example was the "Installation" option list I gave where one unit offers "indoor" and "outdoor" choices in WebFig, and the other offers "any", "indoor", and "outdoor". As mentioned, if you leave it at default "any", there are connection issues. The units are outdoors, and "outdoor" must be chosen, or there are problems. The "any" default is not a viable choice. It was puzzling to figure this out on the one unit. When I first set up the unit, I had just left it at the default "any", but how was I to know this choice would cause connection issues.

However, now that you mention it, here's another issue.
"The specs say: - RBMetalG-52SHPacn-US (USA) is factory locked for 2412-2462MHz, 5170-5250MHz and 5725-5835MHz frequencies. This lock can not be removed."

Both of my samples at 5 GHz and 20 MHz BW are actually limited to only 5745-5825 MHz per the Quickset or WebFig menus. That's only a choice of 5745, 5765, 5785, 5805, 5825 MHz. I can't find any way to have the full range of advertised choices. Choosing 20/40/80 XXXX BW limits the unit to only two channels 5745, 5765. I don't understand why the two units are locked to a lesser range than specified. In a more crowded tight scenario, this wouldn't be enough choices. In Quickset, the unit is locked for the "united states3" region. At 2.4, I get the full advertised range of choices, but not at 5. My other access devices do work over the full 5 GHz band range, just not these two Metals. Why are they locked to a narrower than specified range?
 
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BartoszP
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Upgrade, reset to the default configuration and then compare.
Or reset to "no-default-configuration" and start configuring from scratch.
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 5:46 pm

I did do a full reset with the physical button and have 6.46.6 with a fresh configuration. All my remarks are based on this. I used the physical button for a full hard reset.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 6:15 pm

The two units both work fine with my configuration. However, there are obvious differences in the WebFig menus. Plus the firewall rules setup is different on each right out of the box. 5 rules on one unit and 13 on the other. One example was the "Installation" option list I gave where one unit offers "indoor" and "outdoor" choices in WebFig, and the other offers "any", "indoor", and "outdoor". As mentioned, if you leave it at default "any", there are connection issues. The units are outdoors, and "outdoor" must be chosen, or there are problems. The "any" default is not a viable choice. It was puzzling to figure this out on the one unit. When I first set up the unit, I had just left it at the default "any", but how was I to know this choice would cause connection issues.

However, now that you mention it, here's another issue.
"The specs say: - RBMetalG-52SHPacn-US (USA) is factory locked for 2412-2462MHz, 5170-5250MHz and 5725-5835MHz frequencies. This lock can not be removed."

Both of my samples at 5 GHz and 20 MHz BW are actually limited to only 5745-5825 MHz per the Quickset or WebFig menus. That's only a choice of 5745, 5765, 5785, 5805, 5825 MHz. I can't find any way to have the full range of advertised choices. Choosing 20/40/80 XXXX BW limits the unit to only two channels 5745, 5765. I don't understand why the two units are locked to a lesser range than specified. In a more crowded tight scenario, this wouldn't be enough choices. In Quickset, the unit is locked for the "united states3" region. At 2.4, I get the full advertised range of choices, but not at 5. My other access devices do work over the full 5 GHz band range, just not these two Metals. Why are they locked to a narrower than specified range?
But you use one at 2.4GHz and one in the 5 GHZ band ? Two different setups.after selecting the band.
If they are different out-of-the-box, somebody may have tried one, without resting to factory default before putting it back in the box.

If you are locked to "united states3" then you are locked to following frequencies: (output from the CLI interface)
> interface wireless info country-info
country: united states3
ranges: 2402-2472/b,g,gn20,gn40(30dBm)
5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)/indoor
5735-5835/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)/outdoor

That's where indoor/outdoor/any hits in. With indoor you can only use the 2.4GHz band and the first line of the 5 GHz band
With "outdoor" you can use the 2.4 GHz band, and the second line of the 5 GHz band.
With "any" you can use all 3 lines.
5170-5250 is forbidden outdoors in USA3 (is what I read from this Mikrotik table).
5735-5835 is to be used outdoor, but you will harm no-one if you use it indoor.
It's all about interfering with emergency services and (weather) radar systems, that have priority over wifi for using those channels.

5735 till 5835 has only a limited number of 20 MHz wide channels. 80 MHz needs 4 channels .
Klembord-2.jpg
So you only have 149-153-157-161 or 153-157-161-165 as possible combinations.
Note the Mikrotik notation: 8745/Ceee is 8745(or 149) as control channel, and the 3 e's are the 3 extension channels 153-157-161
So 8765/eCee would use the same channels, with 8765 (or 153) as control channel and extension channels 149 and 157 and 161.

Mikrotik has announced it is working on its UNII-2 certifications in the US (see change logs and newsletter)
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pe1chl
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 7:32 pm

I did do a full reset with the physical button and have 6.46.6 with a fresh configuration. All my remarks are based on this. I used the physical button for a full hard reset.
Then probably you made a small mistake and this full hard reset did not take. You need precise timing to do that successfully.
Really, you need to do a reset to defaults. Just do it from the menu.
 
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Re: Vendor question

Wed May 20, 2020 11:49 pm

Bunch of twists and turns, but I'm learning. In North America, the lower 5 GHz channels are restricted to indoors in Canada but not in the US. In the US, the first 4 are open while the next 4 call for DFS. https://www.electronics-notes.com/artic ... dwidth.php

I don't understand why, but when the Metal "Installation" was set to "any", the new laptop could connect but not transfer data. After switching to "outdoor", it then worked. However, now I can use "any", "indoor", or "outdoor" and all choices work OK. Honestly, that was a head scratching hassle (Win 10 firewall, Metal firewall, etc.?). But anyway, it all works perfect now. Somehow kicking the software around got it going. Maybe something got cached somewhere. Whatever, I'm happy.

After doing an area survey, I chose 5200 MHz (channel 40) which is locally empty. I was using 5825 MHz (channel 165) at 20 MHz which likely would always be empty due to BW restrictions set on that end channel. However, I knew I could get an RF propagation advantage by using the lowest possible frequency. The 600+ MHz. difference is significant. I just did another outdoor survey and sure enough that's true. Up to a 4 db propagated strength advantage in various spots, some paths degraded by foliage. Using the lowest or highest 2.4 GHz band channel doesn't matter in this way, but it would on the 5 GHz band segments.

When I was in business, a lot of this didn't matter for close-in hardwired office setups. However, I live in rural valley with acreage. Want more coverage and not many others nearby with whom to interfere. So haven't needed to study WiFi technique in detail. No crowded bands here. RF is finally bounded and absorbed by trees and hillsides.

I did some searching in Mikrotik online setup info, and everything I find for DFS capability is old. References to "superchannel" as well. Don't see anything related to that in 6.46.6. The Metal simply doesn't make DFS channels available at least in the default configuration. Found a relevant YouTube video which was informative but not specifically detailed. Doesn't matter, but I'm just curious about Mikrotik Metal and DFS. My ATT fiber BGW210 router can be set on the DFS channels, but the Mikrotik Metal cannot.

Thanks very much to all for the replies. They are very helpful.

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