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jKaufmann
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Forum exact search

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:26 am

New to MikroTik and this forum, I began with a DHCP-server problem on Terminal, and thought I should search before asking -- but I get a lot of cruft and don't see how to get an exact search. For example, "dhcp-server" (with or without + prefix) gets thousands of hits, because it matches on "DHCP", "dhcp-"client, "server" and so on. How can I narrow the search to what I want (which happens to be command line /ip dhcp-server set lease-time not working). [The first part of my learning curve seems to be learning how to use the forum.]
 
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normis
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Re: Forum exact search

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:42 am

Just like with anything computer related:

1. read the help text next to the search entry box, there are examples given
2. use quotes and plus sign, just like in any other computer search
3. if search gives too many results, include additional keywords related to your specific issue
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:04 pm

Just like with anything computer related:

1. read the help text next to the search entry box, there are examples given
Actually, no examples, though it does mention the +/- search modifiers [not that I needed that, but nice to have the confirmation]. Curiously, considering your next point, it does not mention quotes for exact search (but maybe that is because it does not honor quotes for exact search, as noted next).
2. use quotes and plus sign, just like in any other computer search
Did you really think I had not done those things? Please try a simple test: search on "dhcp-server" (with quotes). Among the 8223 hits will include (as I mentioned) DHCP, "dhcp-"client, "server" and so on -- in other words, I can't see that the quotes actually did anything. Did they?
3. if search gives too many results, include additional keywords related to your specific issue
Before adding additional keywords, I want to be sure I understand the search syntax rules.

I should mention also that I very much appreciate the "Getting the most out of this forum" advice from your sig, especially for leading me to Eric Raymond's "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" - classic. You instantly paid off the cost of joining this forum, thanks. I don't know if I needed the specific advice, but he expresses the thoughts wonderfully. If I may repay in a small way: your zscreen link is dead, though the zscreen project seems to be alive. I'm just not sure how you would like the link fixed.

With regard to screen shots generally, the only way to include them is to link to a file, not upload the file to this forum, correct?

Finally, this has raised another learning-curve question, about formatting line spaces. As you can see, I tried to reply to each of your points inline, but could not find a way to put line space between responding to one point and quoting the next. Is there a way?
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:30 pm

Just like with anything computer related: ...
1. read the help text next to the search entry box, there are examples given
Actually, no examples, though it does mention the +/- search modifiers ... Curiously ... it does not mention quotes for exact search (but maybe that is because it does not honor quotes for exact search, as noted next).
2. use quotes and plus sign, just like in any other computer search
... Please try a simple test: search on "dhcp-server" (with quotes). Among the 8223 hits will include (as I mentioned) DHCP, "dhcp-"client, "server" and so on ...
Well, after a couple days we must move on, and it seems the moral of this thread is that there is no answer to the thread title: There is no syntax (including quotes) to specify an exact search token (which limits utility of the forum, especially for command line issues). As there is no resolution, it would have been nice to get to that point a few days ago.
 
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Re: Forum exact search

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:51 pm

Does jhKaufie pooh need some help?? ;-)



.
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apestalménos
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Re: Forum exact search

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:06 pm

Why would anybody help after the response he posted?
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:21 am

Do you have something to offer? The question was simple and straightforward. I don't ever mind hearing that I should RTFM, but after demonstrating that I had (before posting the question), I requested a simple test: search on "dhcp-request" and note how many of the 8K+ hits have nothing to do with the command line. With no reply in a couple days, I assumed no reply would be coming. Did you have trouble reading that, or trouble understanding the request? Can you answer the question? (The point of the question, of course, is to be able to search effectively before posting a question that has already been answered.)
 
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normis
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:50 am

I still think I provided enough information for you to find any dhcp related queries (include more keywords, there are thousands of dhcp related posts!)
This forum uses a standard forum engine, just like many other sites. MikroTik has no control over how phpbb make their program.
Are you complaining to every website operator that their search gives too many results?

If the forum search is too limiting, just like with any website, try this trick:
Screenshot 2021-03-12 at 08.53.30.jpg
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msatter
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:41 am

The same can be used in Duckduckgo, but a lot more PRIVATE.
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:38 pm

I still think I provided enough information for you to find any dhcp related queries (include more keywords, there are thousands of dhcp related posts!)
Often the first way way one narrows a search is to search on an exact string -- which is what I was trying to do, and why I asked the question.
This forum uses a standard forum engine, just like many other sites. MikroTik has no control over how phpbb make their program.
Are you complaining to every website operator that their search gives too many results?
No. Usually (as you said) quotes do that job. Since that did not work here, I thought/hoped that I had simply missed something, so I asked. (It was not a complaint.)
If the forum search is too limiting, just like with any website, try this trick: Screenshot 2021-03-12 at 08.53.30.jpg
That's a good point -- and exactly what I later did [though google is not my particular engine of choice]. I just wanted to understand how this forum works -- as I said, so that I could search effectively before posting questions -- and did not expect that to ignite flames. [I think I followed exactly the practice you recommended http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.] In all things, truth is the objective, and the first principle.
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:50 pm

The same can be used in Duckduckgo, but a lot more PRIVATE.
Yes, thanks. That is my preference. (And what I finally did. A helpful reply to the initial question might have simply said that the forum does not support exact search, and offered that suggestion.)
 
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anav
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:47 pm

Glad you found a way to search and get all the information you need and thus can we count on not seeing any further threads/questions? ;-)
 
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mkx
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:23 pm

If we just ignore @anav (sometimes he switches to a troll-mode, at other times he's much nicer): the sad reality of vast majority of web pages is that built-in search engines are of poor quality and mostly return useless results. I often wonder why they exist after all if smartly crafted link to search engine of choice (in this case web site administrator's choice) would serve much better.

BTW, in my setup (firefox), forum's search field is really near to browser's search field ... I always use the later and are mostly happy with search results. I've given up hope to find decent search engine on the page already quite some time ago.
 
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anav
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:36 pm

My dear MKX, when you do read my signa line, you will find this revealing and illuminating tidbit ..........."Ascerbic Llama".
I am just staying true to character!!

I must admit, ever since 'anav' was banned from the google search engine, I only use the Mikrotik Search Engine (also have a crush on normis , so dont want to upset him).
I also read through all the topics at the MUMs and finally do search in Youtube for specific topics.
Mostly though in my Mikrotik Searches I put (TOPIC & SINDY & !MKX), so that I can get a well detailed solution fast ;-P
 
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mkx
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:12 pm

Mostly though in my Mikrotik Searches I put (TOPIC & SINDY & !MKX), so that I can get a well detailed solution fast ;-P
I'm past the point of getting offended by such remarks from you ... if that's what you were aiming at.
 
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anav
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:48 pm

Having thick skin and being able to laugh at yourself are two valuable attributes in the life toolbox.
 
msatter
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:59 pm

Having thick skin and being able to laugh at yourself are two valuable attributes in the life toolbox.
It time to shave your wool, after five years not being shave, and you will much lighter and fit for the summer.

Anyone wanting the whool, to knit a vest?
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm

If we just ignore @anav (sometimes he switches to a troll-mode, at other times he's much nicer):
That's an easy IF. Trolling is a sad substitute for living; long ago I learned that not feeding it may help someone to a better life.
the sad reality of vast majority of web pages is that built-in search engines are of poor quality and mostly return useless results. I often wonder why they exist after all if smartly crafted link to search engine of choice (in this case web site administrator's choice) would serve much better.
Having never produced a BB system, I can only speculate, but suspect there may be limits to embedding a major search engine.
BTW, in my setup (firefox), forum's search field is really near to browser's search field ... I always use the later and are mostly happy with search results. I've given up hope to find decent search engine on the page already quite some time ago.
I also use Firefox, with dedicated search box. I take your point, thanks.
 
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anav
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Re: Forum exact search

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:52 pm

Having thick skin and being able to laugh at yourself are two valuable attributes in the life toolbox.
It time to shave your wool, after five years not being shave, and you will much lighter and fit for the summer.

Anyone wanting the whool, to knit a vest?
msatter, lovely idea!! To be naked again! For real, the beard is itchy and the hair far too long ---> the visible signs of covid life.
The forum for search engines can be found below, this is MT device help, being anal about config is expected, otherwise suggest one should not be skipping their meds.
http://www.searchengineforums.com/
https://www.searchenginejournal.com/omg ... ards/5626/
https://forums.digitalpoint.com/forums/ ... ngines.26/
 
miro
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Re: Forum exact search

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:04 pm

Wouldn't be more simpler to put new topic on specific problem if a few minutes of searching through forum doesn't find solution to problem.
Nobody will yell at you, if you have some newbie problem,and make a topic about it, to which solution was explained in some post from a few years ago...

Mikrotik documentation, help and features, was built with help of community.
And imho it's still valid, for most of us Mikrotik users: we are not just customers, we are community...
 
jKaufmann
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Re: Forum exact search

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:47 am

Wouldn't be more simpler to put new topic on specific problem if a few minutes of searching through forum doesn't find solution to problem.
Nobody will yell at you, if you have some newbie problem,and make a topic about it, to which solution was explained in some post from a few years ago...
I appreciate your attitude, but don't care a whit about being yelled at. I've done enough dumb things that I don't worry about the next one, which may come at any moment.
That said ..., however dumb I might be, I don't like to indulge it, because that abuses people's time. That I worry about. Like normis, I appreciate Eric Raymond (esr), who put it this way:
Before asking a technical question ... do the following:
1. Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum or mailing list you plan to post to.
because:
We take time out of busy lives to answer questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them.
I know what that feels like.
Mikrotik documentation, help and features, was built with help of community.
And imho it's still valid, for most of us Mikrotik users: we are not just customers, we are community...
I also appreciate that attitude, and hope eventually to make a contribution to the community.

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