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twana222
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Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:33 am

hello,
is there anybody tell me that when mikrotik going to supprot WiMax system?

Thanks,
Twana
 
doush
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:47 am

hello,
is there anybody tell me that when mikrotik going to supprot WiMax system?

Thanks,
Twana
first ask for 802.11n support then wimax..
 
techsimp
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:35 am

Personally I'd like to see it the other way around.
 
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normis
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:36 am

why? I don't see any real Wimax products or deployment, only marketing talk. 802.11n, however, is in all the laptops in my office floor.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
Tanker
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:15 am

As an aside....

We are quite well "connected" with a lot of factories in China (they manufacture all our 8 x E1 wireless links) and most of this type of equipment is manufactured there (China) - the word is that no factories are actually spinning or falling over themselves to produce and manufacture WiMAX equipment in any great quantities .... while the .11n demand is on the rapid demand increase.

Again - just my .02 cents worth.

Tanker
 
techsimp
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:22 pm

why? I don't see any real Wimax products or deployment, only marketing talk. 802.11n, however, is in all the laptops in my office floor.
Well as I said my stance is of personal interest. I would have a Wimax deployment if you guys supported the cards which operate in the unlicensed bands.
 
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normis
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:43 pm

I think it is worth to wait before investing in a technology that might be DOA
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Tanker
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:00 pm

I think it is worth to wait before investing in a technology that might be DOA

I agree

Seriously don't think it's going to "make it"...

T
 
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sever
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:46 am

normis wrote:
why? I don't see any real Wimax products or deployment, only marketing talk. 802.11n, however, is in all the laptops in my office floor.
I live and die Mikrotik. Eat Sleep and Breathe Mikrotik. I have Mikrotik flowing through my veins. Even my underwear says Mikrotik. I have spent many tens of thousands $ on MIkrotik.

However Normis, I disagree with your statement that WiMax is not out yet and will be DOA. Pull your head out of the sand...

WiMax product is on the Market. It is not DOA. It has arrived... Alvarion has been offering it since 2004. Solectek, Tranzeo, Redline, Motorola, Alvarion, all have product offering shipping as we speak. I highly doubt these companies would be involved in something that is "doomed."

http://www.solectek.com/landing-swm365.php

http://www.redlinecommunications.com/pr ... 65GHz.html

http://www.motorola.com/business/v/inde ... 06b00aRCRD

http://www.tranzeo.com/products/radios/ ... iber-Units

http://www.alvarion.com/products/BreezeMAX/

I would think with the Ubiquiti XR3 cards and the SR71 Cards Mikrotik would be all over 802.11n and WiMax both. Unfortunately to "Keep up with the Jones'" I have been forced to look at these other very expensive options.

Please Normis, and Mikrotik, You HAVE to come up with something or I'll be forced to trade in my Mikrotik Underwear. :shock: There is no doubt in my mind that where my business is today is due to the Mikrotik product and ingenuity. Surely 802.11n and WiMax cannot be that big of an obstacle for Mikrotik? One thing is for sure, all these WiMax companies would be in for a run if Mikrotik and its "genius" entered the arena.


Respectfully,

Jay R. Mankie
CTO Genesis Wireless
 
Tanker
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:02 am

It's called the "Swimming Pool Syndrome" ..... a.k.a. "Keeping up with the Jones's....."

My opinion only...........
===========

.. this is driven by the USA "Sales Guys".... why??? .. because of Alvarion, Motorola etc....

It becomes a hype - but - is it ACTUALLY doing the job???..... as in
1. COST EFFECTIVE????
2. Value Add (more than what we are used to and using at the moment????)


Take a gander at the price of a WiMAX BTS.... and start calculating the Investment Recovery Periods.

When it CAN compete with WiFi... and WHEN the DEMAND climbs through the roof.. it WILL become an "off-the-shelf" commodity... affordable and - most important - PROFITABLE to us suppliers of Bandwidth to the masses...

So.. it's simple - a matter of deciding whether you WANT to keep up with the Jones and change your working Business Model.. or .. stick to a proven, simple and profitable solution which we have and use at the moment.

It's not like it's driven by Moore's Law or anything - it's a simple matter of MONEY... the WiMAX sales guys want ot lock you in - make you BELIEVE that it's the way to go...

===============
END OF MY OPINION ........
===============

T
 
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:05 am

WiMAX cards offers a very good receive sesitivity level with about -101db ! and with a new "noise-free" 3.65GHz band and 5-7 MHz bandwidth, i think its a very serious competitor to any wifi radio available now.
In saudi arabia wimax now has been deployed in a large amount , and hundreds of customers getting in the line , there is a lot of failure stories and other successes , Mobily company deploys wimax as a mobile user with CPE looks like the access point to be used indoor with 2 ants about 7-9dbi and it achives a kind of success ...
http://up3.m5zn.com/get-9-2008-534qqiy4hgx.jpg

someone is trying to achieve higher sensitivity :D :D
http://up3.m5zn.com/get-11-2008-euz9ylpj2oi.jpg

Can mikrotik and RouterOS with a superior card like SR5 achieve higher receive sensitivity that may give wifi a shot to be compared to WiMAX ? I ment if we used 5Mhz or 2.5MHz bands for example !!
 
hgb
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:24 am

It's not like it's driven by Moore's Law or anything - it's a simple matter of MONEY... the WiMAX sales guys want ot lock you in - make you BELIEVE that it's the way to go...
yah it is some how true .. wimax creators has been blabbing since 2003 and the diferences between wifi and wimax is not that big ! higher output power 20W !! at basestation "200mW in the mobile CPE (MS)" + a new "noise-free band 3.65GHz" .. but there is a little amount of features may accomplish a little improvement in the performance like the fully schedule service instead of CSMA, adaptive modulation and the full duplex feature in WiMAX instade of the half-duplex in wifi.
 
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sever
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:42 am

It's not like it's driven by Moore's Law or anything - it's a simple matter of MONEY... the WiMAX sales guys want to lock you in - make you BELIEVE that it's the way to go...
That's how I remember 802.11b and Wi-Fi being sold in 2001.

A man named Michael Young (YDI)/karlnet/TerraBeam/Proxim was selling 802.11b Lucent/Orincoco AP1000 for $900 each. The laptop cards were an extra $110 each. A pigtail was $50 The cost to install a customer with a YDI (3com) ethernet convertor was near $900 per customer and 2.4 AMPs were around $400 each. LMR400 coax cable was $3 foot.

Then along came Mikrotik......I believe they could do the same in the WiMax field. We do need the radios with the extreme receive sensitivity that compares to WiMax product. if not the WiMax standard 802.16 itself. I also agree that WiMax is being hyped, and is way over priced. Seems like it would be a good time for Mikrotik to enter in and steal the show.

I personally am seeing local telco deploying a licensed product (802.16 protocol) that allows people to connect 4 miles away with an indoor device. They are passing them out to customers for self installs.I have talked to several of their customers. People who had called me first but I couldn't reach them with current system even though my tower is closer to them by two miles.

Pretty hard for me to tell people I am going to bolt some ugly antenna to the outside of their house and oh, by the way, there is an installation fee for that.

I have no choice but try to weigh my options in the WiMax arena.


Again, I eat, sleep, breathe Mikrotik. I have to believe Mikrotik would have a huge impact on Wimax if they decided to. Maybe it could even be re-named Mikro-Max, or possibly Max-Tik?

802.11n would be good for starts! :D


Jay
 
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:43 pm

Hi,come on everybody.

waiting for Wimax fixed in Mikrotik.
 
hgb
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:30 pm

And by the way guys, how could you find customers when EV-DO and HSDPA technologies are out there and every where ?
Really want someone to answer this question ... !
 
davenova
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:04 am

3G was launched in Ireland in 2004.

HSDPA was launched in 2006 and is now well established in Ireland with three operators (240,000 subscibers in total from a population of 4.2 million. They are now trialling (from January) the new LTE 4G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution) system from Nokia-Siemens for commercial delivery in 2010 (just over a year away).

Current 7.2Mbps 3G systems have high-latency and patchy coverage but they drop back to old EDGE network where coverage is poor or GPRS where very poor (rare). The experience is nothing like "real" broadband and while 3G has taken many of the web-and-email customers, we still get enough orders, many from people coming from 3G services.

Any further feedback people???
 
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ghmorris
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:52 am

Sure, I'll bite.

I get decent 3G coverage all the way from my home in deepest Haliburton county, home of bears and wolves, for the entire three hour drive into Toronto. Typically around 1.5Mb/600K, with around 115ms latency into Chicago. Works fine for most purposes.

3G (EVDO revA) is good enough that my team and I generally choose to work on our network using this technology. We don't have to, its just easier and faster with an 'always on' connection.

We cover 19,000 sq kilometres using our own MT wireless technology, but that is nowhere near the coverage the cellcos provide. Such is life. When LTE arrives, our conventional PtMP wireless is toast. Our dedicated PtP engineered wireless network will do just fine though, as its faster and symmetrical to boot.

Nice to see MT is pushing support for 3G cards. Hopefully there is another RouterBoard with USB ports in our future that we can plug the 3G cards into!!

George
 
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:26 am

I've been checking out this thread and I think it's time i chimed in...

We're currently using Airspan 802.16d fixed WiMAX at 3 sites, alongside our 802.11-legacy Mikrotik network. We use the 3.65ghz band in the USA, as it is currently very difficult for most WISP's to afford licensed spectrum. WiMAX is here, and it works, but it does have it's limitations.

First off, let's get rid of the common misconception of comparing WiFi to WiMAX. It's like comparing apples and oranges; yes the two are fruit, but that's where the similarities end.

All entry-level WiMAX systems currently marketed/targeted towards WISP's are built around the now defunct 802.16d (fixed/nomadic) standard, while carriers will be/are using 802.16e (fixed/nomadic/mobile) TODAY. The cost/benefit of rolling out 802.16e just isn't in line with what most WISP's want (or can afford) today.

WiMAX is an entire wireless solution, and most manufactures are currently bundling it this way. A complete, working system includes a base station, GPS sync, GPS/base station aggragator, backend NMS, and of course a mix of indoor/outdoor/mobile subscriber units.

While WiMAX compatibility is encouraged and is standards based (like WiFi)... this doesn't mean that manufacturers always adhere to it. Sometimes they'll use the standard and they'll modify it to suit their needs (think Clearwire and Navini). Others will produce WiMAX products that run in non-certified spectrum or unlicensed spectrum (think Redline, Airspan, Solectek, etc). This means that manufactures that are TRULY adhering to the 802.16e spec will NOT have to produce devices that are compatible with any of the above mentioned equipment. In addition, it is currently not in the manufacturer's best interest to support or even encourage cross platform CPE compatibility. Mikrotik/WiFi users enjoy a huge amount of compatibility amongst both CPE and base station manufacturers. This is currently not the case with WiMAX.

I really don't see any 802.16d/e mini-pci cards coming out that will work with Mikrotik-ROS. If they do, it will be a client only card and most likely won't be able to act as a base station. The mini-pci + routerboard + ROS combo is not something that I believe anyone in the WiMAX community is interested in developing. Also, WiMAX forum participants that are licensing 802.16d/e specification pay a hefty sum to get access.

And last but not least... the 802.16d/e spec is not engineered to handle interference very well at all; as all current iterations of 802.16d/e are designed for clean, licensed spectrum. Why build interference mitigation when your target market is deploying in licensed spectrum? WiMAX's higher modulation rates require a clean spectrum and will slow to a crawl with interference, making it a very very poor choice for use in a busy unlicensed spectrum.

Please don't get me wrong... I love our Mikrotik boxes, and it is a very versatile product, but I for one can't really see Mikrotik doing WiMAX... as it really doesn't fit their target market or what the vast majority of their user's need.
 
davenova
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:17 pm

I have to agree with the above post. Stop harping on about Wimax on Mikrotik. Use Mikrotik for wi-fi networks and buy Wimax gear for Wimax networks! Simple!

As the above post said, the vendors are now marketing cheaper 16d gear to WISPs.

Now, where is the .11n support???!!
 
hgb
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Re: Mikrotik & WiMax

Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:36 pm

mikrotik ROS + 11n + nStream = a new monster
;)

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