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amzandu
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VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:01 am

I have managed to BGP VPLS to work over TE tunnels that I have created between 2 test routers placed two hops apart.

My problem is that when I switch to manual VPLS or CISCO style VPLS, the TE tunnels are not being used.
When I switch to Cisco VPLS the interfaces are created but are not running.

I am not using cspf, I have static path defined. TE tunnels are running in both directions and do work with BGP VPLS

My understanding is that when the end-points of TE tunnel match those of the VPLS, the VPLS will use the TE tunnel.
I am I missing something?
 
amzandu
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:37 pm

Perhaps my first post was not very clear, so I will try to rephrase my request for assistance.

Does Cisco BGP VPLS and Static VPLS work over TE tunnels?
Assuming a pure statically routed network, with no OSPF and no LDP?

I have managed to get BGP VPLS to work in such a configuration, but no luck with the manual and cisco VPLS variants.

Appreciate your response.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:38 pm

Well, all kinds of VPLS work over TE tunnels. Actually VPLS tunnels prefer LSP established with TE over LSP established with LDP.

In your situation most likely the problem is that in order to do VPLS tunnel label exchange for Cisco BGP VPLS and static VPLS, you actually need LDP, but not for establishing LSP - just for tunnel signaling (by means of targeted LDP session). Simply enable LDP on both VPLS endpoints, but do not add any interfaces.
 
phendry
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:04 am

Well, all kinds of VPLS work over TE tunnels. Actually VPLS tunnels prefer LSP established with TE over LSP established with LDP.
So are you saying that if you have a working TE tunnel you should be able to create a VPLS tunnel over it without enabling LDP? If so, should that be as simple as creating a VPLS interface with the same "Remote Peer" address as the TE tunnels "to Address"?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:07 pm

Yes, you can establish VPLS tunnel without LDP if you have a working TE and yes, remote address should match for both VPLS and TE.
 
phendry
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:47 pm

We have multiple te tunnels that have been working for years. I've tried a few times to add VPLS on those tunnels but never seems to work. I add the VPLS with the same remote address at both ends of the te tunnel and nothing. Any chance you could share a config?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:23 am

Yes, you can establish VPLS tunnel without LDP if you have a working TE and yes, remote address should match for both VPLS and TE.
We have multiple te tunnels that have been working for years. I've tried a few times to add VPLS on those tunnels but never seems to work. I add the VPLS with the same remote address at both ends of the te tunnel and nothing. Any chance you could share a config?
No config to share MrZ? Just tried again incase I was missing something obvious but still nothing. All routers in chain running v6.32.3. TE tunnels between loopbacks happily providing connectivity between the sites so I just add a VPLS interface on both boxes with matching "vpls-id" and "remote-peer" address to match the /interface traffic-eng "to-address" with everything else defaults but interface never enters into a running state. What's your magical secret?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:09 pm

would work so far its not interoperable with CISCO implementation much and its widely speculated as intentional CISCO "flaw" to discourage consumers using and desperate attempt to reinforce BGP-centered,
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:37 pm

Another week goes by and still nothing to backup the claims that RouterOS can do this. I guess, MRZ, unlike what you have been continuously saying this isn't actually possible or is a bug in the current releases. Could you confirm which?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:57 pm

Indeed you can have VPLS tunnel working over LSP established by TE. The thing is that for "simple" VPLS tunnel you need LDP (it works in "targeted" mode, no need to add interfaces) to establish VPLS itself. If you do BGP based VPLS you can work w/o LDP.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:21 am

Indeed you can have VPLS tunnel working over LSP established by TE. The thing is that for "simple" VPLS tunnel you need LDP (it works in "targeted" mode, no need to add interfaces) to establish VPLS itself. If you do BGP based VPLS you can work w/o LDP.
Completely understand that but thought MRZ was saying you can establish VPLS over TE without the need for either LDP or BGP which is what we where hoping for.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:10 am

Unfortunately VPLS needs a way to exchange tunnel labels with remote peer. The only more simple way would be to manage labels manually - allocate label for VPLS interface on each router and enter it in remote peer manually. If there is serious enough reason why you need such a feature, we can consider implementing it.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:27 pm

TE doesn't require either LDP or BGP. Had assumed the VPLS shim would be inside the TE shim so rest of network wouldn't see or care about the VPLS shim.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:39 pm

You are correct - the rest of network wont see or care about VPLS, but tunnel endpoints need to exchange labels, so that each knows what label other uses for particular tunnel, so if you use LDP for VPLS signalling, LDP must be enabled only on endpoints not on all routers in path.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:42 pm

So would you just enable LDP on the TE interface?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:23 am

No, you just enable LDP, without interfaces. Adding LDP interfaces means that router will start sending multicast hellos on that interface. VPLS uses targeted LDP - it sends hellos to specific IP address.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:49 pm

Does the neighbour address have to be the same as the TE tunnels remote address or can it be a loopback that is routed over the TE interface?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:27 pm

VPLS uses LSP to remote address. It can either be matching TE tunnel (with same address) or LSP established by LDP - gateway from most specific route to remote address has advertised label. So the answer to your question is - yes, remote address of VPLS must match that of TE tunnel for VPLS to use this tunnel.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:01 am

if you use LDP for VPLS signalling, LDP must be enabled only on endpoints not on all routers in path.
remote address of VPLS must match that of TE tunnel for VPLS to use this tunnel.
That doesn't seem to make sense. If LDP is used for the VPLS signalling only on the end points and the LSP to the TE tunnels remote address traverses routers that are not running LDP then how will the VPLS signalling traverse the routers inbetween?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:40 pm

LDP uses UDP as its transport. There are 2 modes for LDP - regular, where LDP speaker sends multicast hellos on its interfaces and establishes sessions with directly attached neighbors, and targeted LDP - where LDP speaker sends hellos to specific IP address and establishes session with LDP speaker anywhere on internet, as long as there is IP connectivity with remote peer.

Static VPLS tunnel automatically establishes targeted LDP session with remote peer and exchanges labels for VPLS tunnel (inner label). Next, to actually be able to forward data over tunnel, router must have LSP to remote peer (outer label). It looks for LSP at first in established TE tunnels and if there is no TE tunnel looks up LSP established by LDP (which is not there if you do not run "regular" LDP).
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:06 pm

Assuming the TE tunnel is established between loopback addresses, do both end points have to also have an LSP to the LDP transport address (assuming this is the outgoing interface IP instead of the loopback)?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:27 pm

No, this is not necessary, endpoints will happily use TCP/UDP over regular IP for LDP session.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:45 pm

Interesting. I had assumed LDP would run through the TE tunnel. What about for VPLS tunnels established for the router after the TE end point router? With LDP being external to the TE tunnel would that mean all routers between the TE end points would need to have a route to the transport address of these devices?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:37 pm

Well, targeted LDP will use whatever transport to remote peer is available - routed or LSP. For VPLS to use TE, VPLS endpoint address must match that of TE endpoint. For targeted LDP to also use TE tunnel you would need VPLS endpoint address to which targeted LDP session will be established be routed over same TE tunnel. So TE endpoint address must be routed over TE tunnel itself. This is somewhat unlikely in real life I think, but I think it is possible theoretically if you specify at least partial path of TE tunnel, so that router does not need to have route to remote endpoint of TE, just to the next hop.

Normally you will have routes to remote endpoint of TE tunnel along the path and the same routes will be used by targeted LDP for VPLS.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:10 pm

So TE endpoint address must be routed over TE tunnel itself.
If the route to the TE endpoint is via the TE tunnel then surely the TE will would never be established as the route to the TE endpoint would be unreachable?
Normally you will have routes to remote endpoint of TE tunnel along the path and the same routes will be used by targeted LDP for VPLS.
So assuming the core network consists of core routers with TE tunnels and an edge network of edge routers with VPLS tunnels are you saying the whole core network has to contain edge network routes?
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:35 pm

If the route to the TE endpoint is via the TE tunnel then surely the TE will would never be established as the route to the TE endpoint would be unreachable?
Not necessarily - like I said, if you use at least partially specified path for TE tunnel, any router in path does not need to have route to other end - it just needs route to next hop in path. Consider network of 4 routers in row: R1-R2-R3-R4, where R1 and R4 are endpoints of TE tunnel. Normally, R1, R2 and R3 would need route to R4 to establish TE tunnel, but if on R1 you specify tunnel path as R2,R3, R1 only needs route to R2, R2 to R3 and R3 to R4. If you specify path partially as just R2, then R1 needs route to R2, but R2 and R3 need routes to R4.
So assuming the core network consists of core routers with TE tunnels and an edge network of edge routers with VPLS tunnels are you saying the whole core network has to contain edge network routes?
My previous replies apply to the case when VPLS endpoint and TE endpoint is the same router. If both tunnels are not terminated on the same router, setup gets more complicated (unnecessarily perhaps). You will still need complete LSP from one endpoint of VPLS tunnel to another (from "edge" to "edge" - established by either TE or LDP), even if this LSP will traverse "core" TE tunnel, so you will have VPLS-over-TE-over-TE in your core network. If you have some specific setup in mind please describe it so we can discuss it in particular.
 
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Re: VPLS NOT USING TE TUNNELS

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:36 pm

If the route to the TE endpoint is via the TE tunnel then surely the TE will would never be established as the route to the TE endpoint would be unreachable?
Not necessarily - like I said, if you use at least partially specified path for TE tunnel, any router in path does not need to have route to other end - it just needs route to next hop in path. Consider network of 4 routers in row: R1-R2-R3-R4, where R1 and R4 are endpoints of TE tunnel. Normally, R1, R2 and R3 would need route to R4 to establish TE tunnel, but if on R1 you specify tunnel path as R2,R3, R1 only needs route to R2, R2 to R3 and R3 to R4. If you specify path partially as just R2, then R1 needs route to R2, but R2 and R3 need routes to R4.

Interesting. So in theory you could create a tunnel path on R1 with a loose hop address of the inbound connected interface of R2, R3 and R4 then static route to R4 loopback over the TE?
So assuming the core network consists of core routers with TE tunnels and an edge network of edge routers with VPLS tunnels are you saying the whole core network has to contain edge network routes?
My previous replies apply to the case when VPLS endpoint and TE endpoint is the same router. If both tunnels are not terminated on the same router, setup gets more complicated (unnecessarily perhaps). You will still need complete LSP from one endpoint of VPLS tunnel to another (from "edge" to "edge" - established by either TE or LDP), even if this LSP will traverse "core" TE tunnel, so you will have VPLS-over-TE-over-TE in your core network. If you have some specific setup in mind please describe it so we can discuss it in particular.
Just thinking out loud really but assume the above R1, R2, R3 and R4 with TE between R1 and R4. Now assume multiple CPE connected to R4 who want to establish VPLS to R1.

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