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Sanity
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Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:42 pm

Just trying to set up a PPTP / NAT server in Hyper-V - and no, hardware is NOT an option (would cost me 400 USD monthly hosting costs, plus additional for network ports).

I can see the ARP info for the IP addresses on the mikrotik on the hyper-v "server" (via "arp -a"), so obviously the ip addresses are "somehow visible", at least the mikrotik is sending ARP packets.

But I am totally unable to get any pink, network traffic, use winbox etc.

Network cards are legacy, which would be VERY - ah - unpowerfull but also primitive (ne2000, i think) so they should work...?

Server is a Windows Server 2012 Release Candidate... We use already 2 installs and have no problems with other OS, but those have enlightment components.

So, the question - does it make sense to go on, or should I just wipe and install something else? ;) That thing just needs some basic routing + pptp VPN into our main network anyway...

So far I was under the impression Hyper-V would work with legacy adapters?
 
ayufan
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:15 am

Just install some linux box with KVM. You can try Proxmox VE - really amazing virtualization environment. Then you can freely install RouterOS and Windows box. RouterOS already has support for VirtIO drivers. Performance on top of such setup is amazing :)
hAP AC, TP-Link Archer C7 v2, RB951G, RB450G, RPI2, RPI zero
 
Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:50 am

Just install some linux box with KVM. You can try Proxmox VE - really amazing virtualization environment. Then you can freely install RouterOS and Windows box. RouterOS already has support for VirtIO drivers. Performance on top of such setup is amazing :)
Besides not being an answer - but totally useless - will you pay me the about 550 USD MONTHLY that it costs me to rent a second machine (100 USD), the colocation (400 USD) and the backend swtiching (50 USD) that I need to install a second machine in that particular data center? Like "Put your money where your mouth is"?

I have ONE machine there right now, it runs and HAS to run Hyper-V and the price for a second one is exactly that. PLus, sorry, the statement is idiotic - and that is the nice way to say it. If I could put in special hardware I could just ship an 1100AH there and would not need to deal with an x86 based setup.

This was a very simple technical question, not an invitation for off topic rants.
 
ayufan
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:59 am

Besides not being an answer - but totally useless - will you pay me the about 550 USD MONTHLY that it costs me to rent a second machine (100 USD), the colocation (400 USD) and the backend swtiching (50 USD) that I need to install a second machine in that particular data center? Like "Put your money where your mouth is"?
Then think before choosing hypervisor. For me Hyper-V is pice of shit. I were using it for over 2 years on several boxes and no more. First I had to many lockups with staging drivers. Then RouterOS couldn't process more than 30Mbps on emulated NIC.

Secondly I had similar problems to yours when using 5.x. So if you can change do it. My current Linux based Virtualization Environment has much better resource usage than were on Hyper-V.
hAP AC, TP-Link Archer C7 v2, RB951G, RB450G, RPI2, RPI zero
 
Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:17 pm

Besides not being an answer - but totally useless - will you pay me the about 550 USD MONTHLY that it costs me to rent a second machine (100 USD), the colocation (400 USD) and the backend swtiching (50 USD) that I need to install a second machine in that particular data center? Like "Put your money where your mouth is"?
Then think before choosing hypervisor. For me Hyper-V is pice of **it. I were using it for over 2 years on several boxes and no more. First I had to many lockups with staging drivers. Then RouterOS couldn't process more than 30Mbps on emulated NIC.

Secondly I had similar problems to yours when using 5.x. So if you can change do it. My current Linux based Virtualization Environment has much better resource usage than were on Hyper-V.
Sorry, NOW I call you idiot. We have no quarrels with Hyper-V and I will not switch out my platform just for one little router. Sopt abusing a perfectly fine thread about whether or not Hyper-V non virtual network cards are now totally broken with your religious rant about KVM being better any maybe kill some more penguins? I run a significant Hyper-V environment and awe have zero problems.

So far we have put nice Mikrotik boxes everywhere, it is just that this particular setup is special, as well as the fact that we will not use the RouterOS there as main router (or: the backend side goes to a datacenter provided internal network, so this install does nothing else than some outgoing NAT for maintenance and VPN access for maintenance). I am perfrectly fine with a basic Hyper-V access. If there is no way to get it working, I just put up a windows instance as router with the RRAS role and be happy with it. I just would prefer to use only one technology, without having relidious nuts (i.e. you) telling me my choice - which runs my company just fine, thank you, and makes all we want for a lower cost than maintaining Linux which means a complete separate skillset for the administrators, which means a second administrative team - is crap just because they follow some stupid bible. Blow up a building if you want a Jihad, bu stay away from my threads where I ask valid technical questions.
 
timberwolf
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:19 pm

Sanity
Well first of all stop insulting people who try to help; the only one acting religious here is you.
From my point of view you have two options:
1.) Stop using prerelease version of microsoft operating systems for production use. Then maybe one might be willing and able to help you. I assume production use, because noone would run a testing system at a colocation.
2.) Use another hypervisor, which is better suited for running Linux based operating systems like MikroTik RouterOS. And I am not talking about Linux with KVM.
 
Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:59 pm

Sanity
Well first of all stop insulting people who try to help; the only one acting religious here is you.
From my point of view you have two options:
1.) Stop using prerelease version of microsoft operating systems for production use. Then maybe one might be willing and able to help you. I assume production use, because noone would run a testing system at a colocation.
2.) Use another hypervisor, which is better suited for running Linux based operating systems like MikroTik RouterOS. And I am not talking about Linux with KVM.
Well, why should I do 1? Do not get me wrong, you are right - but this system RIGHT NOW FOR THE NEXT 2 MONTHS - is our trial testbed. So, this is not "production" use, it is "preparing for production", or "validation". Now, you say "noone would run a testing system at a colocation". Let's just say this is not a normal colocation. We currently use colocation in europe and plan to move the controlling systems closer to our customer site for data handling. This is the reason we run that in colocation, and take time to validate every step.

Now you tell me it is not valid to test RouterOS on a new coming Hyper-Visor generation? THAT Is a new one, seriously. In my eyes NOW is the time to nail that down and see who is at fault here - so that possibly a ticket can be opened with Microsoft.

Contrary to some people we take time here with critical systems.

Alternatively I am going to use Windows as router here. Our requirements here are simple enough that we can do with RRAS. Alternatively I could set something up with CentOS (which is fully supported), but then the price is too high to pay (admin team, we need 24/6 coverage for this part of the system) - the beauty of RouterOS is that RouterOS is "not Linux" but an appliance, so there is no operating system level knowledge needed and we already have RouterOS everywhere.

I seriously wish I could jsut plug a 450G in there, but we pay a LOT more than normal colocation costs there.
 
timberwolf
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:06 pm

Now you tell me it is not valid to test RouterOS on a new coming Hyper-Visor generation? THAT Is a new one, seriously. In my eyes NOW is the time to nail that down and see who is at fault here - so that possibly a ticket can be opened with Microsoft.
You assume that MikroTik tests against this new version, which could be wrong. If you wan't official support and statements on this point, then you could open a ticket. However when asking for "support" in this forum, you have to accept the fact that most people here won't run RouterOS on Hyper-V and when they do they will most likely not do this on prerelease versions.

Also you completely ignore the fact, that there are much better Hypervisors available, when you run linux based systems(or windows). The only interesting point about Hyper-V are the licensing costs. Would you be more into the virtualisation business like me or other people here on this forum, then you would know that.

Oh and I don't care about this:
...CentOS (which is fully supported)...
Because you can't compare CentOS/Redhat to RouterOS as it is an closed appliance as you said yourself.
 
Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Now you tell me it is not valid to test RouterOS on a new coming Hyper-Visor generation? THAT Is a new one, seriously. In my eyes NOW is the time to nail that down and see who is at fault here - so that possibly a ticket can be opened with Microsoft.
You assume that MikroTik tests against this new version, which could be wrong. If you wan't official support and statements on this point, then you could open a ticket. However when asking for "support" in this forum, you have to accept the fact that most people here won't run RouterOS on Hyper-V and when they do they will most likely not do this on prerelease versions.

Also you completely ignore the fact, that there are much better Hypervisors available, when you run linux based systems(or windows). The only interesting point about Hyper-V are the licensing costs. Would you be more into the virtualisation business like me or other people here on this forum, then you would know that.

Oh and I don't care about this:
...CentOS (which is fully supported)...
Because you can't compare CentOS/Redhat to RouterOS as it is an closed appliance as you said yourself.
Actually I assume yes, MIkrotik should IF they test test against new versions now, too. See, thep roblem is: this is the release candidate. When do you find out oyou have a problem - once the shit hits the fan (i.e. the release is out?). Sounds like a really piss the customer off attitude - IF this does not work under Hyper-V R3,. which is valid, it should be known that this is not working and totally unsupported the moment the release is out, not when customers get problems. ;) On top it SEEMS the problem also appears on Hyper-V v2 now (i.e. in the released version) as can be seen by another post in this forum as well as at leat one post on stackoverflow, if you care to read it, not rant.

I run all my infrastructure in Hyper-V with the exception of 2 very specific machiens with extreme timing requirements, down to sub-millisecond time reporting and 1 machien here that alrady tests v3 (with zero problems so far) and this machine in the USA that we plan to put on v3 for obvious performance reasons. It may well be we have to put another physical machine in this data center for exactly the timing reasons, but that wont help on the router side.

Anyone else I know stays away from KVM as considering it immature (whether right or not) and either uses Hyper-V or... VmWare (which is about 95% of the vm's i see). But then, my experience is mostly with companies running their own fully redundant data centers for internal use only.
 
timberwolf
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:32 pm

Actually I assume yes, MIkrotik should IF they test test against new versions now, too. See, thep roblem is: this is the release candidate. When do you find out oyou have a problem - once the **it hits the fan (i.e. the release is out?). Sounds like a really piss the customer off attitude - IF this does not work under Hyper-V R3,. which is valid, it should be known that this is not working and totally unsupported the moment the release is out, not when customers get problems. ;) On top it SEEMS the problem also appears on Hyper-V v2 now (i.e. in the released version) as can be seen by another post in this forum as well as at leat one post on stackoverflow, if you care to read it, not rant.
All I get out of the posts from MT employes here at this forum is, that they don't support and don't intend to support Hyper-V. So I think it is a safe assumption that MT doesn't test against Hyper-V at all. Don't you think?
Anyone else I know stays away from KVM as considering it immature (whether right or not) and either uses Hyper-V or... VmWare (which is about 95% of the vm's i see). But then, my experience is mostly with companies running their own fully redundant data centers for internal use only.
I am not a KVM fan too, althought there are appliance like versions of KVM-based systems AFAIK. I don't get your point about running VMware only for internal use? If you don't intend to run a HA cluster you may even get away with there free license. Plus you are even able to run (KVM based) virtual RouterOS instances inside your RouterOS VM, should the need arise and you are willing to experiment a little and posses the required hardware (i.e. EPT capable CPU). I have run RouterOS on VMware including a virtualized instance inside the VM for testing purposes without any issues. The VMware E1000 emulation works stable and performant, no need for special drivers, although there might even be support for them.
 
pospanko
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Maybe you could wait for new MT beta3 which would have new linux kernel with Hyper-V support integrated inside, so you could use normal network adapters instead of legacy ones and everything should work out-of-the-box...
I really hope that this will work because I also need Hyper-V support for MT,,,
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Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:11 pm

Maybe you could wait for new MT beta3 which would have new linux kernel with Hyper-V support integrated inside, so you could use normal network adapters instead of legacy ones and everything should work out-of-the-box...
I hate to tell you.

I contacted support, got my hands on an early 6.0 beta3.

;) Can not install - does not even go through the installer routine, hangs when the ISO starts.

I really COULD wait actually. I personally would pay some hundred USD for a Hyper-V license - seriously. This likely is a decent market (lot less out than for VmWare).

But it looks bleak now - with 6.0 not even booting.
 
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:08 pm

looking into the issue, why ISO appear not to boot.
 
Sanity
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:23 pm

Thanks. As I said - it should at least work with the non-integrated hardware levels, anything else points to an issue somewhere. After all, if Hyper-V emulates an IDE drive, for example, either their emulation has an error, or the driver on your end. Performance is another thing, bit as long as the generic simulated hardware has a driver, any issue is - a possible blowup ;)

I still hope to be able to soon buy a license to use on a Hyper-V installation for my VPN needs into a processing cluster. Performance is quite secondary - not totally, but quite.
 
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AnRkey
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Re: Hyper-V now totally broken?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:31 am

Sanity, why so harsh with ayufan? He was only making a suggestion not a demand. I detected no sarcasm or rudeness in his response.

Here is some background on the issue with Hyper-V > http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=47191

I'm switching to PVE too because it does more for me than Hyper-V does. The support is good for PVE, KVM, RouterOS and Windows so what's the issue?

I had to swallow this pill too, but now that I have, it's awesome. I'm getting 750Mbit throughput on KVM'ed routers.

Look: Your current method is beta, buggy, poorly supported and by the sounds of things poorly planned.

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