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ViREnG
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❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:15 pm

Hi friends ;)
I'm now using a CCR1036 for my centralized PPPoE Service and using EoIP and static routes for all of my networks .
EoIP have a performance issue and always have problem with frame size .

Because of this I must convert my network from EoIP/StaticRoute to MPLS/VPLS/OSPF .
Diagram2.png
The most important things is this two :
1. What's the best way for OSPF routing and IP address assigning for R1 to Rx (for example if the routes are in range of 172.16.1.0/24 + )
2. If the central PPPoE server router join the OSPF network , because of each pppoe session make a dynamic route then all of this routes will spread over the network .

if is possible make me a simple configuration for my network .
Thanks

EDIT :
My loop-back address range is must be 172.16.255.0/24 .
All of my point to point links between routers have /30 and /29 block size from 172.16.0.0/24 and 172.16.1.0/24 , this two is my network . (/29 for wireless links & /30 for direct Ethernet)
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Last edited by ViREnG on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:40 pm

Please include more specific details (loopback IPs, point to point IPs, what IPs the PPPoE customers will receive, etc.)
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:37 pm

If you're using VPLS to replace EoIP, then your IP assignment / routing at the concentrator will not change. You're just using VPLS to carry the PPPoE frames instead of EoIP.

The main thing to consider in this case is that your network nodes all need to have /32 loopback IPs injected into OSPF, and your VPLS sessions should be built to/from these addresses as the endpoints, and finally, these loopback IPs should be visible everywhere - i.e. don't let them be aggregated into area ranges / summary prefixes.

In fact, the IP scheme of your transport network will not even come into play as far as your customers are concerned. They'll see your concentrator as their first hop.
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:30 am

loopback address range is must be in 172.16.255.0/24 .
All of my point to point links between routers have /30 and /29 block size from 172.16.0.0/24 and 172.16.1.0/24 , this two is my network . (/29 for wireless links & /30 for direct Ethernet)

The important thing that is I don't know how can I include just my network range to trough OSPF and not any other like PPPoE sessions from routing over OSFP .(I don't see a example of this .)
I'm using the local IP of PPPoE profiles with 1.1.1.1 and the remote is public IP pool (146.146.46.0/22 , 155.155.55.0/24 , 179.179.79.0/22 and ... )
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:05 am

loopback address range is must be in 172.16.255.0/24 .
All of my point to point links between routers have /30 and /29 block size from 172.16.0.0/24 and 172.16.1.0/24 , this two is my network . (/29 for wireless links & /30 for direct Ethernet)

The important thing that is I don't know how can I include just my network range to trough OSPF and not any other like PPPoE sessions from routing over OSFP .(I don't see a example of this .)
I'm using the local IP of PPPoE profiles with 1.1.1.1 and the remote is public IP pool (146.146.46.0/22 , 155.155.55.0/24 , 179.179.79.0/22 and ... )
OK, here is what I would recommend:

On your routers:

/routing ospf interface
add network-type=broadcast passive=yes
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=somesecretkey interface=someptpinterface network-type=broadcast
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=somesecretkey interface=someotherptpinterface network-type=broadcast
/routing ospf network
add area=backbone comment="Loopback IP" network=someloopbackip
add area=backbone comment="Point to Point connection to Router X" network=someptpsubnet/30
add area=backbone comment="Point to Point connection to Router Y" network=someptpsubnet/30

On your core PPPoE router, the same thing, but also, do this for advertising your PPPoE customer subnet:

/routing ospf area add area-id=0.0.0.1 name=pppoe-area type=stub
/routing ospf network add area=pppoe-area network=somepppoecustomersubnet/23
/routing ospf area range add area=pppoe-area range=somepppoecustomersubnet/23 cost=default advertise=yes

On the other routers they will only get this 'area range' route rather than all the individual routes. The individual routes will only appear on your concentrator.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:23 am

Thank you @mducharme .
PPPoE clients are internet users and they just use outbound of core router wan internet .

1. With this type of PPPoE Users , do I need to add ospf area range too ?
2. I must add all of my /30 networks each by each or can I add a /24 of all ? (network of point to point between routers)
3. after prepare the OSPF I must remove my static routes ?
Last edited by ViREnG on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:29 am

Best to add all /30's individually rather than a /24 for all. You could do the /24 for all but it is the 'lazy way'.

The area range prevents advertising to the OSPF Backbone the individual customer IPs. Even if you are doing masquerade, your customers will have individual private IP addresses, you need to summarize this pool with an area range, then the other routers will get the area range instead of individual routes for each PPPoE customer.

More detail below:
/routing ospf interface
add network-type=broadcast passive=yes
Sets default interface type to passive, so that you do not send hello packets to customers, important for security! The only interfaces that should not be passive are interfaces where you want to form neighbor relationships with other routers.
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=somesecretkey interface=someptpinterface network-type=broadcast
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=somesecretkey interface=someotherptpinterface network-type=broadcast
This 'overrides' the passive default for these two PtP interfaces connecting to your router, so that you can form neighbor with other routers over ptp interfaces, plus also adds security, so that a hacker cannot unplug your router and plug in their own and get an OSPF neighbor relationship forming, if they do not have the ospf auth key
/routing ospf network
add area=backbone comment="Loopback IP" network=someloopbackip
add area=backbone comment="Point to Point connection to Router X" network=someptpsubnet/30
add area=backbone comment="Point to Point connection to Router Y" network=someptpsubnet/30
Those advertise the loopbacks and ptp subnets
On your core PPPoE router, the same thing, but also, do this for advertising your PPPoE customer subnet:

/routing ospf area add area-id=0.0.0.1 name=pppoe-area type=stub
That creates a second OSPF area for your PPPoE customers only
/routing ospf network add area=pppoe-area network=somepppoecustomersubnet/23
That advertises the PPPoE customer IPs, which would normally create a route for every PPPoE customer, EXCEPT then you add the following below:
/routing ospf area range add area=pppoe-area range=somepppoecustomersubnet/23 cost=default advertise=yes
That does the magic - the PPPoE area is summarized to the backbone as a single route rather than one per customer IP. You still get hundreds of OSPF routes but only on your core router itself, the other routers just get the area range.
Last edited by mducharme on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:33 am

Yes after all that is working, you can safely remove your static routes, except the default route you should keep as a static route.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:40 am

Loopback network must be my /24 class in my situation ? or /32 of routerid ?
add area=backbone comment="Loopback IP" network=someloopbackip
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:42 am

Loopback network must be my /24 class in my situation ?
add area=backbone comment="Loopback IP" network=someloopbackip
No, the individual /32 for that router. On each router you have to individually advertise the loopback IP. Best to set that loopback IP as the OSPF router ID as well.

EDIT: The /24 would work too but it is the 'lazy way', again better to advertise the individual route on each device rather than risk advertising something extra that you did not intend.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:47 pm

@ mducharme , one thing will remain about the security .
when we specify the OSPF interfaces with a security , always a dynamic passive interface with loopback interface will remain as none security ,
Is this make the OSPF insecure ?
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:49 pm

Mducharme's answers are spot-on, but I'd like to add one detail that I haven't seen addresses in this discussion.

If you don't define a network in OSPF on the core router which covers any of the local/net addresses of your PPPoE sessions, then none of those interfaces will be activated with OSPF, and therefore none of them will be advertised as links in OSPF (interior routes). If you're still seeing them in OSPF, that means you have redistribute static / redistribute connected active on that router. This is a very common beginner's habit to just turn those on and dump everything into OSPF that way. It's a bad habit to get into and it's not easily understood just why it's bad.

In general, I'd recommend as best practices that you never use redistribute connected unless it's just unavoidable for some reason (I can't imagine many such scenarios), and don't redistribute static routes except at the very edge of your OSPF domain - on access routers mostly - and in those routers, use a filter that allows you to explicitly label routes for redistribution or not.

In ROS, this would mean using the ospf-out filter. In Cisco, I like to use tags to flag routes that I want redistributed into OSPF. If I'm running a process OSPF 100, then I have a route-map which matches static routes with tag 100 so only those tagged routes get injected into OSPF 100.

In conclusion - if your core router has no redistribute connected, and no redistribute static, then you should have no trouble keeping the PPPoE sessions out of OSPF. In fact, when using MPLS, it's even more important that your OSPF follow best practices and use native OSPF routes as much as possible vs. using a lot of redistributed E1 / E2 routes.
@ mducharme , one thing will remain about the security .
when we specify the OSPF interfaces with a security , always a dynamic passive interface with loopback interface will remain as none security ,
Is this make the OSPF insecure ?
No. OSPF only forms adjacencies with directly-connected neighbors, and you do not have anything attached to a loopback interface, so no adjacencies can form there. Passive just means that the router doesn't send hellos or listen to them. Since there is nothing else on a loopback bridge, there's no way for any adjacency to form anyway, so there's no danger in it being active. (unless you bridge that loop interface to something, but you shouldn't do that anyway)
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:32 pm

I agree, generally avoid 'redistribute connected' or 'redistribute static' unless needed on a router. Better to advertise as a regular LSA by listing it in 'networks' instead of an external LSA. You should list all individual subnets you want to advertise in OSPF in 'networks' rather than doing it via redistribution. By making 'passive' the default you can advertise these in 'networks' as regular LSAs without opening up potential security issues.

There is no security issue having passive interfaces without an authentication key. An authentication key should be used to add security on non-passive interfaces. Passive interfaces are already inherently secure due to the fact that an OSPF neighbor / adjacency cannot form on such an interface, and have no need for this security feature.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:52 pm

1. If I understand correctly , when using redistribute connected & redistribute static as "no" , then no need to specify the PPPoE pool as network stub at CoreRouter ? and this make no any different of security from adding it or not . ?

2. The last thing about the individually subnets in OSPF networks , If we comeback to the first diagram , all of routers in the path between R1 to R11 must have their /30 subnets in their OSPF networks list . but the question is the routers is not in the path need it too ? (for example : R4 need subnet of R10 to R11 too)
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:04 pm

1. If I understand correctly , when using redistribute connected & redistribute static as "no" , then no need to specify the PPPoE pool as network stub at CoreRouter ? and this make no any different of security from adding it or not . ?
In your case this is correct, since your PPPoE concentrator is also the only core router. If you ever split these functions, as is more common, you would have to set up the stub area.
2. The last thing about the individually subnets in OSPF networks , If we comeback to the first diagram , all of routers in the path between R1 to R11 must have their /30 subnets in their OSPF networks list . but the question is the routers is not in the path need it too ? (for example : R4 need subnet of R10 to R11 too)
You only add to 'networks' the locally connected networks to that router that should be advertised. The router needs to have an IP on that subnet as well in order for the network to actually get advertised. There is no need to add networks not locally on that router, since it will not have any effect if the router doesn't have an IP on that network.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:17 pm

1. If I understand correctly , when using redistribute connected & redistribute static as "no" , then no need to specify the PPPoE pool as network stub at CoreRouter ? and this make no any different of security from adding it or not . ?
Missed the last part - it makes no difference in security b/c by making the interfaces default to 'passive', if you advertise it, your PPPoE interfaces will appear as passive interfaces in OSPF (on the core router only) and your customers will not receive hello packets and will not be able to establish OSPF adjacency, so there is no security issue. If your config was missing the line to make the default interface type passive, there would be a potential security issue.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:32 pm

1. Double check about the networks :) , if the example subnets like below :
R1 to R2 --> 172.16.1.0/30
R2 to R3 --> 172.16.1.4/30
R3 to R4 --> 172.16.1.8/30
then OSPF networks except the loopback IP , will be :
in R1
network=172.16.1.0/30
in R2
network=172.16.1.0/30
network=172.16.1.4/30
in R3
network=172.16.1.4/30
network=172.16.1.8/30
Is it correct ?

2. Authentication on all of OSPF network must be same or just the direct connected interfaces ?

3. Is there any performance issue on enabling the security of OSPF interfaces ?
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:48 pm

1. Double check about the networks :) , if the example subnets like below :
Is it correct ?
Yes, I believe so
2. Authentication on all of OSPF network must be same or just the direct connected interfaces ?
Each /30 can use its own password if you like. We use the same password for all. You only need auth on interfaces that connect to other OSPF routers (non-passive) where you want to form adjacency.
3. Is there any performance issue on enabling the security of OSPF interfaces ?
No
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:48 am

At this example , what's the best MTU settings when I don't using VLAN ?
When just using MPLS / VPLS tunnels for extend PPPoE servers and want a 1500 L3 MTU for PPPoE Clients.

Do I need to change L2MTU of ethernet interfaces ?
Whats the best MTU of PPPoE servers ?
Whats the best MTU of MPLS interface ?
Do I need to change MTU of VPLS tunnels ?
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:16 am

At this example , what's the best MTU settings when I don't using VLAN ?
When just using MPLS / VPLS tunnels for extend PPPoE servers and want a 1500 L3 MTU for PPPoE Clients.

Do I need to change L2MTU of ethernet interfaces ?
Not usually, the default is normally 1598 or 1600 or around there, and that is more than enough. As long as it is above your MPLS MTU with room for a VLAN tag on top possibly, that should be enough.
Whats the best MTU of PPPoE servers ?
Set MTU and MRU to 1500 for PPPoE server, that will enable RFC4638 support as long as the PPPoE client is set for 1500 MTU similarly and supports RFC4638.
Whats the best MTU of MPLS interface ?
We use 1550, enough for VPLS plus PPPoE overhead with room to spare
Do I need to change MTU of VPLS tunnels ?
Yes, change 'advertised L2MTU' for VPLS tunnels to 1508 so that RFC4638 will work.
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:36 pm

I got a new problem at MPLS remote bindings , now any of my routers in OSPF/MPLS network includes all of "core router" routes + PPPoE clients IP (their dynamic routes) at "remote bindings" .
1. I must to do anything about it ?
2. Is this reduce the performance of my routers ?
3. Is there anyway to disable it ?


This is one of routers in network (a example of R4 at first diagram) with ~1500 remote binding item .
MPLS_remoteBindings.png
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:06 pm

I got a new problem at MPLS remote bindings , now any of my routers in OSPF/MPLS network includes all of "core router" routes + PPPoE clients IP (their dynamic routes) at "remote bindings" .
It is probably happening due to lack of advertise filter. The advertise filter is good to set up, you can set it up so that labels are only added for packets going to/from the loopback interfaces. Without that you have MPLS labels added for any packet going to the router on any IP.

Suppose your loopbacks are all in the range 10.1.1.0/24, you would create two rules in the advertise filter tab:

10.1.1.0/24 advertise=yes
0.0.0.0/0 advertise=no

Do that on all routers as a part of the MPLS config
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:06 pm

this is what im working on it in nowadays, its very good topic for beginner like me and thanks for sharing.

something that i dont understand in here. do we need add loopback ip to ospf network or not ? which is correct way ?

like this;
/routing ospf network
add area=backbone network=10.200.200.2/32
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:50 pm

Always add loopback IPs to routers. It's a habit you should establish so that it's not even a question. You always do it.

The loopback IP is the router's IP. That's the address you put into your network monitoring systems. That's the IP you put into your winbox saved sessions list / putty sessions list / etc.
That's the IP you use for RADIUS, SNMP, etc. That's the interface that all point-to-point interface types use as the local address (tunnels, pppoe sessions, vpn local/remote IP, etc) and you use the other router's loopback IP as the destination IP - the exception to this on p2p links would be /30 links on ethernet - those are networks that require you to use interface addresses.

The interface IPs are just there because they're needed to make the various locally-attached networks.

One thing I've seen that doesn't work well in this regime (with Mikrotik) is if the router is also a central DHCP server for other routers to use in DHCP relay. The DHCP server process doesn't receive packets on the loopback interface, so that's a bit broken, but other than that, the loopback interface is the go-to interface.

Obviously if the Mikrotik is not being used as a router per-se, or if it's in a simple configuration such as a CPE device, then the loopback IP isn't necessary but all infrastructure routers should use them.
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:32 pm

Always add loopback IPs to routers. It's a habit you should establish so that it's not even a question. You always do it.

The loopback IP is the router's IP. That's the address you put into your network monitoring systems. That's the IP you put into your winbox saved sessions list / putty sessions list / etc.
That's the IP you use for RADIUS, SNMP, etc. That's the interface that all point-to-point interface types use as the local address (tunnels, pppoe sessions, vpn local/remote IP, etc) and you use the other router's loopback IP as the destination IP - the exception to this on p2p links would be /30 links on ethernet - those are networks that require you to use interface addresses.

The interface IPs are just there because they're needed to make the various locally-attached networks.

One thing I've seen that doesn't work well in this regime is if the router is also a central DHCP server for other routers to use in DHCP relay. The DHCP server process doesn't receive packets on the loopback interface, so that's a bit broken, but other than that, the loopback interface is the go-to interface.

Obviously if the Mikrotik is not being used as a router per-se, or if it's in a simple configuration such as a CPE device, then the loopback IP isn't necessary but all infrastructure routers should use them.
Thanks zerobyte. Thanks again and again for your wonderful info.. i care all your suggestion and done them. I add loop-back ip to all devices as you said and i start to use loop-back ip on radius, pppoe local ip, ospf router-id as you said.
but Im so sorry may be cause of my bad English i still don't understand why we need to add loop-back ip to ospf network segment like as here;
/routing ospf network
add area=backbone network=10.200.200.2/32
When i add loopback ip as above its came to ospf interface with dynamic and passive. İs this ok ? should i make it active ? or let it passive ?
 
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:03 am

First of all, it's necessary to put the loopback /32s into OSPF so that the interface IP will be available in your OSPF routing table's decisions.
Whenever you use the IP, say you create a GRE tunnel between two routers, the best available path to the /32 will be used. If the /32 is not available, then it will either be unreachable (if its IP is not also included in some range the router is also advertising) or else it may be reachable but not by the optimum path. I once read a best practice guide which states that you should never aggregate loopback IP addresses, especially if you're using MPLS.

As for active/passive.... In theory, it shouldn't matter whether it's active or passive since the interface doesn't actually talk to anything. I have noticed that in Cisco, where we define several of our customer-facing interfaces as "ip unnumbered loopback101" - whatever parameters Loop101 takes on, so do the unnumbered interfaces tied to it - so that could be one caveat. I haven't tested this in Mikrotik but as there's actually no such thing as "IP unnumbered" in Mikrotik, this is probably only an issue in Cisco.

I tend not to worry about the active/passive state of loop interfaces in my Cisco routers because nothing is actually connected to them. If the router is in a "default passive" type of configuration, then I won't go out of my way to make it active. Likewise, if the router's default interface type is active, I won't go out of my way to declare the loopback interface as passive.
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:41 pm

I'm reviving this discussion to get answers to a few of my queries since I'm deploying this architecture for a client now.

Is it possible to set up this network without VPLS?
Is it possible to setup individual PPPoE IP pools for each site?
What do we do if we need to forward ports for a client with a private static IP address?

Regards
 
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amt
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:14 am


In general, I'd recommend as best practices that you never use redistribute connected unless it's just unavoidable for some reason (I can't imagine many such scenarios), and don't redistribute static routes except at the very edge of your OSPF domain - on access routers mostly - and in those routers, use a filter that allows you to explicitly label routes for redistribution or not.
imagine that if have 5 pppoe server and some ip ranges assigned by radius for some reasons ( like puplic ip ) and thesee ip ranges at diffirent pppoe server by /32 what can be the solution ?
for ex 172.30.1.2/32 at pppoe server-1 and 172.30.2.2/32 at pppose server-3 and 172.30.2.3/32 at pppoe server-4

can I add static route at bgp router side like;
add distance=1 dst-address=172.38.0.0/24 gateway=10.255.254.35,10.255.254.34,10.255.254.33
and then remove redistribute connected option on all pppoe servers

thanks
 
Redmor
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:45 pm

The answer is NSSA and filters.
ImageImage
 
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amt
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:17 pm

The answer is NSSA and filters.
Thanks for your answer,

Can you give a simple example ?
 
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amt
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Re: ❓ what's the best solution for OSPF and PPPoE service

Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:24 pm

The answer is NSSA and filters.
you mean pppoe_server's should be in area with nssa and routing filter's should use for discard thesee ip's ?

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