Community discussions

MikroTik App
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

atheros AR5008X wifi n

Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:01 am

Hi.
Do somebody know when will support Mikrotik this new Atheros AR5008X with XSPAN technology?

Thanks
 
uldis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 2:55 pm

Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:14 am

we are researching this and maybe in future we will have support for this.
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:26 pm

I hope that soon - do you know when? (approximately). We will need faster wifi.

Thanks
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:49 pm

is that you only reason? use nstreme! what speeds would you expect to see?
 
Alex
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:07 am

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:39 am

Than it is better than themes more
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 am

sorry ale with nstreame is max speed etc. 35mbit?. So it is no many. We need faster. If I can use 4-10Mbit for each user, 30Mbit is slow. 8) Now ADSL is on 4mbit but after new year is possible faster ADSL 6-12Mbit! nstream isn´t saviour for all ISP.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:03 am

who said 30Mbit? that is without nstreme. close to hundred
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

I readed that nstreme have max. 30-35Mbit

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:17 am

who said 30Mbit? that is without nstreme. close to hundred
Are you sure? I readed that nstreme have max. 30-35Mbit. In my country is regulate txpower to 1W! So what is real bandwith with nstreme on PC platforms - I have PCs AMD Athlon 1800+,Pentium M platform 1400MHz or PII platforms.
Thanks
 
cmit
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Germany

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:40 am

The achievable bandwidth has nothing to do with your tx power! Tx power will only influence your max distance etc.

Best regards,
Christian Meis
Best regards,
Christian Meis
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:14 am

Of course. And the available bandwidth on links of moderate length in the real world on MT hardware is in the mid-20s for a single user connection between two points. Yes, we have made it go a bit faster for a while, particularly on shorter links, but day in, day out, 25 is around the magic number.

If I need more speed I look elsewhere. It will be nice when NT finally releases some modern hardware that moves data faster than an arthritic snail!!

George
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:27 am

maybe you should just look around the forum to see that other users have no problem achieving higher speeds. this one person with the 200KM link had 20Mbits ...
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

txpower

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:47 am

sorry but 240KM with 20Mbit - it is real with txpower full with big antennas. It is no real to use in my country. 8) My really experience is, that bandwith is between 2-30Mbit. No more, including nstreme. 100Mbit FD is no real in today wifi hardware. May be with AR5008
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:50 am

so you just don't trust us - fine! then happy 2Mbits for you.

if you would make proper configuration and antenna alignment, you would not complain like this. we have lots of links faster than you say, just search the forums. if you can't go faster, write to support and ask for help. this has nothing to do with some chipsets or txpower. txpower always must be on default, or lower.
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:58 pm

maybe you should just look around the forum to see that other users have no problem achieving higher speeds. this one person with the 200KM link had 20Mbits ...
Normis, I read the forum regularly as a cusory check of my user ID would show you. We were one of your first "big" North American early adopters starting over four years ago, and I have something like 400 pieces of MT hardware in the field now.

I would have a LOT more if you got with the program and released current hardware in a timely fashion. Either that, or start supporting manufacturers of high performance/inexpensive outdoor gear that are capable of maintaining a reasonable release schedule.

As far as optimization, when we beta'd the SR9s for you at your request, you had a standing offer to come and play on our systems. I understand engineering wasn't interested however...

We operate in one of the harshest long-haul rural RF areas in the world and the thought of a reliable single-hop 200km link is laughable. We have enough trouble keeping 80km unlicenced links stable, to the point that our busiest three out of six long-haul (80km plus) segments have had their MT gear replaced with protected licensed radios with frequency and spatial diversity. We can now maintain better than 99.9997% on these links and run at 45Mbit full duplex all the time. The ONLY unlicensed radios capable of operating properly under these condtions are Orthogon, and the price tag is so high you might as well go licensed if you have it available at a reaonsable price.

I also sleep better at nights.

You guys make great firmware when you get a release through test properly, but if you can't get your supported hardware released to match or beat your competition you become a boat anchor to your customers.

A lot of people have been dancing around this issue politely on the forum, its past time you started listening. If we do change from MT, it may well will be everything as I HATE supporting multiple platforms.

From MikroTik, I need the equivalent to a 4 radio gateworks board, and the equivalent to a Ubiquiti LS2. Six months ago would have been nice, tomorrow is just about acceptable.

If you can't get these released immediately, the courtesy of a hardware release schedule would be the next best thing. We have businesses to run and the lack of a hardware roadmap is unacceptable.

George
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:05 pm

All I can say is - hardware development takes a LOT of time and it does not depend only on us. All of the products that you want are in development, and there are prototypes. We have been making these models during all this year, new technology can't just appear out from nowhere. It has to be created.

And about distance - the distance was not the point, the point was proving that 20Mbits is not something impossible. If somebody can do that over long distances, short distances are not a problem. I just cant sit an do nothing about posts claiming that maximum RouterOS can do is 3-20Mbits which is completely not true!

By the way we have our own SR9s and they seem to be working fine, are they not?
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:45 pm

I understand completely that hardware is slow going. If you don't own the base system, as Gateworks does with Avila and Ubiquiti does with the LS2, then its even slower going. In addition, being 200th in line at the fab make life slow and difficult as you can get bumped so easily by a major player with thousands, or hundreds of thousands multiples of your volume.

The problem as a customer is that higher-tier manufacturers ARE getting product on the street. Gateworks has had their 2 port and 4 port boards out for what, well over a year now? Various flavors of OS are supported on them, none of them as good as MT in my opionion, but some are getting to the point of stable basic funtionality. In other words, good enough, particularly for PtP backhaul which is where we have the biggest problem and the least requiment for the sophisticated routing that MT brings to the table.

Our direction for public Internet is micro-APs. typically running less than 20 people on a RB112 class board. Could be 2.4, could be 900.

Where this gets tricky is combining a high capacity 42 site private network that offers up to 10Mbit connections with all these little APs, then backhauling the combined network.

We need 90Mbits (the functional equivalent of a full duplex 45Mbit DS3). Not just when everything is working perfectly, but under average conditions, like a significant noise level and the ability to sustain only 36Mbit modulation rates.

I realize this is a tall order, but even Tranzeo has just released a Full Duplex 5.x radio with some very nice filtering at a partiularly decent price.

Do I want to use Tranzeo. No, of course not. But we are getting to the point where something has to break. Customers are expecting 5 or 6Mbit burst to their houses/business premises and MT does not have the complete hardware lineup to support this sort of service delivery.

We need more than a teaser from time to time about future products. Much more information was available about previous product cycles, so do you really think its helping customer loyalty and retention to keep us so far in the dark about this round???

George
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:59 pm

is Nstreme2 not an option in your setup?
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:02 pm


And about distance - the distance was not the point, the point was proving that 20Mbits is not something impossible.
Absolutely. You can do 23-25Mbits with an overclocked 532 all day and all night over any reasonable distance. Reasonable will vary with your RF environment, for us its up to about 40kms.
If somebody can do that over long distances, short distances are not a problem. I just cant sit an do nothing about posts claiming that maximum RouterOS can do is 3-20Mbits which is completely not true!
Absolutely. The flip side of the coin is you need pretty ideal conditions to get much over 25. It can be done under perfect circumstances, just hard to get it reliable enough to use in network load calculations.
By the way we have our own SR9s and they seem to be working fine, are they not?
Generally very good. There appears to be one bug where the signal and SNR values are added together in the signal reading, or perhaps even added twice. Symptoms are a very high signal reading in a noisy environment.

Example would be predicted -75, actual reading -50, SNR of 25. We KNOW the environment is barely capable of giving us an SNR of 6, but the SR-9 is way optimistic.

Doesn't happen all the time, just sometimes. Possibly around Canopy...

George
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:08 pm

is Nstreme2 not an option in your setup?
Potentially, but the real problem is moving packets through the board. We could do this easily with PC-class hardware, but a 532 is too small to get the full throughput we need.

That sharp cutoff filter on the Tranzeo is pretty slick too, but you can buy it as a standalone item to use with Nstreme2 I guess. They call it a channel shield.

Whats getting me wound up is we are huge MT fans and do NOT want to move to something inferior even if its faster!! I really miss the MT troubleshooting tool set when I have to maintain "alien" equipment.

George
Last edited by ghmorris on Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:24 pm

we will look into that, and regarding the power - well, as a forum reader, you must have noticed the promises of a new faster board ...
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:34 pm

we will look into that, and regarding the power - well, as a forum reader, you must have noticed the promises of a new faster board ...
Sure, I've seen the promises. :D

But what I need is a hardware roadmap. We have NDAs with various people that we do high volumes with. In return, we get to see development roadmaps, both hardware and software as appropriate.

Take it for what its worth. We run a million+ dollar business largely on your product and I'm getting nervous about being able to keep up with the Jones. :wink:

George
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:40 pm

NDA does not go with FORUMS :) if you are actually buying our product in large quantities, our sales will be happy to tell you about our plans.
 
User avatar
ghmorris
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Minden, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:09 pm

Email sent to Janis. Looking forward to the reply! :wink:

Just got off the phone with an existing municipal client who wants to upgrade to 45Mbit at all locations and I'm feeling silly being unable to even hint at possible timelines.

The 230s we've had there for years have worked great, but 15Mbits is too small now for their application.

George
 
riddick
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:03 am

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:37 pm

so ok I try nstreme one´s more.
 
User avatar
[ASM]
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Contact:

Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:24 am

OK... 65-70Mbits@65km.... That is what we've done 2 years ago...

After that we've made a paralel link and we have 2x70Mbit last year...

Now we have to upgade the link to 300 Mbit

300/70= 4 links?????? And we have to recive them at a point and send them to another.... This means 8 Antennas???

We now think of changing Mikrotik with devices like Neras that give you 300 Mbit and more at only 2 antenas
The light is faster than sound. People always looks smart before they start talking.
 
Hellbound
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:21 am

Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:40 pm

so you just don't trust us - fine! then happy 2Mbits for you.

if you would make proper configuration and antenna alignment, you would not complain like this. we have lots of links faster than you say, just search the forums. if you can't go faster, write to support and ask for help. this has nothing to do with some chipsets or txpower. txpower always must be on default, or lower.
It is impossible to reach 100megabit with single nstreme, even my dual streme never went above 60mb with -65 db signal.
we need at least 400megabit within 1mile range and 11n is most necessary thing for us.

if you could have any idea when is it going to be available? now there are tons of 11n PCI card out there and even if I recall atheros has a minipci which is used in linksys ap as well.

imagine you can easily achieve gigabit wireless by combining multi wireless card in 5.8 using 11n

imagine you can use a single 11n MIMO card providing outdoor wireless with multiple link and just one single card to have backhaul and p2mp.

imagine you can have better or near true QOS with 11n

and a lot of more stuff with 11n in outdoor.
 
User avatar
tgrand
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:57 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:18 pm

11n promises alot, but so does 11b.

Anyone have a throughput of 11Mbits on 11b?
11n only stands to disrupt existing 802.11b/g equipment, and from my reading falls far short of delivering what is promised (Bigger headache fropm what I've read).

If you need gigabit speeds, then you should get out your trencher, and drop fibre.

Wireless is unrealistic for gigabit speeds.
An alternative would be to buy at auction, some private spectrum.

Public band is exactly that, PUBLIC and should not be Hogged up by the greedy.

Existing technologies (with exception to 11n), work and play well in the public band... Perhaps it should stay that way.
 
wirdo
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:50 pm

Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:11 am

usage of some frequency band for data stream is result encoding/modulating scheme that doesn't request upper or lower bands for transmition. There are existing technologies that can do several b/hz with ease and sooner or later will be implemented in our equipment. I like to use free band and to be unlicensed, oposite to you, and to carry twice, maybe more capacity than yours in frequency slice you pay for.
 
bokili
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:52 pm

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:06 am

Yes, single NSTREME is excellent choice for long range distance links as when you only care for BANDWIDTH.

But if you care for latency, there is a big problem:

When you put through real internet traffic, it can be up to 50ms and more. And when you are ISP, this can be pain in the neck.

Nsteme setup:

2 SR5 cards on each end
Link Distance: 65km
Signal is about -70
PacificWireless Grid 29dBi antennas
Lost Packets: 0%

Bandwidth Test from one point says:

send 21.3Mbit/sec
receive: 16.4Mbit/sec
both: 9/9

When you have low traffic (up to 500k/500k, latency is from 1-20ms, very erratic...

I tried Nstreme2, but I will post my experience in the new thread.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24604
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:48 am

11n promises alot, but so does 11b.

Anyone have a throughput of 11Mbits on 11b?
11n only stands to disrupt existing 802.11b/g equipment, and from my reading falls far short of delivering what is promised (Bigger headache fropm what I've read).

If you need gigabit speeds, then you should get out your trencher, and drop fibre.

Wireless is unrealistic for gigabit speeds.
An alternative would be to buy at auction, some private spectrum.

Public band is exactly that, PUBLIC and should not be Hogged up by the greedy.

Existing technologies (with exception to 11n), work and play well in the public band... Perhaps it should stay that way.
we have tested it, and so far it looks very promising.
 
User avatar
stephenpatrick
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:26 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:52 am

Wireless is unrealistic for gigabit speeds.
.. Laser (FSO) or Millimeter Wave (MMW) can do 1.25Gbps FDX ...
at a much lower cost than fibre.

Still, I'm really looking forward to see what the 802.11n can do using MT.
Keep up the good work -

Regards

CableFree Solutions
CableFree - Wireless Excellence - Microwave, E-band Radios, Free Space Optics, High performance Radios & Routers
http://www.cablefree.net

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], bsafarli, eworm, FarmerGiles, normis, olivier2831, Reinis, skylark, TipuShah and 77 guests