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normis
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LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 15, 2018 9:48 am

A customer from Hawaii has gotten his first LHG60 link up with good results. Here are some photos and test results:

1,470 Meter Link

TRAFFIC GENERATOR TEST SETUP:
LHGG60 in Bridge Mode (192.168.88.2) - - to - - LHGG60 in Station Bridge Mode (192.168.88.3)

MacBook Pro (192.168.88.10)
/tool traffic-generator packet-template
add ip-dst=192.168.88.2 ip-gateway=192.168.88.3 ip-src=192.168.88.10
name=test1 udp-dst-port=100-300
/tool traffic-generator stream
add mbps=2000 name=stream3 packet-size=1500 tx-template=test1
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Good results but in rainy days? The US version has the same power outpu of EU?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 10:37 am

Good results but in rainy days? The US version has the same power outpu of EU?
Same power output.
In other forum threads there are results from rainy days as well. Rain adds some attenuation but if link is set up correctly there shouldn't be any issues in those distances.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 1:10 pm

I read the orther thread and If i remember well the link drop during heavy rain at 1200m :-)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 1:22 pm

I read the orther thread and If i remember well the link drop during heavy rain at 1200m :-)
That link drop was due to misalignment and multiple devices squeezed close together with self made solutions.
There are clever LED alignment option added to those devices that helps to find best position. Wiki will be updated soon.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 1:31 pm

We need an XL version. Bigger antenna + better gain
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Antonsb I hope you are true ;-)

And I hope to see a version with integrated 5 Ghz backup
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 pm

I read the orther thread and If i remember well the link drop during heavy rain at 1200m :-)
That link drop was due to misalignment and multiple devices squeezed close together with self made solutions.
There are clever LED alignment option added to those devices that helps to find best position. Wiki will be updated soon.
This is much more than we see with ignitenet. What is the difference? More TX, higher gain or better sensivity? Or marketing ;-)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 6:09 pm

I read the orther thread and If i remember well the link drop during heavy rain at 1200m :-)
That link drop was due to misalignment and multiple devices squeezed close together with self made solutions.
There are clever LED alignment option added to those devices that helps to find best position. Wiki will be updated soon.
This is much more than we see with ignitenet. What is the difference? More TX, higher gain or better sensivity? Or marketing ;-)
All of mentioned + beam forming antennas :)
Results from sunny day, but at least some useful insight:
Distance Speed(tx+rx)
1100m 1.8Gbps+
1200m 1.8Gbps+
1500m 1.8Gbps+
1600m 1.8Gbps+
1700m 1.8Gbps+
1800m 1.8Gbps
1900m 800Mbps+
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 6:25 pm

Is there any chance to overcome 3000 meters?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 16, 2018 10:54 pm

we have custom made antennas on WAP and on 1km test link it has 4dBi less then LHG60 on the same link. 500m link still drops with heavy rain. 420m is rock solid.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 10:02 am

Does WAP has any kind of limitation? When I am using it on larger dsitances speed drops a lot and signal is still 80. Is there lower ACK or something?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 10:06 am

wAP60 has a specially designed and calibrated beamforming antenna with pre-configured patterns. you can't use it with custom antennas and I am surprised it works for you at all.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 10:33 am

Antonsb I hope you are true ;-)

And I hope to see a version with integrated 5 Ghz backup
+1 Can't be to diffilcult
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 10:42 am

we have custom made antennas on WAP and on 1km test link it has 4dBi less then LHG60 on the same link. 500m link still drops with heavy rain. 420m is rock solid.
Custom antennas will never work as well without proper calibration.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 5:39 pm

Sweet pics, thanks for sharing.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Antonsb I hope you are true ;-)

And I hope to see a version with integrated 5 Ghz backup
+1 Can't be to diffilcult
Seems to be already prepared in WAP60G and LHG60G. Just missing the Amplifiers and Internal Antennas.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 9:49 am

Any update in rainy days? Some print screen from wireless monitor 'll be appreciated :-)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 10:32 am

Awesome Normis !

If you could add a integrated 5 Ghz backup radio this would be amazesauce !
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 5:22 pm

where can these be bought? I dont see anyone carrying them yet...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 7:09 pm

Very nice indeed. But suppliers in Europe still can't deliver them. "Mid June" is best answer I get......
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 7:26 pm

Antonsb I hope you are true ;-)

And I hope to see a version with integrated 5 Ghz backup
And I hope they don't make the same mistake then as Ignitenet. Most of us will use 60Ghz to escape from the 5Ghz overloaded spectrum. But if the backup solution now is that it still needs to run this advantage is actually lost.
Maybe the advantage is there for the link itself, but in many cases in freeing 5Ghz on a link gives more 'spectral' space for our AP's and maybe other long distant links. If this new 60Ghz link now still has to run to maintain its capacity we haven't gained a lot in that respect.

So a 5Ghz backup should be a 'cold' backup. When 60Ghz goes down the 5Ghz radio's fire up and take over... Maybe at such specific moment we create poor conditions for other 5Ghz networks or links but this is only an emergency solution. Usually during a heavy rainstorm people are really more interested in what happens outside then what happens on the internet.....
As soon as the downpour stops the 60Ghz can take back duties and 5Ghz is shut down waiting for next event again.....
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 7:30 pm

wAP60 has a specially designed and calibrated beamforming antenna with pre-configured patterns. you can't use it with custom antennas and I am surprised it works for you at all.
OK, and how is this with LHG 60? On bigger distances 'non' beamforming 60Ghz devices are very hard to align. How is this on the 60Ghz LHG? Just eyesight aligning and 'bang' it goes?
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 8:24 pm

wAP60 has a specially designed and calibrated beamforming antenna with pre-configured patterns. you can't use it with custom antennas and I am surprised it works for you at all.
thank you for your answer... it was some kind of error... Now even at 500m with wap and custom antenna it works 1,6Gb/s so I am very happy with it. I am using old and unused jirous antennas which can be bought almost for free now. LHG60 is not on stock and never was. I am not sure if it will be legal in Czechia. I am worried about LHG in snowy weather and with jirous with radom it should be better...
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 8:34 pm

I am worried about LHG in snowy weather and with jirous with radom it should be better...
You could be right here. Somewhere on the forum a guy says the 5Ghz LHG's don't work in snow. The snow sticks to the disk and completely destroys the elips needed to reflect the radio waves. And due the design snow sticks easy and packs in the honey-grate structure and takes a long time to melt. So you might be right in that respect...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 8:36 pm

I am worried about LHG in snowy weather and with jirous with radom it should be better...
You could be right here. Somewhere on the forum a guy says the 5Ghz LHG's don't work in snow. The snow sticks to the disk and completely destroys the elips needed to reflect the radio waves. And due the design snow sticks easy and packs in the honey-grate structure and takes a long time to melt. So you might be right in that respect...
But then again, in Hawaii it never snows! But what about the heat resistance? With lava flowing in the streets this might become an issue with these plastic devices! :lol: :lol:
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 8:49 pm

Should I move to Hawai? :)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue May 22, 2018 9:05 pm

Should I move to Hawai? :)
No! Didn’t you hear about vulcanos?


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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 23, 2018 12:38 pm

wAP60 has a specially designed and calibrated beamforming antenna with pre-configured patterns. you can't use it with custom antennas and I am surprised it works for you at all.
OK, and how is this with LHG 60? On bigger distances 'non' beamforming 60Ghz devices are very hard to align. How is this on the 60Ghz LHG? Just eyesight aligning and 'bang' it goes?
LEDs show you where to move the device
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 23, 2018 6:08 pm

wAP60 has a specially designed and calibrated beamforming antenna with pre-configured patterns. you can't use it with custom antennas and I am surprised it works for you at all.
OK, and how is this with LHG 60? On bigger distances 'non' beamforming 60Ghz devices are very hard to align. How is this on the 60Ghz LHG? Just eyesight aligning and 'bang' it goes?
LEDs show you where to move the device
WHAT? "LEDS show you"?? Meaning they tell me to; "go left", or "go right"? "Go up", or "go down"?? THAT would be nice... but I doubt it. The leds probably only tell you the signal level. But that is nothing more then a rough adjustment. Fine adjustments would still be needed?
But then again, surprise me.... In some future when these LHG-60's become available I can give it a try....
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 24, 2018 11:06 am

This is a great installation to test the limit of the technology if we can have some prinstcreen and/or report about signals in rainy days to help to plan future link without selfyesting it :-)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 24, 2018 3:15 pm

WHAT? "LEDS show you"?? Meaning they tell me to; "go left", or "go right"? "Go up", or "go down"??
Exactly, depending on used beam-forming pattern LHG can tell you where to turn it. LED sticker comes with small arrows and device "blinks you to the right direction"
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 24, 2018 7:04 pm

WHAT? "LEDS show you"?? Meaning they tell me to; "go left", or "go right"? "Go up", or "go down"??
Exactly, depending on used beam-forming pattern LHG can tell you where to turn it. LED sticker comes with small arrows and device "blinks you to the right direction"
Ok, that would be nice.

But then I have one question; Is there a difference in which 'beam-forming' pattern is used? I was given the impression that with the beam forming patterns it didn't make a lot of difference anymore if the two back haul devices were precisely aligned or not....

In fact, we just fit two w60g units in a backhaul constellation where we just aligned by eye sight.
In the C.L. I see now:
/interface w60g> monitor 0
       connected: yes
       frequency: 62640
  remote-address: 30:07:4D:89:F1:BE
             mcs: 8
        phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
          signal: 65
            rssi: -66
       tx-sector: 34
  tx-sector-info: right 11.4 degrees, up 3.8 degrees
       rx-sector: 96
Does this mean we should align this unit a bit better and move it right some 11 degrees and move it up some 4 degrees?

And what are these tx and rx sector's telling us? "rx-sector: 96". What is that?

Could this 'mis' alignment also be the reason we can only get some 600Mbps tcp aggregated over this link that only has to cross some 116 meters..
When I'd try udp traffic we'd reach the full 1Gb cable limit easy.

I was surprised by this since we've setup some P2MP networks with these devices and here we get similar or even better speeds at bigger distances.
I also made a test with a 'wirespeed out of the box' set two months ago and had no problems getting more then 1Gb of aggregated tcp traffic over 150 meters distance.....

So is this unit not aligned well?
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu May 24, 2018 8:04 pm

can someone explain what "signal" means? RSSI is -69 to -70 and signal is load dependent.. up to 100Mb/s = 80, 700Mb (maximum and full duplex) 35 to 50.

It is longest WAP with custom antenna i have... 520m
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Fri May 25, 2018 5:30 am

can anyone ship these? Ill buy 5-10 right now.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed May 30, 2018 3:42 am

All those photos of you in Hawaii and not one of them showing you in a swimsuit at the beach. For shame
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:52 am

Results on a rainy day: P Light rainfall ...
w60g_1421 — kopia.jpg

Rock stable at 1200m on the rain. The new antenna model has a box with a connector Keysotne or Krone at the back of the antenna, the front is completely enclosed with a draft radom shield :P
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:11 pm

Rock stable at 1200m on the rain. The new antenna model has a box with a connector Keysotne or Krone at the back of the antenna, the front is completely enclosed with a draft radom shield :P
?? Photo's of the antenna and the type of shield? Would the shield make any difference in respect of the rain?
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 am

The rain affects the attenuation and polarization of millimeter waves, shielding will not lessen the impact of rain.
"At the millimeter wave frequency of 60GHz, the atmospheric absorption is very high, with 98 percent of the transmitted energy absorbed by atmospheric oxygen. While oxygen absorption at 60GHz severely limits range, it also eliminates interference between same frequency terminals.
A 60GHz communications system must overcome the effects of oxygen absorption, 16dB/KM. In order to operate reliably at even short ranges, a very focused, narrow-beam antenna must also be employed to increase the level of signal available to the target receiver. This combination of oxygen absorption and narrow beam transmission enhances the security of the 60GHz radio link, minimizing the probability of unauthorized intercept."

Check the rain level in your area.
This can help: https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:21 am

The rain affects the attenuation and polarization of millimeter waves, shielding will not lessen the impact of rain.
"At the millimeter wave frequency of 60GHz, the atmospheric absorption ...
We write about the test links that actually are running. I know the limitations of the physics, but we are speaking from experience of actual effects on traffic running on a LHG60 link.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:29 am

The rain affects the attenuation and polarization of millimeter waves, shielding will not lessen the impact of rain.
"At the millimeter wave frequency of 60GHz, the atmospheric absorption ...
We write about the test links that actually are running. I know the limitations of the physics, but we are speaking from experience of actual effects on traffic running on a LHG60 link.

Yes. This is great.

As 60GHz is very special it would be a great if someone does a showcase with a fast 5GHz Failover solution. Esp where 60GHz is used near to it's physical limits and voip is used ...
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:02 pm

The rain affects the attenuation and polarization of millimeter waves, shielding will not lessen the impact of rain.
"At the millimeter wave frequency of 60GHz, the atmospheric absorption is very high, with 98 percent of the transmitted energy absorbed by atmospheric oxygen. While oxygen absorption at 60GHz severely limits range, it also eliminates interference between same frequency terminals.
A 60GHz communications system must overcome the effects of oxygen absorption, 16dB/KM. In order to operate reliably at even short ranges, a very focused, narrow-beam antenna must also be employed to increase the level of signal available to the target receiver. This combination of oxygen absorption and narrow beam transmission enhances the security of the 60GHz radio link, minimizing the probability of unauthorized intercept."

Check the rain level in your area.
This can help: https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86
This is exactly the reason I asked the question.
?? Photo's of the antenna and the type of shield? Would the shield make any difference in respect of the rain?
We've recently had some heavy rains here (reduced visibility to 500 meters due the rain) and the 50-100 meters 60Ghz links with the w60G units had no issue to stay up. (There was no traffic though, but the parameters stayed fine).
We also had some 300 - 350 meter (Ignitenet) 60 GHz links that lost 6 to 9 dB of signal but they managed to stay connected.
So I am really wondering what the LHG 60Ghz link would do under 'it is raining cats and dogs' conditions.

The photo's and movie of the test case of 'djvolt1942' are nice but I can't call that serious rain (nor snow).
This guy in Hawaii with its rain forest alike tropical climate must be able to show us some real life downpour conditions on his link..... I can't believe it didn't rain over there since the initial setup..... :o

Nevertheless I am dying to buy one of the first sets of LHGG60 when they come available in Europe/Spain. I have plenty use for them.... My dreams are to have all my 100 - 1500 meters links replaced by 60 GHz links in an interference free low latency high capacity and affordable backbone network! If I can't beat the 'big' competitors in money I have to play it smart.... :D
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:45 pm

E-Band like Siklu ETH v1200 works at 2500meters at 76GHz!!!.. 16GHz difference and only 500MHz width!

WirelessRudy - do you have in Spain the Snowy days? :P If yes the standard LHG60 doesnt work :P That's why the first links are in Hawaii where there will never be snow... IgniteNet ML-60-35 is ok max up to 1700m.

This are the first stable link thats we made at February at Havy Snowy Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kzOolah8A
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 pm

E-Band like Siklu ETH v1200 works at 2500meters at 76GHz!!!.. 16GHz difference and only 500MHz width!

WirelessRudy - do you have in Spain the Snowy days? :P If yes the standard LHG60 doesnt work :P That's why the first links are in Hawaii where there will never be snow... IgniteNet ML-60-35 is ok max up to 1700m.

This are the first stable link thats we made at February at Havy Snowy Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kzOolah8A
This is not LHG 60G in that video and has nothing to do with this thread.
Different frequencies has different oxygen absorption parameters. 60GHz frequency is at it's worst.
In Latvia there are snowy winters and Rainy days - 1500m worked fine alrady before all the major improvements from latest RC releases.
Rain adds some attenuation, but link will stay stable.
Self made antennas won't provide such precision as used in LHG60G as well as there will be no suitable calibration for them.
P.S.
If You will continue to push out Your solution in every post you make, we will be forced to limit your forum access.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:26 pm

Dear antonsb please answer for my email question about LHG60 :)

Is it possible or not possible to get what I am asking for...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:51 am

E-Band like Siklu ETH v1200 works at 2500meters at 76GHz!!!.. 16GHz difference and only 500MHz width!
That's another band and also not a free one. There are plenty of solutions on the market to bridge 2500 meters. But mostly licensed of very, very expensive.... let's stick to the topic.

WirelessRudy - do you have in Spain the Snowy days? :P If yes the standard LHG60 doesnt work :P That's why the first links are in Hawaii where there will never be snow... IgniteNet ML-60-35 is ok max up to 1700m.
We have rarely snow in Spain. I live here now for 16 years and have seen 3 times a morning with a snow deck. In the afternoon it was gone....
Rain is more regular so that's where my concern lies. Although heavy rain is also a pretty rare event here... but it happens, 2 or 3 times a year....

I have 4 Metrolink 60Ghz links running but it took me 2 complete set of RMA's (ALL units!) to keep them running and still they give regular cuts. These units are not worth the money but at the time no economical alternative.
Hence I am waiting for the Mikrotik solution. So far these small (w60G) devices work splendid. Easy to align, easy to setup, affordable, high capacity and small form factor. What more does a man need? Well, some bigger distance. If the new LHG60G devices are as good as their small brothers they will be a landscape mover in short range wireless networking.....

I have a dense populated area to serve and use Mimosa 5ghz for high capacity delivery (up to 200Mbps!). But a w60G as CPE is cheaper then a Mimosa CPE and it works better then the Mimosa too! What a pity we are limited to 7 clients per AP.....
No, after the w60G devices I fell completely in love (again) with Mikrotik. But for short distances only.....
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:22 am

In my opinion,
snow when snowing is no big problem

in Poland we have sticky snow in windy winter day , in about 0 temperature,
its make all antena in beaten sticky snow

antenna lokls like that

Image

we haeve that weather 2 - 12 days in a year
its cut ~~ 20 db from grid and ~~15 db from dish antennas 5g


dry snow is less problematic, most problem make snow around 0 degree, whitch is sticky,and wet

i think that will kill 60g LHG link
due to antenna construction
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:51 am

Please keep in mind that stated 1.5km range is with including weather factors.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:50 am

Please keep in mind that stated 1.5km range is with including weather factors.
We have a Wap 60G client connected to a Wap 60G basestation since last week. Distance 204 meters. (Only one other client to this AO at 50 meters).
mcs 4
phy-rate:1155.0Mbps
signal : 40
rssi :-69
tx-sector : 28
tx-sector-info: left 3.8 degrees, down 3.8 degrees
rx-sector : 96

I can 'pump' some 400+mbps over the link so that is fine. But rain fade is an issue. We've had a good but moderate rain shower over weekend and the link dropped a couple of times during this. As soon the severity took off it came back. Actually by the signal I could see the shower increasing or decreasing in its intensity.
This was not a shower like a tropical downpour, we still had some 1000 or more meters visibility. But it shows that these little brothers are effected by serious rain if on the edge of their reach.
The other units at 50mtrs didn't even drop in signal.

I am sure as soon as we have some 60G LHG we can replace this little one by its bigger sister and we have no more rain issue on this link....
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:18 pm

I have prrtty much same problem. Water is a big issue. This weekend signal dropped by 23dBm on 400m. I didnt get my hands on lhg60 yet ( not on stock ) but it seems that signal can drop over 50dBm on 1km. I am using dish with radom. Maybe water on radom is that problem... I dont know. Does anyone has data from lhg in bigger rain?

I also have another question on mikrotik. Are you planning any kind of improvements on ptmp? It works kinda like 802.11b.... More clients = slower speed. Also do you have any plans for backed up lhg with 5GHz?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:36 pm

water on radome cover will affect link quality a lot more than water covering parabolic dish.

PTMP improvements will be added in upcoming versions.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:32 pm

water on radome cover will affect link quality a lot more than water covering parabolic dish.

PTMP improvements will be added in upcoming versions.
Hello,
we have a test LHG ptp link 850m and it's light rain now and i don't see rain impact, data like in sunny day, see data below

interface w60g monitor wlan60-1
connected: yes
frequency: 62640
remote-address: deleted-mac
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -61
tx-sector: 15
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, down 1 degrees
rx-sector: 96
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:49 pm

signal: 80
rssi: -61
tx-sector: 15
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, down 1 degrees
rx-sector: 96
Would be nice to get some better explanation on these data (I am not talking the values!)
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:56 pm

signal: 80
rssi: -61
tx-sector: 15
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, down 1 degrees
rx-sector: 96
Would be nice to get some better explanation on these data (I am not talking the values!)
Yes, that would be good, because now i guess.
Mikrotik Team, please add to wiki the meaning of values and max min possible values also.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:23 pm

More background info on the LHG G60 Project in Hawaii.

It is located on the island of Oahu, within the city of Honolulu. - - So, no Volcanoes, the active volcanoes you are seeing in the news are located in a very small area on the island of Hawaii about 363 Kilometers (225 Miles) away.

The ends of the links are located in an area that is East of the beach resort area known as Waikiki. - - So, it is not in a Tropoical Rain Forest. The Rain Forest areas on Oahu are up higher and behind the mountains you see in the background.

One end is located on a 4.6m tall Non-Penetrating Mast located on a 6m tall roof section of the “Waikiki Shell” (a music/concert venue). This is the end that I was pictured with when installing the LHGG60.

The other end was mounted on a transportable testing mast that was located atop a 25-Story building called "Fairway House".
Image

Light rain has had minimal effect.

In all fairness, the alignment on the Waikiki Shell unit is slightly off by about 2º~3º, however, it performs very well on sunny days. As this is a secured government owned facility, I have to make special arrangements to determine when I can be up on that rooftop. For the past few weeks there have been University and High School Graduation events being held there and I have not been able to work out a time for me to be up there. Now that those events have subsided, I hope to get up there in the next week - - Any body that happens to be in Honolulu/Waikiki at that time is welcome to join me for the site visit.

There has not yet been what I would consider a "Heavy Rain" event in this area as yet... I'm waiting for a "Cats and Dogs" or "Tropical Storm" Heavy Rain event to run extensive testing.

From everything I have read on the subject, the 60GHz frequency is more limited due to Oxygen absorption than rain fade.

Snow??? Not at this location... Snow DOES occur in Hawaii, however, only at the much higher elevations found on the mountains located on the island of Hawaii and Maui during the winter months.

Fortunately, the Waikiki Shell venue is an Outdoor Venue, and as such is a perfect test site as it would not be a major concern if there were a drop of bandwidth during heavy rains... I think they would close the facility, cancel any performances and/or not be in full operation during heavy rains.

The unit I received was perhaps an early release, or early production unit off the assembly line, with the original (typical) Signal Strength LEDs. The New RouterOS release candidate firmware upgrades the LHGG60 allowing the top five(5) LEDs to indicate a Minimal connection and Left, Right, Down and Up indicators. I believe that the plan is to have a sticker similar to the one shown below applied to the later LHGG60 units to indicate which LED will be for Left, Right, Down and Up.
Image

While I await the approval to access the Waikiki Shell mast, I have moved the LHGG60 unit that was located on a small transportable tripod mast atop Fairway House to a permanent 60mm diameter steel pipe mast that has been installed between the floor and ceiling on the balcony right outside my 25th floor window. This will give me easier access to the unit at all hours of the day, not just when I was allowed to go up on the roof by the building manager. - - I will therefore be able to make alignment changes, updates and performance tests anytime I wish.
Last edited by jainge on Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:26 am

@jainge; Thanks for that info. Interesting tourist info too!

Anyway, it gives me the 'feeling' you actually had some early test versions / versions for test purposes only. How come? All the way in Hawaii? Did the Mikrotik guys happen to be there on holiday and had 2 of these units in their suitcase?
Together with the fact I haven't seen any posts from nobody yet, apart from some statements from Mikrotik crew, it seems these units are not out in the field yet....

I am wondering why is that. According the many statements there could be hundreds of these out in the fields by now since they are said to be available for weeks now.....
So far her in Europe the message from several suppliers is still 'mid June' available at wholesale..... :-(

I find the whole 'availability' issue around these units a bit misty to say the least..... :?
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:11 pm

Our supplier has confirmed today they have the LHG60G in stock and can send our order, but these are pairs preconfigured and only for PtP ,could someone give an indication of when these will be available for PtMP ?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:38 pm

I think you can connect LHG60 to same wAP60 with Licence 4 as AP :) You must only change SSID and security password
_________________
###############
PtP 60GHz Pro MHD: $660 exc VAT
http://24.multimediahd.pl/en/60ghz/8-wi ... link-.html
www.siec.multimediahd.pl/60ghz
###############
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:06 pm

@jainge; Thanks for that info. Interesting tourist info too!

Anyway, it gives me the 'feeling' you actually had some early test versions / versions for test purposes only. How come? All the way in Hawaii? Did the Mikrotik guys happen to be there on holiday and had 2 of these units in their suitcase?
Together with the fact I haven't seen any posts from nobody yet, apart from some statements from Mikrotik crew, it seems these units are not out in the field yet....

I am wondering why is that. According the many statements there could be hundreds of these out in the fields by now since they are said to be available for weeks now.....
So far her in Europe the message from several suppliers is still 'mid June' available at wholesale..... :-(

I find the whole 'availability' issue around these units a bit misty to say the least..... :?
I am very sorry to all of you on this Forum. I initially posted my videos, photos and results to Facebook, on my Facebook page(s) https://www.facebook.com/jimaainge and that of the Millimeter Wave WISP Equipment Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1759357 ... oup_header. And the WISP Talk Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/249134358750920/

I acquired this Pair of Pre-Configutred LHGG60 units while I was at the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany.

They were in professionally printed packaging as a Pre-Configured pair and all of the printed cartons, product labeling and Serial Number/MAC Address labels were as if they were ready for distribution. Perhaps these were the first off of the production line that were flown in from the factory to be at the MUM.

These LHGG60 units were originally announced at the same time the wAP60G units were over a year ago when I was at the 2017 MUM in Milan, Italy.

I too waited anxiously for this LHGG60 and the wAP60G units to be released.

Once the wAP60G units were available, I had several communications with the MikroTik staff while I worked on another project I have here in Hawaii where I used the wAP60G product in a Exposition Hall.

I have four(4) wAP60G units setup in AP-Bridge Mode (PtMP) providing a 185,000 square foot Exposition Hall with Gigabit Class service to individual booths. For those booths that order Internet service, I temporarily install a wAP60G in Station-Bridge Mode in their booth to provide internet connectivity for their booth. Since the wAP60G in AP-Bridge Mode can support up to 8 Station-Bridge units, I can provide service to booths throughout the exposition show floor using up to 32 wAP60G Station-Bridge units.

I kept in contact with MikroTik Support and my Distributor, Baltic Networks, through out the planning, installation and final implementation of this project in February of 2018.

As I was providing feedback to MikroTik I became familiar with the support people that responded to my inquiries.

So when I came to the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany I was familiar with a few of the staff members that helped me to implement the 60GHz wAP60G product and understand its capabilities.

I was pleasantly surprised to finally see the LHGG60 at the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany in what looked to be final packaging... the previous year we only saw prototype units.

I was surprisingly selected to be a tester while I was at the MikroTik MUM. While I was at the MikroTik table asking about Rain Fade over a 1500m distance, I was asked by the staff if I actually had a 1,500m link currently available that I would be able to use this on. I had my laptop with me and showed them a 1,470m link on my network maps where I was required to replace an existing 1470m 39GHz link very soon as Verizon Wireless had recently acquired the license for the 39GHz frequency I was using and I was required to terminate usage of the frequency very soon.

They then brought out a "Wireless Wire Dish" box and asked if I had space in my luggage to take this back to Hawaii with me... my partner (wife) said "Yes" faster than I could take a breath. They then filled out a log sheet with the details of the link and the unit I was being provided with. I was the first one on the log. sheet There were a few more open lines on the form. I suspect that there are other testers out there, probably in Europe as I was one of handful of attendees from the U.S.A..

I posted an "Unboxing video" to Facebook while I was still in my hotel in Berlin, thus confirming the actual existence of the product in it's soon to be released form https://www.facebook.com/jimaainge/vide ... 743932510/

Once we got back to Hawaii I proceeded to install the pair of units and since then I have been applying new RouterOS Release candidate versions as requested and testing the newly added features of the LHGG60, its operation and performance.

You can look back through my postings on Facebook to see a few other postings on the installation and initial testing of the LHGG60.

Once I again gain access to the Waikiki Shell mast I will perform a better alignment using the new RouterOS release candidate firmware and conduct more testing to be reported back to MikroTik and post to this Forum.

The latest RouterOS rc update not only supports the new LED aiming/alignment interface, it is supposedly able to further improve the stability of the link and increase the maximum distance to +2,000m.

I can probably coordinate a test of the LHGG60 link up to, or near to, the 2000m distance if I temporarily set it up in the park located beyond the Waikiki Shell location... We'll see how that works out.

In response to another posting, I do not see how a LHGG60 could be used as a PtMP AP as it has a very focused, approximately 3º maximum angle of coverage.

However, as I recall, I saw a question here and in the Facebook posting about using the LHGG60 as a Client in Station-Bridge Mode in a PtMP configuration... As far as I understand it, according to MikroTik support staff, the LHGG60 can be used as Client in Station-Bridge Mode with a wAP60G in AP-Bridge Mode (Level 4 License required) at full speed on distances of up to about 700m...? Perhaps someone from MikroTik can chime in on that to confirm and/or clarify this.

I cannot speak to the current availability of the LHGG60 as I too cannot order more units for myself at this time... and after testing this one, I Definitely want more of these units!

Perhaps I can order them to be drop shipped from the factory to Hawaii in order to save me on shipping costs. ;-)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:47 pm

@jainge: Thanks for all that. So you where in fact 'the lucky guy'. Good! And more good news, extended range to 2000km! That gives me a couple of more links I can use them for (Although I think at this distance heavy rain will bring it down so a 5Ghz backup should still be running.)

If I take a look at the pictures I've seen so far this LHG-dish having a slightly more dense honey-grate structure then the 5 and 2,4Ghz sisters? I would expect so since the wavelength of 60Ghz is so small it might miss the raster of the 2,4 and 5Ghz ones.
In fact I'd wondered why MT didn't chose a thin metal foil. This would then also reduce the 'sticky snow' issue a bit for those that are affected by snow. (Not me!)

I think it would be no problem to use two of the LHG-60ad's of the wireless kit as CPE's in a P2MP setup. I'd presume all the hardware is the same and they run ROS! I have done the same with the small units.
Sometimes some providers sell the kit cheaper as two stand alone level 3 units so here you go....
According the law of physics, ie. antena gain and radio power, in analogy of all other radio wave transmissions, the signal strengt can be boosted by having either more powerful radio or a higher gain antena. Since the LHG-60ad most probably has the same hardware/radio as its smaller sisters all we have is a bigger gain antena and thus higher signal output as well as better receipt.
In using the LHG-60ad in a P2MP setup where a wAP 60G AP serves as AP we should have no issue to create cells of up to probably 500 to 750 meters (or more!)

The only caveat of 60Ghz on bigger distances, no matter how powerful the radio/how much gain the antenna, is that in end the energy is consumed by rain. And since the power budget on longer reaches drops pretty fast a bit of rain pushes the link over the edge.
But if you account for that (spare backhaul/failover) then I think the 60Ghz platform is a very nice product line.

(I worked now for over a year with Ignitenet's 60Ghz solution and although it gave us a way out of some spectral issues they also gave us grey hares and even after several replacements they are still not working 100%. If they don't drop their prices by at least 50% I think they loose a lot of market share to the new Mikrotik product..... At least I am not buying from them anymore.....)
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:05 pm

@jainge: Thanks for all that. So you where in fact 'the lucky guy'. Good! And more good news, extended range to 2000km! That gives me a couple of more links I can use them for (Although I think at this distance heavy rain will bring it down so a 5Ghz backup should still be running.)

If I take a look at the pictures I've seen so far this LHG-dish having a slightly more dense honey-grate structure then the 5 and 2,4Ghz sisters? I would expect so since the wavelength of 60Ghz is so small it might miss the raster of the 2,4 and 5Ghz ones.
In fact I'd wondered why MT didn't chose a thin metal foil. This would then also reduce the 'sticky snow' issue a bit for those that are affected by snow. (Not me!)

I think it would be no problem to use two of the LHG-60ad's of the wireless kit as CPE's in a P2MP setup. I'd presume all the hardware is the same and they run ROS! I have done the same with the small units.
Sometimes some providers sell the kit cheaper as two stand alone level 3 units so here you go....
According the law of physics, ie. antena gain and radio power, in analogy of all other radio wave transmissions, the signal strengt can be boosted by having either more powerful radio or a higher gain antena. Since the LHG-60ad most probably has the same hardware/radio as its smaller sisters all we have is a bigger gain antena and thus higher signal output as well as better receipt.
In using the LHG-60ad in a P2MP setup where a wAP 60G AP serves as AP we should have no issue to create cells of up to probably 500 to 750 meters (or more!)

The only caveat of 60Ghz on bigger distances, no matter how powerful the radio/how much gain the antenna, is that in end the energy is consumed by rain. And since the power budget on longer reaches drops pretty fast a bit of rain pushes the link over the edge.
But if you account for that (spare backhaul/failover) then I think the 60Ghz platform is a very nice product line.

(I worked now for over a year with Ignitenet's 60Ghz solution and although it gave us a way out of some spectral issues they also gave us grey hares and even after several replacements they are still not working 100%. If they don't drop their prices by at least 50% I think they loose a lot of market share to the new Mikrotik product..... At least I am not buying from them anymore.....)
There is definitive a need for 5GHz Backup. The weather is getting more problematic these days. We had 2 hard rains the last 10 days which even brought our 18GHz licensed links over it's limits (>30db attenuation) which have a big margin calculated. But backups have to take over very fast as the rain kicks in fast. For sure this rain would take out 60GHz, too.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:08 am

@WirelessRudy
If I take a look at the pictures I've seen so far this LHG-dish having a slightly more dense honey-grate structure then the 5 and 2,4Ghz sisters? I would expect so since the wavelength of 60Ghz is so small it might miss the raster of the 2,4 and 5Ghz ones.
Unfortunately, I have never worked with any other MikroTik LHG Dish so I can't answer that.

However, I could take a photo with a scale up to it if that would help you?

Image
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:11 am

@jainge: Yes, much smaller. On the 2,4 and 5Ghz these are about 6 x 4 mm where your picture shows 1 x 1 mm roughly.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:18 am

There is definitive a need for 5GHz Backup. The weather is getting more problematic these days. We had 2 hard rains the last 10 days which even brought our 18GHz licensed links over it's limits (>30db attenuation) which have a big margin calculated. But backups have to take over very fast as the rain kicks in fast. For sure this rain would take out 60GHz, too.
Every network has its own characteristics and demands.
I am using 60Ghz to get high capacity for my clients where due the spectral congestion this is almost impossible to do with normal 5Ghz stuff. Yes I can go for LTE or other solutions but who says it will help me and my pockets are not deep enough anyway to go for most alternative.
I am also lucky that if we would count heavy rain hours a year, I'd probably reach 2 hours!
Moderate to heavy rain, maybe 4 hours. Per year! So that is not really an issue. In fact it's such a rare event usually power goes down, or people are looking through the window of the house instead of the 'windows' on their PC.....
Off course my backbone network has to stay up. It has one 60Ghz link in it transporting some 40% of my clients traffic. But if it goes down we have a 'loop' that can supply (limited) capacity to the other side of the link.

To us a backup solution that needs 5Ghz to run all the time is not a solution. It would need spectrum that we now have freed so our other 5Ghz stuff has better cleaner spectrum.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:45 am

Please keep in mind that stated 1.5km range is with including weather factors.
A silly or not so silly idea. What about coating the reflector with a hydrophobic material such as Teflon (PTFE)?
It should help to prevent snow or even ice from sticking to the antenna.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:36 am

@JAINGE - How many hours of flight time did you spend getting to Berlin?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:04 am

First (i think that is first :)) LHG 60G in Croatia linked today...picture and results below.
We would like to have more info about signal/allignment, and if is results that we have OK or it must be better (signal and speed).
For now we can see problems with U-bolt, same as on DynaDish that, after one time squeeze, there is problem to unloose, without brake it ? Any other with same problems ?
lhg60g.png
lhg60g_mast.jpg
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:36 am

First (i think that is first :) LGH 60G in Croatia linked today...picture and results below.
We would like to have more info about signal/allignment, and if is results that we have OK or it must be better (signal and speed).
For now we can see problems with U-bolt, same as on DynaDish that, after one time squeeze, there is problem to unloose, without brake it ? Any other with same problems ?

lhg60g.png
lhg60g_mast.jpg
Link is good, With „center“ in the TX Info Field then you are aligned 100%.
We tried it with a 1800m link and getting one side to center the other not.

The u-bolt problem is known and a result of the used material. We are change the include nut to galvanized ones and don’t use stainless steel nuts, and our problems are gone.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:35 pm

Link is good, With „center“ in the TX Info Field then you are aligned 100%.
We tried it with a 1800m link and getting one side to center the other not.
I don't understand TX / RX sector values? Which side to align, and what are these values represent?
How to align AP side if there is no info about aligning?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:45 pm

First (i think that is first :)) LHG 60G in Croatia linked today...picture and results below.
We would like to have more info about signal/allignment, and if is results that we have OK or it must be better (signal and speed).
-69 dB @ 1.3Km? Urgl... I don't know if that's normal for LHG60 at this distance but the link won't hold when it will be raining. On this channel and at this distance, you can easly loss more than 7 dB under moderate to heavy rain (In fact, a lot more at this frequency. Try to at least use the highest frequency available: 64800)
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:52 pm

I don't understand TX / RX sector values? Which side to align, and what are these values represent?
How to align AP side if there is no info about aligning?
I think the "tx-sector-info" mean that the other antenna is in that direction. "Left 1.4 degrees" mean that you should turn the antenna by 1.4 degree to the left so that it will be aligned on the other antenna.

I think that the "tx-sector" (and rx-sector) value is just the arbitrary number of a square in a grid. The "tx-sector-info" is the direction of that square in horizontal and vertical axis.

Those values seems a lot more reliable with the LHG60 than with the wAP 60: On the wAP 60, the values keep changing by up to 20-30 degree without doing anything lol.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:34 am

There is definitive a need for 5GHz Backup. The weather is getting more problematic these days. We had 2 hard rains the last 10 days which even brought our 18GHz licensed links over it's limits (>30db attenuation) which have a big margin calculated. But backups have to take over very fast as the rain kicks in fast. For sure this rain would take out 60GHz, too.
i just revisited my first photos i took of the guts of my first wAP60G. if you look closely, you'll see two 5 hole formations on the bottom right part of the PCB (arranged like the 5 on the dice, written CH0 and CH1 next to them) and two unpopulated BGA pads. as the IPQ4019 already has 2 5GHz radios each with dedicated CPUs, this is probably the most plausible explanation for the preparations on the PCB.
so i guess Mikrotik will just make a version with two RF connectors (maybe mmcx / rpsma) and at least one of them RF stages populated and we have our 5GHz back-up...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:41 am

An approximation chart on how far the LHGs can work, under normal weather conditions, in relation to speed, would be really nice
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:13 pm

1,7km at 1Gb/s full duplex is achievable. Not more than 1km in heavy rain is not possible.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:50 am

We have fantastic news for all... We have new products for Original LHG60 to improve stability and real distances:
Hermetic enclosure:
DSCF2544 — kopia.JPG
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Only Radom:
IMG_20180720_105811 kopia.jpg
http://24.multimediahd.pl/pl/60ghz/105- ... radom.html
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http://24.multimediahd.pl/pl/60ghz/103- ... older.html

You're welcome :)

For MT staff: please unlock tx-power > 8...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:56 am

I'm using Metrolinqs now but have not been happy with their reliability. We've been waiting for Mikrotik to come into this game and now that you have I only have two questions. First, the honey combed dish is o.k. in areas that are dry or only have light rainfall but we live in snowy country and those grid honey combed dishes will only collect lots of ice and snow and the link will quickly die. Why not come out with radome unit? Secondly, are the testing screenshots of the bandwidth testing using UDP or TCP protocol?

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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:58 am

Just saw the posting with the Radomes for the LHG60! We await shipment to the United States.......Nice!
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:58 pm

I deployed 3 sets in my network.
First, very good (the shortest)

The second bit longer, it can break unexpectedly, although it works on 6.42.5 (maybe the latest version will fix the problem) for now 24 days uptime, 40x link down.

The third, the longest 852 meters, the weakest. In good weather signal 95,
During rain, the link breaks off, even for 20 minutes, which is unacceptable, antennas seem to be set very well.
Any ideas?
w60g.png
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:20 pm

I deployed 3 sets in my network.
First, very good (the shortest)

The second bit longer, it can break unexpectedly, although it works on 6.42.5 (maybe the latest version will fix the problem) for now 24 days uptime, 40x link down.

The third, the longest 852 meters, the weakest. In good weather signal 95,
During rain, the link breaks off, even for 20 minutes, which is unacceptable, antennas seem to be set very well.
Any ideas?w60g.png
I'd presume these are all LHG units?
Hold your horses in the upgrade to 6.42.6. On the several wAP 60G units we have it dramatically reduced connection range. After the upgrade signals became unstable and unit started to drop of. Some units wouldn't even connect anymore due too little signal. Rolling back to 6.42.4 (last good working version in my case) they all worked again....

Seems to me hardware of LHG unit is probably the same so be aware.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:12 am

I deployed 3 sets in my network.
First, very good (the shortest)

The second bit longer, it can break unexpectedly, although it works on 6.42.5 (maybe the latest version will fix the problem) for now 24 days uptime, 40x link down.

The third, the longest 852 meters, the weakest. In good weather signal 95,
During rain, the link breaks off, even for 20 minutes, which is unacceptable, antennas seem to be set very well.
Any ideas?w60g.png
.
Try the highest frequency channel 64800MHz for the long link as it has lower attenuation.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:46 am

I Have a bad experience with radome. When it rains that radome stays wet and signal drop a lot even few hours after rain. By my tests radom is not recomended.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:28 am

First: It's not true, where you get it? We have only one in the world compatible with LHG60 and LHG5.

Second: Rain is not a big problem, Without radom snow kill any LHG's...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:07 am

Agreed, radome are not a problem. This is a 1.3Km Metrolinq link during a thunderstorm. Signal dropped when it started to rain a lot and came back up right when the rain lessened. The water on the radome didn't affected the signal at all. Only the density of the rain between the two antenna.
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:44 am

1300meters and no lost connection? Wow, Ignitenet is very powerfull, we will have modification of this antennas with our dishes :)

P.S: which program generates such charts?
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:02 am

I am using Zabbix but there is many other tools. I don't think there is official templates for LHG60 or Metrolinq but it's easy enough to make one. (There is a perl script "mib2zabbix.pl" that will do a snmpwalk and generate a template with all the values for Zabbix). There is templates for other Mikrotik devices, including wireless ones but not for 60Ghz.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:03 am

Waiting for the rain to test the MikroTik LHG 60G over a 1473.16m link... Hurricane LANE will be here in a day or two.

Image

The Link is located in Honolulu, Hawaii between the Waikiki Shell and the roof of the Fairway House Condominium building.

Image

The Peak signal reading we currently see is 100 with an RSSI of -58dB, however, the signal typically vacillates between 100 and 80 (RSSI down to -60dB) while maintaining an MCS of 8 and a PHY rate of 2.3 Gbps.

We are currently running RouterOS 6.43.rc51... Any thoughts on whether we should go up to 6.43.rc56 ?

This should be interesting!
Last edited by jainge on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:21 am

@JAINGE - How many hours of flight time did you spend getting to Berlin?
10 hours from HNL to JFK, about 5-6 hours to Heathrow and another 1.5 hours to Berlin.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:20 pm

We are currently running RouterOS 6.43.rc51... Any thoughts on whether we should go up to 6.43.rc56 ?
rc56 has very important enhancements. For example, there was some unstability affecting the beamforming of the wap60 and the MCS determination.

Turns out it was the periodic distance calculation (and maybe something else), which is now performed once when the link becomes stable.

I have been trying most of the 6.43 rc versions and with rc > 21 there were some unstability problems. rc56 has become rock stable, even better than rc21.

If I were you I would give it a try.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:03 pm

Waiting for the rain to test the MikroTik LHG 60G over a 1473.16m link... Hurricane LANE will be here in a day or two.
I'll be waiting to see your findings. Be safe!
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:57 pm

When on 6.43.rc51 I found it strange that the RSSI gets worse when you follow the TX Sector alignment cues. You would think that the RSSI would get better.

When I aligned by RSSI I can get a peak RSSI of -57dB, peak signal of 100, an MCS of 8 and a PHY rate of 2.3Gbps, however, the alignment guide states that it is left 0.2º, down 0.6º.

What I also noticed is that the Signal reading would regularly vary (wave pattern) between 100 and 80, while the RSSI went from a high of -57dB to a low of -63dB

I Upgraded to 6.43.rc56.

When I use 6.43.rc56 internal alignment guide, and get it to "center", the RSSI is -60dB, signal of 80 and an MCS of 8 with no variation in Signal and RSSI on the Bridge(Master) unit.
[admin@MikroTik] /interface> w60g monitor wlan60-1 once
connected: yes
frequency: 58320
remote-address: 30:07:4D:43:06:F6
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -60
tx-sector: 27
tx-sector-info: center
distance: 1473.2m

The Station Bridge(Slave) unit is not accessible right now, and won't be till next week. So it will have to go through the storm under these conditions:
[admin@MikroTik] /interface> w60g monitor wlan60-1 once
connected: yes
frequency: 58320
remote-address: 30:07:4D:43:06:ED
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -59
tx-sector: 39
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, up 0.2 degrees
distance: 1473.18m

I guess we will see what happens.

The calm before the storm...
Image
Last edited by jainge on Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:18 pm

Hurricane LANE Update:

No Heavy Rain bands as yet.

We have been experiencing increased winds and light rain bands due to the storm.

Since updating to RouterOS 6.43.rc56 the units have been rock solid, even through the light rain bands we have been experiencing.
Image

On another note (nothing to do with the performance of the MikroTik LHG 60G) the storm brought us an interesting sunset today (180º Panoramic).
Image
Last edited by jainge on Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:09 am

In one day LANE was downgraded from a Category 5 to a Strong Tropical Storm. It is now moving at 2-3 mph towards the West and passing Honolulu 115 miles to our south. It's been windy all night with light to moderate rains (Still no Heavy Rains).

I ran a Traffic Generator between the links all night. It averaged at about 930 Mbps before the rains arrived and dropped to a low of about 800 Mbps at times during the night. RSSI went from -59 to a low of -69. Signal has maintained at 80, MCS at 8, PHY rate at 2.3 Gbps. According to the MikroTik LHG 60G Interface Traffic monitor on the Station Bridge(Slave) unit there were 0 TX/RX Drops and 0 Errors.

Image

They are predicting heavy rains later today.

One unusual metric that occurred overnight is that now BOTH units indicate that they are off-center: left 0.2º, down 0.6º. Perhaps the new firmware (6.43.rc56) I applied yesterday has managed to average out the previously known misalignment of the Station bridge(Slave) unit. Or, something has moved overnight causing the off-center alignment and the lower RSSI... But why would both be exactly the same tx-sector info?

Image
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:49 am

When I follow the tx-sector-info to adjust the antenna alignment to "center" the RSSI is worse than aligning by RSSI... Why is that? Shouldn't the RSSI get better when I get to "center:"?

Alignment by tx-sector-info shows that I am "center":
connected: yes
frequency: 58320
remote-address: 30:07:4D:43:06:F6
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -71
tx-sector: 35
tx-sector-info: center
distance: 1473.19m

Alignment by best RSSI shows that I am off-center:
connected: yes
frequency: 58320
remote-address: 30:07:4D:43:06:F6
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 95
rssi: -58
tx-sector: 2
tx-sector-info: left 0.6 degrees, down 1.4 degrees
distance: 1473.19m
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:51 am

When I follow the tx-sector-info to adjust the antenna alignment to "center" the RSSI is worse than aligning by RSSI... Why is that? Shouldn't the RSSI get better when I get to "center:"?
Long shot, but maybe a side lobe of the radiating element is hitting something around or receiving multiple reflections?
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:29 pm

THE RAIN, THE RAIN!!!

Moderate rainfall covers the entire length of the link and the link is still up!

Green line is the RF Path of the link. Traffic Generator is running and showing 0 drops, 0 errors. Other Results are in the screen capture.

Image
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:51 pm

And then a HEAVIER remnant of Rain, left over from Hurricane LANE, came by and took down the link.

Green line is the RF path of this 1473m link.

Conclusion is that Light to Moderate rain will have minimal to no effect on a link of this distance (1,473m) at 58320MHz.

However, somewhere between Moderate to Heavy Rain took down this link.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED that this link is not aligned on "center" from both ends and that it is operating at 58.320 GHz... Perhaps a "center" alignment from both ends and operating at a higher frequency will have better results...

Image
Last edited by jainge on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:53 pm

test channel 4 in rain please...
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:41 am

mcs 4
phy-rate:1155.0Mbps
signal : 40
rssi :-69
tx-sector : 28
tx-sector-info: left 3.8 degrees, down 3.8 degrees
rx-sector : 96

I can 'pump' some 400+mbps over the link so that is fine. But rain fade is an issue. We've had a good but moderate rain shower over weekend and the link dropped a couple of times during this. As soon the severity took off it came back. Actually by the signal I could see the shower increasing or decreasing in its intensity.
This was not a shower like a tropical downpour, we still had some 1000 or more meters visibility. But it shows that these little brothers are effected by serious rain if on the edge of their reach.
The other units at 50mtrs didn't even drop in signal.

I am sure as soon as we have some 60G LHG we can replace this little one by its bigger sister and we have no more rain issue on this link....
That's the limit for the W60 anyway :)

And remember that the latest versions have significant enhancements to the automatic tx-sector adjustments. Link stability is much higher.

I am running 6.43rc64, but the most important enhancements are also available on 6.42.7.
 
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:01 pm

New model: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=128787&start=200#p704434

Rock solid stable on +1700m, iperf 940/940Mbps TCP/IP any decrease in transmission quality...
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Re: LHG 60 project in Hawaii

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:32 pm

Hello everyone!!!

We have new product for LHG60: http://24.multimediahd.pl/en/60ghz/106- ... -60ad.html

We preparing new model of holder for wAP60G to make PtP :)
http://24.multimediahd.pl/pl/3-60ghz
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