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mozerd
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The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:33 pm

HUAWEI MA5671A SFP >>> This is a GPON SFP module

Why does the HUAWEI MA5671A SFP module WORK in the MikroTik RB2011 SFP port but does not work in the MikroTik RB4011 SFP+ port?
 
pateutz
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:44 pm

Same thread here .. viewtopic.php?t=140806
 
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:12 pm

Same thread here .. viewtopic.php?t=140806
The thread you linked to has some similarities BUT it is NOT the same.

Its quite apparent that RouterOS and SFP[+] cages [interfaces] do not interact with consistency across all MikroTik routerboards --- and THAT is a real shame because it diminishes the Value proposition of the MikroTik BRAND by a significant amount. MikroTik PLEASE Fix it

Having given this some thought the MikroTik statement that the 4011 SFP+ does not support SFP GPON modules is RIDICULOUS without proper explanation of WHY.
 
Error0x29A
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:22 pm

Same thread here .. viewtopic.php?t=140806
The thread you linked to has some similarities BUT it is NOT the same.

Its quite apparent that RouterOS and SFP[+] cages [interfaces] do not interact with consistency across all MikroTik routerboards --- and THAT is a real shame because it diminishes the Value proposition of the MikroTik BRAND by a significant amount. MikroTik PLEASE Fix it

Having given this some thought the MikroTik statement that the 4011 SFP+ does not support SFP GPON modules is RIDICULOUS without proper explanation of WHY.

On the RB2011, SFP is connected to Atheros AR8327
https://wikidevi.com/files/Atheros/spec ... R8327N.pdf
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_files/RB2011iLS-160620170242.png

RB4011 is fitted with Annapurna Labs chipset AL21400
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/rb_files/RB4011iGSp ... 135303.png

Unless the RB4011's chip was designed with all intermediary speed rates between 1G and 10G, good luck on obtaining new firmware.
Annapurna's priority is speeding up Amazon Web Services not making happy some ISP customers. Internet searches reveal job offers for Embedded Engineers. Either they are expanding or old staff left after the acquisition.
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:45 pm

@Error0x29A, thanK you —— so MikroTik used an ineffective chipset to drive the SFP+ cage .... I will no longer recommend this product and in fact I will discourage others from acquiring/using this POS.
 
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:50 pm

MORE Info on FTTH -- in Canada Bell uses GPON for FTTH and that means <<<< ---- >>>> point to multi point.

Standard SFP/SFP+ modules are point to point.
Plus there needs to be a processor in the GPON SFP to encapsulate the Ethernet frames into the GPON frames.
The issue is that Standard modules don't have any processors like that.

When Bell goes 10-GPON (G.987) or NG-GPON2 (G.989) the SFP+ modules will have a standard 10Gbps sync. We'll be able to stick them in any SFP+ capable router. Still won't be able to use standard SFP+ modules though.

So the Question I have for MikroTik and its SFP/SFP+ cages --- will firmware provide support for both methods ?
 
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ingdaka
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:09 pm

It is noted in product description page! https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_5hacq2hnd_in
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:50 pm

EPON SFP VS. GPON SFP
http://www.fiber-optic-components.com/e ... n-sfp.html

IMO, smarten up MikroTik!
 
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network

Ehich PON is used depends on the ISP implementation.
Two RB760iGS (hEX S) in series. One does PPPoE and both do IKEv2.
Running:
RouterOS 6.46Beta59 / Winbox 3.20 / MikroTik APP 1.3.7
Having an Android device, use https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases (no root required)
 
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:50 pm

SFP/SFP+ are Network INTERFACES and these network interfaces should work much like any other network interface. THAT is the whole point.

The small form-factor pluggable (SFP) is a compact, hot-pluggable network interface module used for both telecommunication and data communications applications. ... SFP transceivers exist supporting SONET, Gigabit Ethernet, Fibre Channel, PON, and other communications standards.

If they do not work CONSISTENTLY across all RouterBoards --- its a failure of the RoS firmware architecture.
 
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:41 pm

SFP/SFP+ are Network INTERFACES and these network interfaces should work much like any other network interface. THAT is the whole point.
No. An interface is the module that you put into your SFP/SFP+ cage, not the cage itself. The specification of the cage itself is (almost) purely mechanical. And my understanding is that both host software and host hardware must be compatible with the type of transceiver you want to use. It appears RB4011 has some hardware limitations.

Bottom line: please stop yelling, and read the product specs carefully the next time you buy something.
 
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:16 pm


No. An interface is the module that you put into your SFP/SFP+ cage, not the cage itself. The specification of the cage itself is (almost) purely mechanical. And my understanding is that both host software and host hardware must be compatible with the type of transceiver you want to use. It appears RB4011 has some hardware limitations.

Bottom line: please stop yelling, and read the product specs carefully the next time you buy something.
MikroTik Interfaces.GIF
@andriys
The following nice Lady [Julia Evans] is VERY happy to teach you all about Network Interfaces:
What's a network interface?

and BTW @andriys, I do not own the RB4011 --- just for your information. Perhaps you should read the SUBJECT of my thread and inwardly digest the concept.
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Last edited by mozerd on Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tdw
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:42 pm

Care must be taken not to compare dissimilar things.

There are a range of SFF specifications, and whilst the electrical interfaces of the 18 contacts and the mechanical dimensions of cage & modules are well defined across SFPs the rate, encoding and interpretation of the data streams very much depends on the type of SFP, e.g.

1000Base-SX/LX/BX = 1.25Gb 8b/10b 1000BaseX
10/100/1000Base-T = 1.25Gb 8b/10b SGMII (converted by IC in SFP from copper manchester/4B5B+MLT3/PAM5)
10GBase-SR/LR = 10.3125Gb 64b/66b PCS
1/2/4/8GFC = 1.0625/2.125/4.25/8.5Gb 8b/10b fibre channel
10GFC = 10.51875Gb 64b/66b fibre channel
GPON = 2.48832/1.24416Gbps G.984 (note this is the most common, but not only implementation of GPON)

The Mikrotik implementation should support anything which presents a 1.25Gb 8b/10b 1000BaseX, 1.25Gb 8b/10b SGMII or 10.3125Gb 64b/66b PCS so this excludes dumb GPON SFPs. I specifically use dumb to indicate media conversion between optical and electrical interfaces as passive is different.

All that said, if you have a smart GPON SFP which presents a G.984 interface on the optical interface with onboard processor for management and protocol handling which presents 1.25Gb 8b/10b 1000BaseX on the SFP electrical interface it should work - this is borne out by people saying that the MA5671A SFP works in RB2011s and unmanaged media converters.

TL;DR:
There is a fault with the RB4011 supporting communication with some gigabit or gigabit-like SFPs (see forum comments about interface not working after upgrading firmware).
Once resolved, the brochure page should more correctly say 'The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules or dumb SFP GPON modules'.
 
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mozerd
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Re: The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules and SFP GPON modules

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:49 pm

TL;DR:
There is a fault with the RB4011 supporting communication with some gigabit or gigabit-like SFPs (see forum comments about interface not working after upgrading firmware).
Once resolved, the brochure page should more correctly say 'The RB4011 does not support Passive DAC modules or dumb SFP GPON modules'.
@tdw, Thank You for your EXCELLENT remarks .... IMO you're 100% correct. :)

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