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Jrod8033
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RB450G failing need to replace

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:30 am

I have several of these units that were all installed 3 years ago and 2 of them are failing. It seems that when they handle heavy network traffic the leds on the ports go out and eventually the unit reboots and works again, does this sound like bad capacitors?

I have new RB450G units to replace these units but I am not sure about the best approach to transfer the settings from the old unit to the new units

- the original units are running routerOS 6.28 and the replacement units are on routerOS 6.43.12, does this impact using backup or export?
- i have read that backup should only be used on the same model and routerOS version so this may not be my best choice
- will using the /export commands be the best choice? What settings does export not include?

Thanks for your help.
 
sindy
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:38 am

I have several of these units that were all installed 3 years ago and 2 of them are failing. It seems that when they handle heavy network traffic the leds on the ports go out and eventually the unit reboots and works again, does this sound like bad capacitors?
Definitely try replacing just the power adaptors first. Network load means CPU load, CPU load means power load, power load means power drops if the capacitors' capacity is much smaller than nominal.

- the original units are running routerOS 6.28 and the replacement units are on routerOS 6.43.12, does this impact using backup or export?
it does in terms that the newer ROS will have to convert the configuration from the old format to the new one. Upgrade from 6.28 to 6.43 includes several major changes so I wouldn't dare to do that in a single step, I would take the last release within each third 6.xx between 6.28 and 6.43 or so and upgrade the old units all the way to the 6.43.12 if you want all conversions to be done automatically and minimize the risk of incorrect conversion. Of course first do both backup and export into files and download the files to a PC before starting the journey.

- i have read that backup should only be used on the same model and routerOS version so this may not be my best choice
Even worse, never restore a backup on another device than the one where it was saved, even on the same model. It includes even MAC addresses so all kinds of surprises happen when you restore it elsewhere.

- will using the /export commands be the best choice? What settings does export not include?
Yes, definitely. Use /export without hide-sensitive and without verbose. If you want, you may even try to import it manually section by section from 6.28 to 6.43 if you are not afraid of converting from "master port" to "bridge" this way - it's a more intellectual effort than 10 upgrades in a row.

While importing manually, it is important to properly handle the collisions before or during the process, i.e either export the default configuration of 6.43.12 and copy only commands modifying it from the exported real configuration. If you decide to import automatically, add the waiting loop for interfaces to become visible to the beginning of the exported file, there are several topics regarding this issue here.

You can see a related code in /system default-configuration print output, but basically you get the same effect if you just place :delay 2m to the beginning of the .rsc file.

To import the file automatically (only if it is already in 6.43.12 format and only after adding the delay to its beginning):
  • iupload the file to the RB450's disk and reboot; if it remains available after the machine comes up again, you can proceed, otherwise you have to upload it with a flash/ before the name (some models need this, I don't know whether the RB450 is one of them)
  • once you know that the file survives a reboot, do /system reset-configuration keep-users=yes run-after-reset=the-name-of-your-export and "skip all the warnings" :)
The export doesn't contain user accounts (which cannot be exported at all) and certificates. Certificates have to be exported separately using /certificate export-certificate; for those which belong to the machine itself and therefore include private keys, you have to provide a passphrase, otherwise the private key will not be exported (without any warning) and the export becomes useless. For pkcs12, the certificate and the key are both in a single file, for pem, each is in its own (.pem and .key).
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
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krafg
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:00 pm

Anyway if you want to replace these old RB450G that are fantastic (I have two of them) I prefer to go to newer products. I replaced my RB450G for a PowerBox Pro because I have a much power supplies and is more comfortable for me migrate to a device that you can mount it on a mast, outdoor, with PoE capabilities, and why not, more powerfull CPU with SFP port.

The most important is the most comfortable for you.

Regards.
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Jrod8033
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Thank you sindy & krafg for your responses. I have to keep the RB450G models because that is what the OEM installed at this site and I cannot change the model.

I wanted to give you some detailed information. The OEM uses a VBScript program that we use to upload a .ini file to the router using this script that I assume is flashing the router with the IP, Firewall filters, interfaces, etc using this .ini file it must be making a file that it flashes the router with.

I believe as you have said that there are major changes in Router OS commands from version 6.28 to 6.43.12 and some of the commands that the VBScript is using are not valid for the newer software revisions, When I try to flash the 6.43.12 router i see differences on how interfaces are handled just for starters that prevents the login to the router afterwards.

I cannot ask the OEM for an upgraded version of this VBScript because of proprietary reasons and the chances of me editing the VBScript is not really a option :(

I have copies of the export contents from the original RB450G with version 6.28 and the export of the new version 6.43.12 RB450G and even I can notice the differences in the /Interfaces,. is this the difference you were talking about ? masterport vs bridged,

Is it possible to use the /export information from version 6.28 and manually use /Import on the version 6.43.12 model, or is there a lot of conversions/changes that have to be done for it to work in regards to the interfaces and firewall rules and other commands that makes this method unrealistic?

if I need to go the upgrade the original router one major update at a time (taking the precautions you mentioned) then i would do an export and then manually Import to the 6.43.12 router and hopefully all the commands would have been converted/upgraded during each major update?

Sorry for all the questions, I really appreciate your help. I do have the export files and the VBScript files if you want to see them, maybe I would have to PM to you because I am not sure of your rules. Thanks again.
 
anav
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:35 am

Not sure why you wouldn't want to use the RGB450Gx4. A very nice upgrade!
As for the vb script, its obsolete if it means you have to use older firmwares of OS which are vulnerable to exploits.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
Jrod8033
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:57 am

Thank you to everyone

i am going to go with upgrading the RB450G up to release 6.43.12.
is the routeros-mipsbe.npk the file I should use to upgrade the RB450G? dumb question, do i use the stable or long term release?

You mentioned
I would take the last release within each third 6.xx between 6.28 and 6.43 or so and upgrade the old units all the way to the 6.43.12 if you want all conversions to be done automatically and minimize the risk of incorrect conversion


If i choose the long term releases are you saying that I can upgrade using every 3rd major release (last one in that series)?

I also read that Release 6.41 is the one that converted master ports to bridge ports, is it important that I update to this release, or is updating to release 6.40.9 from release 6.37.5 in my example below sufficient?

example, i would upgrade
6.30.1
6.32.4
6.37.5
6.40.9
6.42.12
6.43.12


LONG TERM RELEASE TREE
Release 6.30.1
Release 6.30.2
Release 6.30.4
Release 6.32.3
Release 6.32.4
Release 6.34.5
Release 6.34.6
Release 6.36.4
Release 6.37.4
Release 6.37.5
Release 6.38.7
Release 6.39.3
Release 6.40.6
Release 6.40.7
Release 6.40.8
Release 6.40.9
Release 6.42.9
Release 6.42.10
Release 6.42.11
Release 6.42.12
Release 6.43.12 (from the Stable release list)
 
sindy
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:58 pm

i am going to go with upgrading the RB450G up to release 6.43.12.
is the routeros-mipsbe.npk the file I should use to upgrade the RB450G? dumb question, do i use the stable or long term release?
For any RB4xx except RG450Gx4, mipsbe is the correct architecture, so yes, routeros-mipsbe-v.vv.vv.npk is the right file to download.
The question is not so dumb - e.g. 6.43.12 is the last 6.43 to be released as stable before 6.44 became stable, but some bugfix releases of 6.43 were released afterwards when it was already considered long-term. So all the way until 6.43, use the newest long-term as this is where the latest subversion of each large release can be found; for 6.43, I'm not really sure why should you use 6.43.12 given that 6.43.16 is available.

You mentioned
I would take the last release within each third 6.xx between 6.28 and 6.43 or so and upgrade the old units all the way to the 6.43.12 if you want all conversions to be done automatically and minimize the risk of incorrect conversion

If i choose the long term releases are you saying that I can upgrade using every 3rd major release (last one in that series)?
It is what I would do. I don't say it is guaranteed to be safe. You may have to netinstall at some stage if something goes wrong, that's why I say to do a backup and store it externally. Maybe doing a backup after each successful upgrade step would be even better.

I also read that Release 6.41 is the one that converted master ports to bridge ports, is it important that I update to this release, or is updating to release 6.40.9 from release 6.37.5 in my example below sufficient?
So what you are actually asking is whether 6.43.12 (which is three master versions newer than 6.40.9) will convert the bridge configuration from pre-6.41 into 6.41+ properly. I would say yes but would nevertheless store the backup of the 6.40.9 before trying so that I could eventually downgrade back, restore the upgrade, and upgrade to 6.42.last if the upgrade to 6.43.16 (or 6.43.12 if you insist) failed.
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
sindy
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:13 pm

Thank you sindy & krafg for your responses. I have to keep the RB450G models because that is what the OEM installed at this site and I cannot change the model.
Have you tried to replace only the power adaptors as I've suggested?

I wanted to give you some detailed information. The OEM uses a VBScript program that we use to upload a .ini file to the router using this script that I assume is flashing the router with the IP, Firewall filters, interfaces, etc using this .ini file it must be making a file that it flashes the router with.

I believe as you have said that there are major changes in Router OS commands from version 6.28 to 6.43.12 and some of the commands that the VBScript is using are not valid for the newer software revisions, When I try to flash the 6.43.12 router i see differences on how interfaces are handled just for starters that prevents the login to the router afterwards.

I cannot ask the OEM for an upgraded version of this VBScript because of proprietary reasons and the chances of me editing the VBScript is not really a option :(
I'm not sure I understand. Do you frequently reconfigure the RB450s using that VB script or what? You said you have four of them which need replacement, but you haven't mentioned a need to use the VB script after the replacement. The point is that you cannot safely load 6.28 into a machine which came with a newer software because there may be hardware changes which require newer firmware to work. So if you need to use the VB script to reconfigure the replacement (new) machine, it simply won't work. And downgrading the last surviving 450 to 6.28 each time you would want to generate a configuration for another one and then taking all the upgrade path is much more burden than to substitute the VB script by your own one. Can you post the existing configration (see my automatic signature below for hints on anonymisation) to illustrate what complexity of configiration we talk about here?
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
Jrod8033
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Re: RB450G failing need to replace

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:26 am

Thank You Sindy, sorry for the delay

I upgraded one of the Routers that we pulled last year that was starting to fail from routerOS 6.28 up to 6.45.3 using the steps you outlined. I saved backups and /exports as you suggested and all the updates seemed to install properly. I will up do the same update on the installed units eventually once I get the correct method working.

Yes, I did replace the power supply on the installed unit in question. When I was onsite the other night and was connected via winbox collecting data, screenshots and exporting the configurations at least 3 times in about 30 minutes all the port leds went out and I lost connection, the blue power led stayed lit. If I waited after about 5-7 minutes the router would restart.

You are correct about using the Vbscript, I have abandoned trying to use this method for applying any configurations for the reasons you outlined about security and the reliance on older/outdated router software/firmware. I would not usually have to setup new routers, it just that out of 8 of these RB450G units, 3 have failed since being installed by another company in 2016. But with everyone’s assistance I am learning the correct method of exporting/importing information and I hope to be able to manually upgrade each unit up to v6.45.3 and save some configurations using the /export method.

I will upload the /export file on Wednesday when I am on site, I really appreciate this forum and everyone’s willingness to help.

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