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7zki
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When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:56 am

A long time ago, there was the sound of perfecting ipv6 modules in the forum. It has been nearly six or seven years in an instant, and many functions are still lacking.

ipv6 nat, policy route, routing mark, and many other functions are completely absent.

I tried opnsense, pfsense and vyos, edgeos, and finally I returned to routeros. when can you add these functions? Five years? Or longer?
 
7zki
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:02 am

I am a huge fan of routeros. My house uses a full set of Mikrooik equipment, and under my recommendation, my friends also use Mikrooik products.
The company that works now also uses mikrotik's products, and I really hope you can improve router os.
 
pe1chl
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:14 am

From what I understand, IPv6 is a low priority for MikroTik. Apparently the segment where they are working has little application for IPv6, or at least their customers make little demand for it at their sales department.
So while there are the usual bugfixes and the occasional new feature, the major overhaul of features like you describe is unlikely to happen soon.

That being said, the usual promise when asking for new features is that "it will all happen in RouterOS v7".
We can hope that when (if?) that is finally released, there will be some new IPv6 features as well. Or they could be added relatively soon in a v7.x version.

All we can do is wait patiently.... already for many years, as you rightly say. The latest I hear was that the first v7 version could appear this year, but that was early in the year and as it is august by now and nothing has happened, of course chances that it again will slip become higher and higher.
 
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normis
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:19 am

their customers make little demand for it at their sales department.
This here. The best way to get something, is to ask your distributor.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
pe1chl
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:44 am

I have repeatedly asked for more IPv6 functionality here on the forum and also on MUM events. The above is what I heard there.
Do you think it is worth it to go to the trouble of asking the same question to the distributor where I usually buy things so it comes to MikroTik via that channel as well?
It would probably be more effective when someone else calls them, asks if MikroTik has good IPv6 functionality, and then they lose the sale because it hasn't.
A report about that has likely more weight than from someone who already has bought equipment but wants to use it more effectively.

(like @7zki, I need IPv6 features that are needed in a 2-ISP load balancing/failover scenario with 2 static /48 nets from the ISPs, running full BGP on portable address space is not an option)
 
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normis
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:49 am

Yes, when multiple distributors ask for something, it could bump the priority quicker than just a forum topic.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:29 pm

Why are requests from distributors prioritized over end users? Distributor is only useful for purchasing and RMA, I never would think to contact them with RouterOS requests or support.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:33 pm

MikroTik doesn't really have direct customers, distributors are the only ones buying something, and only distributors can realistically assess which features are most used or requested.
It may come as a surprise, but the Forum here is a tiny fraction of actual MikroTik users, which sometimes use the devices for entirely different purposes and rarely seek help in the online community.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
pe1chl
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:06 pm

My main distributor is selling a lot of different makes of routers and other network equipment, and they also provide consultancy etc. They provide a limited selection from the product gamma.
I think when I ask them about IPv6 and MikroTik their reaction is likely to be "we do not advise MikroTik in cases where advanced IPv6 is required but rather brand XXXXX" and they never report that to you.
So you then think "there is little demand for IPv6" but in reality that business is going to other manufacturers, on which the distributor maybe also has more margin.
This is where I buy routers for work, and what this requirement is for. Another use of MikroTik equipment is for my hobby, and most of that is bought via the wellknown cheap distributor in Poland.
I'm not sure if they would want to go through the effort to provide this "requirement forwarding service" either.

So my only chance would be to find a friendly employee at the distributor who would want to forward a request from me to you.
In that case I might as well post it here or ask it at a MUM.
Relying on demand from distributors is always a bit dangerous when you want to survive in the market.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:19 pm

While the forum may be a tiny part of overall customers, it likely represents the most dedicated Mikrotik ones who take the time to find the forum and register etc.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:36 pm

A long time ago, there was the sound of perfecting ipv6 modules in the forum. It has been nearly six or seven years in an instant, and many functions are still lacking.

ipv6 nat, policy route, routing mark, and many other functions are completely absent.

I tried opnsense, pfsense and vyos, edgeos, and finally I returned to routeros. when can you add these functions? Five years? Or longer?
Currently, there is no compelling business case for IPv6 other than from the tech community. When applications become available that serve business needs that have a heavy reliance on P2P communications then ipv6 will create a strong demand for adoption --- that day is coming very soon [within 3 years] because of the proliferation of smart devices and improving infrastructure especially in G20 nations. Lots of work is currently taking place and most ISP that I am familiar with are getting ready --- the BIG push will be as soon as 5G takes hold especially in the USA and the rest of the G7 ..... I am aware that many billions of DOLLARS [as a global currency] are currently committed to 5G and the roll-out starts this fall in the USA and CANADA .... some European Nations have already begun but the most influential nation is the USA and when that starts everyone else will follow quickly in relative terms.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:56 pm

Currently, there is no compelling business case for IPv6 other than from the tech community. When applications become available that serve business needs that have a heavy reliance on P2P communications then ipv6 will create a strong demand for adoption --- that day is coming very soon [within 3 years] because of the proliferation of smart devices
I don't think so. The idea that everything has to communicate with everything in peer-to-peer fashion has been abandoned long ago when it was found tha this leads to enormous security problems.
Today, smart devices connect to some central server where the users also connect to see their own device's state. This works "from any network" also over NAT, behind firewalls, etc.
Even the use of special protocols and associated ports has been mostly abandoned, everything uses just https (port 443) so it is not being blocked by overzealous administrators.

However, there is still a case for IPv6. And it is not used only by the tech community, on the WiFi networks I run where mostly phones do connect, about 60% of all traffic is IPv6 (so the majority!).
Of course it is mostly to servers operated by Google, Facebook, etc.
 
7zki
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:52 pm

A long time ago, there was the sound of perfecting ipv6 modules in the forum. It has been nearly six or seven years in an instant, and many functions are still lacking.

ipv6 nat, policy route, routing mark, and many other functions are completely absent.

I tried opnsense, pfsense and vyos, edgeos, and finally I returned to routeros. when can you add these functions? Five years? Or longer?
Currently, there is no compelling business case for IPv6 other than from the tech community. When applications become available that serve business needs that have a heavy reliance on P2P communications then ipv6 will create a strong demand for adoption --- that day is coming very soon [within 3 years] because of the proliferation of smart devices and improving infrastructure especially in G20 nations. Lots of work is currently taking place and most ISP that I am familiar with are getting ready --- the BIG push will be as soon as 5G takes hold especially in the USA and the rest of the G7 ..... I am aware that many billions of DOLLARS [as a global currency] are currently committed to 5G and the roll-out starts this fall in the USA and CANADA .... some European Nations have already begun but the most influential nation is the USA and when that starts everyone else will follow quickly in relative terms.

Thank you for your reply, I am from China, China's ipv6 is developing very fast this year. The telecom operator has assigned me an ipv6 address. It is very fast in China and can reach 500Mbps.

However, the speed of connecting to foreign countries is very slow. Many of the software I use currently use ipv6 connections by default, such as windows 10 package manager scoop, firefox browser, and more software, which are used by default during download and use. Ipv6, the experience is very poor.

I want to build a network proxy connected to the Japanese server ipv6 on the home Ubuntu server. The router os forwards all non-China ipv6 connections to this Ubuntu server.

However, these features are not supported by the Router os ipv6 module.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:34 pm

The idea that everything has to communicate with everything in peer-to-peer fashion has been abandoned long ago when it was found tha this leads to enormous security problems.
Or because it's simply not possible with NATs everywhere. Half of users don't have public IPv4 addresses at all, and the significant part of the other half is too lazy or incompetent to configure anything. So everything is "in cloud" now and everyone seems to be happy. It looks like we don't even need IPv6 anymore, just look, the mighty cloud works even behing ten NATs!

The whole idea, that people need to ask for it, doesn't work for IPv6. Regular people don't have a clue what's IPv6 and what it does. Do they need it? Will it make Facebook faster? No? Then they probably won't bother their ISP to get it, will they? ISPs' excuse was that people don't have routers that support it. Router manufacturers had for a long time the same excluse, people don't want it, because their ISPs don't offer it. And the whole thing is only very slowly moving from deadly loop it was stuck in for many years. Microsoft, the company that people always made fun of, how they are lacking in networking, they enabled IPv6 in Windows by default in Vista, in 2006. Sure, it took a while before the new version spread, but few years later the vast majority of end users was ready for IPv6. Then there was World IPv6 Launch in 2012, when Google & friends officially added AAAA records for their services. And now, in 2019, if I ask average ISP about IPv6, for half of them the response will be "sorry, we don't have it and no plans either", often with the usual "there's no demand". "But hey, if you want addresses, no problem, public IPv4, just few $/month each, that's great, ain't it?" And for those who do have it, there's no guarantee that their offer won't suck ("one dynamic /64 must be enough for everyone"). Oh well... rant over.
People who quote full posts should be spanked with ethernet cable. Some exceptions for multi-topic threads may apply.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:03 am

Microsoft, the company that people always made fun of, how they are lacking in networking, they enabled IPv6 in Windows by default in Vista, in 2006.
But it took them until this year to enable it on their own cloud services... All articles on IPv6 on Azure cloud are dated in the past 3 monts, it seems.
Otherwise, I agree with you. Note that when IPv6 was invented, the techs claimed that this was required to give every device a unique address or else devices
would not be able to communicate with eachother. Examples were the mobile phones (that did not really exist at that time) that would require billions of new
addresses. But later it was discovered that devices really do not need to communicate with eachother, and we do not even want that!
And the mobile providers ironically are amongst the last to enable IPv6 on their networks.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:47 am

It will be another load of fun if we ever decide that we actually want direct communication. Because unless something changed, recommendation for default router config (home devices and such) was to block new incoming connections from internet. So you will have devices all with public addresses, but nothing will be able to connect to them anyway. In theory, it could be controlled from internal device using something like UPnP, and there's actually a thing called PCP (Port Control Protocol) made for this, but the support for it is about zero everywhere. Even if it would catch on eventually, it would take years. So right now it looks like we're doomed to depend on "cloud" forever.
People who quote full posts should be spanked with ethernet cable. Some exceptions for multi-topic threads may apply.
 
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Re: When can developers improve ipv6 functionality?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:17 pm

It will be another load of fun if we ever decide that we actually want direct communication. Because unless something changed, recommendation for default router config (home devices and such) was to block new incoming connections from internet. So you will have devices all with public addresses, but nothing will be able to connect to them anyway. In theory, it could be controlled from internal device using something like UPnP, and there's actually a thing called PCP (Port Control Protocol) made for this, but the support for it is about zero everywhere. Even if it would catch on eventually, it would take years. So right now it looks like we're doomed to depend on "cloud" forever.
Direct communication is coming plus AI driven routers is coming --- I have no idea if MikroTik are doing any AI work but I know that ALL USA based manufacturers [like CISCO] are plus Huawei --- 5G will change everything. Huawei is a threat from a security perspective but that may be solved once China succumbs to US demands for intellectual property. Huawei AI is far more advanced than anyone else in the world that I am aware off so THAT could become the new battle ground not only in technical terms but in actual conflict because so much is at stake .. look out for the resurrection of Attila the HUN :lol:

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