Hi,
I am currently using an audio grade network switch, "Sotm sNH-10G", at home. It has 8 gigabit ethernet ports as well as 2 SPF modules. I only connected my hifi audio devices to this switch.
In addition to these devices, I have different electronic equipments(Smart TVs, Home Fiber Router/Internet, satellite receiver, Media Server, NAS etc.) all of which should be connected to each other by another network switch. Therefore, I have been using a standard unmanaged switch for over 5 years. I am planning to replace it with a new switch which is fanless and has low noise floor. It should also support both optical and gigabit ethernet networks. I'd prefer using an external Linear Power Supply to feed it. Therefore, it had better not use internal power supply.

When I search for different products which may meet these requirements, I found out two devices, one of which does not support external power supply. The first one ise Mikrotik RB260GSP. The other one is Ubiquiti Unifi us-8-150 switch which is fanless and has low noise floor(but uses internal power supply). Silence, low energy consumption, low noise floor, better package timing, less jitter is more important than anything for my purpose.

As I am new to both Mikrotik and Ubiquiti staff, I would like to hear your advices, experiences especially about audio-centric models fo home network(both optical and ethernet).

Powering these devices by an external non-switching PSU is not worth the hassle IMO.
Nearly every device has additional switching power regulators inside to step down the 9 to 28 volts input voltage to a usable 5 or 3.3 volts.

Thus “Noise" is being generated anyways.

I recommend to read http://archimago.blogspot.com/?m=1 to debunk some audiophile myths.

Hi, did you see this one?

https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS326-24G-2SplusRM

Completely silent, external power supply (very little one) and PoE-In support. Also bigger than the ones you found (is that an issue?).

Thank you for the good laugh with "audio grade network switch". I needed that.

Thank you for the good laugh with "audio grade network switch". I needed that.

I believe in what I really hear. The audio fact is that,
The less the jitter is, the better sound(with better imaging, seperation) you will hear. It is all about reducing jitter as low as possible and provide noise free communication(prevent packet resends..)

I don;t know your switching requirements, but RB4011 is also a good candidate.
10 x 1G port + 1 SFP+ port ( exists also with Wifi)!

Fanless design, no noise, external power supply.

You can get rid of your other router and have all in one piece...

It only gets quit hot, so better not put it into a small closet if you run it full steam with lot of
other equipment together!

I believe in what I really hear. The audio fact is that,
The less the jitter is, the better sound(with better imaging, seperation) you will hear. It is all about reducing jitter as low as possible and provide noise free communication(prevent packet resends..)

What kind of audio format/protocol are you using since packet jitter is that sensitive?

RTP? Dante? AVB? Sonos?

Jitter in Networking usually has no impact in audio jitter as these clocks are totally separated.

Audio is usually kept in a ring buffer which is being fed from the network .

Only if there is no sufficient audio data to keep the buffer filled there might be an audible gap.

But there won't be jitter on your DAC due to networking issues. That's a myth.

There's a whole industry based around selling "high end audio" versions of digital equipment for 10-100x normal price. There's no point trying to convince audiophiles that digital signals are not distorted like analogue, they'll always say it "sounds better" because they spent more money on it!

lmao @ the 'audiophile switch'
It takes a special kind of ignorance and lack of willingness to understand how things actually work to buy into that crap

@OP if you don't want to believe it, go and look into ethernet actually works, how packet flow and processing works etc and you'll realize it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever
Infact the only way it could even possibly make any sort of difference at all is to break ethernet standards and be incompatible with any other network great out there that follows those standards (i.e. practically all of it) and ultimately for no good reason at all

I believe in what I really hear. The audio fact is that,
The less the jitter is, the better sound(with better imaging, seperation) you will hear. It is all about reducing jitter as low as possible and provide noise free communication(prevent packet resends..)

I imagine you are aware of how audio data is transmitted over a network. Unless you are talking about some AES/EBU cross connect, audio is not transmitted as individual samples but fixed length packets. If your equipment is interconnected using AES/EBU or the consumer counterpart (S/PDIF) you may benefit from Wordclock synchronization. And I say may because most clock recovery mechanisms are really good.

Now, audio over TCP/IP? There is absolutely no way that your network equipment or cables can affect it as long as packets arrive on time. Esoteric power supplies for network equipment? I am sorry to be blunt, but you have been scammed.

Jitter can certainly be a problem in digital audio. But only for the A/D and D/A converters. If your D/A converter is good and it has a good quality clock that's all that matters. I assume that the music you listen to has been recorded with proper professional equipment which features really low jitter clocks. If the original recording has problems, however, there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it.

I know there are scammers selling audiophile grade Ethernet cable and optical fibre costing even thousands of dollars. Their approach to sell their snake oil is the "salami fraud". They reason that when you spend a certain amount of money on expensive audio equipment, a percentage should go to cables. So, for example, if you are spending €1000 on a CD player you should budget €100 "audiophile grade" audio and power cables.

Now, there are good and bad quality cables. But outstanding quality, professional grade microphone cable (which is the most critical especially when used in long runs) can cost €10 a metre. And I'm talking about a thick star-quad cable for long runs in live concerts.

Posting here just for fun. The last one that got me laughing so hard were the "audio SATA cables".

Let me see...
Popcorn
Beer
Getting comfy...

Let the game begins.

There will be no DC noise, ground loops or EMI reaching your audio devices when you'll use an optical network cable.

I am planning to connect this new switch to SOTM snh-10g (https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/engli ... m/snh-10g/) with an optical cable. But the devices will be connected to this switch with ethernet CAT7 cables.
Dac(Devialet 220 pro) and audio streamer are currently connected to SOTM SNH-10G with Supra CAT8 cables.

As I am new to both Mikrotik and Ubiquiti staff, I would like to hear your advices, experiences especially about audio-centric models fo home network(both optical and ethernet).

Joking apart.

You need a switch.
Noise floor doesn't make sense here: it doesn't exist in the world of network packets. Really. The audio files, to the switch, are an abstraction - a single queue of bits being transferred. Noise floor starts making sense once the bits get into the a/d converter. Not before.

Now. You want a switch that has gigabit capabilities. It needs to have enough ports to get all your devices connected. Maybe You want it to have one or two 10Gb ports.

I would say the CSS326-24G-2S+RM (https://mikrotik.com/product/CSS326-24G-2SplusRM) fits the bill. It has passive cooling - so, zero dB noise. It is certified to work up to 70 Celsius degrees ambient temperature and has 24 gigabit ports plus two 10Gb (SFP+ fiber) ports.

This switch is wirespeed - that means it can handle all the ports passing 100% of the nominal capacity. I can guarantee You that personal audio traffic will not make a scratch on this kind of capacity.

The power input is anything, from 10 to 30V DC - and the power source is external. If You feel inclined, it is possible to use a linear power source with it - but it is useless. Due to the way the network works (ugh, that was ugly), it will not make a difference.

By the way: ALL switches (switches, NAS, HDs, SSDs, CPUs...) use switching power. Is is needed, in order to get the voltage stable enough to the circuits inside. A linear power source doesn't have this ability - it is inherent to the way it works. Yes, the external power brick is (could be) linear, no doubt. But NOT the internal voltage regulator.

If it make You feel better: this switch (as all the switches sold by Mikrotik) do the switching in hardware. This is quite fast, with extremely low jitter. Not that jitter would matter, at this low level: it will be buffered out, way before the a/d converter gets into play.

Thanks for the reply. There are several different solutions to convert internal switching power supply to external LPS. One of them for Mac Mini is https://uptoneaudio.com/products/mac-mi ... er-kit-mmk. Most people , in audiophile community, either buy fanless NAS or modify the NAS by using a similar method(if they prefer going with the "NAS path"). A man passionate about building a DIY silent , audiophile grade Music server by choosing the best possible components to obtain best possible audio experience--> https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topi ... in-2-days/. He is trying new things and constantly modifying it for better. Most people believe and see/HEAR that clean power source, and high quality power cables make a significant improvement on both digital and analog domain for audio. We'll keep trying and always try to find/choose best possible hardwares for this purpose considering our budget constraints..

From the mac mini mod: "Blacker backgrounds, better dynamics and voices are so realistic it's almost scary!"
And the switch you mentioned in the first post, Sotm sNH-10G, 800$ for a 10 (8+2) port DUMB (unmanaged) gigabit switch?
The killer there are the cables, 1.5M patch - 500$
What are you audophiles smoking?

Don't make fun of true audiophiles if you can't hear the difference between tones A4 and A#4 ... everybody knows that one needs better than PPM frequency base for DAC to produce truly audiophile sound because trained ear can tell if the frequency of a A4 tone is off by more than 1Hz (A4 is exactly 440Hz) ...

Anyway, Thanks everyone for the advices , for sharing your opinions(especially for CSS326-24G-2S+RM). It seems to be a little more complicated than I think for home network. I think I am going to choose Ubiquiti Unifi us-8-150w for my home network . Maybe I can change it in the future again. And I will make an optical connection between these switches.

It is a little bit annoying and seems to be a waste of time to discuss audiophile issues with people who have biased opinions and have very little knowledge about the audiophile setups. Therefore I do not reply to those who try to make fun of it.

Don't go, please!
We don't have too many fun topics around here.
Please stay

Don't go, please!
We don't have too many fun topics around here.
Please stay

Let's call your parents and let them take you. You not only need to sleep more but also need to read more to grow up and become a mature individual..

But, here's what I don't get, you have already one of these "Sotm sNH-10G" which you like.
Why don't you get more of them for your TV's and everything else? You know, to have audiophile-grade Netflix and HBO and whatever too.
Why settle for switches that are 4 to 10 times cheaper than that one?

Technically, Mikrotik or Ubiquiti switches are probably better(with higher throughput values,pps values with faster CPUs etc.) than all audio-related, "audiophile" switches. I still need technically good devices. I am not only listening music on my network!! But for audio, my priorities are different.

Therefore, I still need to choose a technically good switch. Considering this fact, at least, I want my choice to be as silent as possible,has more flexibility for power source(if possible), has enough Gbit Ethernet ports, has enough ports for SFP. That's all I want. It shouldn't be so difficult to understand!!

Technically, Mikrotik or Ubiquiti switches are probably better(with higher throughput values,pps values with faster CPUs etc.) than all audio-related, "audiophile" switches. I still need technically good devices. I am not only listening music on my network!! But for audio, my priorities are different.

Therefore, I still need to choose a technically good switch. Considering this fact, at least, I want my choice to be as silent as possible,has more flexibility for power source(if possible), has enough Gbit Ethernet ports, has enough ports for SFP. That's all I want. It shouldn't be so difficult to understand!!

What? You just want a plain switch? Why didn't You say sooner? Get the CSS326. 24 gigabit ports, 2 SFP+ ports, passive cooling (0dB), external power supply and a good price to match.

After the purchase, do a double blind test. There will be no difference from it and the "Audiophile Level" switch You have.

But remember: double blind. And keep communication between the one changing the switches and the one talking to You to a minimum. Zero, iff possible. I don't know: a buzzer, to tell the one talking to you that the change was done? Whatever. Double blind.

You wallet will thank you. Or not, as this will mean more money around to spend where it makes a difference: amplifier, preamp, equalizer, A/D converter...

What? You just want a plain switch? Why didn't You say sooner?

He said so right from the start.
Why do you think most of us are having fun here.

What? You just want a plain switch? Why didn't You say sooner?

He said so right from the start.
Why do you think most of us are having fun here.

Well, I though he wanted to use one new switch, instead of both old ones.
Otherwise "noise floor" wouldn't make sense. Would it?

Although is an "audiophile setup". No sense is required.

BUT, but..
If he uses the 1000$ wonder switch audiophile quality for them TVs/ Netflix, imagine how the colors and everything on those movies will be, if it does so many wonders for audio.
Or if simply browsing this forum, imagine the layouts and everything that we're not seeing while using our cheap switches.
I can only imagine, JPGs with quality restored.. he's one of the lucky ones..
I wouldn't give up on that...
I'm sure those 500$ patch cords are worth it too. 1.5m of pure zeroes and ones trough those wires....

I'm sure those 500$ patch cords are worth it too. 1.5m of pure zeroes and ones trough those wires....

No, no, thats the thing. There's a big difference between and 1's and 0's. Those audiophile grade cables will tweak them just right so that you get -0.0023's and 1.0067's instead = higher dynamic range. It can also use numbers in between 1's and 0's. Thats how you get a far better gradient and you can restore 'lost quality' in the digital conversion because true digital only uses 1's and 0's, fine for data but totally ruins audio and video, a total waste of the capacity that only a $500 cable can realize

The problem is however when you pass a 1.00067 through a normal switch it will just clip it to 1.0 flat, so OF COURSE you need an audiophile grade switch that can understand the higher dynamic range and flow the bits correctly. Of course order and jitter matter because if you have a 1.00067 flow right next to a 0.99933 a bit too closely they can cancel each other out and limit you to standard definition content. So thats why you need a flux combulation modulator at exactly 11.000073342khz to rectify the signalwave's at exactly the right harmonic that interfaces with the ID-10-T input device operating it

It is a little bit annoying and seems to be a waste of time to discuss audiophile issues with people who have biased opinions

You doesn't need an audiophile switch in the first place. Clean DC power is the most effective way to improve sound quality. Do not believe in every thing audiophile experts say. From my experience in audiophile community - they have highly biased opinions too.
You will be fine with a quiet gigabit switch with sfp+ (10gbit to connect switches together) ports and external power adapter. Just use your favorite low-noise power source to power it and/or use optical cables (you could use a non-expensive ones) to connect your devices.

Technically, Mikrotik or Ubiquiti switches are probably better(with higher throughput values,pps values with faster CPUs etc.) than all audio-related, "audiophile" switches. I still need technically good devices. I am not only listening music on my network!! But for audio, my priorities are different.

Therefore, I still need to choose a technically good switch. Considering this fact, at least, I want my choice to be as silent as possible,has more flexibility for power source(if possible), has enough Gbit Ethernet ports, has enough ports for SFP. That's all I want. It shouldn't be so difficult to understand!!

Alright, not trying to poke fun at you. But there are some issues you clearly don't understand about digital audio transmission. Honestly, trying to help!

In a packet switched audio transmission, the only clocks that are relevant to audio quality are the ADC and DAC clocks. The rest are completely irrelevant. No matter you transmit the audio packets through fibre, copper, radio, or you print out an hex dump which you mail to a different location to be scanned and OCRd. As long as there are no errors, the result is the same.

The advantage of digital recording media is, as long as you read the bits correctly there is absolutely no degradation between copies. No noise will be added.

So, what is a good quality switch?

First and foremost: manageable. If problems arise, a manageable switch will allow you to at least find out what's going on. Forget with an unmanageable toy like that modded D-Link you mention.

Now, two books you will find enlightening. These are serious books with hard facts.

1- The Art of Digital Audio by John Watkinson

2- Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science by Bob Katz.

Both have very good explanations of the clock jitter induced issues and, especially, when clock mismatches are irrelevant.

Hi,
Thank you for your answer and recommendations. I will consider them. By the way, this switch has 10 MHz master clock input connector so that it can be synchronized with the ADC, DAC by a high precision master clock generator hardware(if The ADC and DAC is also fed by the same master clock).

Hi,
Thank you for your answer and recommendations. I will consider them. This switch has 10 MHz master clock input connector so that it can be synchronized with the ADC, DAC by a high precision master clock generator hardware(if The ADC and DAC is also fed by the same master clock).

I think you are confused about Wordclock? It's used in professional settings for multi track equipment but it's useless in a household environment.
And unless your clock distribution is really good, it may make clock synchronization worse. And ADC and DAC clocking *only* matter if you are,
for example, sampling analog audio (say, a microphone at a recording studio), doing some processing and playing it back on your monitors.

And yet Wordclock at a recording studio is fed to converters, not Ethernet switches. Any clock inside the switch will be irrelevant!

The only issue I can imagine is, poorly designed audio equipment by people clueless about digital circuitry letting noise and interference
from the network ports reach the analog circuitry.