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jasons6930
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Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:16 pm

Hi guys,

Currently running a 4011 that is now full.

Trying to browse what router/switch units there are and quite frankly, i'm lost.

:D

Therefore, could someone recommend a r/s to step up from the 4011?

Probably don't need to go more than 16 port, and preferably fanless.

Thanks!
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:28 pm

There is no such product.
So, just buy a decent 16-24 port switch and continue using 4011 as a router.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:40 pm

Not enough info. Do You need more ports? More bandwidth? Both?

Just above the RB4011 we have three options::

RB1100AHx4, CCR1009-7G-1C-PC and CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+PC
But they are quite different pieces of hardware, with (or without) SFP+ ports. Also the CCR don't have a switch chip, and the RB1100AHx4 has three of them - so It's not a good option if You want to use all ports on the same L2 segment.

Here is the product page. Pay attention to specs, block diagram and test results.
https://mikrotik.com/products/group/ethernet-routers

Post the use case here, so we can help You.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm

Thanks for the replies.

This is a standard small business set up with a few wired devices and access points.

I want to add a couple more access points, and possibly some other devices in the future, hence the reason for not really needing any more than 16 ports for the foreseeable future, and preferring to keep it all in one unit, mainly for space reasons.

I thought MT did a router/switch combo, but to be honest, i am quite confused by the model naming (and i am still very new to their products!)

No need for SFP, however, i would like to carry on with everything on the same L2 segment.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:40 pm

What's the bandwidth of your internet uplink?
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:53 pm

Thanks for the replies.

This is a standard small business set up with a few wired devices and access points.

I want to add a couple more access points, and possibly some other devices in the future, hence the reason for not really needing any more than 16 ports for the foreseeable future, and preferring to keep it all in one unit, mainly for space reasons.

I thought MT did a router/switch combo, but to be honest, i am quite confused by the model naming (and i am still very new to their products!)

No need for SFP, however, i would like to carry on with everything on the same L2 segment.
Some switches have routing capacity - but it is VERY low. I wouldn't recommend it to any link above 100Mbps. They switch at wirespeed, but are VERY weak routers. You already have one RB4011. That takes care of routing. I would just buy one switch, and connect everything on it.

If this is a basic usage, and no PoE needed, why not get one CRS326-24G? They come in two versions: desktop and rack. Their capabilities are exactly the same, only form factor is different.

https://mikrotik.com/product/crs326_24g_2s_in
https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS326-24G-2SplusRM

They are cheap, come with 24 gigabit ports, two SFP+ and are 100% passive cooled.
 
jasons6930
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:54 am

My current internet is 100/100 but will be upped to 3 or 500 next year.

As i said, i was hoping for an all in one due to space issues, but at that price for the switch, I will certainly give it some serious thought.

Excuse my ignorance, but could the recommended switch act as a router as well, so i could remove the 4011 completely or do i still need it for internet?
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 am

My current internet is 100/100 but will be upped to 3 or 500 next year.

As i said, i was hoping for an all in one due to space issues, but at that price for the switch, I will certainly give it some serious thought.

Excuse my ignorance, but could the recommended switch act as a router as well, so i could remove the 4011 completely or do i still need it for internet?
It can act as router. But don't expect more than 100Mbps of routing speed from it - maybe less.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:42 am

Hey jason6932,
You can check this out.
Comparing an Ethernet Switch vs. Router. While a community switch can join more than one gadgets and networks to increase the LAN, a router will can help you proportion a unmarried IP cope with amongst more than one community gadgets. If you've got got the want for greater connections, an Ethernet switch can be a better alternative over a hub.

Regards,
Mika Hawkins
Mika Hawkins
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:59 am

Excuse my ignorance, but could the recommended switch act as a router as well, so i could remove the 4011 completely or do i still need it for internet?
At most Mikrotik products, routing (L3 forwarding) is provided by CPU, whereas switching (L2 forwarding) can be provided in hardware (the cheaper the product the less of additonal L2 handling on top of mere forwarding can be done in hardware). Hence the switching throughput is wire-speed (for unicast traffic, everything that comes in via one interface is forwarded out via another and the throughput is only limited by the physical link speed on the egress interface), but the routing throughput depends on the CPU capability. In the products sold as switches, the routing capability is sufficient for the management traffic of the device itself, which is the required minimum, and anything above is a bonus.

Except some CRS3xx switches which support L3 forwarding, and even firewalling, in hardware in RouterOS 7, which is still a beta, none of the products can do wirespeed routing, and you always have to take into account the network topology and traffic matrix to choose an appropriate product. That's why I've asked about the uplink speed.

My current internet is 100/100 but will be upped to 3 or 500 next year.
As i said, i was hoping for an all in one due to space issues, but at that price for the switch, I will certainly give it some serious thought.
Think about some of the devices built around the IPQ-4018/9 SoC, such as hAP ac², wAP ac, or cAP ac. All of them can handle a 500 Gbit/s uplink, are physically small, and can be used as wireless APs. But you have to use one of their Ethernet ports to connect the ISP uplink and the other one to connect the switch - by using a single cable with VLANs between the switch and the router, you'd cap the sum of upload and download at 1 Gbit/s as each packet would have to get to the router and back through the same interface.

If you need some routing/firewalling also between various VLANs/subnets in your enterprise network, not just between the internal network as a whole and the internet, you have to calculate more. The hAP ac², although it has five Ethernet ports, has only 2 Gbit/s bandwidth between the switch module and the CPU, so engaging more ports won't give you more bandwidth for L3. And as soon as you start thinking about QoS handling (queueing the traffic and prioritizing it), the router's throughput will decrease too. The "test results" tables on the product page give you a good idea.
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:12 pm

Think about some of the devices built around the IPQ-4018/9 SoC, such as hAP ac², wAP ac, or cAP ac.
Only wAP ac LTE is IPQ-4018.
wAP ac is mipsbe, and hence not a competitor to the above ones.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:31 pm

wAP ac is mipsbe, and hence not a competitor to the above ones.
Right you are... shame on me for not checking for this.
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:45 pm

Right you are... shame on me for not checking for this.
No shame here: too many devices to remember all their specs.
And no distinctive pattern between names - generations - architecture.
As for this particular case: wAP ac2 LTE would be a more proper name, clearly indicating, that this a new generation of devices.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:44 pm

Thanks again everyone!

Must admit, i am still completely baffled by the product codes myself!

So, if i was to do away with the 4011 completely and replace it, which router is the equivalent or better, to go with the suggested switch?

Hap ac2 and just turn off the wifi as i have two access points already?
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:00 pm

So, if i was to do away with the 4011 completely and replace it, which router is the equivalent or better, to go with the suggested switch?

Hap ac2 and just turn off the wifi as i have two access points already?
Don't get misleaded - hAP ac²'s routing capability is two to three times lower than the one of the 4011 (and even more if you don't use any firewall/QoS so the link speed becomes the bottleneck), but it may nevertheless still exceed your needs and occupy less space than the 4011. The smaller mechanical dimensions would be the only reason for such a swap.

And yes, the wireless interfaces can be switched off.
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
jasons6930
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:20 pm

So, if i was to do away with the 4011 completely and replace it, which router is the equivalent or better, to go with the suggested switch?

Hap ac2 and just turn off the wifi as i have two access points already?
Don't get misleaded - hAP ac²'s routing capability is two to three times lower than the one of the 4011 (and even more if you don't use any firewall/QoS so the link speed becomes the bottleneck), but it may nevertheless still exceed your needs and occupy less space than the 4011. The smaller mechanical dimensions would be the only reason for such a swap.

And yes, the wireless interfaces can be switched off.
Yes, i don't use any QoS, or specific firewall rules, just the defaults.

With that, i guess i am better off keeping the 4011?
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:33 pm

With that, i guess i am better off keeping the 4011?
Yes, I'd say that. Just get a switch and job done.
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:06 pm

SFP to another switch
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:16 pm

Thanks all.

I have managed to have a sort out and so should be able to fit the IN version in the cabinet.

Just one more quick question, would there be a noticeable improvement in general performance leaving the 4011 for routing duties only and adding the separate switch?
 
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:29 pm

Yes the 4011 will beat the CPU of any CRS switch for routing.

Using a router to act as the gateway for LAN subnets and terminate the WAN as well as a switch for port density is a very reliable setup that has been used for over 20 years.

It's nice to be able to combine the functions together and the next generation of RouterOS software is starting to enable HW offload and make the CRS switches much more useful for routing and NAT but that software is probably not going to be ready for prod until 2021.
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:08 am

Thanks all.

I have managed to have a sort out and so should be able to fit the IN version in the cabinet.

Just one more quick question, would there be a noticeable improvement in general performance leaving the 4011 for routing duties only and adding the separate switch?
I have 2 4011 (acting as LAN router and WAN router) and they are connected to two CRS326-24G-2s++RM units.
As a router 4011 is very good and I have a 500/100 and at full load to internet I use about 5 % of the CPU and when running backup jobs internally I more or less push 1 Gbit on several ports at the same time and the link speed of 1 Gbit is the limiting factor, not the CPU of the unit. Then switching is also link speed so no issues there.
My CRS switches could not provide this speed as they are switches. A switch would solve the issues for you by adding more ports.
 
jasons6930
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Re: Is there a router/switch to beat the 4011?

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:05 pm

Thanks all.

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