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rd228
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TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:09 pm

Hello,

I am looking to switch from BT to talktalk as I'm getting offered a better deal. Currently using an RB2011 as my main router with BT FTTP and it was easy enough to configure a PPPoE connection to get it working.

My current setup is fibre into the house connecting to a BT Fiber modem (ONT). Its then Ethernet from the modem to my Mikrotik to which I have a PPoE Interface configured on the Mikrotik with BTs details configured. TalkTalk say I would retain the BT ONT and they are just going to send me a new router to connect to the ethernet port of the fibre modem (ONT) BT fitted. However I don't want to use their router and want to retain my mikrotik.

TalkTalk setup isnt as simple by the look of it and I want to check this is going to be possible before I switch ISPs only to find out I cant use the Mikrotik! Hopefully someone can help here.

This is the only information avaliable on their website and a google search doesnt provide much else on this topic.

Username We use automated network authentication so there is no need for a username. You can leave this blank.
Password We use automated network authentication so there is no need for a password. You can leave this blank.
Transfer Mode/Loop Encaps PTM
VLAN ID 101
MTU 1500
DNS Set as automatic (or similar)
Priority 0
Authentication DHCP/IPoE

Im not sure how I would go about setting this up on the mikrotik. Can anyone provide any assistance based on these settings above? My contract ends on the 16th Jan so id idealy like to know before then if this is going to work or not so I can confidently switch to talktalk otherwise im going to have to stay with BT.
Last edited by rd228 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
rd228
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:25 pm

Not sure if this is the solution to the setup but I may just need to follow step 1 on this guide?

https://systemzone.net/mikrotik-configu ... onnection/

However im not sure regarding the encapsulation and VLAN ID get set?
 
sindy
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:57 pm

However im not sure regarding the encapsulation and VLAN ID get set?
Assuming ether1 is connected to the ISP gear:
Instead of attaching the /ip dhcp-client directly to ether1, do the following:
/interface vlan add interface=ether1 vlan-id=101 name=ether1.101
and attach the /ip dhcp-client to ether1.101 rather than ether1.

Further assuming that you use the default firewall rules, you have to replace ether1 by ether1.101 in the interface list named WAN.

You can use my-fancy-wan as a name of the /interface vlan instead of ether1.101, the .101 in the name has no actual meaning for the machine.

I would be more afraid of the "We use automated network authentication so there is no need for a username." I am not aware of any authentication method related to DHCP, so they can "authenticate" by your MAC address or by the physical channel through which you are connected, or not authenticate at all. Out of these possibilities, the "authentication" by MAC address could mean that you would have to assign some MAC address they like to your WAN. Some ISPs go quite far in discouraging users from connecting 3rd party equipment to their lines.
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
troffasky
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am

IME with Talktalk VDSL they accept anything at all as the username/password.
 
sindy
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:52 am

Sure, because for DHCP, there is no way to actually use any username/password. The question is what they mean by the "automated network authentication", whether that's just a marketing BS or there is some real meaning in it. Can't you test at a friend's before signing the contract?
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
rd228
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:14 am

Sure, because for DHCP, there is no way to actually use any username/password. The question is what they mean by the "automated network authentication", whether that's just a marketing BS or there is some real meaning in it. Can't you test at a friend's before signing the contract?
Thanks for the reply's Sindy! That all makes sense.

Where you said "Some ISPs go quite far in discouraging users from connecting 3rd party equipment to their lines."

The information I've provided above comes directly from TalkTalks website and I've spoken to their tech support to double check they allow 3rd party routers and they've all said yes. They just don't provide support helping you set it up so I'm unable to call their tech department and get them to walk me through configuring the mikrotik. They leave that up to you. The fact however that they provide this information on their website would to me mean they allow it

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Art ... -p/2205383.

The only issue I had was understanding how to implement those settings on the Mikrotik as I'm used to setting up a PPPoE connection with BT however talktalk don't do this and I wasn't sure how. Now I've found that guide and your extra explanation I think that will work.

I don't have a friend who has talk talk FTTP unfortunately. Its new to our area as up until now for the last 3 years (its a brand new housing estate) only BT were able to provide us broadband as we had no other provider in our area that could support FTTP connections up until now. UK ISPs give you a two week grace period any way so if I cant get it working then I can move back to BT and cancel my TalkTalk connection without penalty.

Thanks for your help! If I get it working ill do a write up so other people can search for this who may want to do the same!
 
tdw
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:42 pm

The TalkTalk help pages do not appear to have caught up with their available broadband products, having only recently started selling FTTP services via Openreach connections - PTM encoding and VLAN 101 are only applicable to FTTC / VDSL2 connections.

Whilst PPPoE is often used to provide the customer WAN connection Openreach do permit both PPPoE and IPoE, the ISP can use either or both as they desire. As TalkTalk use IPoE for their Openreach FTTC / VDSL2 services it is likely they do the same for their FTTP connections, so you should just need to use DHCP.

As to the "automated network authentication" the Openreach information notes state "Where PPPoE is detected from the client router additional tags will be inserted into the upstream flow by the Intermediate Agent (IA) in the OLT, the IA tags will be removed by the OLT in the downstream direction." Also "Where DHCPv4 is detected, the OLT will insert an option 82 agent information field into the upstream flow (DHCP Discover), the option 82 field will be removed by the OLT in the downstream response (DHCP Offer)." Similarly "Where DHCPv6 is detected, the OLT will insert options 17, 18 and 37 into the upstream flow (DHCP Solicit), the option fields will be removed by the OLT in the downstream response (DHCP Offer)."

An ISP can request a specific agent ID to be inserted when they order a circuit for a customer and use this to identify the customer from the DHCP request or PPPoE discovery, rather than from a router MAC address or PPPoE credentials. This is not mandatory, for example Sky use IPoE but require the client router to include a specific DHCP option 61 (a.k.a. "MER") for authentication.
 
rd228
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:23 pm

The TalkTalk help pages do not appear to have caught up with their available broadband products, having only recently started selling FTTP services via Openreach connections - PTM encoding and VLAN 101 are only applicable to FTTC / VDSL2 connections.

Whilst PPPoE is often used to provide the customer WAN connection Openreach do permit both PPPoE and IPoE, the ISP can use either or both as they desire. As TalkTalk use IPoE for their Openreach FTTC / VDSL2 services it is likely they do the same for their FTTP connections, so you should just need to use DHCP.

As to the "automated network authentication" the Openreach information notes state "Where PPPoE is detected from the client router additional tags will be inserted into the upstream flow by the Intermediate Agent (IA) in the OLT, the IA tags will be removed by the OLT in the downstream direction." Also "Where DHCPv4 is detected, the OLT will insert an option 82 agent information field into the upstream flow (DHCP Discover), the option 82 field will be removed by the OLT in the downstream response (DHCP Offer)." Similarly "Where DHCPv6 is detected, the OLT will insert options 17, 18 and 37 into the upstream flow (DHCP Solicit), the option fields will be removed by the OLT in the downstream response (DHCP Offer)."

An ISP can request a specific agent ID to be inserted when they order a circuit for a customer and use this to identify the customer from the DHCP request or PPPoE discovery, rather than from a router MAC address or PPPoE credentials. This is not mandatory, for example Sky use IPoE but require the client router to include a specific DHCP option 61 (a.k.a. "MER") for authentication.
Thank you :)

That does seem to make sense with TalkTalk documentation not being up to date as I did find a forum post on the talk talk community that says you dont need to do the VLAN tagging any more for FTTP. The official TalkTalk documentation for using your own router doesnt specify if those settings are for FTTP or FTTC but as you rightly say, based on that forum post I found it looks like its for FTTC. Their official documentation only states "Fibre" and doesnt specify what type of fibre.

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Gen ... -p/1502255

Sounds like I just need to remove the PPPoE interface from my Ether1 interface on the Mikrotik when I switch over and just setup DHCP client on the Ether1 interface then and I should be golden!?
 
tdw
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:53 pm

That does seem to make sense with TalkTalk documentation not being up to date as I did find a forum post on the talk talk community that says you dont need to do the VLAN tagging any more for FTTP. The official TalkTalk documentation for using your own router doesnt specify if those settings are for FTTP or FTTC but as you rightly say, based on that forum post I found it looks like its for FTTC. Their official documentation only states "Fibre" and doesnt specify what type of fibre.

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Gen ... -p/1502255
Too many services have been labelled 'fibre' in the past, mostly as a marketing exercise, which leads to confusion. TalkTalk have 'Fibre' for FTTC / VDSL2 services, 'Future Fibre' for Openreach FTTP, plus 'UFO' (Ultra Fibre Optic) available in some areas.

Sounds like I just need to remove the PPPoE interface from my Ether1 interface on the Mikrotik when I switch over and just setup DHCP client on the Ether1 interface then and I should be golden!?
To test you can disable rather than remove the PPPoE client, and add/enable a DHCP client on the ethernet interface. The firewall and NAT rules will need to refer to the new WAN interface, depending on when the Mikrotik was originally set up this involves changing either the in-interface or out-interface in the various rules (older firewall rules), or updating the WAN interface list membership (newer firewall rules).
 
sindy
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:11 pm

Finally someone who knows what talk talk is :)

Just one more remark from my side, I don't know what speeds (bandwidth) you'll get from talk talk, but the 2011 may become a bottleneck as its CPU is quite weak. So offloading the VLAN tagging/untagging task to the switch chip may relieve it a bit. If everything works well the way I've suggested and you'll notice the router's CPU to struggle, come back for more information on how to set up such an offload.
Instead of writing novels, post /export hide-sensitive. Use find&replace in your favourite text editor to systematically replace all occurrences of each public IP address potentially identifying you by a distinctive pattern such as my.public.ip.1.
 
tdw
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:30 pm

Finally someone who knows what talk talk is :)
It is likely confusing for residents of one country who have never come across the businesses operating as ISPs in others. In the UK the top four ISPs with greater than one million clients each are BT Group (BT, Plusnet, EE), Sky Broadband, Virgin Media and TalkTalk.

Just one more remark from my side, I don't know what speeds (bandwidth) you'll get from talk talk, but the 2011 may become a bottleneck as its CPU is quite weak. So offloading the VLAN tagging/untagging task to the switch chip may relieve it a bit. If everything works well the way I've suggested and you'll notice the router's CPU to struggle, come back for more information on how to set up such an offload.
Yes. TalkTalk offer packages with 150 or 500 Mbps download, a 2011 will not handle the faster package and may struggle with 150Mbps one if the configuration is not optimised.
 
rd228
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Re: TalkTalk FTTP Configuration Help!

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:41 pm

I'm currently using my 2011 with BT FTTP 150down and 50 up and I get the full speed however I am having to use Fasttrack to get that speed and keep the CPU down however my CPU does spike still.

I'm going to be moving to TalkTalk 500 down and 70 up. I did have some concerns that the 2011 might not be enough for this and have considered upgrading the router in the past.

I was looking at the RB4011 (non wifi version) as that has 4 CPU cores. Would that suffice? Ive seen plenty of reviews online that this is a pretty good specd router without having to jump up to the really expensive cloud cores.

I was looking at the cloud core routers but they are way out of my budget, even second hand. I can pick up an RB4011 for around £120/£130 new. Cloud cores easily go for double/triple that price.

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