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rgroothuis
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CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:58 pm

Hi All,

I cannot get my head around this one. In CAPs manager I've configured to use multiple different frequency channels. I'm expecting that CAPs manager is checking and managing the channel configurations of the various AP's. What I'v noticed is that the AP's are configured with almost all the same channels. See also screenshots included.

What am I doing wrong? What am I misunderstanding? Or is my expectation from CAPs manager to high that it can configure different channels/frequencies across my AP's?
Screenshot 2021-07-12 at 22.52.59.png
Screenshot 2021-07-12 at 22.57.04-2.jpg
Example of the AP config, both frequencies are set to auto.
Screenshot 2021-07-12 at 23.00.05-2.jpg
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:01 am

If you use the CAP, AP configuration for the remotely managed fields is U-S-E-L-E-S-S

What you set for country etc. can not circumvent what AP is capalbe to do.
Locked AP for united states, for example, work only on united states limitation.

For 2GHz I see all the 3 channel

But for 5GHz you do not leave any choice:
for skip dfs channel+Ceee to work, everytime 1st channel "the C" is used

the 5180-5240 (Ceee 36-40-44-48) is the only range usable without dfs and also detected from devices
not all devices support 5745-5825 interval

united states code

          5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)
          5170-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5490-5730/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5735-5835/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)

remove 5260 and 5500 and set XXXX instead of Ceee

But I really suggest you to use only 20MHz channel also on 5GHz
Last edited by rextended on Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:29 am

what you getting at status where current channel is?
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:19 am

what you getting at status where current channel is?
Sorry don't understand your question, can you elaborate a bit more?
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:22 am

If you use the CAP, AP configuration for the remotely managed fields is U-S-E-L-E-S-S

What you set for country etc. can not circumvent what AP is capalbe to do.
Locked AP for united states, for example, work only on united states limitation.

For 2GHz I see all the 3 channel

But for 5GHz you do not leave any choice:
for skip dfs channel+Ceee to work, everytime 1st channel "the C" is used

the 5180-5240 (Ceee 36-40-44-48) is the only range usable without dfs and also detected from devices
not all devices support 5745-5825 interval

united states code

          5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)
          5170-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5490-5730/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5735-5835/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(30dBm)

remove 5260 and 5500 and set XXXX instead of Ceee

But I really suggest you to use only 20MHz channel also on 5GHz
Thanks for your feedback. What you are saying is that with CAPsManager I cannot control a number of fields (or maybe all) on the AP? Correct? So channel configuration is something you still manage on the AP itself, correct? Is that what you are saying?

So the best way to split the different channels/frequencies is to give each AP its own fixed channel/frequency hard configured on the AP itself. Probably I've to remove the channel config on the CAPsMAN? Correct?

Why is there a channel config option on the CAPsMan if it is not working? I don't understand

I'm based in the Netherlands, I'm always struggling with the frequency configuration, I will give your suggestion a try. The current config was suggested by someone with experience :-)
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:14 am

Do not read what I have not wroted.

I wrote "If you use the CAP, AP configuration for the remotely managed fields is U-S-E-L-E-S-S" and that mean.

You understand the rest I have wrote? For example:
>>>the 5180-5240 (Ceee 36-40-44-48) is the only range usable without dfs
what mean for you?

The current config was suggested by someone with experience :-)
Experience in what?
Laundry?
Someone than set "Skip DFS Channels" on 2GHz.... and Ceee on 5GHz... no comment...
Last edited by rextended on Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:24 am

Do not read what I have not wroted.

I wrote "If you use the CAP, AP configuration for the remotely managed fields is U-S-E-L-E-S-S" and that mean.

You understand the rest I have wrote? For example:
>>>the 5180-5240 (Ceee 36-40-44-48) is the only range usable without dfs
what mean for you?

The current config was suggested by someone with experience :-)
Experience in what?
Laundry?
Someone than set "Skip DFS Channels" on 2GHz.... and Ceee on 5GHz... no comment...
Thanks for your feedback, but this kind of support and discussion is not adding any value. Sorry to say this. I'm trying to have a normal discussion and try to improve my Mikrotik situation then having this type of feedback is not really helpful. Hope you can be more constructive and have some better explanation why something would not be correctly configured.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:26 am

Last edited by rextended on Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:35 am

The main question is how can I configure CAPsMan to arrange a good frequency arrangement across the different AP's being managed by the CAPsMAN. That is the main question.

The additional feedback on the frequencies and Ceee etc. is welcome as well but I need to read up about this first before I can comment on this. Removing some frequencies is possible and again I need to do some checking.

My follow-up question about how to do the frequency arrangement across the various AP's, if this manually needs to be done on the AP itself is not answer as well.

So constructive?? I only read useless and laundry which is absolutely not relevant at all!
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:37 am

Okay, you haven't even read and understood post #2, you're acting worse than a troll.
You don't want help, just create discussion. You are a lost cause.
Last edited by rextended on Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:07 am

AFAIK CAPsMAN does not really affect the way CAP works, it only provisions CAPs. Which means that CAPs are free to select any frequency channel from the provisioned list of channels. And this in turn means that frequency channel co-ordination between CAPs is not better than between usual APs. It also means that CAPsMAN setting does not override any CAP limitations (e.g. limitation of available frequency list, ...).

It is possible to force particular CAPs to use particular frequency channels, but that's manual work which involves creation separate provisioning profiles for CAPs.

BTW, as @rextended already noted: your 5GHz list includes channels 5180, 5200, 5220, 5240, 5260 and 5500. At the same time you're setting extension channel setting of Ceee. The channel list has to include all channels, also those for "e" channels (making the 5500 setting unusable). Which means that with 80MHz channels only two schemes are possible: C channel occupying 5180MHz channel and C channel occupying 5200MHz channel. According to channel list only 5180 MHz channel is possible selection for C channel when using 80MHz channels.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:29 pm

Thanks mkx, usefull feedback. I will manually start dividing the frequency of the different AP's to prevent conflicts on the same channel.

Regarding the Ceee topic, I believe I understand what you are saying. I will do some moe studying and try to understand this a bit more. I guess the issue is that with 80Mhz there is an overlap with the next or previous channel, hence I should remove that Ceee config. Correct?

The channel selection listed in the screenshot is in the CAPsMAN, the AP itself doesn't have a frequency set, it is currently set to automatic. So this overlapping is currently not an issue as all the AP's are using the same frequency, see screenshot. As soon as I start dividing the different frequencies across the different AP's it will become a problem. So I need to solve this, that is clear. Thanks.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:13 pm

There are local AP settings and there are CAPsMAN settings. When device is used as CAP device, certain (most notably wireless) settings on local device are overriden with CAPsMAN settings. If CAPsMAN setup limits devices to certain frequencies, devices will (automatically) select one of frequencies from the list. Manual selection for CAPsMAN provisioned devices is done by only allowing certain frequencies.

As to frequency list: if you have a look at WiFi frequency list (link in my previous post) and look at 80 MHz channels ... you'll notice that 80 MHz channel with lowest frequency spans channels the following 20MHz channels: 36, 40, 44 and 48 (next one spans channels 52-64, another one 100-112, etc.). And when CAP selects frequency to operate it's Ceee channel group, it can only select channel 36 (5180 MHz). It can't select channel 40 (5200 MHz) because that's not valid channel for 80 MHz Ceee layout. It would be valid channel for 80 MHz eCee layout though. If you used XXXX (instead of Ceee), CAPs might select different channels, but if the selection worked right, they would also use different channel layout. At the end of the day, they would still all use frequency band between 5170MHz and 5250MHz (grand total of 80 MHz).

Current setup, where all APs use same frequencies, is not ideal, it reduces overall throughput (if one AP or its client transmits, other APs and clients don't ... as long as adjacent AP can hear transmissions). However, if 80MHz channel overlaps, it's still better to have main channel (C) overlap as well. Reason is that if channels don't entirely overlap, detection of busy channel is worse (if works at all) and it becomes a huge interference.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:13 pm

Thanks again mkx for the useful feedback. Regarding the auto channel selection, on the 5Ghz I can understand that due to misconfiguration only one frequency can be used, I will fix that.
But on the 2.4GHz the configuration of the channels is OK, correct? Why don't I see a split of different channels being used by the different AP's?
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:28 pm

But you do see different channels used on 2.4GHz: 1, 6 and 11. If you browse the document about chanels (I posted the link in one of my previous posts) and jump to 2.4GHz section, you'll se a nice illustration showing that in 2.4GHz channels are in fact overlapping (and thus interfering with each other), only channels 1, 6 and 11 don't overlap. Or, if one limits AP to g/n and lives in Europe which, unlike USA, allows using channels 12 and 13, the list of non-overlapping channels is 1, 5, 9 and 13 (which actually allows use of two non-overlapping 40MHz channels).
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:09 pm

Yes, you are right, sorry, my mistake. I do see 1, 6 and 11 being used. I reacted to quickly as I saw two AP's with more or less same signal strength (physically more or less same distance) on the same channel, I expected that because they have the same signal strength, they would be on different channels. But I was wrong, the channels are divided accordingly.

I know about the overlapping issue and only 1, 6 and 11 should be used.

THanks. for the feedback. THis weekend I will try to resolve the 5Ghz as well.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:19 pm

You still have some solution and explanation in post #2
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176802&p=867648#p867127
and is like you still to not have readed it...

And do not seem to me that you consider too the other Users that much...

The current config was suggested by someone with experience :-)
Why you do not contact again the so experienced Washerman's Friends ® for help?
 
rgroothuis
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:42 pm

I guess and assume you are not reading my email as well. I'm going to look into the 5Ghz topics this weekend. This is based on the feedback you provided as well. Thanks.
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:50 am

you are not reading my email
What email? :?
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:36 pm

With my 5Ghz capacs, I use the following settings.
5GHz-N/AC
20/40MHz Ce

Explanation of Channels in 5Ghz.
The full 5 GHz range spans frequencies from 5.15 GHz to 5.85 GHz. 5GHz wireless communication takes place over a large spectrum with a number of non-overlapping channels of sizable bandwidth. This facilitates exceptionally fast and accurate data transfer under optimal conditions
There are up to 19 5 GHz channels contained within the four 20MHz bands:
A-Lower, which has a frequency range of 5.150-5.250Ghz. Its channel numbers are 36, 40, 44, and 48 and it is specified for indoor use.
A-Upper. This 5 GHz frequency band has a range of 5.250-5.350Ghz. its channel numbers are 52, 56, 60 and 64 and are specified for indoor use.
The B band can be used for indoor or Outdoor use and has contenders for the best 5ghz channel. The eleven channels number from 100 through 140 and have a frequency range of 5470-5725Ghz.
Band C is specified for Outdoor use and has a frequency range of 5735-5850Ghz. Its channel numbers are 147, 151,155, and 167. It is for point to point communications and is in fact licensed.
Individual channels are 5 MHz wide but are spaced to avoid overlapping.

LIst of individual channels.........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... j/n/ac/ax)
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:28 pm

As suggested in the above conversation, I've adjusted the 5Ghz configuration, now the 5Ghz channels are distributed across different channels. This is good, thanks for the support.
The current 5Ghz channel width is 20 Mhz. I'm still trying to upgrade to 40Mhz channel width for better performance.
Screenshot 2021-07-19 at 21.57.45.png
Next is to upgrade the 5Ghz to use 40 Mhz. I'm trying a possible combinations but without any luck.
The following setup is not working, it doesn't give me any 5Ghz wifi signals on the APs. What am I missing?
Screenshot 2021-07-19 at 22.27.24.png
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 am

What have you miss???
You haven't studied post #2 yet, you see, you persist in ignoring it but everything is written in there, even the answer to these other questions...
the 5180-5240 (Ceee 36-40-44-48) is the only range usable without dfs and also detected from devices
 
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Re: CAPS Man & different WIFI channel config

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:17 am

thanks @rextended for your #2post.

That makes a lot of sense, and can answer lot of questions

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