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uebi
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:02 am

uebi during those three years, we have introduced plenty of new features, changed some commands, removed things and completely reorganized how queues work. it's not "just sitting". it is keeping yourself up to date.
Yeah, that's for sure. That's technology and that's how it is. It's the same situation for every vendor. The only difference is that other vendors say "Ok, try if you can pass it. If not it's your money you wasted on the exam fees." and MikroTik wants everybody to attend the training again, even people who don't need the training as they use RouterOS on a daily basis and are aware of those changes. I understand your point (somehow), but from my perspective (a host), it's incredible hard to justify that. There are a lot of people in those training who attended a CCNA training long time ago. At Cisco a lot changed as well, but within 3 years, they just go to Pearson and recertificate and don't attend the training again. If they are not aware of what has changed, they fail and should think about a new training, but at least they have the chance to proof that they are up to date.

If you would have an option in your member's area, that somebody who has a certificate that is about to expire can recertify by taking the exam again for let's say € 50,- or whatever, than it would be easy money for you and people would recertify. I he/she fails I'll be delighted to make a reservation for him/her for our next training :-) Think about that one!

you DO NOT HAVE TO RECERTIFY MTCNA if you have higher grade certificate. you must have misunderstood something.
I understood that correctly, we just have attendees who want to keep them both and they ask the same stupid question to me as I'm asking you. For a host it's just hard to tell anybody "Yeah, you know about NSSAs/PCQ/HTB/VPLS/whatever, now attend the MTCNA training for a couple of days of your precious time and give me some money to learn the basics." I just can't believe that somebody who passes an advanced training will ever fail in an MTCNA class, but still he has to attend it to keep that lower level certificate.



Thanks for your reply!


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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:04 am

what do you mean "keep them both" ? if you have MTCRE, it is automatically assumed you have MTCNA. You don't need to show it to anybody, valid MTCRE includes MTCNA within it self, so to say. Even if you passed MTCNA 8 years ago, if your MTCRE is active, you automatically have MTCNA

edit: I noticed one thing where this could be needed - the consultant table. we will update the table, to show MTCNA if you have MTC-advanced
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:10 am

what do you mean "keep them both" ? if you have MTCRE, it is automatically assumed you have MTCNA. You don't need to show it to anybody, valid MTCRE includes MTCNA within it self, so to say. Even if you passed MTCNA 8 years ago, if your MTCRE is active, you automatically have MTCNA
Yeah, that's true, but why do people write MTCNA PLUS their advanced certificate in their signature? They just want to. Doesn't make sense, but people still do that.
The other point which raises this question is that all your advnaced training outline PDFs say "Course prerequisities - MTCNA certificate". Now every average Joe starts asking...

Anyway, this point is not so important to me as the other point mentioned in my previous post.


Thanks!

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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:13 am

what do you mean "keep them both" ? if you have MTCRE, it is automatically assumed you have MTCNA. You don't need to show it to anybody, valid MTCRE includes MTCNA within it self, so to say. Even if you passed MTCNA 8 years ago, if your MTCRE is active, you automatically have MTCNA
Yeah, that's true, but why do people write MTCNA PLUS their advanced certificate in their signature? They just want to. Doesn't make sense, but people still do that.
The other point which raises this question is that all your advnaced training outline PDFs say "Course prerequisities - MTCNA certificate". Now every average Joe starts asking...

Anyway, this point is not so important to me as the other point mentioned in my previous post.


Thanks!

KR,
uebi
Instead of the above, you could just clarify that they can write MTCNA in their signature if they want, even after more than 3 years, if they have other active certificates. What's more, "Course prerequisities - MTCNA certificate" works with expired MTCNA if you have MTCRE or similar.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:28 am

Instead of the above, you could just clarify that they can write MTCNA in their signature if they want, even after more than 3 years, if they have other active certificates. What's more, "Course prerequisities - MTCNA certificate" works with expired MTCNA if you have MTCRE or similar.
Ok, then I will tell that anybody who's asking me. No problem with that.
Writing MTCNA in the signature after 3 years contradicts with edmunds post that an advanced certificate does not extend the validity of an MTCNA...

Anyway, I'm a fan of your trainings and the certificates. The certificates also proof that the training has been held by a certified training partner and not by some wannabe. It's just the way the recertification process works that doesn't make me happy ;-)


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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:52 pm

Dear Mr Shahbazian
Tell me if there was MTCINE exam in Iran. I just need do exam. there's no problem with me and the course. implementing BGP & MPLS is the parts of my job in Cisco and MTK, Here is a deep conceptual view and no need to sit.

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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:01 pm

As a long-time lurker I thought I would chime in on this. I have been contemplating training and trying to get my manager to agree but reading this thread I am very surprised to see a requirement to retake a classroom course if one wants to retain certification.

None of the supposed justifications will cut it with my manager nor anybody else who is used to the approach taken by Cisco, Juniper etc. etc. . Sadly this coupled with the lack of proper change logs and security releases may well have killed off my plot to introduce the CCR on our projects. :(
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:06 pm

As a long-time lurker I thought I would chime in on this. I have been contemplating training and trying to get my manager to agree but reading this thread I am very surprised to see a requirement to retake a classroom course if one wants to retain certification.

None of the supposed justifications will cut it with my manager nor anybody else who is used to the approach taken by Cisco, Juniper etc. etc. . Sadly this coupled with the lack of proper change logs and security releases may well have killed off my plot to introduce the CCR on our projects. :(
Maybe you missed what I wrote, but you don't need to do this. It is a requirement only for trainers who want to keep teaching for longer than 3 years, and only applies to advanced classes.

P.S.: Does anybody really hire Cisco certified people who took their certification in the early nineties? Nobody cares if they remember anything, or know what's new?
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:22 pm

Maybe you missed what I wrote, but you don't need to do this. It is a requirement only for trainers who want to keep teaching for longer than 3 years, and only applies to advanced classes.

P.S.: Does anybody really hire Cisco certified people who took their certification in the early nineties? Nobody cares if they remember anything, or know what's new?
I think that you misunderstand. Like many companies in our field our policies require that we maintain certification on core equipment and the costs of doing so are rolled up into the projected total cost of ownership, so Mikrotik's policies regarding classroom training for certification / re-certification increase the total cost of ownership for us and negatively offset much of the initial cost advantage of the CCR!

The requirement that a classroom course is taken before sitting any of these tests for initial certification gives my manager impression that either the testing isn't very well developed or the requirement is simply a job creation scheme for trainers.

As regards hiring people with old Cisco certs.......... Cisco lets people certify / re-certify by simply sitting the tests so they make it quite affordable to keep certs current - unlike Mikrotik!

In fact it isn't the MTCNA that I am interested in - that seems to be a very basic cert and not even of the same status as the Cisco CCNA. Along with a colleague I was interested in the MTCINE cert but it seems that the course scheduled for New York may not be acceptable to our purchasing people anyway so we may have to wait for somebody with confirmed USA status to offer such a course.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:18 pm

Hi TowerRouter!

Luckily there's somebody here who understands me a bit :-)

To me the MikroTik certification procedure seems to be in some sort of a beta state (still). I like MikroTik and use it for a quite long time now, but the certification stuff is just weird. I also sometimes received different answers through the forum and the support team.

Now at least two people think that it's a bad idea to force somebody in a classroom training to recertify :-)


Anyway, when I get the chance I'll go for the MTCINE training but I already know that if I pass my certificate it will expire in 3 years. First of all is because I don't like the forced classroom policy, second is that I won't start to argue with some training partner about a shorter training just to refresh it (because the training partner wants to earn money and this idea from MikroTik(!) isn't the best one in this case...) and third is that my boss will NOT pay more than 1.000,- in 3 years for training/hotel AGAIN just to recertify the MTCINE (and 1.000,- for the MTCTCE as this is not covered by recertifying the MTCINE as I've been told).


So, for me it is a nice training and a good idea, but the implementation is bad...



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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:24 pm

At the end of the day, this results in better experts. We can verify in real life, that our certified people are actually knowledgeable and understand the software. It is no some synthetic exam nobody controls. We have personal interaction with these people for several days, and we can then vouch for their expertise.

It is wrong to compare this with Cisco CCIE. In their case, you still need to re-take the exam after 24 months, but their course costs much more, so comparison is not fair.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:35 pm

It is wrong to compare this with Cisco CCIE. In their case, you still need to re-take the exam after 24 months, but their course costs much more, so comparison is not fair.
Cisco also changes a lot in 2 years, but a CCIE just goes to a Pearson VUE testcenter in his region and takes the exam. That's it. He does NOT have to attend a classroom training again or do the lab exam every two years...
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:42 pm

It is wrong to compare this with Cisco CCIE. In their case, you still need to re-take the exam after 24 months, but their course costs much more, so comparison is not fair.
Cisco also changes a lot in 2 years, but a CCIE just goes to a Pearson VUE testcenter in his region and takes the exam. That's it. He does NOT have to attend a classroom training again or do the lab exam every two years...
It still costs a lot of money to retake that exam. In the end, is the problem, the price, or the 3 days ?
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:08 pm

It still costs a lot of money to retake that exam. In the end, is the problem, the price, or the 3 days ?

Well, I'm not sure to about the CCIE written, but a single CCNA or CCNP exam (640-XXX or 642-XXX) is about € 150,- at Pearson VUE. That's not so much money.

The 3 days might be ok if it's a web based training (which would be cool anyway). Brocade has this as well. The problem is that there are not so many MikroTik Academies, Training Partners, MUMs, ... and under normal circumstances you have to travel. This means a flight, accommodation and the training itself. It's hard to justify that to your boss if you as a technician want to keep the certification valid and maybe the boss just won't allow it as this will easily pass € 1.000,-


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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:20 pm

The CCIE is far and away beyond anything that Mikrotik offers - not even in the same league.............

From the comments in this thread and others my conclusion is that Mikrotik has a very basic curriculum outlined and an even more basic testing regime - thus the process is highly dependent on presence at the training courses. That might work well enough for those being introduced to networking via RouterOS but it is unnecessarily costly and inefficient for those of us who have other advanced certifications.

Like others before me I am now thoroughly frustrated!
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:00 pm

The CCIE is far and away beyond anything that Mikrotik offers - not even in the same league.............
110% true...
From the comments in this thread and others my conclusion is that Mikrotik has a very basic curriculum outlined and an even more basic testing regime - thus the process is highly dependent on presence at the training courses. That might work well enough for those being introduced to networking via RouterOS but it is unnecessarily costly and inefficient for those of us who have other advanced certifications.
If we are a hosting a training, then a lot of the attendees are pretty new to networking or are just self claimed experts. You know, entering an IP address via the Windows Control Panel is enough for some people to call themselves expert. To those guys training is good, although 4 days is by far not enough. Anyway, those guys WILL fail if they just retake the exam 3 years later without using RouterOS on a regular basis - definitely! If you sit them in a training AGAIN they might pass. The bad thing is that the current policy wants people who really now their way around in RouterOS sit next to them and idle for 4 straight days just to retake the exam. Those people should have the chance to do it without the training, just like the Huawei, Juniper, Microsoft, Cisco, ... certified people.

So to me the MikroTik certification track becomes more valuable if there will be a less time and money wasting way to recertify.


KR,
uebi

PS: I already have a bet going that after 3 years at least 3 of our former training attendees who passed the exam will come along with an expired certificate and tell that they just haven't got a chance to recertify. Due to the current policy and possibilities that's and easy excuse and you have to accept it...
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:33 am

Tell me if there was MTCINE exam in Iran. I just need do exam. there's no problem with me and the course.
Hello dear

Our MTCINE courses will be held in August in the Urmia. You can participate in this course and take exam.
Here is a deep conceptual view and no need to sit.
You need participate in that course to take the exam.
Learn MikroTik to improve your network.
( MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME, MTCIPv6E, MTCINE )
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:43 pm

those guys WILL fail if they just retake the exam 3 years later without using RouterOS on a regular basis - definitely! If you sit them in a training AGAIN they might pass. The bad thing is that the current policy wants people who really now their way around in RouterOS sit next to them and idle for 4 straight days just to retake the exam. Those people should have the chance to do it without the training
Yes, but how will you know the difference between those two types of people :) ?
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:59 pm

those guys WILL fail if they just retake the exam 3 years later without using RouterOS on a regular basis - definitely! If you sit them in a training AGAIN they might pass. The bad thing is that the current policy wants people who really now their way around in RouterOS sit next to them and idle for 4 straight days just to retake the exam. Those people should have the chance to do it without the training
Yes, but how will you know the difference between those two types of people :) ?
By letting them take an (online) exam to recertify. If they pass, they have been working with MikroTik for sure, if the fail (and want to keep their certification) they should/have to attend a training. It's that easy :-)
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:10 pm

How does one obtain the Mikrotik Certrified Trainer certification?
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:32 am

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:57 am

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
If you want a high security testing environment than you'll have to move to Person VUE, Prometric or whatever.

All the vendors who offer online certification (for example Extreme Networks for the ENA is one of them afaik) have to face this "risk". Anyway, I never said that the first time somebody wants to get the certificate they should have the option to do it online. This is your chance to meet them when the attend the first official training, but recertification should be possible either by taking the training again or by an online test. You still have the chance that somebody might ask somebody else to use his account to recertify but first of all I think this will be a very rare case, second is that you should write that in your policy that you revoke all existing certificates if you find out and third is what would be the actual problem?? Right now it's not like a MikroTik certificate is a guarantee for a 250.000,- job and as long it is that way I believe you could live with this tiny risk. Anyway, if somebody fakes it and says he/she knows stuff that he/she doesn't, than the employer (and his karma) will punish him...
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:51 pm

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
For Cisco and other certifications the person's ID is checked at the testing center. Like it or not, Mikrotik's current certification system is simply unattractive to many experienced network engineers.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:56 pm

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
For Cisco and other certifications the person's ID is checked at the testing center. Like it or not, Mikrotik's current certification system is simply unattractive to many experienced network engineers.
We don't have testing centres. Therefore we can't have online tests like you propose. We can either have them at the training class, or online from user's home. As you can see, second choice is not an option really.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 pm

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
For Cisco and other certifications the person's ID is checked at the testing center. Like it or not, Mikrotik's current certification system is simply unattractive to many experienced network engineers.
We don't have testing centres. Therefore we can't have online tests like you propose. We can either have them at the training class, or online from user's home. As you can see, second choice is not an option really.
Sure you can have online tests. Either via your own portal like the practice test or something like certmetrics etc. The first option is more flexible of course and I'm sure that this is indeed an option! I just still don't get what you are afraid of? My idea is still the same: First a training (as a must), the first certification at the training, 3 years later for those people who are certified through their initial training the chance to recertify by doing your online exam (just like during the training) from home. Other people who didn't attend the training should not have access to this option if this makes you feel more safe.

So simple and you do have some proof of identity as they first certified through the official training. There won't be a billion MTCINEs out there after changing your policy.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:22 pm

Online tests are often taken by somebody else.
For Cisco and other certifications the person's ID is checked at the testing center. Like it or not, Mikrotik's current certification system is simply unattractive to many experienced network engineers.
We don't have testing centres. Therefore we can't have online tests like you propose. We can either have them at the training class, or online from user's home. As you can see, second choice is not an option really.
Or you could make testing available through the same independent testing center networks as other vendors use! The current system may be simpler for Mikrotik but that is exactly what creates the ridiculous scenario of a professional network engineer being expected to spend 3 days in a course for the MTCNA before he/she can even be allowed to sit in yet another class for one of the more advanced certifications.

Come to that, if you have confidence in the testing then the existing testing partners / trainers could administer the exams without training for an exam fee. That might actually encourage existing professionals to certify up to a certain level and then take a course for the likes of the MTCINE.

Anybody who thinks that a Cisco CCNA needs a 3 day course to sit the MTCNA is seriously delusional!
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:32 am

Sorry for necroposting (again), but I just wanted to update my status...

I just realized that I'm no longer listed as a MikroTik certified consultant. I was wondering why and contacted the MikroTik sales team.

A very friendly guy told me the reason is because my MTCNA has expired. Well... I told him that I'm aware of that, but I'm still holding two advanced certifications (MTCTCE and MTCWE) which aren't expired! He then told me that the policy says I have to hold an MTCNA as well to be a consultant, which means I have to redo my MTCNA although I'm currently holding two advanced certifications! So we are back where we started. MTCNA is expired and the advanced certifications are now (more or less) useless or somehow half-valid. The are still valid and I can call myself an MTCWE, but I'm not allowed to call myself a consultant, which makes them worthless. Does this make sense in any way to anybody??

Anyway... I'm 100% sure that I would pass the MTCNA exam right away, but I'm not going to travel somewhere, I'm not sitting 3 days in a training and I'm not going to sponsor somebody just to support this stupid certification policy.

I'm also canceling my plans to go for the MTCINE and will never ever do any MikroTik certification again. If anyone of my customers asks why I'm not certified (anymore) I'll point him to this thread and I'm sure he will understand me.


Anyway... I'm using MikroTik since 2.7 and I still like you guys and your products, but your certification track is so f@#*ing broken!!!!!



KR,
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Hope they will not delete your post. Fingers crossed. Anyway, the certification can be useful when applying for a project but when you have good reputation and your customers have good experience with you, there is no need for this.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:50 pm

Just for the record: It was a mistake and my status as consultant has been reenabled. MikroTik finally confirmed that the MTCNA can expire but as long as the advanced certification is vaild you will keep the status. Everything else wouldn't make sense anyway as I originally critizied.



Thanks and have a nice weekend everybody
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:07 am

Lucky you.
 
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Suggestion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:58 pm

Hello guys. I'm Brazilian but actually living in Saskatoon - SK, Canada.
I work for a small I.T company and by the cost benefit of the Mikrotik routers, we start to suggest it to our clients.
I have been working in around 10 or more projects to small and medium business with your routers, and I'm falling in love by Mikrotik products.
As I had to study a lot by myself, I thought should be a good idea to take a MTCNA exam.
I just find out that it will be impossible to do at the city I'm living.. so I wonder why you guys just don't make it easier to everyone and offer exams on registered centers as Microsoft and Cisco already does?
By the way, I'm Microsoft certified for server and hyper-v, which I took studying by myself.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:10 am

MikroTik certificates can't be bought. You must (this is a requirement) attend the 3-4 day course at an official MikroTik training center, so that a certified MikroTik expert can evaluate you in person.

"Registered exam center" doesn't do that.
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:22 pm

I can't change Mikrotik certification method myself, but I don't think this is the most efficient way!
You guys are losing with this line of thinking.
Why not give an opportunity to i.t providers in medium and small cities, to have certified professionals and offer a better and trusted service to their clients.
Again, this is just a suggestion. I will keep studying and take a Mikrotik certification as soon I have chance. Until it happen, why not get a CCNA which is possible cause any Certified Exam Provider at my city offer that.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:30 pm

uebi during those three years, we have introduced plenty of new features, changed some commands, removed things and completely reorganized how queues work. it's not "just sitting". it is keeping yourself up to date.

you DO NOT HAVE TO RECERTIFY MTCNA if you have higher grade certificate. you must have misunderstood something.
Hi there. I'm a Cisco CCNA certified from 6 years ago (recently I renew my cert.) and I'm also a MTCNA Mikrotik certified. In Cisco, if you earn a higher certification, it renews your lower certs for 3 more years, and gives you 3 years on the higher you have. But in Mikrotik, till now, I don't know how it works... I'm a little confused after the reading of this topic. So, If I take MTCWE certification, I earn 3 year as a MTCWE certified guy, but I loose the MTCNA? Or Mikrotik works like Cisco, giving me 3 more years of MTCNA either? Please let me know, because I have 1 more year before my mikrotik cert expiration...
Thanks in advance,

Francisco Javier Caldera
 
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Chupaka
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:06 pm

if you have MTCRE, it is automatically assumed you have MTCNA. Even if you passed MTCNA 8 years ago, if your MTCRE is active, you automatically have MTCNA
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loveman
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:09 am

How can i get the test exam for MTCWE before going to online exam?
 
Quared
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:41 am

Hello,

no double-posts please ...

Check my post here

greets
 
morgan87
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:00 pm

Trainers in Kenya asking for as much as 900$ for MTCNA alone, this equates to a whole degree in a public university in our country. But the mission is routing the world isn't it.
 
morgan87
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:02 pm

Shouldn't Normis (Mikrotik) please come up with a standard charge for the training per certification or other criteria. Paying 900$ for training that lasts 2 days is not logical.
 
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Re: Mikrotik Certification test

Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:08 pm

Checked the prices here, something like 350 $ for MTCNA theoretical + practical in two days where official average salary/wage is around 18000 $ brutto per year. Comparison to university fees is misleading as university education funding policies differ significantly per country. What's the official brutto salary/wage in Kenya? That should be a better indicator of how audacious the training price is.
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