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SmalleR
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:58 pm

No, I'm serious. If support promised that bug is fixed in next release - Did you try the fixed release?

How do you expect MikroTik to fix bugs, magically apply fixes to your system without upgrade???

What's new in 3.11:
*) fixed bug - in some cases web proxy https with parent-proxy did not work;
*) added default-route-distance setting for DHCP client;
*) mesh protocol
*) multicast
*) user manager
*) added ability to dst. nat only address or port, not both at the same time;
*) ospf
*) ipsec
*) port remote-access
*) ethernet half duplex modes on rb400 series work now;
*) console
*) console
*) console
*) console
*) console
*) console
*) console
Where?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:59 pm

Changelog doesn't include all minor fixes. Too bad, but that's the way it is. That is why support specifically said that it will be fixed, You should test and see. If it still doesn't work, report to support and they will check why
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:03 pm

As i wrote above no one told me it will be fixed in next release about the particular issue about this thread!!!!

As i wrote above i reported my feeling about the generic way MT responds. No feedback from MT about this issue.

I am running the latest release on my 2 pppoe servers but the issue is still there.

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:09 pm

I don't know about this issue. I just commented the person who said "support told me it will be fixed in next release"
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:49 am

I also have noticed this problem.. All my PPPoE concentrators are running 2.9.46. I've been holding off on upgrading them until this particular problem has been addressed.

Basically what happens is a user connects, but for some reason the simple queue does not get created for their interface, thus giving them an unlimited connection. I've had users getting 10+mbps because of this. I usually catch it, and the fix is to remove their PPPoE session and it will then reconnect and recreate the queue properly. It happens inconsistently but I'd say I see it happen a few times a week.

I have 3 PPPoE concentrators with 300+ users on each of them, and it happens on all of them. I have a whole Customer Information System (CIS) that is designed around RADIUS, Mikrotik, and PPPoE.. So changing to PCQ wouldn't be my ideal solution. I do have the ability to specify an IP address pool through my CIS but that would require going through the 1000+ accounts and changing each one to match their specific connection speed. Using a dynamic address list may be possible, but can you add an account to an address list through RADIUS? If not whats the point? I'm looking to reduce administrative overhead as much as possible.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:55 am

Here's the topic I started on this exact problem almost a year ago...

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... ple+queues
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:50 pm

No, I'm serious. If support promised that bug is fixed in next release - Did you try the fixed release?

How do you expect MikroTik to fix bugs, magically apply fixes to your system without upgrade???

Sure I tested not only the "next release" but all releases after that.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:52 pm

In my case the queue is created but the traffic doesn´t flow thru it. I now a person who have this same problem that told me if you disable que queue and re-enable it the traffic starts to flow thru it.
I also have noticed this problem.. All my PPPoE concentrators are running 2.9.46. I've been holding off on upgrading them until this particular problem has been addressed.

Basically what happens is a user connects, but for some reason the simple queue does not get created for their interface, thus giving them an unlimited connection. I've had users getting 10+mbps because of this. I usually catch it, and the fix is to remove their PPPoE session and it will then reconnect and recreate the queue properly. It happens inconsistently but I'd say I see it happen a few times a week.

I have 3 PPPoE concentrators with 300+ users on each of them, and it happens on all of them. I have a whole Customer Information System (CIS) that is designed around RADIUS, Mikrotik, and PPPoE.. So changing to PCQ wouldn't be my ideal solution. I do have the ability to specify an IP address pool through my CIS but that would require going through the 1000+ accounts and changing each one to match their specific connection speed. Using a dynamic address list may be possible, but can you add an account to an address list through RADIUS? If not whats the point? I'm looking to reduce administrative overhead as much as possible.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:56 pm

in my case the queue is created too but after a while (around 4/5 days) the traffic stops to flow into it.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:42 pm

In my case the queue is created but the traffic doesn´t flow thru it. I now a person who have this same problem that told me if you disable que queue and re-enable it the traffic starts to flow thru it.
In that case. Is it possible to write a script that at 3am or so evry night it disables then reenables all the queues on the box? Might be a temp fix?

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:02 pm

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24224

Dynamic PPP Address list looks like it might be a viable solution... at least for me.. I can change the attribute in my management system so instead of passing mikrotik-rate-limit for the rate plans i can create dynamic address lists based on the same value and just change the RADIUS attribute.

Then create the PCQ's and get rid of all the simple queues.

This might be a solution... at least for my setup. :)
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:29 pm

Dynamic PPP Address list looks like it might be a viable solution... at least for me.. I can change the attribute in my management system so instead of passing mikrotik-rate-limit for the rate plans i can create dynamic address lists based on the same value and just change the RADIUS attribute.

Then create the PCQ's and get rid of all the simple queues.

This might be a solution... at least for my setup.
Someone else in this thread stated they switched to PCQ like that and still had the same issues.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:22 pm

In my case the queue is created but the traffic doesn´t flow thru it. I now a person who have this same problem that told me if you disable que queue and re-enable it the traffic starts to flow thru it.
In that case. Is it possible to write a script that at 3am or so evry night it disables then reenables all the queues on the box? Might be a temp fix?

Matt
But at 3am just a few users are connected and this is a random problem. If the user connect in the middle of the day? Most of my users connect, use Internet and then disconnect.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:24 pm

Dynamic PPP Address list looks like it might be a viable solution... at least for me.. I can change the attribute in my management system so instead of passing mikrotik-rate-limit for the rate plans i can create dynamic address lists based on the same value and just change the RADIUS attribute.

Then create the PCQ's and get rid of all the simple queues.

This might be a solution... at least for my setup.
Someone else in this thread stated they switched to PCQ like that and still had the same issues.

Matt
Exactly. He said it was even worst then dynamic queues.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:27 pm

But at 3am just a few users are connected and this is a random problem. If the user connect in the middle of the day? Most of my users connect, use Internet and then disconnect.
In my experience this affects more users that stay connected 24/7 then those that disconnect and reconnect. Problem is on a user connected 24/7 that is a bandwidth hog they will be online with no rate-limit for weeks. Reseting the queues every 24 hours insures they will only get away with it 24 hours at most.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:41 pm

But at 3am just a few users are connected and this is a random problem. If the user connect in the middle of the day? Most of my users connect, use Internet and then disconnect.
In my experience this affects more users that stay connected 24/7 then those that disconnect and reconnect. Problem is on a user connected 24/7 that is a bandwidth hog they will be online with no rate-limit for weeks. Reseting the queues every 24 hours insures they will only get away with it 24 hours at most.

Matt
This is a important information. I will pay attention for how long time the user was online when this happen. But how do you disable and enable a dynamic queue? This option is not available at WinBox for this kind of queue. This can be done via script?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:00 pm

But how do you disable and enable a dynamic queue? This option is not available at WinBox for this kind of queue. This can be done via script?
It can be done on terminal. Not sure if disabling and enabling the queue actually causes the PPPoE user to be ratelimited again. Someone else in this thread heard it did.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:23 am

i think the discovery path is the following:
1. MT says: there isn't any problem;
2. MT says: we tested your configuration and didn't find anything;
after dozen mails and supout....
3. MT says it is a kernel issue
after months of posting..............
4. MT says we will fix it.

I hope MT will fix it ASAP.
Our experience is like this one:

1. MT says: there isn't any problem;
2. MT says: we tested your configuration and didn't find anything;
after dozen mails...
3. MT says: give us password of your router and we will investigate directly
4. MT says: you see there is not a problem.. (after print screen proofs)
after posting again on mikrotik forum
5. MT says: you are banned now on forum as forum is not a place for you (to post bugs of RouterOS)

And situation on forums:

1. We post about packet loss problem
2. Mikrotik "forum specialists" says: You do not know how to use mikrotik routeros
3. Mikrotik Support warns that we should not post about bugs on forum
4. We are banned from forum
5. Other mikrotik users report pppoe packet loss issue

You can read some in: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... &sk=t&sd=a

This particular problem was about packet loss in PPPoE in 3.xx versions. We are still on 2.9.51, but the big problem is random queue missing problem. We must restart it every 10-13 days. And we will not dare to upgrade to 3.11 as possible packet loss can appear.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:07 pm

we have done some fixes and improvements in simple queues and pcq, and made a special "test" package. if anyone is interested to test this package, and help mikrotik solve this problem, write to support
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:01 pm

we have done some fixes and improvements in simple queues and pcq, and made a special "test" package. if anyone is interested to test this package, and help mikrotik solve this problem, write to support
Thanks Normis.. this is what everybody here wants.. MK team trying to solve the problem.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:41 am

Take a look at these screen shots and let me know what you guys think. How could pppoe account for apt79 be getting 128k/8M when he is limited to 128k/256k. Is it the same issue that you are having ? I have attached some screen shots for apartment 79 who I caught one night. He is was getting 8M at the time !
pic1.JPG
Is the Queue working correctly for the PPPoe Connection ? I am using ROS 3.11, I know that Screenshots are 3.9 but the problem is still happening.

I noticed this before because the whole building is sometimes using upto 40Mb of bandwidth and this should not be happening as most if not all users are limited to 128k/256k. There are some 1M/3M connections but even if all logged in at the same time they would not sum to a demand of 40Mb-1.

What do you think ? Can someone fool the Mikrotik to give it unlimited bandwidth when connected by pppoe ? I though that someone had hacked the pppoe queue control !! Scary thought..

It is like the PPP Interface and the Queue Control has seperated or is not counting traffic correctly.
pic2.JPG
I monitor the overall link with Dude and do not have a daily traffic chart to show you but it is dramatic when the pppoe queue control is removed. You can see some examples on the weekly chart and remember that they are averaged down so you don't see the full speed that the user got at the time.
pic3.JPG
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:59 am

Forget about RX - take a look at TX on the opposite interface.

RX is received speed - it is before the actual limitation takes place.

you need to check both TXs:
1) for upload - TX on public interface
2) for download - TX on local interface
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:44 pm

The TX on ETH0 is the upload as ETH0 is the public interface.
I am just monitoring ETH0 in Dude for RX and TX as it shows me what the overall site is doing. It helps me spot inconsistancies in the sites bandwidth usage (thats all)

I do not have any IP address on ETH1 as I am using pppoe only on the local side.

The point is that pppoe user account apt79 in the screenshots is getting 9.5Mb Download as per the pppoe account dynamic interface, eventhough apt79 has a dynamic queue limitation of 256k Download/128k Upload as per the profile for his pppoe account. The queue limit appears correct eventhough the dynamic pppoe interface is not being controlled.

I used torch to check the amount of bandwidth that this user was getting by the public IP address that he is using (this is blanked out in the pictures above for privacy issues)

If I log apt79 out of the system "manually" when he reconnects he seems to be limited correctly again.

This happens with other users too randomly.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:27 pm

The TX on ETH0 is the upload as ETH0 is the public interface.
I am just monitoring ETH0 in Dude for RX and TX as it shows me what the overall site is doing. It helps me spot inconsistancies in the sites bandwidth usage (thats all)

I do not have any IP address on ETH1 as I am using pppoe only on the local side.

The point is that pppoe user account apt79 in the screenshots is getting 9.5Mb Download as per the pppoe account dynamic interface, eventhough apt79 has a dynamic queue limitation of 256k Download/128k Upload as per the profile for his pppoe account. The queue limit appears correct eventhough the dynamic pppoe interface is not being controlled.

I used torch to check the amount of bandwidth that this user was getting by the public IP address that he is using (this is blanked out in the pictures above for privacy issues)

If I log apt79 out of the system "manually" when he reconnects he seems to be limited correctly again.

This happens with other users too randomly.
This is exactly the same problem whe have. We will test this beta version that Normis is talking about to see what happens.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:06 am

It happened again last night. I have been running ROS 3.12 (Beta) that Mikrotik gave me to test and this is the first time that I have seen it all week. It usually happened at weekends in the past. Most users are at home then in this apartment block.

See DUDE graph. The upload speed of >12.5Mb is impossible with the customer base in the building.
pic5 (ROS3.12).JPG

Does anyone have a script that I could use to detect the excess usage and disconnect the pppoe account until this issue is solved ?
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:44 pm

It happened again last night. I have been running ROS 3.12 (Beta) that Mikrotik gave me to test and this is the first time that I have seen it all week. It usually happened at weekends in the past. Most users are at home then in this apartment block.

See DUDE graph. The upload speed of >12.5Mb is impossible with the customer base in the building.

Does anyone have a script that I could use to detect the excess usage and disconnect the pppoe account until this issue is solved ?
Bad news. I had some hope with this beta version.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:19 pm

ROS 3.12 is now released; change log tells that problem was fixed. Any one tested this version yet??
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:36 pm

ROS 3.12 is now released; change log tells that problem was fixed. Any one tested this version yet??
I hope this fix is not the same as 3.12 beta because as told above the problem was not fixed with this beta version.

Crossing my fingers..
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:31 pm

Any luck with 3.12 or 3.13?
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:39 pm

I've been watching this with keen eyes too. Almost our whole customer base is authenticated with PPPoE and have dynamic queues to limit each connection (Usermanager rocks!).

Does release 3.12 solve the dynamic queue issue in the field?
Keep tryin' its bound to work!!
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:59 pm

Does release 3.12 solve the dynamic queue issue in the field?
We have been running 3.12 for over 2 days now but it typically takes at least a week to act up so am not sure yet. So far so good though. Will likely update to 3.13 here shortly though.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:51 pm

any update from who is testing 3.13?

then please report also the platform, RB or x86.

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:52 am

Anyone? I had a user getting 10+mbps for a week.. Wasn't really effecting overall performance for the network but annoys me that this user was getting something for nothing ! :(

I'm about to bite the bullet and just try it myself...
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:00 am

[quote]Anyone? I had a user getting 10+mbps for a week.. Wasn't really effecting overall performance for the network but annoys me that this user was getting something for nothing ![quote]

Was running 3.12 shortly after it came out. Now running 3.13. Have not seen the issue YET. Its too soon to be sure though. Why not try it?

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:48 am

*** BUMP ***

Also waiting more feedback to see if this is finally done.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:31 am

Anyone? I had a user getting 10+mbps for a week.. Wasn't really effecting overall performance for the network but annoys me that this user was getting something for nothing !

Was running 3.12 shortly after it came out. Now running 3.13. Have not seen the issue YET. Its too soon to be sure though. Why not try it?

Matt
For us is pretty difficult to upgrade a pppoe server because we use some voip pppoe client that some time lockup when the pppoe server reboots.
So think about 1800..........calls during early morning...,,,,,,,

I will do it when i will be sure to fix this issse and not broke everything else.

regards
ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:41 pm

any update from who is testing 3.13?

then please report also the platform, RB or x86.

Regards
Ros
We updated some MK routers (x86) to 3.13 where we have more problems with this bug. But we have to wait some days to see.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:55 pm

BAD NEWS!!!

We had the same problem today with version 3.13. User was using more than 4Mbits while he was limit to 1Mbit. As always queue was only displaying 1Mbit in use while at interface we can see more than 4Mbits in use.

SO THIS PROBLEM WAS NOT SOLVED!!!!!!!
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:05 pm

Can anyone confirm this?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:13 pm

Can anyone confirm this?
Yes,
RouterOS 3.13v + x86 not solved , the problem still lives .... unfortunately :(
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:04 pm

Can anyone confirm this?
Yes,
RouterOS 3.13v + x86 not solved , the problem still lives .... unfortunately :(
very disappointed!!!!

we fight each day with invalid queue. They are the oldest but very annoing to catch.

it is still a great bug MT MUST FIX ASAP.

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:50 pm

Hi all, just to add - 3.13 also x86 (WRAP) does seem to still have the queue issue, We are seeing something strange, Winbox will report some PPPoE clients moving 20Mbit/s, but that sort of speed is impossible at some of our towers, as some are only fed 5Mbit.

We are rolling back to an earlier version :shock:
Keep tryin' its bound to work!!
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:22 pm

Ops, maybe we are being misled to believe the clients are using the extra bandwidth without actually using it?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:39 pm

Hi all, just to add - 3.13 also x86 (WRAP) does seem to still have the queue issue, We are seeing something strange, Winbox will report some PPPoE clients moving 20Mbit/s, but that sort of speed is impossible at some of our towers, as some are only fed 5Mbit.

We are rolling back to an earlier version :shock:
This is not what is happening to us. The traffic we saw on PPPoE interface was the real one in use (we could see it at radio interface used for MK backhaul). When it was displaying 4Mbits on interface he was really using it (but this traffic was not displayed in queue).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:41 pm

Ops, maybe we are being misled to believe the clients are using the extra bandwidth without actually using it?
No, they are really using it. We can see the over traffic at all equipments (switchs, routers, radios, etc).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 am

We usually see the traffic on the PPPoE interface but there queue displays zero for traffic. And the client is really getting that bandwidth. Kind of pain when user paying for 256k lite account pulls movies off bittorrent at 6mbps all weekend.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:34 am

we too see zero bandwidth on queue and realspeed on the pppoe interface.
pushing to reauthenticating the customer fix the issue.

So during the day we are going to be the queue cop!!!! very annoing.

Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:32 am

A very quick script to schedule every hour
{ /interface pppoe-server
 server disable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server disable "1"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "1"
 :log info "Cycle PPPoE Servers"
}
Where n (0, 1, 2 etc) is the column number of your PPPoE server list by issuing at the terminal :
/interface pppoe-server server print
This will cycle all PPPoE clients on n interface. When they reconnect a new queue is created that works for a while :roll: MT CPE will usually reconnect seamlessly meaning an outage of around 12 seconds
Keep tryin' its bound to work!!
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:51 am

anyone who can give full remote access to your router (with missing queue problem - where queue is shown, but not working for the specific customer), please contact support and we will look !
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:03 pm

A very quick script to schedule every hour
{ /interface pppoe-server
 server disable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server disable "1"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "1"
 :log info "Cycle PPPoE Servers"
}
Where n (0, 1, 2 etc) is the column number of your PPPoE server list by issuing at the terminal :
/interface pppoe-server server print
This will cycle all PPPoE clients on n interface. When they reconnect a new queue is created that works for a while :roll: MT CPE will usually reconnect seamlessly meaning an outage of around 12 seconds
But this script will stop the user connection? If it break a download or a TCP session is useless for us (our users already claim a lot when we need to reboot MK for maintenance).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:16 pm

the best way is to contact MT to give them the access to the pppoe server to install the debug package.

I at the moment could not give this possibility so any help from the community is welcomen.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:33 pm

anyone who can give full remote access to your router (with missing queue problem - where queue is shown, but not working for the specific customer), please contact support and we will look !
Please, if someone could do this it would be of great help!
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:42 pm

A very quick script to schedule every hour
{ /interface pppoe-server
 server disable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "0"
 :delay 8s
 server disable "1"
 :delay 8s
 server enable "1"
 :log info "Cycle PPPoE Servers"
}
Where n (0, 1, 2 etc) is the column number of your PPPoE server list by issuing at the terminal :
/interface pppoe-server server print
This will cycle all PPPoE clients on n interface. When they reconnect a new queue is created that works for a while :roll: MT CPE will usually reconnect seamlessly meaning an outage of around 12 seconds

This is not a very viable solution... Think of the overhead with the amount of calls to the RADIUS and MySQL servers for authentication.. Although it will fix the queue problem, it will also piss off a lot of customers.
William Burnett
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:44 pm

anyone who can give full remote access to your router (with missing queue problem - where queue is shown, but not working for the specific customer), please contact support and we will look !
Normis,

Does it have to be the latest ROS release 3.13? I have three they can look at all which are running 2.9.51.


-Bill
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:50 pm


But this script will stop the user connection? If it break a download or a TCP session is useless for us (our users already claim a lot when we need to reboot MK for maintenance).
You could try setting the delay to 3 seconds in the hope that the MT CPE's will reconnect etc before 7 seconds (after 7 seconds packets are dropped at the CPE) if that is possible they wont notice it.
Keep tryin' its bound to work!!
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:58 pm

Today I saw a new error behavior for pppoe and queue (at least was the first time I saw it).

A user was using a lot more bandwidth than was limit with queue. He was using more than 4Mbits and it was congesting others users. So we forced him to disconnect and reconnect. But it didn´t solve the problem. After reconnect he starts to use overlimits. We disconnect him sereval times but didn´t work this time. So I opened torch to a look at his traffic and we found a UDP connection for port 80 (weird) using more than 4Mbits. I create a firewall rule (as the first rule) on MK firewall table to block all UDP traffic over port 80. Then this rule started to capture and drop it, but when I checked the rule statistic is was only maching part of this traffic, coincidentally the same amount displayed at queue statistics (but at pppoe interface statistic we could see a lot more, and this was the really one being used).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:14 am

of course it has to be v3.13 - the one that has this problem!
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:19 am

Hi Normis,

every mt version since 2.9.x has this bug.

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:21 am

Hi Normis,

every mt version since 2.9.x has this bug.

Regards
Ros
we will not modify old versions. we can ONLY fix the latest one. there are already lots of changes in the pppoe and queue programs
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:14 pm

So, you will not attempt to correct pppoe missing queues in 2.9.51 ? If you know what is the problem, it will be very easy to make 2.9.52 with correction?

I think that here is a lot of mikrotik users, who uses 2.9.51 for pppoe and are stuck with queue missing problem like us. We use 2.9.51 and must restart pppoe server every 10 days when queue missing problem appears.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:20 pm

was someone able to give MT guys the access to the pppoe server?

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:10 pm

was someone able to give MT guys the access to the pppoe server?

regards
Ros
We are trying to do that.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:01 am

many thanks josefranco.

Hope MT will reward you about this great help.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:30 pm

many thanks josefranco.

Hope MT will reward you about this great help.

regards
Ros
I just hope they find the problem and fix it.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:18 pm

Hi josefranco,

may you update on the status of progress?
Still qaiting about the queue issue come up?

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:27 pm

Hi josefranco,

may you update on the status of progress?
Still qaiting about the queue issue come up?

regards
Ros
Nothing yet. They are unable to enter my Mk router (I created a port forward rule and it works for me outside my network but doesn´t work for them)
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:10 pm

Were are seeing the issue on 3.13 yet as well. What makes it a real pain is a user gets like several meg upload for a few days but then later after connection goes up and down they are locked back at 512k upload. Then they call complaining the connection is not working right. Argh. Hopefully Mikrotik gets this fixed soon.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:47 pm

Were are seeing the issue on 3.13 yet as well. What makes it a real pain is a user gets like several meg upload for a few days but then later after connection goes up and down they are locked back at 512k upload. Then they call complaining the connection is not working right. Argh. Hopefully Mikrotik gets this fixed soon.

Matt
Can you please contact MikroTik support team and grant them access to your router so they can investigate what is going on? They prompted to help but we need someone with the problem.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:38 pm

Were are seeing the issue on 3.13 yet as well. What makes it a real pain is a user gets like several meg upload for a few days but then later after connection goes up and down they are locked back at 512k upload. Then they call complaining the connection is not working right. Argh. Hopefully Mikrotik gets this fixed soon.

Matt
Hi Matt, you only saw it happening for upload or already happened with download? Did you take a look at user traffic with torch for example to see what it was?

I´m asking this based on some observations I have done. There is at least one situation where the queue will not solve and there is nothing that can be done. This is when a huge upload traffic is generated using UDP protocol. If such kind of traffic is generated the queue will drop the traffic for outside (to internet) interface but the traffic can reach the internal interface of the router using entire nic or radio bandwidth, since UDP has no flow control. When this happens your internet link will not be flooded but your internal network (wired or wireless) will be, compromising other users.

I already saw this problem happening and if I can´t hardlimit user bandwidth before reaching MK router nothing can be done to solve it.

Of course this doesn´t explain when download is not limited, if upload traffic is TCP or if you can see the high traffic after queue in outside interface (I already had problems in both cases).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:35 am

This is first time in a while I noticed it on upload. It was TCP traffic and not UDP so thats not the issue. We see it all the time on download traffic.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:26 am

Hi josefranco,

may you update on the status of progress?
Still qaiting about the queue issue come up?

regards
Ros
Nothing yet. They are unable to enter my Mk router (I created a port forward rule and it works for me outside my network but doesn´t work for them)
I think happen because you have a multihome router behind a nat.
So their connection enter one side and exit other side.
So I think when you tri to enter, you are lucky becasue you connection enter and exit on the same internet connection.

So take a look into it.
So will be close to an end of this issue.

Or could HCI so kind to contact MT to give them access to the router?

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:31 am

Or could HCI so kind to contact MT to give them access to the router?
I have not gotten a response from Mikrotik on the ticket I opened with them on this last week. Hopefully they got everything figured and 3.14 will solve this even so.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:08 am

Hi Normis,
please may you check the HCI ticket?!?!!?!??!?!?!

it is strange asking support ro access a router with the issue and then not reply to such ticket!

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:37 pm

Hi Normis,
please may you check the HCI ticket?!?!!?!??!?!?!

it is strange asking support ro access a router with the issue and then not reply to such ticket!

Regards
Ros
It will be great if they can give you MSN address, it will be easier.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:46 am

HCI did not send us access. Support asked for access, and we didn't receive any response.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:01 am

Sorry to hear that, seems that people are more into complaining than into helping...
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:02 pm

Sorry to hear that, seems that people are more into complaining than into helping...
I don´t know about HCI but we are trying everything here to allow MK team to access our machine. We are even planning to change our MK to valid IP address just to allow it.

We have this problem every week, sometimes more than once per week. This monday he saw 3 users connected in the same MKT router consuming much more than queue download limit (as always queues shows zero usage for download when each one was using more than 2Mbits).
Last edited by josefranco on Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:03 pm

we got access to hci router too now
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:07 pm

we got access to hci router too now
Good news Normis..
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:06 pm

Gotta wait tell off peak to reboot and install test package. Then I imagine it will be a while before it acts up. Will let Mikrotik know when its in.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:32 pm

any update on this issue?

regards
ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:09 am

The diagnostic package Mikrotik gave me had been installed in the router this weekend. Problem is our DS3 circuit that ties us to Internet at this location went down this morning. The new DS3 was supposed to be SO much more reliable then the old T1's. The LEC has been here working on it for hours. We had a massive amount of lightning here as well.

I will email Mikrotik when they can get in.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:44 pm

Hi hci,

did the lec repair the damaged circuit?
Is everything back to normal?

hope so.

Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:04 am

20 hours after it went down they got it fixed. Was not a happy camper. Argh.

Shortly after it came back up Tuesday I emailed Mikrotik. They have access. Will email them the moment I see it act up as well.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:22 pm

when I see the problem we have also another problem:
- little packet loss or increased jitter (for all the pppoe client) at the moment a new pppoe itnerface is added.

This bug seems fixed in an earlier version but it seems to be present again when an user is able to go over the wueue limit.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:30 am

* BUMP *

Hi, any news here?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:50 am

Mikrotik has access to my router and has special option package installed. Its acting up as I type this and I notified them by email yesterday that it was acting up. So, its wait and see what they say. Have not heard back yet, but its monday too.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:45 pm

Hi HCI,

did you see some packet loss (on the others) during an addition of a pppoe client interface apart of the missing queue?
It is araisng when i have more then 900 pppoe clients with some of them are missing the queue.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:53 pm

did you see some packet loss (on the others) during an addition of a pppoe client interface apart of the missing queue? It is araisng when i have more then 900 pppoe clients with some of them are missing the queue.
We have our PPPoE users split between two geographically seperate PPPoE access servers and neither at this time sees over 650 active connections at a given moment. Many users have single PC and/or connect on demand. I have not noticed any packet loss issues but thats not saying there are none. Perhaps you should have given Mikrotik access to your router?

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:24 pm

any comment from Normis????

thanks
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:07 pm

thanks to hci, we have solved this issue. we will continue working with volunteers to make sure it fixes it for good.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Wow! This is a huge accomplishment!

Congratulations MT guys, hci for the teamwork!

Normis, do you have any idea of when this fix will be rolled out?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:47 pm

depends on the results from people who test it
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:56 pm

Is there anyway to help?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:00 pm

maybe. contact support if you have a large pppoe server with this issue
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:08 pm

The router that Mikrotik worked on this morning has been rebooted to affect there changes. Typically after a reboot it takes a week or more for the issue to show back up or at least be noticeable. Perhaps Normis knows more on why it works that way. They seem pretty confident they found the issue though. Its really a wait and see to be sure.

Thanks Normis.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:13 pm

is it a test package about 3.13 or based on 3.14 rc1?

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:57 am

is it a test package about 3.13 or based on 3.14 rc1?

regards
Ros
latest unreleased build I think
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:32 pm

Hi Normis,

may you confirm that the fix is into the final 3.14?
In fact into the change log I don't see anything about pppoe.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:27 am

Hi Normis,

may you confirm that the fix is into the final 3.14?
In fact into the change log I don't see anything about pppoe.

regards
Ros
we are still testing if the fix works
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:06 pm

Hi normis,

I am waiting a fix for a long time. I have 5 pppoe servers and all with this issue. I found a way to work around this problem without restarting the machine. If you have a static simple/tree like p2p control only you need is disable and enable this queues and the pppoe queues will work good.

Friends, try this and post if it works!
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:58 pm

Posted accidently. Deleted.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:17 pm

Well - another bug found, thanks to HCI.

We were pretty lucky actually by finding and fixing this bug:

every 32768th simple queue or 65536th queue tree have no effective limitations.


In HCI's situation it took ~2days until 32768th queue was created, but if clients don't use traffic it is impossible to capture. But luckuly we managed it.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:58 pm

Well - another bug found, thanks to HCI.

We were pretty lucky actually by finding and fixing this bug:

every 32768th simple queue or 65536th queue tree have no effective limitations.


In HCI's situation it took ~2days until 32768th queue was created, but if clients don't use traffic it is impossible to capture. But luckuly we managed it.

Excellent news!!! signed and unsigned int variable sizes.. Do you know in which version this fix will be included?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:11 pm

it will be included into 3.15

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:12 pm

wow, good find!
 
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exe
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:18 pm

I found a way to work around this problem without restarting the machine. If you have a static simple/tree like p2p control only you need is disable and enable this queues and the pppoe queues will work good.

Friends, try this and post if it works!

Yes this works!!!

Can you tell me if this works all the time after you disable/enable static queues or it works for period like when you restart machine?
it will be included into 3.15
What about 2.9.52 ?
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parrini
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:58 pm

What about 2.9.52 ?
I dont think there will be any backports to 2.x series anymore because the versions are too different.
 
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exe
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:46 am

I dont think there will be any backports to 2.x series anymore because the versions are too different.
But, bug is the same.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:47 am

But, bug is the same.
But it will be fixed in later version, in 3.15 =)
Russian-speaking forum: https://forum.mikrotik.by/. Welcome!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

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parrini
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:35 pm

I dont think there will be any backports to 2.x series anymore because the versions are too different.
But, bug is the same.
The problem is that, fixing bugs in two releases, duplicates the work and defeats the purpose of releasing a new version. It's true that the release system of MikroTik could be a little more sophisticated and I think they should estabilish official end of life dates to each release overlapping with new major releases and be clear about what fixes would be supported and for how long but, for now, that's the way it is...
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:06 am

so where's 3.15? :)
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:32 pm

impatiently waiting... :)
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:55 am

I am using 2.9.50, in 2.9.50 i didnt see that problem at all.
may be i didnt see ;)
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:36 am

I am using 2.9.50, in 2.9.50 i didnt see that problem at all.
may be i didnt see ;)
You do not have enough traffic to reach 32768th simple queue.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:32 pm

I imagine HCI is running a fixed beta version for this problem.

Maybe he could give us a feedback if this problem was solved (or if he is still waiting for 3.15 like us).
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:00 pm

Got to 8 days of uptime on it without it acting up. Unfortunately do to some power outages lately thats all the uptime I have on it. Twice now when we cut from UPS to generator we have had reboot issue. Time to revamp our backup system.

Anyway, usually it acted up at 5-7 days of uptime for me. I think they have it fixed. But until I have like 30 days of uptime with no issues I am not sure. Perhaps if they tested on some more heavy loaded PPPoE access servers we would know more.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:52 am

I'd love to test on ours.. I have 3 PPPoE servers with 300+ users on each all with reliable power..

Had a user using 10+mbps the other day.. really was killing one of our high priority links.. luckily it happened while I was monitoring the network..
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:19 pm

I'd love to test on ours.. I have 3 PPPoE servers with 300+ users on each all with reliable power..
Email Mikrotik and offer them access to your router to do this.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:44 pm

Just did.
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:05 pm

may MT confirm the HCI fix is inside the 3.15?

I don't see it into the change log.

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:44 pm

may MT confirm the HCI fix is inside the 3.15?

I don't see it into the change log.

regards
Ros

Here we go again...

...and out of the window goes the idea of a release candidate in a feature changing release...

...good luck to us all!
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:50 pm

may MT confirm the HCI fix is inside the 3.15?

I don't see it into the change log.

regards
Ros
I really don´t understand why they do that.

We really need this information MK guys!
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:11 pm

hi Normis,
why you are not responding to latest question?

is it the fix inside the 3.15?????
please i need a confirmation ASAP.

regrads
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:26 pm

I now have over 10 days of uptime on my 3.13 release patched by Mikrotik and its still not acting up. Looks like they may have gotten it fixed. No idea if the fix is in 3.15 though.

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:25 pm

I have upgraded to 3.15 and I am running it for about a week, and I don't see this problem, I have about 50 Users. I monitor interfaces and users get the speed that they have in PPPoE profiles.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:42 pm

I have upgraded to 3.15 and I am running it for about a week, and I don't see this problem, I have about 50 Users. I monitor interfaces and users get the speed that they have in PPPoE profiles.
what hardware are you running?

regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:50 pm

I have PC Router with this hardware configuration:
Fujitsu Siemens with Intel P4 2.0GHz procesor
512 MB RAM

And now Winbox does not freeze like before, now most of the time it does not freeze to me, sometimes yes.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:58 pm

Have 17+ days of uptime on 3.13 with fixes from Mikrotik and no PPPoE queues are acting up. Did anyone find out if 3.15 has these fixes in it?

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:19 pm

Have 17+ days of uptime on 3.13 with fixes from Mikrotik and no PPPoE queues are acting up. Did anyone find out if 3.15 has these fixes in it?

Matt
No response from MK team.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:24 pm

Have 17+ days of uptime on 3.13 with fixes from Mikrotik and no PPPoE queues are acting up. Did anyone find out if 3.15 has these fixes in it?

Matt
Janis confirmed me that 3.15 ha the HCI fix inside.

But I am scary to upgrade my x386 boxes becasue the 3.15 has the new kernel not so compatible with the multicore cpu


Regards
Ros
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:38 pm

Have 17+ days of uptime on 3.13 with fixes from Mikrotik and no PPPoE queues are acting up. Did anyone find out if 3.15 has these fixes in it?

Matt
Janis confirmed me that 3.15 ha the HCI fix inside.

But I am scary to upgrade my x386 boxes becasue the 3.15 has the new kernel not so compatible with the multicore cpu


Regards
Ros

So it´s useless for us.. have to wait for multi-core CPU fix now. It´s hard to believe. Can´t HCI post his 3.13 fixed version for us?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:34 pm

Anybody here knows if version 3.16 fixed multi-core CPU problems included in version 3.15?

I need the fix for queue but also need to use dual core CPUs.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:08 pm

I don't know if it's a multi-core bug, but there's still a problem with 3.15 and 3.16 with timers: clock goes at least two times faster than real clock on a dual-core CPU.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:41 pm

time problem is not fix in 3.16
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:00 pm

Swap CPU's to a really fast single core for time being?

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:51 pm

Swap CPU's to a really fast single core for time being?

Matt
This is not a solution for me. If I went to dual core CPU was because I already reach the limit for single core CPU.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:32 pm

Any news about this issue?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:16 pm

Any news about this issue?
What issue? Its gone!

Matt
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:20 pm

Any news about this issue?
What issue? Its gone!

Matt
Really?
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:47 pm

Any news about this issue?
What issue? Its gone!

Matt
What version are you using? We are still in 3.13 because vesions after 3.13 are not stable for dual core CPU.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:59 pm

Oh, do not use dual core here. Does change log say they fixed dual core issues? We are running 3.16 on single core 1.8ghz socket 775 CPU. 14 days of uptime and no queue issues.
 
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Re: PPPOE and random queue missing problem

Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:37 am

I'm sorry but was there ever any difference between how v3.13 works with dual-core and how v3.16 works with dual core? if it works in v3.13, then it should work with the other versions too
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