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jp
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virtualization

Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:31 pm

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Virtualization

I like it!

I like it even more because it's documented before it's released, making it easier to try once it is available.
 
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Re: virtualization

Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:19 am

Now we only need a VMware package... :)
 
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Re: virtualization

Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:50 am

Just to spark conversation...

Why?
Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmm"...

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Re: virtualization

Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:23 am

So you can run multiple RouterOS instances on a single host.

I think Mikrotik would have been better off to implement "Virtual Domains" as a feature of the OS. This would have a master option for enabling VDOM's. When enabled, you could create individual RouterOS VDOM instances via WinBox/CLI without having to manually create images, it would just install a RouterOS base. There would be the "root" vdom which is the HOST os, and is connected to for management of interfaces and vdom's. From the root vdom you could "switch" into the sub vdom instances for admin, however interfaces would still be controlled from the root vdom and assigned to sub vdoms.

This would make it seem like a more professional system.

Hell, with a combo of this and CARP like functionality it would be bloody impressive.
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Re: virtualization

Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:15 pm

what about licensing of virtual routers?
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Re: virtualization

Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:05 pm

i for one can not wait to try this, it has potentially so many applications, especially in a DC environment. i can foresee a licensing model similar to user-manager, where you have have up to 5-10 instances on Level 3-5, and then unlimited on Level6.

keep up the good work guys!
 
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Re: virtualization

Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:18 pm

Can you share some application Examples ?
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Re: virtualization

Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:53 pm

gmsmstr

I guess this is one application example:

x86 Hardware base.

RouterOS is installed, and then inside the Xen hypervisor there, we install CentOS 5 with a squid proxy setup.

Maybe that is a way to get a nice R-OS and Proxy server mix going. Might get around some of the issues that folks have with the RouterOS web proxy.

Rgds

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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:24 am

@ alex_rhys-hurn, i think i missed the part where it is actually a virtualization product that will allow you to install other operating systems, i think it should just virtualize mikrotik instances only. at least that is my perception what the xen package should accomplish for mikrotik, no reason to run other operating systems on an actual mikrotik router.

@gmsmstr, i for one can see an excellent opportunity to offer DC customers their own firewall/router/vpn server/dude instances that can be managed by us or the client themselves.
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:00 am

One of the big problems with virtualization is that it allows and encourages a wide variety of operating systems and roles to be to be in once place with no firewalling or minimal separation. For the datacenter, MT can be part of the solution for taming this.

At a branch office or small business, one box could be the MT router, VOIP system, file/email server, all in one powersaving and spacesaving box.

For training and testing, it could be a good feature for MT corporate and individual students. We could use one PC to setup a network of multiple virtual MTs communicating with each other to learn new network features. MT themselves could use the ease of creating, rebooting, destroying virtual MTs to automate software release testing to a further extent.
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:20 pm

The dude packages are nice. I can see that as being very important. The only key issue I see is how people are going to deal with getting the connectivity though the router, that has 6 or 20 other routers on it. Usually a router is a hardware piece, either it be a x86 solution or not. I could see a "combined" package with say, your router, plus server on a virtual piece. The question comes in can you create multiple connections to multiple virtual servers.

I have used virtual servers in the past and I do like the thoughts behind it. Just wishing to understand how this is a great improvement. Course, I look at some of my hardware, like the 2200 Series PowerRouters and think that these powerhouses would be ideal for MT. Lots of Power, solid hardware etc.
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:28 pm

@gmsmstr, first thought that came to my mind in dealing with multiple mikrotik instances and customers was: VLAN baby, VLAN! I can see us throwing one of our spare Rackable C2004's at this and adding a dual/quad gige into it as well, lots of horse power.
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:18 pm

Figured as much. Something else I was thinking is dropping in a private network, and doing a PPTP connection to get a public.. :) Or PPPoE :)
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:29 pm

is this xen only allowed on VT capable chips? If it is thats good, if not, then I could see it will cause many problems with older i386 boxes that aren't made for virtualization.
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:33 pm

Some non VT capable chips will do paravirtualization, and it looks like the MT mentions supporting this. This doesn't mean all i386 compatible systems can do virtualization; just a larger subset than the present built-for-virtualization processors, perhaps most processors built in the past two-three years instead of those from the past 18 months.
 
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:03 am

i386 do support virtualization - there is just a larger overhead handling VM exceptions than on the processors supporting VT feature.
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:55 am

I love you guys, first MPLS, and now Xen! :shock:

Now just add un-modified DomU support so we can run Windows on MT (yuck, I know), and iSCSI support so the OS images don't need to be local, and I may just be able to replace _EVERYTHING_ with MikroTiks.

Truly awesome work! :D
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:39 am

HI..

Awesome feature...As it is not that old...and has recently been integrated on LINUX platform...I think it is one of the most greatest achievements of MT...

GO MT GO!!!! :lol:
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:37 am

In this version 3.11 with XEN , its possible Virtualize Windows Server ? or only Linux or Mikrotik ROS ?

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Re: virtualization

Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:13 am

Wow you guys are on fire! A big thanks to Mikrotik!! Now if I could only get UDP support in OpenVPN.
 
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Re: virtualization

Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:23 am

does the rb1000 support VT ??
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:43 pm

According to description in MikroTik Wiki here XEN virtualization should be in ROS 3.11. I installed this version on x86 router but 'xen' package isn't here and nor in extension packages.

Where is the virtualization support? Will be delayed or so?
 
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:59 pm

I'm sure it is.
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:09 am

Now here it goes... created an img, created a guest config, added a vif (network), enabled the guest and it throws an error: failed to setup vm. Am i missing something? a config.script? What should it be there that it's not?

Nice work guys. In contrast to what some might think ... I can think of a Billion zillion uses for this feature. An Unexpected evolution but very very useful and pleasant! nice one! :)
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:31 am

How much memory do you have in PC and how is guest VM configured? The most likely cause of such error is covered here:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Virtualiz ... t_RouterOS
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:55 am

Yap that was it Thanks! I had plenty of free memory but still ... :D Anyways First VROS is UP ...I am a happy bunny now! Moving right on exploring this to the limit :D
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:03 pm

where can one get 'xen' package?.. cannot find it anywhere...
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:53 pm

 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:00 pm

OK. I suppose that this package is intended for x86 platform.

Can you tell please where did you obtained this link? It's not linked from download site and his directory hasn't enabled browsing. :?
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:11 pm

Link is already available at: http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html

Virtualization package - Highly experimental!
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:42 pm

All I get is:


[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name="Img.img"
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name="RouterOS.img"
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros1.img
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros1.img file-size=32
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros1.img file-size=32
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros1.img file-size=32
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros1.img file-size=32
failure: failed to copy
[admin@LAB MikroTik] /xen>

Any ides ??
Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmm"...

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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:11 pm

csickles, are you sure that 32mb in your case is enough ? On my installation it does not work well too.
[admin@namai] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros.img file-size=48
action timed out - try again, if error continues contact MikroTik support and send a supout file (13)

[admin@namai] /xen> /file print 
 # NAME                                         TYPE                                        SIZE       CREATION-TIME       
 0 MikroTik-01062008-0559.backup                backup                                      311474     jun/01/2008 05:59:51
 1 MikroTik-01072008-0559.backup                backup                                      427426     jul/01/2008 05:59:50
 2 ros.img                                      .img file                                   50331648   jul/09/2008 23:07:15

[admin@namai] /xen> /system resource print 
                   uptime: 5m2s
                  version: "3.11"
              free-memory: 23872kB
             total-memory: 47640kB
                      cpu: "Pentium"
                cpu-count: 1
            cpu-frequency: 448MHz
                 cpu-load: 7
           free-hdd-space: 152768kB
          total-hdd-space: 242442kB
  write-sect-since-reboot: 175240
         write-sect-total: 1049908
        architecture-name: "x86"
               board-name: "x86"
 
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:10 am

well for me,
[admin@MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name="rosss" file-size=36MiB

[admin@MikroTik] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name="rossss" file-size=36   
worked as you can see, in initial testing i took size of the image that is usual size of nand on RouterBOARD, that is 128 MB, have not seen any problems while creating 64MiB files. (and DOM that MT was selling was 128MB)

it highly depends on number of packages that you have installed on the router.

this is my package list:
[admin@MikroTik] /xen> /system package print 
Flags: X - disabled 
 #   NAME                                       VERSION                                       SCHEDULED              
 0 X mpls                                       3.11                                                                 
 1   option                                     3.11                                                                 
 2   xen                                        3.11                                                                 
 3   routeros-x86                               3.11                                                                 
 4   ipv6                                       3.11                                                                 
 5   routerboard                                3.11                                                                 
 6   wireless                                   3.11                                                                 
 7   hotspot                                    3.11                                                                 
 8   dhcp                                       3.11                                                                 
 9   routing                                    3.11                                                                 
10   ppp                                        3.11                                                                 
11   security                                   3.11                                                                 
12   advanced-tools                             3.11                                                                 
13   multicast                                  3.11                                                                 
14   system                                     3.11
Also, you not only can run RouterOS on the xen, any xen capable kernel/OS can be loaded. On my testbed i have several routeros running and 1 linux
 
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:42 pm

I have noticed something strange in this version. I don't know weather its a version thing or in a combination with the Xen package, since i have upgraded straight away including the Xen package.
The CPU utilization has dramatically dropped and i do not think the measurements represent the real strain that is put on the machine. I had about 60% utilization (6 Nstream bb links, 1 AP, NATs and Mangles) which has dropped to 9-15% together with a vROS for testing. Something is not right.

As for the PIII guys. Yes you might be able to setup a Xen guest or two in paravirtualized mode, but going down the Virtualization road with a machine like this is a bit far fetched. :)
Last edited by NetTraptor on Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:08 pm

i got it working after a few tries. i changed the ram assigned to the host first, then rebooted for it to reassign it.

my problem is that the instant i connect with winbox to the guest the host will instantly reboot itself. if i only use CLI it works fine.
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Re: virtualization

Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:16 pm

Managed to solve a problem mentioned before. Just for a note, it doesn't work if Host ROS is running on VMWare Server.
Starting...
Checking disk integrity...
No errors found.

hwclock: Could not access RTC: No such file or directory
Starting services...

Demo license expired!
Please reinstall the router.

connect failed (errno=2)


Shutting down...
Stopping services...
connect failed (errno=2)
hwclock: Could not access RTC: No such file or directory
System halted.
janisk, regarding "action timed out - try again", suppose you should try reproducing that issue on slower hardware.
 
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Re: virtualization

Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:46 am

is there a possibility to map usb/serial ports to virtual machine? I have an UPS (Winner 2000) I want to monitor, but ROS do not support it, so I want to install some small virtual Linux for UPS monitoring...
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:40 am

hello guys, i need a information of this new feature... its posible charge the OS guest image on webproxy harddisk ??

sorry the "indian english"
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:56 am

it is only possible to store guest os image on the main harddrive of the router where files in /file menu resides


and - about how slow hardware we are talking where you get the errors?

my testbed is 3GHz C2D (45nm) with 2GB RAM 80GB HDD
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:21 am

is there a possibility to map usb/serial ports to virtual machine?
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:38 pm

It worked for me well on 3Ghz too. But there's a problem running it on:
version: "3.11"
free-memory: 23872kB
total-memory: 47640kB
cpu: "Pentium"
cpu-count: 1
cpu-frequency: 448MHz

[admin@namai] /xen> make-routeros-image file-name=ros.img file-size=48
action timed out - try again, if error continues contact MikroTik support and send a supout file (13)

and - about how slow hardware we are talking where you get the errors?

my testbed is 3GHz C2D (45nm) with 2GB RAM 80GB HDD
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:21 pm

I wanted to give the xen package a test. After installing it on a pcengines Board (i know this wasn't powerful enough for virtualisation - but i had it in spare ;o) ) and rebooting, the board starts to permantly reboot in an endless loop. No chance to get it up working again.
A feature or boot option to start without xen would be great to not loose all former settings if accindently installed...

But overall: Great work folks!
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:46 pm

I wanted to give the xen package a test. After installing it on a pcengines Board (i know this wasn't powerful enough for virtualisation - but i had it in spare ;o) ) and rebooting, the board starts to permantly reboot in an endless loop. No chance to get it up working again.
A feature or boot option to start without xen would be great to not loose all former settings if accindently installed...

But overall: Great work folks!
on what hardware you installed the xen package and what you see on the display (when rebooting) when you attach it to the hardware?
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:54 pm

on what hardware you installed the xen package and what you see on the display (when rebooting) when you attach it to the hardware?
PCEngines - miniATX with AMD Geode 500MHz CPU - 256 MB RAM. I know this isn't powerful enough and it hasn't VT but it is 386based ;o)
You see ROS coming up something like "booting xen hypervisor" - than black screen and reboot.
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:22 pm

If all else fails do a netinstall keeping the old config without uploading the XEN package... :)

VT is not required as all guests run paravirtualized
 
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:08 am

i tried run the centos and clark c. images in guest mode ... but the message appear it's:

config error on VM

the configs its same at the wiki....

any one can probe this images and tell me if work fine??

thanks and please!!! share the documentation for vitualization
 
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:47 am

If all else fails do a netinstall keeping the old config without uploading the XEN package... :)

VT is not required as all guests run paravirtualized
Problem is: the PCengines Board supports booting from LAN but won't boot from netinstall.
I had to extract the CF Card and reinstall it on another PC. :?
 
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Re: virtualization

Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:50 pm

please guys... tell me any one can run the centos or clark images on mikrotik xen ?
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:14 pm

i can.

when talking about clark - you have to have correct image downloaded from them, the link can be found in wiki. the other image does not contain xen, hence, it cannot be loaded.

talking about linux images - you have to upload vlinuz image and image containing actual linux. also kernel HAVE TO SUPPORT xen, otherwise you will not be able to boot anything.
 
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Re: virtualization

Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:27 pm

tks, I download the images of the wiki and can't run this images on mkrt :? and put same configuration

http://www.mikrotik.com/download/centos.tar.bz2 link 4 downlaod ...

and

add disk=hda disk-image=centos.img initrd=centos.initrd.rgz kernel=vmlinuz-2.6.18-53.el5xen kernel-cmdline="ro root=/dev/hda1" memory=512 name=centos

i need change the "disk=hda disk-image=centos.img" for "disk=hda:centos.img" but the first line not recognized in console mode, and second pass...


again sorry my bad english
and tks for your comprehension
 
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janisk
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:48 pm

everything is working for me:
xen add console-telnet-port=64002 cpu-count=1 disk-images=hda:centos.img initrd=centos.initrd.rgz kernel=vmlinuz-2.6.18-53.el5xen kernel-cmdline="root=/dev/hda1" memory=256MiB name=centos weight=256
[admin@MikroTik] /xen> console centos 

[Ctrl-A is the prefix key]



CentOS release 5 (Final)
Kernel 2.6.18-53.el5xen on an i686

centos login: 
running 2 systems on my testbed:
[admin@MikroTik] > xen print 
Flags: X - disabled, C - configuration-changed 
 #   NAME                                                     MEMORY        WEIGHT STATE                       
 0 X clark                                                    1024MiB       256    disabled                    
 1   xROS                                                     128MiB        256    running                     
 2   centos                                                   256MiB        256    running          
 
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Campano
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:52 pm

the same configuration on my mikrotik with Demo license fail,

the license limit the posibility of probe the virtualization ??
 
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Re: virtualization

Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:57 pm

im sure it does... : )

My big question for today - what good is virtualization of routers if the traffic still has to traverse the hosts routerOS interface ? It would be very nice to assign the NIC card / resources to the guest directly using Xen. It would also be nice to assign a wlan interface directly to the guest. I don't know enough about Xen, but isn't it that possible? Maybe only in VT setups?
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Re: virtualization

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:41 am

today in the night I can probe in mikrotik with license level 4

and comment what happen...

tks 4 the answers
 
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Re: virtualization

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:12 pm

i probe and not running systems :S

mi license is level 4

put 3 archives and configure VM, but the winbox send error: failed to setup vm


my config is :

add comment="" console-telnet-port=64002 cpu-count=1 disabled=no \
disk-images=hda:centos.img initrd=centos.initrd.rgz kernel=\
vmlinuz-2.6.18-53.el5xen kernel-cmdline="root=/dev/hda1" memory=256MiB \
name=centos weight=256
/xen global-settings
set memory-for-main=unlimited
/xen interface
add comment="" disabled=no dynamic-bridge=Red dynamic-mac-address=\
02:42:37:51:12:40 type=dynamic virtual-machine=centos vm-mac-address=\
02:7C:00:A2:61:2F
 
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Campano
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Re: virtualization

Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:01 am

and i resolve my problem....

the solution is too easy and short

in my config, i not ser the max memory and this is the problem

i put 256 Mib and reboot, the system start.... and now i will configure the internal interfaces....
 
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Re: virtualization

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:52 pm

janisk: you can run dynamic network interface on centos??

in my case clarkconnect put the dynamic interface in state RUNNING, but centos show error in eth0, "card not connected"

please help me and tell your experience with centos image
 
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Re: virtualization

Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:02 am

did anybody try to make supout with Xen package installed? it slows down all system and many actions (including supout generation) just timed out until reboot via Reset button (/system reboot also times out =)...
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Re: virtualization

Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:59 pm

on what hardware you installed the xen package and what you see on the display (when rebooting) when you attach it to the hardware?
PCEngines - miniATX with AMD Geode 500MHz CPU - 256 MB RAM. I know this isn't powerful enough and it hasn't VT but it is 386based ;o)
You see ROS coming up something like "booting xen hypervisor" - than black screen and reboot.
I did exactly the same thing :-P Fortunatley I keep a backup when doing such things :-)
 
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Re: virtualization

Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:52 am

well, on slow machine with low ram you will not get any benefit in using virtualisation. And i doubt that it will work on actual 386 CPU. You will have to have quite decent CPU to run it in the first place.
 
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Re: virtualization

Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:22 pm

understandably, but one would expect the machine should still at least boot.
I was trying to see what options would be available should I install ROS on a server-grade machine.

Either way, looks great.

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