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Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:26 am
by spectrasurf
Just started installing 3.25...
Can we PLEASE leave the menu order alone?

I, as are others I'm sure, am very familiar with where things are in the menu... i.e. the first thing under IP is (was) Addresses, now it's Arp?
System had Reboot at the end, now it's kinda in the middle
Tools had Ping at the top, very handy, now it's BTest Server or some garbage?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put it back, and leave it!

Thanks!

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:15 am
by omega-00
There was a reason for re-arranging the menus.

Previous versions of winbox weren't properly usable on netbook laptops as the menu's were too long and would flow offscreen making most of the tools menu unusable. The new version fixes these problems and makes winbox suitable for the smallest of screens.

Its not that hard to find what you want, each submenu is alphabetically ordered now.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:14 am
by spectrasurf
Ok, so for the few people who use tiny laptops with tiny screens - great.
For those of us that work on hundreds (or thousands) of routers on a regular basis, from large 24" monitors - it's a real PITA.

I'm downgrading software on the ones we had upgraded. When you get used to a certain order things are in, it's not a good idea to just go and change it without reason.

What would you say if your Start button was suddenly forced (i.e. not selectable) to the top-right of your screen? Surely you'd be rather unhappy.
Or maybe instead of Shutdown, Run, Help, etc. Microsoft just decided... let's put everything in alphabetical order, instead of the things you use the most near the top/bottom.

All I'm saying is, please put things back the way they were. When you work on a lot of these, and get very fast at doing things, it's annoying as hell to have them all moved around.
Or better yet, give us the option in Winbox (i.e. not PER-ROUTER) to select "New button layout" or old.

</rant>

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:27 am
by omega-00
Ok, so for the few people who use tiny laptops with tiny screens - great.
For those of us that work on hundreds (or thousands) of routers on a regular basis, from large 24" monitors - it's a real PITA.
I work on both and was one of the people who requested the feature.
You're also wrong in assuming that I'm not one of those who works on routers on 'big' screens as well. But its useless if I can use the system on one and not on another, many techs will be switching to netbooks over the next year seeing as they're portable and cost-effective.

Either way we shouldn't be debating who uses what and what does/doesn't get supported.. everything reasonable should be supported, which is what mikrotik have done.
I'm downgrading software on the ones we had upgraded. When you get used to a certain order things are in, it's not a good idea to just go and change it without reason.
You're downgrading simply because of a couple of purely cosmetic changes? Also, as I've already mentioned there was good reason.
What would you say if your Start button was suddenly forced (i.e. not selectable) to the top-right of your screen? Surely you'd be rather unhappy.
Or maybe instead of Shutdown, Run, Help, etc. Microsoft just decided... let's put everything in alphabetical order, instead of the things you use the most near the top/bottom.
You mean like windows vista where start is now a circle and there's no run command and everything else has been rearranged? :-)
All I'm saying is, please put things back the way they were. When you work on a lot of these, and get very fast at doing things, it's annoying as hell to have them all moved around. Or better yet, give us the option in Winbox (i.e. not PER-ROUTER) to select "New button layout" or old.
Cool your heals and just give it a a try, it's not like it's a struggle to find any of the options.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:42 am
by Chupaka
huh... like any sensible person, if I see menu item "System -> Ports", I'll search it in CLI under /system port, but... oops =)

how many surprises we'll face in new WinBox? =)

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:49 am
by mrz
huh... like any sensible person, if I see menu item "System -> Ports", I'll search it in CLI under /system port, but... oops =)
I don't see it as a big problem.
In CLI wireless, bridge and mesh were accessible under 'interface' but in winbox they were not for a very long time and nobody complained about it. So why it should be different with System->Ports?

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:43 pm
by spectrasurf
My point is not that you can't find it - obviously yes, you can take a few extra seconds to go, "Hmm... now where in the alphabet would Addresses be in relation to Arp, Pool, DHCP Server, and everything else that I use on a very, very regular basis, which are now in a new order. Oh, ok, right there is the little bugger. Now let me switch windows back to one of our other 1200 MT routers... ahh heck, this one hasn't been upgraded yet, whoops - now I clicked on something entirely different by mistake because it's in the same spot as the other router, but it's a completely different function."

So yeah, it's aggrivating to say the least. Maybe they should make the change in Winbox, not the router - so if you choose to use a newer version of Winbox you get the crappic button layout that you think is needed for a Netbook; or if you continue to use the older version, you get the good buttons. We have 4.0beta running in many places too, and, it still has the original button layout.

Plus, I don't see how your command about Vista makes any sense. I said what if it was forced to be in the upper right corner of your screen. I didn't say, "What if they changed it from a swuare button to a round orb" - guess what, it may be round, but it's still in the same place. And we all know MikroTik is good at dropping and bringing back buttons in different versions - kinda like your command about the "run" command.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:10 pm
by jp
MT; thanks for those GUI changes.

I really appreciate things being adjusted to accommodate netbooks. Three of our four last laptop purchases at our company were netbooks. I use one because it's light, cheap, and has better battery life than cheap big laptops. I'm sure pretty much every company is either taking a serious look at them or already buying them for inexpensive field computers. I have 2 20 inch screens at my desk and I appreciate a more compact winbox there too, since I'm often looking at 2-3 winboxes at a time, several xterms, and a web browser simultaneously.

I also like things being alphabetized in the menus. It actually makes sense as opposed to how it had been done. It also better corresponds with the CLI. ARP should actually go after address, but that's minor.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:23 pm
by Chupaka
please bring back my favourite 'Tool -> Ping' in one line =(

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:42 am
by omega-00
ARP should actually go after address, but that's minor.
Haha I missed that one.. and I agree with everything in your post.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:16 pm
by w0lt
As long as we are talking about menus and such, how about putting a single button in winbox just for scripts so I don't have to constantly go menu-to sub-menu to find it. Or being able to create buttons for macros? Any ideas?

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:20 pm
by Ozelo
GOOD IDEA! Can we have customizable menus for each user?!?!?!? That would be awesome!

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:34 pm
by QpoX
Menu setup pr. user account...
So that other users can be limited or arrange of what they can see using winbox.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:15 pm
by Chupaka
ARP should actually go after address, but that's minor.
it's posix filename sorting )))

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:53 pm
by w0lt
When can we expect the changes made in v3.25 to be incorporated into v4.0.xx ?

-tp

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:18 am
by jp
While you're sprucing up the interface, I'd suggest making the wireless interface window a little shorter in advanced mode for better netbook/small window compatibility. Thanks!

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:31 am
by dssmiktik
It would be nice to have an XML file to customize menu layout. And more security to restrict more major features of RouterOS (hotspot, dhcp, dns, etc...)? Maybe too complicated ? Just some ideas.



Doug Shove

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:53 pm
by w0lt
What would also be really great is the remove the default height from the individual windows to allow them to be more compacted. This again, would allow Winbox to be more usable on smaller laptop screens.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:49 pm
by spectrasurf
And another request...
Please put the protocol numbers back in the protocol drop-down list (i.e. in firewall)

Use to say things like "17 udp" now it just says "udp"
Sometimes it's easier to look for the number, instead of the name. It was there, why did it go away?

Furthermore, it's much easier when the log is showing something being dropped as "protocol 72" and you can go to the firewall, go to the drop down, look for 72, and fix it. As it is now, if you don't readily know what protocol 72 is, you have to consult Google first.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:46 am
by conjurer
I agree, that we need a customizable menu apearance. For example, we use miktotiks wor wireless bridges, and multipoints. So i dont need radius, metarouter. And why the manual is in main menu? Can we put it on top bar near undo and redu buttons? Manual does nothuing with you device, it opens a website. Also there could be three level menus, and better classified, i.e. system > hardware > resources, system > hardware > health, system > hardware > ports, or something.
I would be best, if we can configure menu apearence (xml or some menumanager) and manual and make supout.rif buttons would be moved near undo/redo as icons IMHO.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:50 am
by normis
previously the winbox menus were ordered nearly randomly, and there were complaints and suggestions to alphabetize it. Now it's no good either :) It's not easy to make them arrangable. Maybe in future.
please bring back my favourite 'Tool -> Ping' in one line =(
Old habits die hard, eh?

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:09 am
by Chupaka
Old habits die hard, eh?
yeah, and suffering torments =)

p.s. welcome to the work ))

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:29 pm
by spectrasurf
Yeah, I could see making it customizable would be difficult. And, really, since we work on multiple machines, it'd never get used anyway--unless we wanted to always sync our config file.

It'd be nice if you'd put it back in the old order. It's been in that order since we started using MikroTik many, many, many years ago. It's well-known and we're able to navigate through it very quickly.

Sure, maybe alphabetical order makes some sense, but as the old addage goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Again, just my two cents. Clearly, you'll do what you feel is necessary and we as users will either have to put up with it, or find something else like Ubiquiti to use that has an SDK and allows us to set things up how we want them.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:42 pm
by skillful
The only constant in life is change. When change comes, do not resist it.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:10 am
by masked
get to remember the alphabet, form new connections in your brain between winbox and a-z (tm).

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:39 am
by pedja
Menu system, as vital part of user interface should conform usability rules.
Alphabetizing option usually does not provide usability but makes it worse.

But, Winbox design breaks usability in whole, so alphabetized menus do not make it much worse.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:28 am
by taylorc
Well. since we are on the topic already, could we please loose the shutdown command???

At the very least, make it a double-confirm - It's too easy to mash it instead of reboot and screw yourself.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:48 pm
by jasejames
GUI. Tsk.

Real men use CLI. Never even tried to use Winbox other than when demoing a couple of bits to a manager.

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:24 am
by CarulloS
You probably still ride a horse to work too...

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:38 am
by jasejames
If driving a car gave me RSI in the way a stupid mouse does, or took three times as long to complete a repetitive task, of course I'd ride a horse!

Re: Can we PLEASE leave the menu orders ALONE?

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:39 pm
by Chupaka
yeah, C++ sucks, write ASM code!