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neeraj_k
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nlos wifi in campus

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 am

We have to do nlos wifi in university campus with radius of 1 Km. Is it possible with Mtik on 2.4 ghz. The campus is full of trees lots of greenery. Plz resond if anyone has experience in this.
thnx
 
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rickard
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:00 pm

Yes it will work if you use the G band only, and if you whant, you can use WDS with more AP cells to get more coverage.
 
neeraj_k
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:30 pm

Thnx and gr8 to hear tht. Wht minimum range can i expect from an AP in G mode .
thnx
 
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rickard
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:42 pm

Hi

Im running 2.4 Ghz G links for 4 Km . But im using Nstream.
 
mperdue
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:33 pm

why would you use G for nlos?
 
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tneumann
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:55 pm

why would you use G for nlos?
Because OFDM has better NLOS behaviour than DSSS.

--Tom
 
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djape
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:14 am

Jesus Christ, what a hell are you guys talking about???

1 km NOS and trees? G mode?

It will work but you will expirience disconnections all the time.
You should be happy if you see 2mbit/s in 802.11b with standard equipment.
I can guarantee that!
I have made more than 150 installations...
I guess you're trying to do point to point link?
If you plan to use atheros forget for boosters! Atheros is great card but very sensitive to noise!
Be aware that boosters are boosting not only strenght, but noise also.
You should try 200mW prism 2.5 for 802.11b and 1watt boosters on both sides for 802.11g, 24dbi antennas and 3 or 4 beers :)
You can expect 2-4mbit/s with 802.11b and with boosted 802.11g between 15 and 20mbit/s.

No offense, just trying to help....

Prove that I'm wrong ;) do it better! Good Luck!
I drink like a pirate and smoke like a hippie...
 
neeraj_k
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:53 am

guys i'm talking about giving nlos to students in their rooms either on laptops or desktop using wifi card in their computer.
 
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sten
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Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:23 pm

Go with G and when configuring the system test it thoroughly.
My advice is that your configuration leaves little to chance.
 
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djape
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:04 pm

You're talking about connecting with indoor antennas? Laptop cards? Without using outdoor antennas?
Forget for whole thing...
I drink like a pirate and smoke like a hippie...
 
matt
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Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:25 pm

Unfortunatly. I have to agree with djape, you will be pushing it for your clients to connect to your AP with B, let alone in G mode.

If you add an amp to your AP, it will turn it into an "alligator" big mouth with lots of output, but very small eyes and unable to receive much as all our clients will not be fitted with amps, so they will be able to receive your kick arse signal, but not be able to get the signal back to the AP due to the low power they will be running in their client cards.

Sounds like you need to run an AP on 5GHz from your pipe and have 3,4 or more 5GHz links around the campus repeating on 2.4GHz?

my 2 cents worth
 
miyake
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:07 am

Jesus Christ, what a hell are you guys talking about???

1 km NOS and trees? G mode?

It will work but you will expirience disconnections all the time.
You should be happy if you see 2mbit/s in 802.11b with standard equipment.
I can guarantee that!
I have made more than 150 installations...
I guess you're trying to do point to point link?
If you plan to use atheros forget for boosters! Atheros is great card but very sensitive to noise!
Be aware that boosters are boosting not only strenght, but noise also.
You should try 200mW prism 2.5 for 802.11b and 1watt boosters on both sides for 802.11g, 24dbi antennas and 3 or 4 beers :)
You can expect 2-4mbit/s with 802.11b and with boosted 802.11g between 15 and 20mbit/s.

No offense, just trying to help....

Prove that I'm wrong ;) do it better! Good Luck!
I have 3km NLOS connection in 802.11g with 2 24dBi offset antennas. I have real WOOD on the line. I use Atheros 5213 modules from http://www.cyberbajt.pl. I don't use any boosters :) I have -72dBm signal on both size. It links up to 48MBps, but I manually put it to max 24Mbps. It is ROCK STABLE.!!

4 ;;; xxxxx
xxxxxx 000E9Bxxxxxx 00:0E:9B:xx:xx:xx no -72dBm... 24Mbps 6d12h17m18s

I have real stable 1100 - 1200 KB/s ftp transfer :)

Firstly, it was 802.11b link, one day I just tried to set up it in G. :) It is my only one 802.11g link... but a great link :)

PS. I have made over 1000 installations and I was sure that link CAN't WORK, but it does :)

PS2. I would never use any kind of boosters on my links.

PS3. IMHO there is NO CHANCE for neeraj_k's configuration with laptops and indoor antennas

PS4. Sorry for my English... it is 1:20 am and i'm tired :)
Best regards,
Miyake
 
wildbill442
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:36 am

Anything can be done with the right sized budget.

You can do it, you may just need a few more ap's to get the coverage you desire.
 
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djape
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:35 pm

Anything can be done with the right sized budget.

You can do it, you may just need a few more ap's to get the coverage you desire.
Completely agree...
But students and budget doesn't go together :)
I drink like a pirate and smoke like a hippie...
 
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sten
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:59 pm

Everyone says it can't be done, no one said about people density. There could be only 4 people living in a single room that he wants to cover :o
 
hitek146
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:45 pm

He said 1km radius, through trees and walls, to non-stationary clients with low powered radio cards driving low-gain omni-directional antennas..... Not gonna happen. Although our system uses dedicated client hardware at each customer location, our service laptops are configured to connect to our towers, so we do have a good amount of experience trying to connect to a central tower with laptops.... Your milage may vary greatly, as I have gotten a good link about a mile away from one of our towers while walking in circles holding my laptop(antenna inside LCD display), no problem. This was with perfect line of site(with the exception of my body getting in the way while turning circles) to the tower, but try the same thing 500 feet away from the tower inside of a building, and it will never work.... The low power of the client just doesn't have enough signal left to make it back to the tower after it has to penetrate the wall and/or trees....

It would be possible to partially do what you are trying, with some small degree of success. The clients can work a half a mile(<1km) away(or so) from the central tower while inside of a building or behind trees, but(as stated above) you would have dropout issues when people or trees moved around, and the client device would need to be carefully oriented in the proper indoor location and position to even have a chance of receiving the signal.....

Hitek
 
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sten
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Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:14 pm

It would be possible to partially do what you are trying, with some small degree of success. The clients can work a half a mile(<1km) away(or so) from the central tower while inside of a building or behind trees, but(as stated above) you would have dropout issues when people or trees moved around, and the client device would need to be carefully oriented in the proper indoor location and position to even have a chance of receiving the signal.....
You say this as if i am trying to accomplish this. :D
 
wildbill442
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Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:07 am

Again you'd most likely need multiple access points to cover a 1km radius NLOS. It can be done, its just a question of how many AP's you can afford to put up. This isn't really an exact science you have to put up a few test the signal and plan on installing more APs to cover the dark areas.

So the answer to the original poster, YES this can be done, NLOS, you most likely will need multiple AP's. I'd also test with a 65mW client card as that seems to be the standard for most wifi PC's.
 
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sten
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Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:28 pm

I was just arguing about semantics (AKA Trolling) :twisted:

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