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Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualization.

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:07 pm
by Sanity
Sorry, ;) KVM does not cut it.

Most larger enterprises either use VmWare or smaller ones as well as larger ones are moving to Hyper-V for the reason that they get all from one hand.

THere is a seroius need for router / firewall appliances, not only because people use clusters of virtulaization machines that must be protected. A special edition or special licensing could possibly pay for this - I know I would gladly pay 100 USD more for a Hyper-V package that integrates fully native.

I hav one of those cases here. I run a Mikrotik based fabric - a couple of Mikrotik hardware all around. Now I am adding an external system and the price of adding Mikrotik hardware there would not be even funny (payment is about 400 USD per rack unit height - no, this is not "cheap run the mill hosting" and it is not even the highest tier - in the highest offer there I would pay 1500 USD per rack unit). As I run a lot of Hyper-V (plus later a bare metal machine) I would really like just have a small RouterOS instance, especially as it does realtively little traffic (tying this into our fabric for control, some remote desktops, some internal dashboards, sql transfer traffic and maintenance - but not thousands of users, we talk of like 5 users maximum).

The abandonment of Xen has left RouterOS with KVM only, and that is not going to establish it as virtual router... which is market. SImply because no proepr company will decide their virtualization platform based on the requirements of a mere firewall, and will be reluctant to add another platform (the cost would be too high - in our case I would need a KVM specialist 24/6 and that will cost).

Readding support would open a significant market. Given that Mikrotik seems to move up from small devices only (i like the 36 core one - may get one myself for the cluster we build in the office) support for a virtualized environment may be another plus point.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:32 pm
by jp
RouterOS works fine as a regular x86 OS virtualized; I use it in xen. My understanding of their support for virtualization was to provide a special version that would work for paravirtualization, where the underlying CPU didn't need to specifically support actual virtualization.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:52 pm
by Sanity
RouterOS works fine as a regular x86 OS virtualized; I use it in xen. My understanding of their support for virtualization was to provide a special version that would work for paravirtualization, where the underlying CPU didn't need to specifically support actual virtualization.
Well, it does not work curently well with Hyper-V and with VmWare.

Drivers for BOTH are part of the current regular kernel, so "drivers" is an excuse, not a real reason. The current kernel got the last Hyper-V driver into the kernel, so - it is all complete now (all otehr drivers+ vmware were in for some time).

I would be perfectly fine with the X86 version ONLY - or even for an additional cost - supporting both. Heck, you could easily double the cost and make me happy ;) I mostly want one stack end to end, including places where installing a physical router is not properly possible. Because for example you pay 300 USD per hour remote hands and 850USD+ per server hosting and an installation per piece of 2500 USD.... ;) (if anyone asks, I just go through a nice offer here.... Aurora Center for example is 1750 USD insallation, 600 USD per unit colocation and 500 USD per hour remote hands and sadly without alternative if someone needs it ;)

KVM, sadly- is not "enterprise" In the ears of most people. The market is a little Hyper-V and a lot VmWare. Even XEN is not relevant so much outside the low cost / hosting side, it seems.

Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualization.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 pm
by biomesh
Not sure what version of vmware you are using but ros works great on vmware workstation 8. I am guessing the latest versions of esxi work too.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:45 pm
by janisk
if you use XEN full virtualization RotuerOS works there as a guest OS, same goes for VMware virtual guests.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:15 pm
by Sanity
if you use XEN full virtualization RotuerOS works there as a guest OS, same goes for VMware virtual guests.
Ok, so you think I should replace my whole platform with another one because one of the large virtualization platforms suck in your eyes, or what?

Seriously, I yet have to see XEN used in an enterprise - most are as I said VmWare with some Hyper-V - the later one growing significantly.

And as I personally use Hyper-V, references to VmWare and Xen are useless like studying mathematics to paint pictures of landscapes.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:33 pm
by jp
if you use XEN full virtualization RotuerOS works there as a guest OS, same goes for VMware virtual guests.
Ok, so you think I should replace my whole platform with another one because one of the large virtualization platforms suck in your eyes, or what?

Seriously, I yet have to see XEN used in an enterprise - most are as I said VmWare with some Hyper-V - the later one growing significantly.

And as I personally use Hyper-V, references to VmWare and Xen are useless like studying mathematics to paint pictures of landscapes.
That makes you sound so super important. I bet you even have certifications and wear a tie? You can't manage to do something you want with Microsoft software; there is nothing new under the sun.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:55 pm
by ayufan
@Sanity:

The only problem with Microsoft is: why in the end they only implemented some crappy legacy 100Mbps network adapter? why not some e1000 like any virtualization platform do have? Because they want to addict to you to use only theirs software.

Hyper-V is good but not the best in performance/scalability/administration/cost. For simple setups like one or two machines it may work. But for larger - no thank you. I will not even consider use of Hyper-V.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:45 pm
by Sanity
if you use XEN full virtualization RotuerOS works there as a guest OS, same goes for VMware virtual guests.
Ok, so you think I should replace my whole platform with another one because one of the large virtualization platforms suck in your eyes, or what?

Seriously, I yet have to see XEN used in an enterprise - most are as I said VmWare with some Hyper-V - the later one growing significantly.

And as I personally use Hyper-V, references to VmWare and Xen are useless like studying mathematics to paint pictures of landscapes.
That makes you sound so super important. I bet you even have certifications and wear a tie? You can't manage to do something you want with Microsoft software; there is nothing new under the sun.
Actually no, I stopped wearing a tie 20 years ago or so. These days I am in enough a position to not care about what tie-bearers or other people in general say. There is something really nice happening the moment you do not rely on other people to earn your living anymore - you simple stop caring about the anyway irrelevant 95% of the world.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:47 pm
by Chupaka
Sanity, what exactly are you talking about?.. you just want to use RouterOS as virtual guests? what's problem? I can't speak about Hyper-V, but my ESXis have a few virtual routers inside it, one of the routers passing upto 500 Mbps of traffic between VLANs

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:29 am
by bigguns
if you use XEN full virtualization RotuerOS works there as a guest OS, same goes for VMware virtual guests.
Hi,
Could you tell me where i can get images for either of these please? Is there anywhere to install VMtools on the VM?

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:27 am
by ayufan
Could you tell me where i can get images for either of these please? Is there anywhere to install VMtools on the VM?
Use ISO to install on guest system. It is just easy as install on PC.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:07 pm
by Chupaka
or NetInstall :)

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:19 pm
by taduikis
Just mount .iso as a second drive and ensure correct boot sequence in guest config.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:10 pm
by janisk
Hi,
Could you tell me where i can get images for either of these please? Is there anywhere to install VMtools on the VM?
it is not possible to install additional tools on RouterOS if it is used as a guest in some VMS (virtualization management system).

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:08 pm
by bigguns
Are there any plans to be able to install VMtools custom package on ROS? Because this would really lead to a huge uptake on the market.

Re: Feature Request: Please support enterprise virtualizatio

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:14 pm
by janisk
there are no plans to include these or any other tools into RouterOS as they do not contribute anything to the processing speed of the guest.

we understand you lack some monitoring features, but that can be overcome using SNMP to monitor guest directly.