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doush
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Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:47 pm

Hello;
What is the maximum number of PPPoE connections we can terminate on a CCR (36core) ?

Is there any tests done ?

Does the PPPoE Server uses multicore properly ?

Mikrotik Team ?
 
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greek
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:26 pm

I am interesting too.

And how many sstp connections (2mbps per sstp-connection) can be terminated on CCR1036 ?
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:13 am

MikroTik ?
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:58 pm

Ok just to get an answer quickly from Mikrotik Team :

We know that PPPoE server uses CPU for ;

1) Simple Queues (Dynamic)
2) Firewall Mangle
3) PPPoE Service

could you please state which of them currently utilizing the multi-core CCR CPUs efficiently ?

And please mention at least an estimate on how many PPPoE Customers we can connect on a CCR ?
 
AlArenal
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:00 pm

Ok just to get an answer quickly from Mikrotik Team
Wouldn't it make more sense to open a ticket!?
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:05 pm

I think the problem here is not the communication medium with Mikrotik but most probably they dont even have an idea about the answer of the question !
 
AlArenal
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:22 pm

My answer to your question would be: It depends :-)

It's a complex system, that gets even more complicated with every additional configuration parameter. No installation is the same and every little thing has some impact. So realistically I don't think there is a definitive answer besides posting some hard limits from the kernel modules. But they won't give you the real world figures you'd like to have.

The best you can get is some figures out of benchmarks. But benchmarks are always synthetic.
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:57 pm

I would use even a synthetic benchmark and work from there.

At least, it would be good to know the maximum limits with the simplest configuration.

http://www.ericsson.com/ourportfolio/products/se100

If you look at the link for the lowest end Ericsson Router, it directly gives you the max therotical numbers achivable with suggested configuration even on the first page of their website including max num of VPN connections, PPPoE etc..

I dont care about CPU count promoted on the MT website for CCR.. I want to know what it can achieve !
 
AlArenal
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:46 pm

I have to admit, a feature matrix would indeed be cool. Something like this: http://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/ ... 281-en.pdf
 
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normis
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Yes, it depends. There is no such thing as "the simplest configuration" in RouterOS. There are just too many variables.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
AlArenal
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:04 pm

But doush has apoint here, normis. You have a product lineup with different hardware. We understand from the hardware specs that an RB1100 has less performance than a CCR1016. And a CCR1016 has less peak performance than a CCR1036.

But on what basis are customers supposed to decide which hardware to choose? And what about those who are eying a system change to MT and just can't compare specs between whatever they have now and what you are offering?

So.. I totally understand and agree from experience, that it is indeed difficult, but others found ways to put up numbers and so should you. I mean, If our clients call and want a new or better Watchguard firewall appliance I can compare what they have to current models by looking at the feature matrix. They give me all kinds of figures like max. concurrent SSL VPN users, max. concurrent connections, throughput, etc.
I don't know if they measured in their lab, if there's hardcoded limits, or whatever. But I can compare.
Same goes for our layer 3 switches. The data sheets tell me how big their routing tables are, how many peers and prefixes I can configure, how many ACLs I can create, etc.

Of course it's like with our cars. They may drive up to 200 kilometres per hour and have 150 horsepower but we all know under heavy load we won't reach that 200 and in a traffic jam 150 horsepowers don't mean a thing.

But leaving the guesswork completely (!) up to the customer doesn't seem to be a very sustainable strategy given the fact that with the Tilera CPU you're approaching markets that have been out of reach until now.
Last edited by AlArenal on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:19 pm

Well here is some facts

1) there are "Performance test results" for each product at http://routerboard.com/
2) low end RB7xx or RB9xx are very inexpensive.

So buy one of those, test its maximal performance and then use proportion that you can get from comparing tables of both products.
From those tables you can also see what is configuration impact on performance - it severity also is important.


i know it sounds like witchcraft :) but it works, and works best with similar products, like having CCR1016 you can calculate what CCR1036 will be capable to do.
but this approach have one big plus - configuration is exactly the same as you will have on new board, so that is constant.
With great knowledge comes great responsibility, because of ability to recognize id... incompetent people much faster.
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Normis;
Instead of omitting the question, please try to understand that we are trying to use your product in more advanced environments and we dont have a clue on the capabilities of this "high end" router !

simplest configuration is this:

1xPPPoE server on an ethernet interface

No Firewall, No queues, nothing. Than test the maximum number of PPPoE clients on the CCR to see the breaking point.
Try to push traffic from the pppoe clients to see how much it handles without packet loss.

Advanced Config:

1x PPPoE Server on an ethernet Interface
1xPPP Profile with TCP MSS on + Dynamic Queues (from RADIUS)

And test how it handles under the same scenario.


I am trying to make an Aggregation Point and have no clue if CCR can handle 2000+ PPPoE clients with OSPF + MPLS + Dynamic Queues.
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:43 pm

Well here is some facts

1) there are "Performance test results" for each product at http://routerboard.com/
2) low end RB7xx or RB9xx are very inexpensive.

So buy one of those, test its maximal performance and then use proportion that you can get from comparing tables of both products.
From those tables you can also see what is configuration impact on performance - it severity also is important.


i know it sounds like witchcraft :) but it works, and works best with similar products, like having CCR1016 you can calculate what CCR1036 will be capable to do.
but this approach have one big plus - configuration is exactly the same as you will have on new board, so that is constant.
RB 7xx and 9xx are all single core products. CCR is a 32x core device which needs special attention by programmers to utilize all the cores. There is nothing like we can do comparison.

And hell, I dont even know how to create 1000s of PPPoE clients to test and I am definetly NOT trying this on my actual system.
This is MTs job to come up with a figure. This is not my job.
 
doush
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Re: Maximum number of PPPoE Connections for CCR

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:15 pm

Ticket#2013082166000692

Mikrotik ?

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