Community discussions

 
kgninfos
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as antenna

Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:45 pm

Hi
it's 12:!2 am now and i was thinking can we user a 2-3km length single copper wire 24awg (not pair) to directly connect twi 7115hn antenna port and both the device will work at a distance of 2 km??

can admins/wifi engg confirm this??

Thanks
 
Petzl
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:28 am

Hi
it's 12:!2 am now and i was thinking can we user a 2-3km length single copper wire 24awg (not pair) to directly connect twi 7115hn antenna port and both the device will work at a distance of 2 km??

can admins/wifi engg confirm this??

Thanks
will not work on 2.4 ghz ....
 
kgninfos
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:42 am

Admins please tell the solution

Thanks
 
onnoossendrijver
Member
Member
Posts: 418
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:10 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:39 am

Admins please tell the solution

Thanks
Solution to what?
I you want to cross 3 kilometers, you can allways dig a fiber :)
Linux/network engineer: ITIL, LPI1, CCNA R+S, CCNP R+S, JNCIA, JNCIS-SEC
 
Ehman
Member
Member
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:49 pm

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:45 pm

Hi
it's 12:!2 am now and i was thinking can we user a 2-3km length single copper wire 24awg (not pair) to directly connect twi 7115hn antenna port and both the device will work at a distance of 2 km??

can admins/wifi engg confirm this??

Thanks
weirdest question I've ever seen in my life, but oddly interesting, I personally don't know if it will work or not, I've never tried something like that, because I just mount 2 directional antennas and it work but yeaaa... 2-3km cable, use fibre, fibre is cheap! and the converter is cheap = gigabit link... but you might need something to connect the fibre cables to the fibre convertor, or just use 2 wireless antennas :D

Wireless underground cables :lol:
 
User avatar
THG
Member
Member
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:05 am

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:26 pm

If you select an antenna built for the wrong frequency you will have very poor results.

Two major factors associated with radio antenna design are the antenna resonant point or centre operating frequency and the antenna bandwidth or the frequency range over which the antenna design can operate. These two factors are naturally very important features of any antenna design and as such they are mentioned in specifications for particular RF antennas.

Whether the RF antenna is used for broadcasting, WLAN, cellular telecommunications, PMR or any other application, the performance of the RF antenna is paramount, and the antenna resonant frequency and the antenna bandwidth are of great importance.

An RF antenna is a form of tuned circuit consisting of inductance and capacitance, and as a result it has a resonant frequency. This is the frequency where the capacitive and inductive reactances cancel each other out. At this point the RF antenna appears purely resistive, the resistance being a combination of the loss resistance and the radiation resistance.

The capacitance and inductance of an RF antenna are determined by its physical properties and the environment where it is located. The major feature of the RF antenna design is its dimensions. It is found that the larger the antenna or more strictly the antenna elements, the lower the resonant frequency. For example antennas for WLAN have relatively small elements, while those for LF longwave broadcasting have larger elements indicating a lower frequency.

Most RF antenna designs are operated around the resonant point. This means that there is only a limited bandwidth over which an RF antenna design can operate efficiently. Outside this the levels of reactance rise to levels that may be too high for satisfactory operation. Other characteristics of the antenna may also be impaired away from the centre operating frequency.

The antenna bandwidth is particularly important where radio transmitters are concerned as damage may occur to the transmitter if the antenna is operated outside its operating range and the radio transmitter is not adequately protected. In addition to this the signal radiated by the RF antenna may be less for a number of reasons.

For receiving purposes the performance of the antenna is less critical in some respects. It can be operated outside its normal bandwidth without any fear of damage to the set. Even a random length of wire will pick up signals, and it may be possible to receive several distant stations. However for the best reception it is necessary to ensure that the performance of the RF antenna design is optimum.
 
User avatar
janisk
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 6283
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:46 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:30 pm

at these distances it will not work. and if you can lay quality cable for a wireless signal, why cannot you lay any other cable, that would allow greater speeds.
 
kgninfos
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:44 pm

at these distances it will not work. and if you can lay quality cable for a wireless signal, why cannot you lay any other cable, that would allow greater speeds.
i am not going to lay cables rather i was thinking to use the cable of a PSTN provider

local authority don't give permission to lay own cables(too expensive)

also if you look at my other post i am not able to connect to Metal2Shpn+omni ant with TP-Link 5210G form 900mtr distance
i don't know why but it's just not working

the signal-to-noise is 32dbi still in mikrotik log i am getting "Extensive data loss"
 
Ehman
Member
Member
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:49 pm

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:59 pm

at these distances it will not work. and if you can lay quality cable for a wireless signal, why cannot you lay any other cable, that would allow greater speeds.
i am not going to lay cables rather i was thinking to use the cable of a PSTN provider

local authority don't give permission to lay own cables(too expensive)

also if you look at my other post i am not able to connect to Metal2Shpn+omni ant with TP-Link 5210G form 900mtr distance
i don't know why but it's just not working

the signal-to-noise is 32dbi still in mikrotik log i am getting "Extensive data loss"
Get a point to point MPLS satellite link then... if you cant implement a 2-3 km wireless link :shock:

EDIT: "i am not able to connect to Metal2Shpn+omni ant with TP-Link 5210G form 900mtr distance"
check interference, check for broken cables, broken antennas, change channel to highest or to lowest, try 5.8Ghz or 2.4Ghz
 
CelticComms
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 5:48 am

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:12 pm

i am not going to lay cables rather i was thinking to use the cable of a PSTN provider
You can use VDSL technology on such cables if the provider allows it but even then the distance you mention is a bit far. e.g. :

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-VDSL ... 002CLKFTG/
Interlynx | Networking and Information Security Consultants & Trainers | Email: routerlynx@gmail.com
BGP | EIGRP | OSPF | MPLS | Firewall | VPN | IPsec | Multicast | QOS | IPv4/6 | STP | VLAN | PON | AE | M2M | and more!

 
User avatar
IPANetEngineer
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:46 am
Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Contact:

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:31 am

EFM (Ethernet in the First Mile) over SHDSL is the technology I would deploy at that distance with an available telco copper route. EFM uses copper pairs to make a synchronous Ethernet pipe. We have put many of these on copper service provider networks as a form of metro Ethernet and they work very well and are stable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_in_the_first_mile
Global - MikroTik Support & Consulting - English | Francais | Español | Portuguese +1 855-645-7684
https://iparchitechs.com/services/mikro ... l-support/ mikrotiksupport@iparchitechs.com
 
CelticComms
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 5:48 am

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:15 pm

In case anybody is actually contemplating any xDSL technologies over 2-3 km be aware that getting 5-6 Mbps would be considered *good* over such a distance! These technologies can provide only a small fraction of the capacity that most radio standards would offer over the same distance.
Interlynx | Networking and Information Security Consultants & Trainers | Email: routerlynx@gmail.com
BGP | EIGRP | OSPF | MPLS | Firewall | VPN | IPsec | Multicast | QOS | IPv4/6 | STP | VLAN | PON | AE | M2M | and more!

 
User avatar
IPANetEngineer
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:46 am
Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Contact:

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:52 pm

Speeds depend on a number of factors including the gauge of the copper plant, bridge taps, aircore vs jelly, etc. The number of pairs and type of binder they are in also makes a difference.

Speeds over 20 Mbps are easily possible at 6000 - 9000 feet if using ADSL2+ annex for unidirectional traffic. One pair can be run in each direction to achieve synchronous speeds fairly easily and routing protocols can be used to take advantage of the two unidirectional pipes.

Speeds of 10 Mbps synchronous are possible with EFM at that distance on the right copper and pair bonding gives you the ability to link ag several pairs together at Layer 1 for pipes from 30 - 60 Mbps.

The published xDSL footage distances / speeds are frequently exceeded in real world telco operations.

In short...it all depends :-)
Global - MikroTik Support & Consulting - English | Francais | Español | Portuguese +1 855-645-7684
https://iparchitechs.com/services/mikro ... l-support/ mikrotiksupport@iparchitechs.com
 
CelticComms
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 5:48 am

Re: Admins please tell Can i use 2-3 km copper cable as ante

Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:35 am


In short...it all depends :-)
... and it can (and frequently does) all change when somebody commissions another xDSL circuit on an adjacent pair in one of the bundles - which is something to look forward to if you don't die of fright at the quote for those dry copper pairs in the first place given the weird sense of humor that some providers have when pricing them! ;)

I have even come across some providers which won't price such circuits for new installs anymore.

Also worth mentioning that if the direct path is 3000m the Telco's path may longer as their ordering system may only process orders routed via the closest common upstream CO / SLIC Hut etc. . Ordering multiple pairs to have the same routing can be entertaining!

All in all plenty of incentive for the OP to find out why the radio link isn't working! :)
Interlynx | Networking and Information Security Consultants & Trainers | Email: routerlynx@gmail.com
BGP | EIGRP | OSPF | MPLS | Firewall | VPN | IPsec | Multicast | QOS | IPv4/6 | STP | VLAN | PON | AE | M2M | and more!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 118 guests