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CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:41 pm
by pribasv
We've been testing the CAPsMAN module and we've found some features missing. One of them in my opinion it's that the channel could be set to auto-frequency. Other Ap management systems (unifi, bintec or cisco lapp) set the frequencies automatically to avoid interference between neighbour APs. Most of them use a separation of at least one empty channel between nearest radios, if possible.

I know that this is a beta release and lot has to be done.

Thanks for your product and hope that the CAPsMAN module will be another great feature (and long waited also).

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:49 am
by normis
We already made "auto" feature for regular wireless config, so don't worry, it will also be made for CAPsMAN soon

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:23 pm
by hvdhelm
Any idea when? It's not in 6.14 jet...
Maybe 6.15?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:52 pm
by payday
Any idea when? It's not in 6.14 jet...
Maybe 6.15?
It is already implemented but they forgot to write about it in the manual. :)
Here is info: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 12#p428242

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:27 pm
by payday
Manual is now updated:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:CA ... n_Profiles

"channel.frequency (integer [0..4294967295]; Default: ) Channel frequency value in MHz on which AP will operate. If left blank, CAPsMAN will automatically determine the best frequency that is least occupied."

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:41 am
by ojsa
Thanks, this is a lifesaver ;-)

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:01 am
by ojsa
Strange, it seems to select the same channel on all three AP when frequency set to auto.

AP2
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

AP3
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

AP4
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

On the CapsMan server
/caps-man channel
add band=2ghz-b/g comment="auto channel - 2.4ghz" name=channel-auto width=20

Running on RB433 and RB2011, disabled N due to issue with chromeplug, running ROS 5.17 with updated firmware.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:04 am
by payday
Maybe it works only in N mode?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:46 pm
by ojsa
Seems strange, but I could switch back to support N later today.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:16 am
by ojsa
Still the same, three different AP select the same channel, all managed by capsman with frequency set to auto.

They all have this "comment", frequency confirmed with network scanner..
;;; managed by CAPsMAN
;;; channel: 2412/20-Ce/gn(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:38 pm
by fbi
Greetings!

I have a question about the capsman auto frequency feature. Does the capsman have the ability to change the AP's channel frequency when the conditions are changing, without disabling/enabling it? Or the capsman selects the best channel ONLY when an AP starts?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:00 pm
by uldis
Greetings!

I have a question about the capsman auto frequency feature. Does the capsman have the ability to change the AP's channel frequency when the conditions are changing, without disabling/enabling it? Or the capsman selects the best channel ONLY when an AP starts?
Currently the frequency is selected when you enable the AP interface.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:47 am
by roadracer96
Auto select doesn't work. It did seem to sort of work in 6.19 Capsman. But not when the device first came up. Only if you disable/reenabled the interface after it rebooted. Then it would work. On 6.21 and 6.22, it seems about as useless as a box of rocks.

But when are you going to (re)support TRUE DFS modes with radar detect? Right now, If I reboot all 3 of my home APs at one time, They will pop up on 5180mhz with 80mhz channel width and just sit there. Forever.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:41 pm
by uldis
Auto select doesn't work. It did seem to sort of work in 6.19 Capsman. But not when the device first came up. Only if you disable/reenabled the interface after it rebooted. Then it would work. On 6.21 and 6.22, it seems about as useless as a box of rocks.

But when are you going to (re)support TRUE DFS modes with radar detect? Right now, If I reboot all 3 of my home APs at one time, They will pop up on 5180mhz with 80mhz channel width and just sit there. Forever.
Each time when a CAP interface is provisioned the frequency is selected - you can see the status of the CAP interface it will show selecting frequency.

If all your HomeAPs are near to each other and are added in the CAPsMAN then they will try to use different frequency.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:19 pm
by roadracer96
Auto select doesn't work. It did seem to sort of work in 6.19 Capsman. But not when the device first came up. Only if you disable/reenabled the interface after it rebooted. Then it would work. On 6.21 and 6.22, it seems about as useless as a box of rocks.

But when are you going to (re)support TRUE DFS modes with radar detect? Right now, If I reboot all 3 of my home APs at one time, They will pop up on 5180mhz with 80mhz channel width and just sit there. Forever.
Each time when a CAP interface is provisioned the frequency is selected - you can see the status of the CAP interface it will show selecting frequency.

If all your HomeAPs are near to each other and are added in the CAPsMAN then they will try to use different frequency.

They are all close enough that they can see each other and they all end up on 5180.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:24 pm
by ivugrinec
In RouterOS 6.22 CAPsMANv2 frequency auto-select does NOT work. Every provisioned CAP lands on the same frequency.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:15 am
by NathanA
In RouterOS 6.22 CAPsMANv2 frequency auto-select does NOT work. Every provisioned CAP lands on the same frequency.
I haven't tried v2 but it works for me on v1. Did you try it on v1, and did it work for you on v1, too?

One thing that I have noticed is that if I boot up all of my CAPs at the same time, then even with auto frequency, they all end up on the same channel. But if I stagger the order in which they boot up, then they all pick different frequencies. I suspect that what is going on is that when they all boot up at the same time, they are all scanning at the same time when none of them are broadcasting, so they all think that channel 1 is clear and so they all pick it. The CAP will not pick a new channel until the interface has been disabled and re-enabled, which makes sense: if they were continually listening for a better channel to switch to while operating, they would have to kick all associated clients off every time they did a sweep because one radio cannot tune into 2 channels at the same time. The only way to implement active, continual channel scanning would be to have a second radio that is always in listen-only mode.

One possible solution that MikroTik might look into is having each CAP add a random delay to turning on the radio every time it boots up. Actually, I might be able to do this with a startup script on each CAP, now that I think about it. I will have to do some experimentation.

-- Nathan

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:28 pm
by ivugrinec
In RouterOS 6.22 CAPsMANv2 frequency auto-select does NOT work. Every provisioned CAP lands on the same frequency.
I haven't tried v2 but it works for me on v1. Did you try it on v1, and did it work for you on v1, too?

One thing that I have noticed is that if I boot up all of my CAPs at the same time, then even with auto frequency, they all end up on the same channel. But if I stagger the order in which they boot up, then they all pick different frequencies. I suspect that what is going on is that when they all boot up at the same time, they are all scanning at the same time when none of them are broadcasting, so they all think that channel 1 is clear and so they all pick it. The CAP will not pick a new channel until the interface has been disabled and re-enabled, which makes sense: if they were continually listening for a better channel to switch to while operating, they would have to kick all associated clients off every time they did a sweep because one radio cannot tune into 2 channels at the same time. The only way to implement active, continual channel scanning would be to have a second radio that is always in listen-only mode.

One possible solution that MikroTik might look into is having each CAP add a random delay to turning on the radio every time it boots up. Actually, I might be able to do this with a startup script on each CAP, now that I think about it. I will have to do some experimentation.

-- Nathan
Nathan,

Uldis said:
Each time when a CAP interface is provisioned the frequency is selected - you can see the status of the CAP interface it will show selecting frequency.
On CAPsMAN v2 this does not work. Tested. It worked on CAPsMAN v1.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:09 pm
by roadracer96
In RouterOS 6.22 CAPsMANv2 frequency auto-select does NOT work. Every provisioned CAP lands on the same frequency.
I haven't tried v2 but it works for me on v1. Did you try it on v1, and did it work for you on v1, too?

One thing that I have noticed is that if I boot up all of my CAPs at the same time, then even with auto frequency, they all end up on the same channel. But if I stagger the order in which they boot up, then they all pick different frequencies. I suspect that what is going on is that when they all boot up at the same time, they are all scanning at the same time when none of them are broadcasting, so they all think that channel 1 is clear and so they all pick it. The CAP will not pick a new channel until the interface has been disabled and re-enabled, which makes sense: if they were continually listening for a better channel to switch to while operating, they would have to kick all associated clients off every time they did a sweep because one radio cannot tune into 2 channels at the same time. The only way to implement active, continual channel scanning would be to have a second radio that is always in listen-only mode.

One possible solution that MikroTik might look into is having each CAP add a random delay to turning on the radio every time it boots up. Actually, I might be able to do this with a startup script on each CAP, now that I think about it. I will have to do some experimentation.

-- Nathan

It makes no sense. It is supposed to be able to continuously monitor in order to use the DFS spectrum. Not having that spectrum cuts the available channels in 1/2. Its non-functional the way it operates now.. I might even venture to say the software is breaking the hardwares FCC compliance.

EDIT: You don't need to have the device in scanning mode to listen for interference. Thats how radar detect works. It detects something on ITS channel, then changes the channel to avoid interference.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:02 am
by NathanA
It makes no sense. It is supposed to be able to continuously monitor in order to use the DFS spectrum.
We aren't talking about the DFS requirement for certain 5GHz bands for outdoor use. CAPsMAN is for deploying, configuring, and maintaining APs for indoor use in an 802.11 LAN.

The CAPsMAN auto frequency basically just instructs the CAP to use "frequency=auto" on the wireless interface. And "frequency=auto" is equivalent to "dfs-mode=no-radar-detect", as Normis clarifies for us here: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 24#p416324 -- so, yeah, it isn't listening for radar on the current channel.
EDIT: You don't need to have the device in scanning mode to listen for interference. Thats how radar detect works. It detects something on ITS channel, then changes the channel to avoid interference.
I wasn't talking about having the device in scanning mode to find interference on the current channel. I was talking about having the device in scanning mode in order to find other channels to switch to if interference is detected on the current one, or to actively look for a better channel to switch to even if no other distinct system is detected on the current one or if local RF conditions change since the last time it picked a channel.

RADAR detect is only looking for a specific type of wireless transmission, in order to avoid channels where RADAR transmission is taking place. As far as I know, it does not look for general noise, or for other 802.11 systems (except by accident, if a transmission from a neighboring 802.11 system on the same channel happens to match what it would interpret to be a RADAR pattern). The purpose of RADAR detect is not to have automatic channel co-ordination between 802.11 APs.

If radar-detect is enabled and RADAR is detected, my understanding is that the AP has to vacate the channel as soon as possible. This means that either the AP shuts down for a while while it performs another lengthy scan of the entire spectrum in order to pick a new channel, or that in order to avoid downtime, it picks a different channel at random and hopes there is no other system running on it. Neither is ideal. If there was a second radio in listen-only mode, then the AP would always have an up-to-date list of the possible good channels in the local vicinity that it could immediately hop to.

-- Nathan

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:13 am
by jarda
In other words, ap should continuously perform spectral scan, save the results and keep the scored list of available channels. And this should be done in the breaks in transmission in order not to affect normal traffic. Well.... I would like to see it implemented.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:01 pm
by roadracer96
Doesn't matter if you are indoor or outdoor. If you want to use 80mhz channels in ac, you have to use dfs or only have 2 non overlapping channels.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:06 pm
by tarik
I have this issue with both CAPsMANv1 and CAPsMANv2. Both APs are fairly close to on another and pick up the same channel, even when starting the second later on.

cap1 is the wlan in RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN, which also is the CAPsMAN
cap2 is a mAP 2n

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:54 pm
by ALX1S
Hi, Im having the same issue on 6.33.5. A RB1100Hx2 with 2 near RB411 are in the same Frequency (the space in frequency of CAP configuration is blank).

In another place I have a RB433 CAPsMAN with 6.32.2 and is working well with 2 AP (not near but are in different frequencies)

Did someone find a clue about that?

Thanks.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:55 am
by OKNET
Strange, it seems to select the same channel on all three AP when frequency set to auto.

AP2
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

AP3
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

AP4
# managed by CAPsMAN
# channel: 2412/20/g(30dBm), SSID: teknisk, CAPsMAN forwarding

On the CapsMan server
/caps-man channel
add band=2ghz-b/g comment="auto channel - 2.4ghz" name=channel-auto width=20

Running on RB433 and RB2011, disabled N due to issue with chromeplug, running ROS 5.17 with updated firmware.

I have noted the same issue with 2.4GHz radio using CAPsMAN on a 6.38.5 RB3011 controlling a pair of wAP-AC
Using "auto" channel, (or better not defining any channel on manager) at every AP reboot or radio interface restart, 2.4GHz radios place ALWAYS at 2412 , while 5GHz radios frequency change time to time

Is there any reason for this ??

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:39 am
by vmiro
I have noted the same issue with 2.4GHz radio using CAPsMAN on a 6.38.5 RB3011 controlling a pair of wAP-AC
Using "auto" channel, (or better not defining any channel on manager) at every AP reboot or radio interface restart, 2.4GHz radios place ALWAYS at 2412 , while 5GHz radios frequency change time to time

Is there any reason for this ??
I got the same problem on 6.39rc55. I got five WAP ac in a hotel which coexist with some TPlink routers. It always chooses 2412, 2422, 2427 ferequencies that are crowded. I needed to switch to manual channel selection...

mIRO

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:44 pm
by OKNET
Now, I have setup 6 of them controlled by manager with no frequency/channel set

Radio 1 (2.4Ghz) are all six to 2442/20-Ce/gn
Radio 2 (5GHz) all different frequencies

Please can we have any clarification from MikroTik staff ??

Just to know if it is correct , it is a bug, etc. any sort of answer to know how to behave with 2.4GHz config

Thank you !

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:12 pm
by lordzar
Last month I officially reported issues with capsman and 2.4 while 5g was working fine. They didn't seemed surprised, so I believe they are aware of it.

I wish they would resolve it soon, because I have a client with a high density AP configuration of 25 access points that I would love to put under control of capsman.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:50 pm
by hapi
How can I set the range of channels used for auto channel? For the Czech Republic, you have a right:
interface wireless info country-info "czech republic"   
  ranges: 5725-5875/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(14dBm)
          2402-2482/b,g,gn20,gn40(20dBm)
          2417-2457/g-turbo(20dBm)
          5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(23dBm)/passive
          5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(20dBm)/dfs,passive
          5490-5710/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5190-5310/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
          5180-5300/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
          5520-5680/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          5510-5670/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
          902-927/b,g,g-turbo,gn20,gn40(30dBm)
but indoor channel is only:
5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(23dBm)/passive
5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160(20dBm)/dfs,passive
How can I set only a range of 5170-5330 for auto?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:08 pm
by jimmyz
Hi,
academically speaking, until this feature is implemented/perfected, is it possible to have capsman enabled with several caps and manually define the channel used on each one?

This way we could manually avoid some problems, at least when the spectrum circumstances are stable.

Re: RE: Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:54 pm
by alexjhart
Hi,
academically speaking, until this feature is implemented/perfected, is it possible to have capsman enabled with several caps and manually define the channel used on each one?

This way we could manually avoid some problems, at least when the spectrum circumstances are stable.
Yes, just have to manually assign each one.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:33 am
by jimmyz
As far as I can tell, there no way to select different channels on capsman. How this could be possible?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:05 am
by ivicask
As far as I can tell, there no way to select different channels on capsman. How this could be possible?
Why not?Create as many channels you want and assign them to different aps.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:41 pm
by uldis
in v6.39 it will be possible.
Make a new CAPsMAN Channel entry with all those frequencies and specify that channel for the CAPs - it will automatically select one of those frequencies.

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:22 pm
by biatche
in v6.39 it will be possible.
Make a new CAPsMAN Channel entry with all those frequencies and specify that channel for the CAPs - it will automatically select one of those frequencies.

wanna give us an example of how XXXX works because i gave it several tries and still have no clue how it works

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:18 pm
by jimmyz
Well,
although this is something good, it is still not possible to manually determine exact channel for capsman. Is this feature in your plans?

By the way, using uldis' advice, if one needs to have selection for both bands, here is a mixed list, just as an example:
/caps-man configuration
add channel.control-channel-width=20mhz channel.extension-channel=disabled channel.frequency=2412,2437,2452,2457,2472,5240,5680,5805 country=greece datapath=\
    datapath1 mode=ap name=cfg1 ssid="SunnyIslandNet"

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:37 am
by anuser
/caps-man configuration
add channel.control-channel-width=20mhz channel.extension-channel=disabled channel.frequency=2412,2437,2452,2457,2472,5240,5680,5805 country=greece datapath=\
    datapath1 mode=ap name=cfg1 ssid="SunnyIslandNet"
Interesting, currently I use two CAPSMAN configuration, 1 for 2.4Ghz and 1 for 5Ghz. There shouldn't be any functional difference?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:25 pm
by jimmyz
There shouldn't be any functional difference?
No, not at all. By not defining the band, each cAP selects from the existing list the best possible choice.

Lately, I use this channel list. Of course, I also choose it in capsman configuration, to make it in use. Change it accordingly to your country settings.
/caps-man channel
add control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2412,2417,2422,2427,2432,2437,2442,2447,2452,2457,2462,2467,2472,5180,5200,5220,5240,5260,5280,5300,5320,5500,5520,5540,5560,5580,5600,5620,5640,5660,5680 name=capsman-channel-list-2GHz-5GHz

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:45 pm
by magneto
in v6.39 it will be possible.
Make a new CAPsMAN Channel entry with all those frequencies and specify that channel for the CAPs - it will automatically select one of those frequencies.
"Automatically select" base on what? Any kind of scan? Is this process inteligent? I mean- does MT check what channels are used on nearest APs an choose the best chanel like in other enterprise WiFI systems?

Re: CAPsMAN auto frequency

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:57 pm
by pbaumgartner
Did anyone try to set CAPsMAN --> Channels --> Reselect Interveral ? This worked for me and the CAPs automatically reselected the frequency.