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Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:21 pm
by normis
Announcing 802.11ac and more!

In this issue:

- 802.11ac products and software
- Winbox 3 beta
- HomeVPN "one click" PPTP/IPsec server
- Wallpaper and T-shirt designs

http://download2.mikrotik.com/news/news_60.pdf

Devices available so far (others coming soon):

http://routerboard.com/RBSXTG-5HPacD
http://routerboard.com/RBSXTG-5HPacD-SA
http://routerboard.com/RB911G-5HPacD-NB

ac.jpg

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:46 pm
by sguox
Woohoo!!!!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:51 pm
by CyberTod
The log in the new winbox is not autoscrolling which is very annoying.
Also I can't find a way to use it from within The Dude. Any thoughts on that ?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:58 pm
by normis
The log in the new winbox is not autoscrolling which is very annoying.
Also I can't find a way to use it from within The Dude. Any thoughts on that ?
once you scroll down, it will autoscroll. just tested.

dude ... well, there is a separate topic for that. when Dude will get an update, then

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:07 pm
by Bergante
Hmm I really want to test those new -AC toys. When will they be available?

And the newsletter access from the homepage says "access denied".

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:11 pm
by normis
Hmm I really want to test those new -AC toys. When will they be available?
shipping to distributors already
And the newsletter access from the homepage says "access denied".
fixed the link, thanks!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:19 pm
by nz_monkey
WinBox 3, Thank you Mikrotik !!!!!

The group and sort function will save me a lot of time. The new logging features are very welcome.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:21 pm
by CyberTod
Just asked a distributor in Bulgaria about the AC products, he said - "No information available"

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:25 pm
by normis
Just asked a distributor in Bulgaria about the AC products, he said - "No information available"
good, keep asking :) this should put them on the phone right away :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:35 pm
by Bergante
Just asked a distributor in Bulgaria about the AC products, he said - "No information available"
good, keep asking :) this should put them on the phone right away :)
Haha, same here. I'm hoping for my usual distributor (Eurodk) to have them available. Come on guys, I want to place an order as soon as possible!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:52 pm
by WirelessRudy
Aaarrrggghhhh, I ditched my playboy to read this newsletter..... Finally, walhalla is getting closer... aaahhh, shit, where´s the tissue box.... :D :D :D oempfff, better than sex... what great news.... "winbox 3" That I ever would live to get my wishes heard... aaaahhhhhhhh

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:21 pm
by Shiro
Nice stuff :)

Looks like i have to say goodbye to my good old 493G to get 802.11ac /sad

RB953GS-5HnT + R11EAC should be a good replacement for an uptodate ap? :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:23 pm
by vladimirslk
recommended price for R11e-ac? is it 2x2 or 3x3?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:31 pm
by waldeir
RBSXTG-5HPacD (LITE)version it will be available?
thanks

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:53 pm
by djdrastic
Apart from designs.mikrotik.com everything looks great.

Cannot wait for the AC stuff to land.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:42 pm
by normis
Apart from designs.mikrotik.com
you don't like the nice shirt designs ? :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:30 pm
by wenasong
R11e-ac is what I'm waiting for.

Buying COMPEX's AC Cards are a current expensive alternative yet not readily available.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:38 am
by rzirzi
New RouterBoards SXT ac: Supported Voltage 15-60V - BAD!!! The worst news! The 9-30V range at RB's was IDEAL range. The new range is very, very bad!!!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:23 am
by djdrastic
Apart from designs.mikrotik.com
you don't like the nice shirt designs ? :)
Just not for me ;) I get what you guys are trying to do by getting some brand awareness going though.
Would prefer some stickers or plain brand posters personally for the IT room.
How many people are actually going to take those AI files and print T-shirts is questionable.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:57 pm
by honzam
New RouterBoards SXT ac: Supported Voltage 15-60V - BAD!!! The worst news! The 9-30V range at RB's was IDEAL range. The new range is very, very bad!!!
Why?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:31 pm
by onnoossendrijver
It's sad that 12v is not supported anymore. But I like the fact that 48v is supported now.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:20 pm
by Basdno
New RouterBoards SXT ac: Supported Voltage 15-60V - BAD!!! The worst news! The 9-30V range at RB's was IDEAL range. The new range is very, very bad!!!

I second that!!! Is there any particular reason why this has been changed in new AC series?

I was so excited to see AC equipment finally arriving, but this turned out to be a little bummer! Makes an unnecessary limit to where I can deploy the equipment! Still can use it many places, but not in 12v scenarios.

12v (and down to 9v when batteries loose charging) have been one of my big loves with Mikrotik equipment!

Makes it very easy to depoly for 240v normal customers(with normal power supply), as well as f.ex. Cabin customers who only have solar power or similar since they then could just connect directly to battery and it didnt stop even if battery wasnt fully charged.

And the place where 9-30 range excels even more is if u have a remote Repeater/AP somewhere where there is no ordinary power and have to use BATTERYBANK and f.eks SOLAR/WIND-Turbine.
No need to use any costly(and most importantly POWERCONSUMING) voltage transforming equimpent.

I even several places where I have 240v power, still use a 12 battery and Charger and connect my Mikrotik equipment to battery. This way I have failsafe power if power goes down for WEEKS often, and also in my experience protects the equipment from lightning damages. Mostly, if anything, gets killed at all by the lightning, its only the charger that needs replacing. And since battery is there anyway, no downtime whatsoerver for my customers.
And of course NO NEED for costly, powerconsuming and unreliable UPS systems when u can use 12v directly!
I even have ALARM if power fail included in Routerboard, by setting a script to watch voltage of board, and if voltage drops below a certain threshold it sends me an email warning me about it. Giving me plenty of time to check out whats wrong, plan repairs, order spare parts if necessary and execute a repair. (Well mostly its just been changing a fuse on the charger ;))
But if u have stations in remote places this is very handy!

So for me the most important voltage range on Mikrotik equipment is actually the range from 9v up to about 14v thats the range a battery system with charger usually will be around.

And sure I could use 24v and do the same(even have some stations with that), but that would mean I would have to use 2 batteries and more expensive 24v chargers on all stations/places since the most used battery voltage is 12v. That would be overkill in most scenarios, and only drive up the initial cost and space requirements for APs and Repeater stations.

So please, dont ruin one of the BIGGEST and BEST Benefits of Mikrotik equipment!!! Make equipment available that works from 9v and up!!!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:15 pm
by ste
48V is telecoms standard. We use it to feed switches, wimax BS, Licensed gear, ... Higher Voltage is lower loss on longer cable runs.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:35 pm
by avantwireless
Agreed on the 9V and up. It WAS :( one of your biggest advantages over all the Ubiquiti equipment as UBNT is very unreliable at the lower voltages and MT would work on longer cable runs with less than 24V input. We really hope that MT goes back to the lower voltages ASAP. Telecom standard? Like that is anything that we should look up to?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:35 pm
by InoX

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:51 pm
by honzam
Sxt AC have maximal power consumption 12W.

With 9V or 12V powering it is 1-1,33A. It is not suitable for powering on long UTP.
You can use two 12V bateries for powering.
Yes, it's expensive but you get 2x more power in case of power failure

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:27 pm
by Basdno
Sxt AC have maximal power consumption 12W.

With 9V or 12V powering it is 1-1,33A. It is not suitable for powering on long UTP.
You can use two 12V bateries for powering.
Yes, it's expensive but you get 2x more power in case of power failure


It doesnt necesserily need long UTP runs with such setups, that is often the advantage. (Either you can put the powersource closer to station(solar/wind f.ex.), or you can use a good grade normal power cable to transport 12 power to station(Then you need to calculate a bit on the loss in cable thou to be sure), and either connect directly to Routerboard via powerjack or use PoE on the last couple of meters up to the antenna.).

(With the 9v-up voltagerange you even have the possibility if you have to use a very long cabe to put in 24v in at the powersource, and still run your equipment well in other end even if the voltage loss is 12v on the way. However this is more of an emergency solution, but helps to show the versatility of the voltagerange Mikrotik has had all along. )

This is why I do not understand why they changed it to 15-60v!? The only apparent advantage as I see that you gain is the ability to plug directly into 48v PoE Switches/UPS solutions or the like.
But I still argue that the advantages of the low voltages for a WISP are far greater then those of higher voltages.
And there is also now a large variety of 24v PoE switches on the market, Ubiquiti now even have PoE switches where you can choose 24v/48v on a PER PORT basis in GUI! ( http://www.ubnt.com/accessories/toughswitch/ ).
Maybe Mikrotik will see the need and release a similar products soon too?! Hint hint ;D ;D ;D

And yes, as I said it is possible to use 2 batteries serial-connected to deliver 24v, but that does NOT mean that you get double the power in cause of power failure.
If serial connected to 24v you get higher voltage, but current(Ahours) remain THE SAME!
Example:
-If you have 2 x 100Ah batteries 12v that are SERIAL connected you get= 24v BUT still 100Ah current.
-If you want to increase current by connecting more batteries togheter you need to connect them in PARALLEL, then the same 2 x100Ah batteries 12v would give you a bank still at 12v but with a doubled "runtime" of 200Ah.

Another drawback of having to use 2 or more batteries is that you often will need bigger cabinets. If used for a small repeater station at a customers location or the like, that is not always appreaciated.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:36 pm
by Basdno

I see your point, but why change onboard Routerboard feature that has worked so perfectly since dawn of Routerboard?
Also introduces a new point of failure in the setup that wasnt necessery before!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:29 pm
by mcdebugger
Maybe this will make us closer to 802.3af, 802.3at common support? :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:54 pm
by onnoossendrijver
And yes, as I said it is possible to use 2 batteries serial-connected to deliver 24v, but that does NOT mean that you get double the power in cause of power failure.
If serial connected to 24v you get higher voltage, but current(Ahours) remain THE SAME!
Example:
-If you have 2 x 100Ah batteries 12v that are SERIAL connected you get= 24v BUT still 100Ah current.
-If you want to increase current by connecting more batteries togheter you need to connect them in PARALLEL, then the same 2 x100Ah batteries 12v would give you a bank still at 12v but with a doubled "runtime" of 200Ah.
That's not true. Your amp draw will be half when using 24v instead of 12v.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:50 pm
by HaQs
15-60V is a better solution.
If the RB will have galvanic isolation.

Allowing you to connect the power-48V DC "-"


+24 and -48V DC input is the ideal solution

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:38 am
by yeow
What chipset that you are using?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:42 am
by normis
Maybe this will make us closer to 802.3af, 802.3at common support? :)
SXT ac supports real 802.3af/at standard.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:01 am
by WirelessRudy
15-60V is a better solution.
If the RB will have galvanic isolation.

Allowing you to connect the power-48V DC "-"


+24 and -48V DC input is the ideal solution
Can you explain this a bit better?
"galvanic" isolation?
"+"24 and "-"48 DC input ...etc? What do you mean. Each DC has + and - ? I don't understand what you are trying to say here.... probably I'm not alone...

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:05 am
by WirelessRudy
Maybe this will make us closer to 802.3af, 802.3at common support? :)
SXT ac supports real 802.3af/at standard.
In 2008 I accidentally ordered a box of 48v adapters. There collecting dust since..... now I can make use for them! :D
On the other hand, I presume nowadays most CPE's come with their power adapter anyway. And due the use of controlled power supply by Omnitik and/or rb750UP's I see now my stack of adapters growing faster than we actually have the need for them.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:16 am
by WirelessRudy
The new voltage range brings me also a new issue; What about rb750UP and Omnitiks? Do they support this new power? So here we still fall back on 24V usage?

Are their any new rb750UP successors planned that can handle the 48V?
And if MT is planning these, can we see any rb780UP's (8 ports, or even more) coming? We need full control with monitoring (and automation by means of the scripts) of remote locations. If we are going to design new 48V power supplies we might as well have them coming in 8-10 port versions...
And yes, the ultimate box would have the output voltage selectable, PER port. Only than it could supply both old as new units (and camera's etc) so we don't have to replace the whole powersetup and hardware lines....
(I also suggest that box would have a straight power cable connector for the battery connection. The plug and/or PoE could than server as backup power supply wit auto failover [diode])

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:32 am
by andriys
And yes, the ultimate box would have the output voltage selectable, PER port. Only than it could supply both old as new units (and camera's etc) so we don't have to replace the whole powersetup and hardware lines....
The old voltage range (9-30V) and the new one (15-60V) overlap. It should be possible to power both old and new devices with the same voltage withing the range of 15-30V.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:03 pm
by WirelessRudy
And yes, the ultimate box would have the output voltage selectable, PER port. Only than it could supply both old as new units (and camera's etc) so we don't have to replace the whole powersetup and hardware lines....
The old voltage range (9-30V) and the new one (15-60V) overlap. It should be possible to power both old and new devices with the same voltage withing the range of 15-30V.
Yes, and No. I have cameras working on 12V. I have some other old equipments working on 12V. I have my AP's working on 24V. But if I am going to install the more powerful ac radio's in my towers, I'd like to power them up with 48V.
So yes, there are definitely usages (users) that can do with a adjustable power output range. Or I do need to start working with all kind of different step-up or step-down boxes. My cabinet is already full......

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:06 pm
by normis
Yes, the new 'SXT ac' still accepts (24V) PoE from Omnitik and RB750UP

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:38 pm
by WirelessRudy
Yes, the new 'SXT ac' still accepts (24V) PoE from Omnitik and RB750UP
well, the question was more; "Do we see Omnitik and rb750up's coming that can actually work with 48V?
I understood the new 'ac' units are backwards compatible with 24V. That's what the specs tell....
But now these new units are 48V, do we see more product becoming available into 48V? Special the ones that can deliver PoE-out; do we see these coming in 48V versions? (So, a 48V Omnitik or rb750up that than can supply 48V to these new 'ac' boxes?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:44 pm
by normis
Sure, we will try to expand supported voltage range (12-60V) and try to introduce more 802.3af/at devices, but as you know, I can't comment anything specific.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:07 pm
by janisk
speaking about 12W power usage of SXT ac - please note that it will not be easy to reach such power consumption

As you go with regulatory limitations and higher data rates - power usage will drop significantly.

With connected client (running AP) you get 3W - 4W power usage.

We are listing max consumption so you can calculate power draw for worst case scenarios for your solar/wind setups.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:35 pm
by WirelessRudy
Don't forget to look at these wishes; http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 78#p408078 :D

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:57 pm
by Kola
NetBox license level is 3 or 4? Product page says 3 and brochure says 4. Should be l4 as it is suggested as AP, but RB911 family traditionally has l3.

Article RB911G-5HPacD-NB seems isn't correct since the device maintains USB at least.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:52 pm
by Basdno
Sure, we will try to expand supported voltage range (12-60V) and try to introduce more 802.3af/at devices, but as you know, I can't comment anything specific.


Thx, that sounded uplifting towards the future of continued use of around 12v scenarios in the future.
So if I understand u correctly, it is possible that future products may be able to support broader range of voltages like 12-60v! And that would be a good compromise for most of my use-scenarios atleast, as long as the range starts at 12v, so RBs can still work directly off a 12v battery! :D

Concerning POE switches:
A POE switch with 8 or 8+ ports, that could handle 12-24-48v output, configurable on a PER PORT basis would be AWSOME for most tower applications(With Gigabit ofc now in the new ac age!) !

And/or if Mikrotik want to introduce more higher voltages in new products, maybe a POE switch that can be powered by 9-60v and deliver 12-24-48v out?(I dont even know if that is possible, I am just throwing outs some ideas here now! ;))

In any case, Keep up the good work Mikrotik! :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:38 pm
by HaQs
In connection with the earlier questions, explain:

Power -48V DC (sign - before the voltage means that the device ground has been linked to positive)

+24 V DC (+ sign in front of the voltage means that the device ground has been linked to negative)

If the unit / power supply device has galvanic isolation of the power is a sign does not matter. (electronics device is then galvanically isolated from the input power and there is no possibility of a short circuit)

However, if it does not have it by connecting +24 V to-48V power supply, eg we do short circuit.
If you do not have galvanic isolation if it gets shorted, then either strikes a fuse or burn some equipment (if the fuse does not exist)


-48V DC is a telecommunication standard (used in professional a power supply telecommunications operators which use eg GSM, xPON, all professional radiolines on licensed bands also use this standard power supply)

Also, if a new device RouterBoard have to supply 15-60V DC and galvanic isolation input power could be the total of each power supply, both +24 V and -48 without the use of additional DC converter.

Please confirm whether the new device will have galvanic isolation of the input power supply

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:06 am
by WirelessRudy
So, this IS IMPORTANT!
Actually you are saying that in the case if MT routerboards and devices are not galvanic isolated from earth, and when with the new line of products with positive to ground becomes mixed with 'old' units that have negative to ground we are asking for problems in our installations?

What has MT to say about this?


[I'm coming from the world of car mechanics and marine industry and here its always negative to ground. So I am actually surprised to learn that there exists systems that work with "+" to ground. Now it makes sense I once came across a solar charger that had to be grounded to earth from "+" whereof most other solar chargers have "-" to earth.
It also gives me a clue why I have one tower that has an issue. For earthing all the radios it uses the same earth line in use by a 'real' telcon operator to earth their equipments. (probably +48V systems) where I considered it to be easy and safe to use their same earth cable for earthing all my MT stuff. After all, earth = earth?
On that install I still have one unit that I cannot earth. The moment I connect it to earth it makes all my other stuff go bananas..... even an electrician could not tell me what happens.... but my main rb1100AH starts to reboot the moment this unit on the roof is connected to earth...
Maybe I found my issue now?
Or would it make no difference if different systems use same earth. I mean, the 220V AC house network is basically connected to the same earth pole driven into the soil....., I believe?]

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:45 am
by jarda
Seems you were not with cars for the time long enough to see the cars with positive pole on chassis. Anyway you are right. It is better to have all devices with the same grounding.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:43 am
by HaQs
Seems you were not with cars for the time long enough to see the cars with positive pole on chassis. Anyway you are right. It is better to have all devices with the same grounding.
galvanic isolation solves all problems
If device has it then does not matter whether grounded is + or -

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:45 am
by normis
NetBox license level is 3 or 4? Product page says 3 and brochure says 4. Should be l4 as it is suggested as AP, but RB911 family traditionally has l3.

Article RB911G-5HPacD-NB seems isn't correct since the device maintains USB at least.
License level is 4 and Netbox doesn't have USB

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:40 pm
by normis
SXT ac does not have galvanic isolation and it supports only positive 48V. May be later we will add -48V support to some new products.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
by WirelessRudy
Seems you were not with cars for the time long enough to see the cars with positive pole on chassis. Anyway you are right. It is better to have all devices with the same grounding.
galvanic isolation solves all problems
If device has it then does not matter whether grounded is + or -
Ok, but do we know if MT routerboards are galvanic isolated? I don't think so. I've had several instances in the past where an occasional touch of a plus wire to the casing of and board housing cause sparks or the routerboard to be rebooted....

I think this new voltage with the different earth side connection is very important to us all and to know how it really is.... So if normis or any of MT can shine a light on this issue would be much appreciated....!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:54 pm
by WirelessRudy
SXT ac does not have galvanic isolation and it supports only positive 48V. May be later we will add -48V support to some new products.
oeps, my post just crossed yours...

But anyway, shouldn't it be mentioned now that these units can't be used in earthed situations together with -12 or -24V situations. Or ru just happy the unaware user is burning his stuff and has to buy new?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:10 pm
by thasser
Is there anything in the works for an NV2 equivalent of 802.11ac?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:16 pm
by WirelessRudy
Actually this whole "-" or "+" earth issue brings a whole line of weird issues to the surface now..

I am having one installation were my tower is actually at the same building as telcons mobile phone antenna systems.
It's there for years now, and I have even longer my tower at the same site with all kinds of MT antennas and devices.
Some two/three years ago I started to use shielded (ftp) ethernet cables to connect, and interconnect my devices which most of them were up to these days unearthed as well. Even my tower was unearthed for years and functioning fine.
But probably around the days of the introduction of ftp together with giga ports we were getting weird power related issues. So I ended up to earth all my antenna's, all my indoor gateway routers (like a rb1100AH in a professional cabinet, all earthed) and even the 24V volt battery backup system ("-" to earth) to an earth ring line that was conveniently deployed by an telco while installing their stuff........ 8)
But we actually never got rid of the weird issues and we found that several units better not be earthed or interconnected just to keep them running..... I lost several boards in short cuts were we didn't had a clue where they were coming from...
We even had qualified electrician look at the site, an ex radio engineer, but nobody had a clue....
In the end most boards were all connected same, where the antenna's mostly are not connected to any earth. That was the only working way...

Until I red the post of HaQs I never knew anything about different type of connections to earth....
So now I think I have to separate my earth connections completely from the telcons earth and hopefully it solves my problems.....

Why nobody else ever reported similar issue on this forum? Maybe because it is not very usual to have a tower location shared between wifi user and telco? Or the ones that do just happen to know? Or just were puzzled like me and never mentioned?

Anyway, I think it to be very irresponsible for MT if they now bring a line of product to the market that inherently will create issues if used in combination with their old and present line of products and they are going to be connected in a 'the book tell us to do so" type of manner (=all earthed). Users should at least be warned against probable issues!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:25 pm
by WirelessRudy
Is there anything in the works for an NV2 equivalent of 802.11ac?
hmm, Is it not? I don't know, haven seen an ac unit yet in real. But ROS 6.17 should be 'ac'-compatible. 6.17 on any other radio has NV2. Does your post mean the NV2 options are not available? Or do they just not work? Or is it inherent to the 8702.11ac protocol that tdma is not supported?

I am just anxious to know how the situation is. I was planning on buying some ac kit to deploy a new tower for a set of new clients. But if tdma is not working or available I am afraid that ac, even with its standard build in interference avoidances, still will suffer in a matter of years by all the other towers that probably are going to be converted into ac in the times to come...
I hated it to have to replace my units every so many years, so I'd rather wait until a product line is a bit more matured before I start to deploy.
Meaning at the same time I am walking behind the competition that asap push the new line of ubnt products in every corner of the country.

So yes, MT; tdma on ac? When? How? Or, why not?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:39 pm
by HaQs
SXT ac does not have galvanic isolation and it supports only positive 48V. May be later we will add -48V support to some new products.
As it is unnecessary in SXT

-48V power supply is used only in bigger base point

Also, this functionality has been greatly appreciated by 2-3 products:
CRS with more SFP fiber to aggregation NETMETALs fibers
in NETMETALs
maybe in QRTac

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:20 pm
by WirelessRudy
SXT ac does not have galvanic isolation and it supports only positive 48V. May be later we will add -48V support to some new products.
As it is unnecessary in SXT

-48V power supply is used only in bigger base point

Also, this functionality has been greatly appreciated by 2-3 products:
CRS with more SFP fiber to aggregation NETMETALs fibers
in NETMETALs
maybe in QRTac
"Unnecessary in SXT", because normally nobody connects these to ground... but what if someone now decides to follow manual and does connect it?
And what happens when ftp cable is used, that obviously has to be on ground. And if not, it still interconnects two boards. If the board is not galvanic isolated, and the other end isn't neither but opposite ground, what than? Fireworks? Or just a bit of smoke......

The literature actually states that on both ends of the ftp cable both the equipments should be earthed to achieve 1Gb port status.

So, although SXT-ac might not really need to be earth connected to work, the moment you want to connect it with ftp cable to get the most out of the throughput you will have an issue....

I think this really needed to sort out properly otherwise MT is going to see a lot of comments coming their direction.... :(

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:50 pm
by Basdno
Is there anything in the works for an NV2 equivalent of 802.11ac?
hmm, Is it not? I don't know, haven seen an ac unit yet in real. But ROS 6.17 should be 'ac'-compatible. 6.17 on any other radio has NV2. Does your post mean the NV2 options are not available? Or do they just not work? Or is it inherent to the 8702.11ac protocol that tdma is not supported?

I am just anxious to know how the situation is. I was planning on buying some ac kit to deploy a new tower for a set of new clients. But if tdma is not working or available I am afraid that ac, even with its standard build in interference avoidances, still will suffer in a matter of years by all the other towers that probably are going to be converted into ac in the times to come...
I hated it to have to replace my units every so many years, so I'd rather wait until a product line is a bit more matured before I start to deploy.
Meaning at the same time I am walking behind the competition that asap push the new line of ubnt products in every corner of the country.

So yes, MT; tdma on ac? When? How? Or, why not?


Both NV2 and Nstreme are stated to work on ac products! :)

Product info from Routerboard.com:
SXT ac

The new AC standard is here, with up to 866Mbit over the air datarate, 256-QAM modulation, and 80MHz channels. 802.11ac opens up new possibilities and speeds never possible before.

The SXT ac is a new member in our 802.11ac product lineup, currently two models are available — with regular 28 degree antenna, and the SA model with a 90 wide beam- width sector antenna. Also supports 802.11a/n mode and is compatible with all legacy RouterBOARD devices, including Nstream and Nv2 protocols. Both devices come with Gigabit Ethernet.


http://routerboard.com/RBSXTG-5HPacD

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:49 am
by marcin21
When R11e AC is going to be available?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:34 am
by rwaters
nstream and nv2 seem to be available on 802.11ac. I have options for it and tabs in winbox. I don't have a second board yet to see if it functions.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:03 am
by CyberTod
I don't even have a 1st board to try :)
But you can click Apply and if some combination is not allowed it should warn you, altough I'm sure it is supported, there is no reason not to.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 am
by normis
SXT ac does not have galvanic isolation and it supports only positive 48V. May be later we will add -48V support to some new products.
oeps, my post just crossed yours...

But anyway, shouldn't it be mentioned now that these units can't be used in earthed situations together with -12 or -24V situations. Or ru just happy the unaware user is burning his stuff and has to buy new?

In -12V, -24V or -48V case negative line and 0V (zero potential) line are isolated from board ground common (secondary) ground by transformer so there is no risk to "burn" your board. The same is already done in RB800 : it has galvanic isolation and can function with both positive and negative voltages. You can buy one and see how it works :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:15 am
by kometchtech
Price and time of sale to the public of R11E ac is worrisome.
This is also 2×2? Or 3×3?

Best regards

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:41 am
by honzam

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:43 am
by kometchtech
Thank you for information.
Solved one question.

Best regards.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:57 am
by port9nka
Really good news!
r11eac is seems based on AR9882 2*2, what about AR9880 and 3*3? I saw replies on other forums that compex ar9880 3*3 solution don't work yet with mikrotik. And it is damn expensive :(
Would this card (r11eac) work with 912-series (external mini-pcie), not only with rb800/900 board?

BTW (about t-shirts)- mikrotik logo with "routing the world' is more recognizable and certanly needed :lol:

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:06 am
by kometchtech
Really good news!
r11eac is seems based on AR9882 2*2, what about AR9880 and 3*3? I saw replies on other forums that compex ar9880 3*3 solution don't work yet with mikrotik. And it is damn expensive :(
Would this card (r11eac) work with 912-series (external mini-pcie), not only with rb800/900 board?
Because I believe that he's flicking a R11E ac to RB912UAG-2HPnD-OUT, the information will be very concerned about.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:30 am
by rwaters
Really good news!
r11eac is seems based on AR9882 2*2, what about AR9880 and 3*3? I saw replies on other forums that compex ar9880 3*3 solution don't work yet with mikrotik. And it is damn expensive :(
Would this card (r11eac) work with 912-series (external mini-pcie), not only with rb800/900 board?

BTW (about t-shirts)- mikrotik logo with "routing the world' is more recognizable and certanly needed :lol:

Compex wle900vx 3*3 is working on rb912, not cheap but ar9888 and working on 3 chains in ROS.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:06 am
by Kola
License level is 4 and Netbox doesn't have USB
Thank you, Normis. I've already seen you fixed the description.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:18 am
by wispwest
You say these products are now available, where can I purchase them? I need to upgrade some backhauls ASAP. Also, there's a new Mini-PCI card, 802.11ac, high-power, that I can fit into a rb800. Any ETA on that? I bought a couple on ebay, 3 chain with MMCX connectors, but the card is so big it won't fit because of pins and the clamp bar that holds the cooling fan.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:21 am
by normis
You say these products are now available, where can I purchase them? I need to upgrade some backhauls ASAP. Also, there's a new Mini-PCI card, 802.11ac, high-power, that I can fit into a rb800. Any ETA on that? I bought a couple on ebay, 3 chain with MMCX connectors, but the card is so big it won't fit because of pins and the clamp bar that holds the cooling fan.
You need to be careful when purchasing miniPCIe ac cards, some of them are wider than normal, which means they don't fit in RouterBOARD products.
The SXT ac and Netbox ac products are on their way to distributors worldwide, many of them should have received them already.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:15 am
by marcin21
when RB11e AC will be send to distributors ?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:15 pm
by CyberTod
AC products starting to appear on Bulgarian distributors. Still they are 'coming soon' but getting closer now with expected dates to be available.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:10 pm
by dadaniel
From SXTac Datasheet: "802.3af/at supported (Mode B. requires crossover cable)" ... Does this mean that it will only link at 100Mbit when using 802.3af/at? Because Wikipedia says that "Mode B delivers power on the spare pairs".

But there are no spare pairs when using Gigabit

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:45 pm
by WirelessRudy
AC products starting to appear on Bulgarian distributors. Still they are 'coming soon' but getting closer now with expected dates to be available.
https://www.interprojekt.com.pl/advance ... 25_07_2014

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:06 pm
by mennowz
Just ordered 4 SXT AC units from distributor :) , it's needed because one of our internet feeds has been upgraded to 200Mbps.

Will give updates once i have received them.

Rudy : i tried contacting you for a while, email me please mennowz at gmail dot com

Menno

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:17 pm
by mcdebugger
Maybe this will make us closer to 802.3af, 802.3at common support? :)
SXT ac supports real 802.3af/at standard.
Yup I saw it :)) Thanks for this!
I mean in all future products :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:53 am
by wispwest
You say these products are now available, where can I purchase them? I need to upgrade some backhauls ASAP. Also, there's a new Mini-PCI card, 802.11ac, high-power, that I can fit into a rb800. Any ETA on that? I bought a couple on ebay, 3 chain with MMCX connectors, but the card is so big it won't fit because of pins and the clamp bar that holds the cooling fan.
You need to be careful when purchasing miniPCIe ac cards, some of them are wider than normal, which means they don't fit in RouterBOARD products.
The SXT ac and Netbox ac products are on their way to distributors worldwide, many of them should have received them already.
Yes, I was able to get one model to work, but the bigger one that is wider, with the much better MMCX ports is too wide. Dang!! Question, why the heck are you guys making the R11E-AC card a Mini-PCIe, instead of all the standard PCI cards? Does it support faster speeds on PCI or something?

Also, when can we expect R11E-AC, I have tons of PtP's using RB800's that I've been swapping out with AirFiber 5Ghz because there was nothing else to support faster rates on 5Ghz. I'm DYING to test out the R11E-AC cards with my existing RB800 boards as an upgrade. Quicker, and possibly faster rates. I'm hoping Nstreme with AC will provide the good old 1ms solid pings like we got with XR5 cards.

Also I have a feeling RB800 will be better with AC than the Netbox and other integrated products, due to the faster 800Mhz CPU and PowerPC

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:32 pm
by WirelessRudy
@wispwest; What outdoor housing do you use for these rb800's? I'd like to use them more too, but due their size I have to buy a complete cabinet just to house these. The rb4xx extended board series has plenty of outdoor boxes available. But just too small for rb800...

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:09 pm
by wispwest
@wispwest; What outdoor housing do you use for these rb800's? I'd like to use them more too, but due their size I have to buy a complete cabinet just to house these. The rb4xx extended board series has plenty of outdoor boxes available. But just too small for rb800...
I think its made by kam-fab. ODE-MTK. Nice metal enclosure white box with a hinged door that swings open.I hate those other boxes with 10 screws you have to take out everytime.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:54 pm
by onnoossendrijver
Question, why the heck are you guys making the R11E-AC card a Mini-PCIe, instead of all the standard PCI cards? Does it support faster speeds on PCI or something?
(mini)PCI-E is the industry standard these days. (mini)-PCI es getting extinct. Current wifi chips do NOT support PCI, only PCI-E.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:39 pm
by marekm
Do the 802.11ac products support 256QAM with narrower channel widths? What is the highest supported superchannel frequency? Need some PtMP gear for the upper half of licensed 5.9-6.4 GHz band that doesn't cost a small fortune; current 802.11n Atheros chips (in both MT and UBNT products) support max 6100MHz but the only channels still available to be licensed in my area are all above 6100 - any chance to go higher with the new 802.11ac products?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:56 pm
by wispwest
I've beta tested AC products already for 'another' manufacture ;-) and y'all need to also realize that you can also get more throughput using same 20/40 channel widths with AC compared to N. Its not a whole lot, but 10-20%. Where this would benefit is bands where we use smaller channels, like 900 and 2.4 10mhz channel's.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:08 am
by normis
From SXTac Datasheet: "802.3af/at supported (Mode B. requires crossover cable)" ... Does this mean that it will only link at 100Mbit when using 802.3af/at? Because Wikipedia says that "Mode B delivers power on the spare pairs".

But there are no spare pairs when using Gigabit
No, it will work at Gigabit in any case. The above text means that it supports both A and B modes, but when using B mode, you need a crossover cable.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 am
by ste
I've beta tested AC products already for 'another' manufacture ;-) and y'all need to also realize that you can also get more throughput using same 20/40 channel widths with AC compared to N. Its not a whole lot, but 10-20%. Where this would benefit is bands where we use smaller channels, like 900 and 2.4 10mhz channel's.
I expect the new chipsets to have more CPU/Memory power to help handling the nv2 overhead.
The 802.11af/.at is a great move. But I would like to see a more rugged/shielded SXT-SA.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:45 pm
by wispwest
A comment from one of the biggest distributers in the US:

"Where the new Mikrotik items are concerned, this equipment has yet to be released for distribution and pricing even remains unclear, so I will follow up on that part of your inquiry as soon as more information becomes available. Several customers have expressed an interest, so I hope to have more of an answer sooner vs. later, of course."

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:27 pm
by ste
A comment from one of the biggest distributers in the US:

"Where the new Mikrotik items are concerned, this equipment has yet to be released for distribution and pricing even remains unclear, so I will follow up on that part of your inquiry as soon as more information becomes available. Several customers have expressed an interest, so I hope to have more of an answer sooner vs. later, of course."
My Distributor in Germany has received a batch of SXT AC so I will start testing next week.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:40 am
by marcin21
I'll ask again :

when RB11e AC will be available ?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:17 pm
by Fuzzball
others coming soon
Will there be an U-5HnD equivalent or perhaps a SoHo model coming out soon? I don't want to buy a few U-5HnD units and an 802.11ac model comes out soon after.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:44 am
by wispwest
A comment from one of the biggest distributers in the US:

"Where the new Mikrotik items are concerned, this equipment has yet to be released for distribution and pricing even remains unclear, so I will follow up on that part of your inquiry as soon as more information becomes available. Several customers have expressed an interest, so I hope to have more of an answer sooner vs. later, of course."

I see a few more mentioning it will be available in about a month. Can you recommend anyone, or does anyone know of any place WITH stock? I have some PtP's that need upgraded now, I'd be more than willing to pay extra for international shipping! :)

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:07 pm
by ste
Got my first batch of SXT AC and SXT AC SA.
802.11af works fine. The non SA Version does not have a shield painting inside.
So for ptp on a loaded tower some additional shielding might be neccesary.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:09 am
by wispwest
They all said they contacted MIkrotik and it will be 8 WEEKS before the Netbox5's will start shipping, that's 2 months, great. I need upgrade some PtP's now. Only thing that's available is the SXT-AC's, which is the only item anyone has been able to get hands on.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:07 pm
by normis
They all said they contacted MIkrotik and it will be 8 WEEKS before the Netbox5's will start shipping, that's 2 months, great. I need upgrade some PtP's now. Only thing that's available is the SXT-AC's, which is the only item anyone has been able to get hands on.
It could take a while until everyone receives their shipments. SXT ac was shipped first, this is what I meant. Netbox is still not at the distributors.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac / 953GS-5HnT ?

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:55 am
by Leo72
does the 953GS-5HnT have galvanic isolation? can it function with both positive and negative voltages?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac / 953GS-5HnT ?

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:58 am
by janisk
does the 953GS-5HnT have galvanic isolation? can it function with both positive and negative voltages?
no, it does not, negative is the ground.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:26 pm
by wispwest
Testing results are in, from SXT-AC

- I wish they would've made a larger version dish of this one, like the other sextants that are 19 or 22dbi.
- Data rates: 580/192
- Signal -61/-67
- REAL TCP Throughput:
802.11 - 50/20
Nstreme - 104/50
NV2 - 74/38

I can push UDP 198M with NV2, but real TCP tests only show ~70M. Also, with TX rate of 580, I expected a lot more than just 101Mb! They should've used PowerPC instead of Mibsbe, I've never seen more than 120M with Mipsbe, doesn't matter if the rates are 580, or 866, if it can only handle true 120M then that's all your going to get!

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:08 pm
by zyzelis
You are doing something wrong.
i had 3 ptp ac configs:
802.11
nstreme
nv2
the signal was set to -52/-55
The worst result was with 802.11 (internal test ~150/150 udp)
strange, but for me the best was with nstreme: 50/50tcp ccr->stx(ac)-//-sxt(ac)-1100Ahx2 and at same time torrent download,when i get stable 20MB/s. no disconects, etc.
config was simple - ptp bridge via quickset (wds bridge)
with nv2 was little bit worse than nstreme, but i keep in mind, that test was in the lab enviroment.
tomorow i will put this ptp link in the production environment, so i will post results...
cheers

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:20 pm
by honzam
New AC products:

RB911G-5HPacD - http://forum.mikrotik.com/download/file ... w&id=17848

RB922UAGS-5HPacD -

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:25 pm
by ste
New AC products:

RB911G-5HPacD - http://forum.mikrotik.com/download/file ... w&id=17848

RB922UAGS-5HPacD -
Waiting for the boards with .af powering.

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:31 pm
by roc-noc.com
They all said they contacted MIkrotik and it will be 8 WEEKS before the Netbox5's will start shipping, that's 2 months, great. I need upgrade some PtP's now. Only thing that's available is the SXT-AC's, which is the only item anyone has been able to get hands on.
No more waiting required. We have the NetBox5 in stock now as well as all the other new Mikrotik 802.11ac products.

Tom

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:38 pm
by netwpl
when will the rb2011 box come with 802.11ac ?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:53 pm
by dadaniel
Got my first batch of SXT AC and SXT AC SA.
802.11af works fine. The non SA Version does not have a shield painting inside.
So for ptp on a loaded tower some additional shielding might be neccesary.
Is there any SXT shield kit available?

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:18 pm
by NorthAntrim
Sorry for replying to an old topic, but I made the blue "Route the world with MikroTik" wallpaper larger so it fits on my phone's screen. Here it is in case anyone else wants it:

full res
Image

Re: Newsletter 60: 802.11ac

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:24 pm
by IPANetEngineer
Very excited about the AC SXTs....we will be testing them for an event in NYC Mid-Town Manhattan...if they can survive that level of interference then I am sold :D