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Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:13 am
by hugo335i
I found out today that Mikrotik products don't comply to the Radio Equipement laws in Canada. I'm wondering why Mikrotik don't want to certify their products in Canada, is it because the wifi transmitter is too powerful?

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:48 am
by joegoldman
When you say 'illegal', was that a friend telling you or did you find out from the regulatory body themselves?

Mikrotik wireless products have regulatory domain mode for output power where it is preprogrammed with the countries output power limits and adjusts the output power accordingly. I just checked and Canada is listed - so there is no reason you couldn't deploy Mikrotik and set all to Canada regulations.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:02 am
by ste
When you say 'illegal', was that a friend telling you or did you find out from the regulatory body themselves?

Mikrotik wireless products have regulatory domain mode for output power where it is preprogrammed with the countries output power limits and adjusts the output power accordingly. I just checked and Canada is listed - so there is no reason you couldn't deploy Mikrotik and set all to Canada regulations.
A setting is no compliance statement. Countries have different requirements for usage of different bands. This is not only TX-Power. In DFS Bands the receiver has to recognize different Radar patterns or is required to follow access strategies. Some countries require to certify the product before usage. The person who uses the equipment is responsible to follow the regulations. If he does not he might get fined or/and his equipment has to be powered down. Mikrotik is quite agnostic to this fact as many other vendors and users. Until the door bells and your business goes down ...

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:48 am
by janisk
In RouterOS you have to set up regulatory domain mode, select country and set antenna gain. If user chooses not to - that is their problem.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:13 am
by ste
In RouterOS you have to set up regulatory domain mode, select country and set antenna gain. If user chooses not to - that is their problem.
Even if you did all of it you have to care and take resonsibility. Some regulations do not care so there is no problem. Some care and then you'll find out.

Following some regulations renders MT Devices useless. E.g. you can set country=germany 5,8. As MT does not implement ATPC power is reduced to an unusable value to fulfill regulations. We use other gear in this band to be compliant and work with usable power. This is known for years but MT dont care as most users ignore regulations.

DFS requirement comes in different flavors. ETSI/FCC/... define some radar patterns which have to be recognized by the gear. Some define access strategies to a channel: "Watch the channel for 60s for Radar/Usage before using it". Some vendors claim to be compliant to these definitions. Some not. In some countries it is required that the vendor does a compliance test. If you use a gear without this test you operate illegal (even if the gear would follow regulations). In some countries no vendor test is required but the operator is responsible to follow the rules.

So be informed what is allowed in canada and be informed if the policy is enforced. Canadian regulations do not drive to latvia. If it is a problem it is *your* problem ...

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:21 pm
by MaHr
Similar problem as in Canada probably can be in all Europe Countries, because Mikrotik try to put right frequency list to each country, but both indoor and outdoor frequencies to one list and is not possible to select where device will be used. Of course is possible change state DFS function on/off, which is not in relation with EN 301 893, where from version 1.5.1 (now is 1.7.2), DFS feature cannot be switched off and this is main problem in many countries, as well manual setting of transmitting power.
I don't understand, why implementation of this simple feature and add information about using Spectrum management as is described in 801.11h is for Mikrotik so big problem, because one think is say "This is user problem" and other think is "User problem become, even if we do it for it everythink".
Once, seller which have been sell Mikrotik products, must be in trouble, because if device is not in line with regulation (and force from state control of each country every day is bigger and bigger), that this product is unsellable in each european country for future and all their products must be exchanged to other in line compliance devices. As many people said here before, it will be big pitty for as powerfull device as mikrotik devices is. This devices can work very powerfully, also if will be work in line with recomendations.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:40 am
by hugo335i
As per Industry Canada Mikrotik products are not listed in the REL ( radio equipement list) http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/reltel/src ... o?lang=eng , so as long as Mikrotik products are not certified by IC (Industry Canada), these are not legal and we cannot sell them.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:29 am
by Zorro
would be first run dealogue/menu to pick regulation domain both in WebFig and WinBox with approprate setup of both properties and explitic/BOLD user consent on own responsibility to violation of local regulations.
but generally MikroTik did right decision in distribution/configuration and if thats not right for Canada - then so its be. not big loss for business, after all, other regions sales - grow MUCH quicker, anyway, than NA.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:43 pm
by normis
We have official distributors in Canada. I suggest contacting them for accurate information.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:25 pm
by CelticComms
I've had to deal with problems caused by this issue in the past (different manufacturer).

Industry Canada certification / registration is indeed required for RF equipment sold in Canada. Sometimes the exact FCC test report can be used if it isn't over a year old - but the equipment still needs to go through the registration process.

Some US/Canada testing labs or testing facilitators will handle the paperwork for both agencies while minimising duplication of effort.

IMHO - worth doing before Canadian customs block shipments - besides - Canadians are so friendly! :)

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:37 am
by BobcatGuy
Well technically, Mikrotik is the software on the hardware, Routerboard, I tried searching for RouterBoard on the Industry Canada site, and didn't find that either.

So, Don't worry Mikrotik, you can have your software in Canada!
And, Routerboard, Don't worry, I have been using your hardware for a very long time.. and no one has knocked on my door!
OH, Didn't anyone relize, that , MOST, routerboards do not have wireless, but that you need to ADD a mini PCI card to the board.

So I did a search

R52 7442A-R52 2007-12-13
R52H 7442A-R52H 2009-08-28

Those are allowed to operate I guess in Canada.

Ironically enough, I searched Ubiquiti, and I didn't see any of the products I use in that list, like Rocket M5 and NanoBridge M5... Im in big trouble.

Hmm I just bought two NetMetal 5's. and I am going to hog 80 Mhz of bandwidth.... They might knock now. I'd say, but it has the CE and FCC, and RoHS markings on it.

So at the end of the day, the Canadian market is to small to get certification, I guess?

Just stay with in the freq reguirements and power output, and who will ever know....

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:20 am
by jarda
Mikrotik is the company, not software. Software is named router os.

Re: Mikrotik illegal in Canada?

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:05 am
by CelticComms

Just stay with in the freq reguirements and power output, and who will ever know....
That assumes that the importer doesn't mind making false declarations at the point of import. Not a good long term plan!