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Arcee
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How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:31 am

So, as it relates to bandwidth requirements for a wireless internet service provider, is there a rule of thumb for calculating how much bandwidth you require for your subscribers?

Let's use the example of a 30 subscribers with an average package of 5mb down and 2mb up.

Nowadays, the average home has:
-3-5 mobile phones connected passively uploading daily pictures to the cloud,
- 2 Smart TVs streaming Netflix
- 2 Computers browsing social media sites and youtube'ing
- 1 Console Game (i.e. xbox one / PS4)

Is this a case where you just have to start with a package and let it grow as bandwidth is depleted?

Any real life stats/examples here?

Thanks in advance :)
 
tabate47
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:04 pm

This is a great question. I would love to know the answer as well.
 
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hgonzale
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:28 pm

I would do it with 100 Mbps symmetrical. Good rules for low priority and bandwidth for p2p, priority for web and VoIP and a BIG one cache system.
 
Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:46 pm

I would do it with 100 Mbps symmetrical. Good rules for low priority and bandwidth for p2p, priority for web and VoIP and a BIG one cache system.

100mb Symetrical... yikes. That could be pricey.

About that cache system, what do you recommend? Got an opensource recommendation?

Also, what's the trade-off with a cache system? You load page from a local network cache but you lose...?
 
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:56 pm

It's ultimately a betting game. You can calculate your best and worst case scenarios, but the actual speeds that the average person will experience are ultimately a gamble of how many people there will be at the time the user tests their connection.

Your best case scenario "customers*speed=speed_you_need", e.g. if you have 100 customers, 500M/200M is what you need to provide 5M/2M guaranteed speed for each customer.

Your worst case scenario is "speed_you_have/customers=speed_you_can_guarantee" so f.e. if you have a guaranteed 100M/100M speed available and have 100 customers, you can guarantee up to 1M/1M, and if you offer all customers 5M/2M, then certainly not everyone will be able to experience it all of the time.

You can calculate how many customers may experience their maximum speed at once (before any speed drops begin) by swapping the variables in the equation above, i.e. "speed_you_have/speed_you_promise=customers"... e.g. if you have 100M/100M and promise 5M/2M, then no more than 20 customers must be downloading at the same time in order for said 20 people to experience their maximum download speeds, and no more than 50 customers must be uploading at the same time in order for said 50 customers to experience their maximum upload speeds.
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:05 am

It depends.

I have towers with 30 clients which use 60Mbps during peak hours. I have towers with 50 clients which use 12Mbps during peak hours. It depends on the customers. Younger clients tend to use more bandwidth than older clients. Wealthier clients tend to use more bandwidth than less wealthy clients. But there are no hard and fast rules. You don't get to use good statistical averaging until you get to populations of many hundred clients. For us, it varies wildly from neighborhood to neighborhood. Overall, with approximately 2,000 clients we see about 750Mbps download and 110Mbps upload usage on the peak night of the month at the peak time. That is approximately 380Kbps/55Kbps per customer or 11.5Mbps/1.65Mbps for the "average" group of 30 clients. That won't touch my heavier usage neighborhoods.

If you billing method is based on bytes transferred, users will typically be more careful about not leaving a TV streaming video while they are not in the room, which helps reduce your bandwidth requirements.

If you can start with a 100Mbps or 1Gbps physical connection with a small to medium commit rate, which can be quickly increased or decreased. You can get started and then size your monthly commitment to match your customers. Start high if you can afford it, just in case. You don't want your network to be perceived as slow, if your customers have other options.

You can get away with less bandwidth if you do a lot of Quality of Service work on your network. QoS is an advanced topic. Bandwidth is often less expensive than the time, or hardware/service, to get the QoS right so that users are slowed down without perceiving the slowdown.
 
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:49 am

The price? Depends of the country. Here in Spain you can get 200 Mbps si metrical for about 50 US$ ( http://www.jazztel.com/internet/fibra-n ... HPC22t5mK0 press OFERTAS) you will see 200 Mbps 30 Eur.

And the others friends are in the true. but you must do a SUM for your CIR customers, is the starting point. Remember, is very improbable to all customers navigating at maximum speed in the same moment. When you navigate, you press, download, watch. The streaming videos download and stop and the people watching. You need to prioritize traffic and limit some kinds of traffic like p2p. For example, in a 100 Mbps I choose maximum 10 Mbps for p2p. NO more
 
Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:02 am

Wow.. that's very inexpensive.

My country is more like $500/month for 10mb symmetrical.
 
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:43 am

Wow very expensive.
Talking about the proxy I recommend a Linux with squid in a good server with proxy redirection for automatic usage.
 
Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:08 pm

Given my pricey bandwidth upstream, I can see this topic changing to "How so I conserve bandwidth" and "How do I make my service seem fast".

Web cache (squid) is one way. But this is only for httptraffic. Qos is also another important tool (i.e. Give priority to http  and VoIP). Any other 'tricks of the trade' ?
 
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:04 pm

@Arcee

What equipment have you planned to use and is it going to a single AP sector site......
N21roadie,
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:44 pm

I write an answer but it disappear.

Trying to write again:

You need to be very conservative and install a bg one proxy cache for web. It must be faster than going directly to the web

Second, use cache server dns in the same server. Not queries about DNs outside. Redirect the outgoing traffic to 53 to yourself.

Prioritize the VoIP and setup a CIR. the same for the web.

Seconds priority for rest
And very very low priority without CIR,for P2p and streaming.

You can recompensate low profile users with Burts and the heavy users will have in peak hours low speed.

In the night you can give high speed (off peak hours, like 00:00 to 6:00)
 
Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:27 pm

@Arcee

What equipment have you planned to use and is it going to a single AP sector site......

@n21roadie

I was aiming for one AP per sector antenna and depending on the site four (4) sectors at 90 degrees to cover all directions.

I'm considering the RB912UAG-2HPnD and something in the basebox series.

You got a particular suggestion here?
 
lambert
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:11 pm

Given my pricey bandwidth upstream, I can see this topic changing to "How so I conserve bandwidth" and "How do I make my service seem fast".

Web cache (squid) is one way. But this is only for httptraffic. Qos is also another important tool (i.e. Give priority to http  and VoIP). Any other 'tricks of the trade' ?
Just make sure you charge enough to cover your costs. If you cannot charge enough to cover your costs and you have to go to heavy cacheing / QoS, perhaps the business model does not work.
 
Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:36 am

@lambert

Point well taken.
 
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:45 pm


I was aiming for one AP per sector antenna and depending on the site four (4) sectors at 90 degrees to cover all directions.

I'm considering the RB912UAG-2HPnD and something in the basebox series.

You got a particular suggestion here?
More general comments - Are you sure just one site will give 100% coverage to target area(s) as from experience LOS to customers generally require several sites and this raises the outlay and running costs.
N21roadie,
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Arcee
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Re: How much Bandwidth is required? [WISP]

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:29 pm

@n21roadie

No doubt there will be multiple sites.

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