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normis
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Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:18 pm

All Wireless Wire users can now apply for a free upgrade to test the new AP functionality - this way, you will be able to connect more wAP60G units to the upgraded AP device and test a multi-point setup with a simple license upgrade. So if you have two WW kits, you can make one of the units your AP, and connect the other 3 devices to it as clients.

We will provide single units and AP units separately very soon, but until the new devices are available, you can write to support@mikrotik.com with your supout.rif file, serial number, SoftID and mikrotik.com account login name, and we will send you an upgraded license so you can test the AP functionality.

Don't miss the opportunity while the offer lasts.
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:31 pm

Damned, we already bought 4 level 4 licences :)
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:01 pm

Funny. But many people here maybe do not know that this is not related to license level. At least so far.
It is really nice from mikrotik that they released such option for public. Even it is more or less in the early testing phase obviously.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:43 am

Great news! Sent my requests off today!
"If it ain't broke, you're not tryin"
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:01 pm

I have 4 total units and ready to put them through the paces. I sent off my request this morning, how long is the turn around on this?
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:40 am

I got mine back next business day.
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:41 am

excellent, I look forward to it.

I may try to do 4-to-1 multi-point. I have the application to test it, just need to get my hands on 1 more unit.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:43 pm

I Need 4 level 2 licences
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:50 pm

I Need 4 level 2 licences
You need to follow normis instructions in post #1
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:05 am

@Normis, I have been promoting Mikrotik for years on my website in Belgium.
Why can not you give a reward.
I have to make all my Mikrotik purchases myself to demonstrate on my website.
Why do not you do anything for it?
This is very disappointing

regards
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:15 am

@Normis, I have been promoting Mikrotik for years on my website in Belgium.
Why can not you give a reward.
I have to make all my Mikrotik purchases myself to demonstrate on my website.
Why do not you do anything for it?
This is very disappointing

regards
Is this related to this topic? MikroTik doesn't sell or deliver anything directly. We don't have a shop here. You should try to deal with local distributors. Thank you for the effort and enthusiasm!
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:12 am

Range is useless except for just "fun" and testing around indoors or across the street. When is the WISP gear coming out? I remember seeing LAH 60Ghz models advertised almost a year ago at the Denver MUM, is there any ETA on when those will be available, or did they scrap it? Also would be nice to see a large outdoor beamforming AP sector with high gain antenna, then use the LAH-60 CPE's (hopefully a high power version) for customers and at LEAST get us 1 mile or 1.5 mile range, to make it somewhat useable in those rare cases where we have customers so close to the tower they can hit it within a mile.

Does anyone know if the KP reflector dishes for Mikrotik would work???
https://www.kpperformance.com/mikrotik- ... ector-dish
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 am

The Auranet business-grade 11ac Wi-Fi solution is engineered to handle heavy multi-user usage in large areas without encountering the same stability issues found with standard routers and access points purposed for home use. It’s the perfect fit for motels, salons, chain-stores, schools, and restaurants.
What does this have to do with the topic?
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:47 am

Range is useless except for just "fun" and testing around indoors or across the street. When is the WISP gear coming out? I remember seeing LAH 60Ghz models advertised almost a year ago at the Denver MUM, is there any ETA on when those will be available, or did they scrap it? Also would be nice to see a large outdoor beamforming AP sector with high gain antenna, then use the LAH-60 CPE's (hopefully a high power version) for customers and at LEAST get us 1 mile or 1.5 mile range, to make it somewhat useable in those rare cases where we have customers so close to the tower they can hit it within a mile.
So because your customers are all at least a mile away this classes the present 60Ghz units as 'useless fun'?
I use Mimosa for 50 to 500 meter distances and deliver up to 250Mbps in a crowded 5Ghz band. Highly profesional network!

Now MT has their 60Ghz solution so we are planning to build a back to back 60Ghz back bone infrastructure to deliver even more speed to our clients. We are having cells where in a 100 meters range 50 or more household can be found........
With the price policy of MT this is an absolute breakthrough in massive 60Ghz deployment. You can now build a wireless local backbone network by building-hopping with 1Gb symmetric capacity for a price even the heaviest subsidised fibre can't compete. I would classify that as "highly useful fun."
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:44 pm

Is this promotion over? I've sent a couple of requests in the last week and haven't gotten a response. Usually we get them in less than 24 hours.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:02 pm

50 households within range of 100 meters is a field for wires, not for radios.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:32 am

50 households within range of 100 meters is a field for wires, not for radios.
So, who is going to deploy those wires? Need permission, need the wires, need switches and modems. Usually need trenches to dig and repair cloaked tubes.
A wire (fiber) needs a full backbone infrastructure into each street. You can't deploy a full structure for a handful or only one client
Wireless is a fraction of the cost and yes, with some AP's on roofs of private houses we can just install client units in a fraction of the time against probably halve the costs.

Even with all the grants taken in account most fiber companies need to earn back their massive investments in networks roll outs. Networks that are at times are only used partially.
Existing Wifi operators like us (I mean, we already exist 15 years. In those days fiber was hardly any option..) still have to survive.

Many small operators like us that are probably the base of Mikrotik's existence just aren't big enough to get their hands on grants or have the resources to get a fiber network deployed. So what do you wan't us to do? Just to give up and quit? If we all would think like that Mikrotik would soon loose a lot of customers of their devices.....

We just have to update our networks over and over again to service a service level better then the fiber competition at lower prices.
If they lower their prices, we can lower as well. If they lower their price, they talk about millions since they have one nationwide price policy. If we lower our price we can adjust to the needs. And if we'd loose some money due a lowering of prices, we just have to see we get a handful new clients and we are even again...As small private companies you have to play smart to keep the 'big' wolves out of your backyard.

Sorry Jarda, but you obviously have no idea what kind of internet operators Mikrotik can count as their customer base. The 'big' internet boys don't work with Mikrotik. They go for the big brand names like Cisco etc. Maybe an occasional Mikrotik router. WE on the other hand spend thousands on Mikrotik's devices. So you'd better think with them... not against them....
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:45 am

I've been SUPER-AMPED about this, as we have come so close many times to pulling the trigger on IngiteNet 60Ghz PtMP. However, I just don't think these little MikroTik 60Ghz units are going to cut it! They're SO small, and the distance is no longer than what you can run with Cat5e. Finally some good news on the larger LH-60 dishes, BUT those are only for PtP... I suppose you could throw one of these small AP's on a tower and use the PtP dishes, but still, its not NEAR as good as the IgniteNet PtMP beamforming OMNI AP.

Can anyone confirm if Mikrotik has any plans on making bigger higher-gain PtMP AP's? Then, that would be PERFECT to use the LH-60's with, and actually get 1/2 mile or more out of them without fade issues. I can only wait so much longer, but from the looks of it, if your a WISP and wanting to use whats available now, you'll be having to put them on every power pole. 100 meters = ~300ft, think of the expense in micropops you'd have to put up just in order to cover a few homes. Man...
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:45 am

I've been SUPER-AMPED about this, as we have come so close many times to pulling the trigger on IngiteNet 60Ghz PtMP. However, I just don't think these little MikroTik 60Ghz units are going to cut it! They're SO small, and the distance is no longer than what you can run with Cat5e. Finally some good news on the larger LH-60 dishes, BUT those are only for PtP... I suppose you could throw one of these small AP's on a tower and use the PtP dishes, but still, its not NEAR as good as the IgniteNet PtMP beamforming OMNI AP.
The LH-60 can be no doubt used on the small AP's. As long as the signals reaches both sides with enough strength. The units themselves have no idea what the size of their antenna is....... (I don't know if this rule goes unlimited. Would a 100 Watt 60Ghz radio paired with a 20 meter dia dish reach tenths of kilometers? Don't think so to be honest)

Comparing IgniteNet with Mikrotik is comparing nikkels with diamonds. We are not talking the looks now, we talk cash...

One new 10G triple play Omni would cost 1000€ (estimate, they don't sell them in Europe yet, at least I can't find prices)
One 60º Mikrotik wAP 60G AP cost 85€. For a full sectorn you need 6, so that makes 510€

Each ML client cost 421€ or 476€ depending on the small versus bigger model. Say you want to serve 20 clients on your ML AP tower. 1000 + (20 x 421) = 9.420€
Each MT client cost I'll guess (not for sale as such yet) 85€. 20 of these would therefore cost 1700. + the cost of the 6 AP's that would make 2210€ for the same 20 clients.

That is a factor 4! IgniteNet is thus 4 times more expensive!

What are the differences in usage? Is it worth the extra?

1. The real life distance reach of the ML 19dbi versions is hardly any better then the Mikrotik units. Only with the more expensive 35dBi models you get 2 to 3 times the range. But that is also 55€ extra per client! We have 4 ML backhaul links and after many, many hours of aligning and testing the range is not by far as what is promised.
2. Cells bigger then 200-300 meters are not very interesting anyway if you have regular rain. Anything above that range goes down in any serious rain. So the advance of the bigger cells with ML is not that much.
3. The ML series have 5Ghz backup to overcome for instance point 2. Well:
a. Did we not move to 60Ghz to stay out of the 5ghz interference issues? So if 60Ghz drops in bad weather we go back to a situation we know already doesn't work so good...?
b. The fallback 5Ghz radio's are always 'on'. So if the goal in going to 60Ghz was to free some 5Ghz spectrum for your other stuff... you haven't done anything....
c. The standard 5Ghz channels are 802.11 protocol only. Without any proper RTS/CTS to be configured probably not working very well in noisy environment or with many 'hidden nodes' in your network.
d. The build in small 5Ghz gain antennas produce weak signals, and thus S/N ratio's are low. We don't even use it as backup for the PtP links. We'd use Mikrotik and Jirious to have a spare backhaul link if needed.)
e. For the price difference between a ML setup with build-in 5Ghz failover you can easy buy good antenna and some Netmetal to do that same job, but better..... (nstream/NV2, more power, better antenna, ROS)

I am one of the first buyers in Europe of ML products because we were desperate to get out of the full 5Ghz spectrum for our short backhauls. Almost 2 years ago we bought in total 4 links and we even have been given one of the new 2.5G links later on.
After endless problems that couldn't be solved by ML in new fws and their assistance in the end the original 8 units purchased some 2 years ago where all RMA'd on request of them since they then acknowledged all my units had hardware issues.....
(And then their supplier in Spain refused me the costs or shipping back so that was another setback. Since I am not a regular shipper it cost me 500€ to send them all back to them! :shock:
ML made me then a dearly appreciated gesture in sending one of the first new ML2.5-60-35 links (two devices) to me to try. It took us some time to find a use for them but then we tried them we found one out of the box not to work...... that has to be replaced.yet again....pffff

We still have issues on several of our ML backhaul links. The new fw made signals better (weird, that software can make the signals better?) and the links seems to be more persistent.
But one of the link running the new fw was so bad that now they wanted us to send these units back for RMA!
So all in all, although ML helpes us out and have been very kind to us we are not that happy with their product line as we would expected in the beginning. They costed us a lot of money, a lot of work and grieve and irritation and thus time.....

Since two months I purchased now 10 units of the Mikrotik 60Ghz units. The work out of the box, held in the hand at 150 meters distance bandwidth test 1.8Gb aggregated. 5 mins setup..... (The time it take to walk 150 meters and hook your laptop up and battery to the unit.)
We have now some links running 80 to 145 meters with these tiny small units and we are over the top. They work perfect. Simple (ROS!) and reliable.

The ML 10G Tri-band Omni though appealed to me. With its capacity and the 3 bands it can perform several functions at the same time as we now need several units for. (Backhauls, P2MP, 2,4Ghz hotspot)

Anyway, for 1000€ (which in itself is a very good price for such a multi tasking unit) you still need to work with the expensive client units. If you need to compete with fiber that's not an advantage.

Actually, in putting this successful 60Ghz product lne in the market by MT I hope other 60Ghz providers are forced to drop their prices considerably.
And if they then also make a stable product as MT they might see me again as buyer. But for the moment I hold my money in my pocket and rather spend it on MT stuff....
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Mon May 07, 2018 8:13 pm

Wooa! Excellent news. Though I Need 4 level 2 licences.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Mon May 07, 2018 9:51 pm

I've been SUPER-AMPED about this, as we have come so close many times to pulling the trigger on IngiteNet 60Ghz PtMP. However, I just don't think these little MikroTik 60Ghz units are going to cut it! They're SO small, and the distance is no longer than what you can run with Cat5e. Finally some good news on the larger LH-60 dishes, BUT those are only for PtP... I suppose you could throw one of these small AP's on a tower and use the PtP dishes, but still, its not NEAR as good as the IgniteNet PtMP beamforming OMNI AP.
The LH-60 can be no doubt used on the small AP's. As long as the signals reaches both sides with enough strength. The units themselves have no idea what the size of their antenna is....... (I don't know if this rule goes unlimited. Would a 100 Watt 60Ghz radio paired with a 20 meter dia dish reach tenths of kilometers? Don't think so to be honest)

Comparing IgniteNet with Mikrotik is comparing nikkels with diamonds. We are not talking the looks now, we talk cash...

One new 10G triple play Omni would cost 1000€ (estimate, they don't sell them in Europe yet, at least I can't find prices)
One 60º Mikrotik wAP 60G AP cost 85€. For a full sectorn you need 6, so that makes 510€

Each ML client cost 421€ or 476€ depending on the small versus bigger model. Say you want to serve 20 clients on your ML AP tower. 1000 + (20 x 421) = 9.420€
Each MT client cost I'll guess (not for sale as such yet) 85€. 20 of these would therefore cost 1700. + the cost of the 6 AP's that would make 2210€ for the same 20 clients.

That is a factor 4! IgniteNet is thus 4 times more expensive!

What are the differences in usage? Is it worth the extra?

1. The real life distance reach of the ML 19dbi versions is hardly any better then the Mikrotik units. Only with the more expensive 35dBi models you get 2 to 3 times the range. But that is also 55€ extra per client! We have 4 ML backhaul links and after many, many hours of aligning and testing the range is not by far as what is promised.
2. Cells bigger then 200-300 meters are not very interesting anyway if you have regular rain. Anything above that range goes down in any serious rain. So the advance of the bigger cells with ML is not that much.
3. The ML series have 5Ghz backup to overcome for instance point 2. Well:
a. Did we not move to 60Ghz to stay out of the 5ghz interference issues? So if 60Ghz drops in bad weather we go back to a situation we know already doesn't work so good...?
b. The fallback 5Ghz radio's are always 'on'. So if the goal in going to 60Ghz was to free some 5Ghz spectrum for your other stuff... you haven't done anything....
c. The standard 5Ghz channels are 802.11 protocol only. Without any proper RTS/CTS to be configured probably not working very well in noisy environment or with many 'hidden nodes' in your network.
d. The build in small 5Ghz gain antennas produce weak signals, and thus S/N ratio's are low. We don't even use it as backup for the PtP links. We'd use Mikrotik and Jirious to have a spare backhaul link if needed.)
e. For the price difference between a ML setup with build-in 5Ghz failover you can easy buy good antenna and some Netmetal to do that same job, but better..... (nstream/NV2, more power, better antenna, ROS)

I am one of the first buyers in Europe of ML products because we were desperate to get out of the full 5Ghz spectrum for our short backhauls. Almost 2 years ago we bought in total 4 links and we even have been given one of the new 2.5G links later on.
After endless problems that couldn't be solved by ML in new fws and their assistance in the end the original 8 units purchased some 2 years ago where all RMA'd on request of them since they then acknowledged all my units had hardware issues.....
(And then their supplier in Spain refused me the costs or shipping back so that was another setback. Since I am not a regular shipper it cost me 500€ to send them all back to them! :shock:
ML made me then a dearly appreciated gesture in sending one of the first new ML2.5-60-35 links (two devices) to me to try. It took us some time to find a use for them but then we tried them we found one out of the box not to work...... that has to be replaced.yet again....pffff

We still have issues on several of our ML backhaul links. The new fw made signals better (weird, that software can make the signals better?) and the links seems to be more persistent.
But one of the link running the new fw was so bad that now they wanted us to send these units back for RMA!
So all in all, although ML helpes us out and have been very kind to us we are not that happy with their product line as we would expected in the beginning. They costed us a lot of money, a lot of work and grieve and irritation and thus time.....

Since two months I purchased now 10 units of the Mikrotik 60Ghz units. The work out of the box, held in the hand at 150 meters distance bandwidth test 1.8Gb aggregated. 5 mins setup..... (The time it take to walk 150 meters and hook your laptop up and battery to the unit.)
We have now some links running 80 to 145 meters with these tiny small units and we are over the top. They work perfect. Simple (ROS!) and reliable.

The ML 10G Tri-band Omni though appealed to me. With its capacity and the 3 bands it can perform several functions at the same time as we now need several units for. (Backhauls, P2MP, 2,4Ghz hotspot)

Anyway, for 1000€ (which in itself is a very good price for such a multi tasking unit) you still need to work with the expensive client units. If you need to compete with fiber that's not an advantage.

Actually, in putting this successful 60Ghz product lne in the market by MT I hope other 60Ghz providers are forced to drop their prices considerably.
And if they then also make a stable product as MT they might see me again as buyer. But for the moment I hold my money in my pocket and rather spend it on MT stuff....
We also have some ML running and see the same problems. The design with this usb dongle inside seems to be not that well engineered. I wonder how the antenna Array in the LHG compares. At least it may be much easier to align. I do not have a LHG. Looking at the pictures it seems to be a cheap design, too.
 
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Re: Wireless Wire free Multi-point upgrade for AP feature

Thu May 10, 2018 3:09 pm

As of the end of the next week (May 18th) we will stop to give out free license upgrade for Wireless Wire units.

Don't miss the opportunity while the offer lasts and send in to support@mikrotik.com at least three supout files from different Wireless Wire devices and point out which router you would like to use as an AP.

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