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sovking
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi normis,
when this product, RBwAPG-60ad kit, will be available in quantity at distributors or online shops ?
We would try to get some kit to test it as soon as possiple.

Thanks.
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:03 pm

Please contact your favourite distributor and place an order, they will be able to allocate a unit as soon as they receive their stock. They are already placing orders now.
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sovking
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:27 pm

I will contact my distributor immediately. Some other questions for normis.

This RBwAPG-60ad kit, is advertized as: "Wireless Wire... This amazing kit replaces your Gigabit ethernet cable..."
So would think that because it replaces a gigabit cable, it have to do 1Gbps between Eth-Wireless-Wireless-Eth as a whole, and the cpu of each unit has to be capable of move ethernet frames between ethernet interface and wireless link at Gbps speed. And it is full trasparent with regard of every protocol I can put on that Ethernet cable, e.g. LACP.
So a couple of questions:
  1. the advertized 1 Gbps full duplex is measured between the two wireless interfaces or is measured with a serius analyzer between the two Ethernet interfaces, e.g. as the kit is considered a single Device Under Test ? Have you measured the bit error rate over the kit ? (even in ideal conditions, with units placed optimally).
  2. It's the kit full L2 transparent ?
  3. You talk about the maximum distance, but what is the minumum distance between two units of one kit ? (0.5m ? 1m ? 10 m ? this is important because cable can be short but however they need to be replaced)
Thanks
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:20 am

@normis can RBwAPG-60ad be used in multipoint connections?Or its limited to single AP?
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:07 am

Sovking:

1. The CPU is more than capable. Without the 1Gbit port limitation, speed would be greater. The tests are done over the link, not from wireless-to-wireless.
2. Yes
3. You can turn them away from each other to reduce the signal, but there is actually no minimum.

Ivicsk:

Yes, it will come later through an upgrade, but the chip is capable to do this.
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:26 am

In Europe, the EIRP is the only value that needs to be known, and this device does not exceed 40dB maximum EIRP, therefore it is valid for use in the EU and has all the FCC/CE certifications.
Is it really legal to use it in all countries in Europe ? According to the "Decision 2006/771/EC on harmonisation of the radio spectrum for use by short-range devices" fixed outdoor installations are excluded (page 18 - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 52&from=EN).
Pls provide us link to the CE certification !
Thank you.
Haward
To Normis: The CE certification is done according to CE ETSI 302 567 or ETSI 300 550 ? For fixed outdoor installations it must be according to ETSI 300 550 ...
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 am

We have done certification to ETSI 302 567 (up to 40dB EIRP).

ETSI 300 550 allows up to 20dB EIRP.
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Haward
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:32 am

RBwAPG-60ad is unfortunately illegal for outdoor fixed links in the EU ... for me useless device ....
 
sovking
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:30 pm

1. The CPU is more than capable. Without the 1Gbit port limitation, speed would be greater. The tests are done over the link, not from wireless-to-wireless.
Thanks normis, that's sounds good.

Have you measure the bit error rate over this link at near 1Gbps speed ? What ber we should expect in ideal conditions (one device in front of the other) ?
Is it possible to reduce tx power like other Mikrotik hardware ? (which range ? 1dBm to 40dBm) ?

@harward: if this device let you to manage tx power you can always tune it to run legally. The maxium EIRP change with countries and usage: e.g. in trasportation systems ETSI allowed icreased tx power on some frequencies: around 5.8 GHz is allowed to transimit until 8W (~39dBm).
Regarding the 60 GHz, because this device i certified according ETSI 302 567 it can (legally where ETSI rules):
Indoor only: 40 dBm (what normis has already written)
Indoor and Outdoor: 25 dBm
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:42 pm

@normis
Hi
is the release of the switch with all port poe out delayed ?
 
Haward
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:24 pm

To Sovking: You are probably wrong. If certified according to ETSI 302 567 as wideband data transmission device, fixed outdoor installations are excluded (see page 18 - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 52&from=EN). If certified according to ETSI 300 550 as non-specific short-range device, no limitation for outdoor usage.

To Normis: Is re-certification according to ETSI 300 550 as non-specific short-range device possible ? What would be maximal distance (speed 1 Gbit full-duplex) with max. 20dB EIRP ?
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:04 pm

IgniteNet MetroLinq 60-35-1 is a 60Ghz PTP with a 42dBi antenna with a max range of 1.5 km. Would be nice if Mikrotik made a similar product that was more focused so we could get a bit better range. They also have an integrated 5Ghz backup in case of bad weather.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:26 am

I have a few questions about the RBwAPG-60ad. How narrow is the beamwidth and how well does it work with interference? How close can units (different links) be without interfering with each other?

Thanks
Jonathan
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:37 am

Hi Normis,

I may have missed it, but is it possible at all if the RBwAPG-60ad kit can be simply deployed without any further configuration on a non-MikroTik router?

For example, plugging one unit to a LAN port of any router, then link wirelessly with the remaining unit as IF a continuous Ethernet cable is plugged into that LAN port instead.

If it is, I believe, MikroTik has a potential winning product. Kinda an 'alternative Gigabit Ethernet cable'.

Thank you.
 
syadnom
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:54 am

lots of people didn't read all the posts :/

@normis, can you share when the LHG60 will be released? Do you have specs on it's range? Maybe a chart of range vs throughput and MSRP?

60Ghz is great. It's extremely predictable. unlike 5Ghz which can feel a bit like black magic and only season magicians can make accurate predictions, 60Ghz really is ( can you see it? is it in range? then here are the numbers ______ ), and zero interference.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:10 am

Hi Normis,

I may have missed it, but is it possible at all if the RBwAPG-60ad kit can be simply deployed without any further configuration on a non-MikroTik router?

For example, plugging one unit to a LAN port of any router, then link wirelessly with the remaining unit as IF a continuous Ethernet cable is plugged into that LAN port instead.

If it is, I believe, MikroTik has a potential winning product. Kinda an 'alternative Gigabit Ethernet cable'.

Thank you.
Yes! You just remove a gigabit cable, plug these devices in place, do not even configure them - they will link automatically. Just point them roughly at one another and continue using your network just like before, just without that cable.
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:11 am

lots of people didn't read all the posts :/

@normis, can you share when the LHG60 will be released? Do you have specs on it's range? Maybe a chart of range vs throughput and MSRP?

60Ghz is great. It's extremely predictable. unlike 5Ghz which can feel a bit like black magic and only season magicians can make accurate predictions, 60Ghz really is ( can you see it? is it in range? then here are the numbers ______ ), and zero interference.
Currently no information. This is the wAP60G announcement newsletter. You will have to wait until one of the future announcement newsletters.
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Haward
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

To Sovking: You are probably wrong. If certified according to ETSI 302 567 as wideband data transmission device, fixed outdoor installations are excluded (see page 18 - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 52&from=EN). If certified according to ETSI 300 550 as non-specific short-range device, no limitation for outdoor usage.

To Normis: Is re-certification according to ETSI 300 550 as non-specific short-range device possible ? What would be maximal distance (speed 1 Gbit full-duplex) with max. 20dB EIRP ?
To Normis: Does Mikrotik plan re-certification to ETSI 300 550 ? For me fixed outdoor usage is essential ! Do you plan similar device for 80GHz band ?
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:18 pm

Wireless Wire v2 is gonna use gamma rays for extra broadband needs. :D
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:38 am

Please contact your favourite distributor and place an order, they will be able to allocate a unit as soon as they receive their stock. They are already placing orders now.
Will/are they certified for Australia?
 
marekm
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:47 pm

Questions about the 60 GHz product:
- why only 3, not 4 channels as in the IgniteNet product - is it a regulatory or hardware limitation?
- any chance it will support channels narrower than 2 GHz (IgniteNet promised 500MHz "in future hardware revision")?
- what is the antenna beamwidth, would it work to mount it in focus of a satellite dish "LDF 60'?
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:38 pm

Will/are they certified for Australia?
The product has FCC/CE/IC certification.
why only 3, not 4 channels
Chipset limitation.
any chance it will support channels narrower than 2 GHz
It will not pass certification anymore. Regulatory limitation.
- what is the antenna beam-width, would it work to mount it in focus of a satellite dish "LDF 60'?
You mean to potentially increase range? It most likely would work with a dish, although no guarantees.
Theoretically you could say beamwidth is 60 degrees, but since this is a beamforming antenna, it does not really apply. The phase array beamforming antenna will adapt as needed.
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:12 am

Metrolinq 2.5 models have 42dBi antennas and run 2.5 Gbps at up to a 1 mile distance.

I would be interested to see Mikrotik offer a model that has narrow beam high gain antennas. No doubt would be incredible...
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:58 am

Is the outdoor restriction for fixed installations valid only in Europe ? (In the USA no restriction ?)
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:29 pm

just to be sure (i couldn't find anything specific about this) - this thing is water-resistant enough for outdoor use? like lets say an stx
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:29 am

It's the same casing as a wAP / wAP AC / wAP R - should be fairly weatherproof :)
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:16 am

Is the outdoor restriction for fixed installations valid only in Europe ? (In the USA no restriction ?)
There are no restrictions in the USA or other regions. Only a few countries in the EU have stricter rules.
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:47 pm

..[CUT].. Only a few countries in the EU have stricter rules.
Please normis, could you be more specific ? I'm in EU/Italy and this information would be usefull (also for other EU citizens).
Thank you.
 
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:12 pm

I suggest checking with your local authorities. There are new laws coming soon, some countries have already implemented them. For example check the left map on page 11:
http://www.etsi.org/images/files/ETSIWh ... 150629.pdf
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:35 pm

..[CUT].. Only a few countries in the EU have stricter rules.
Please normis, could you be more specific ? I'm in EU/Italy and this information would be usefull (also for other EU citizens).
Thank you.
You need to study your legislation (In Italy). For example, in Czech Republic for 60Ghz band - fixed installations are not allowed
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:47 pm

I suggest checking with your local authorities. There are new laws coming soon, some countries have already implemented them. For example check the left map on page 11:
http://www.etsi.org/images/files/ETSIWh ... 150629.pdf
Ok, thank you.
You need to study your legislation (In Italy). For example, in Czech Republic for 60Ghz band - fixed installations are not allowed
You are absolutely right, I'm quite a newbie in outdoor wireless stuff. We have another problem here: in Italy it's not that easy to undestand what you can really do (overcomplicated/obscure legislation, information sources lacks).
Anyway ..thank you.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:33 am

I'm curious, does this work on 360 meters distance?
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:50 am

I'm curious, does this work on 360 meters distance?
probably not, and even if it works it will poorly perform (fraction of the nominal speed) and it will be unreliable IMHO
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:34 pm

That's just a general thing. It's the same way in the US.

You've got a bozo that speaks legal terms trying to talk tech, phrasing regulations for someone that speaks tech and it all ends in a bundle of mess that no one can understand.

I suggest checking with your local authorities. There are new laws coming soon, some countries have already implemented them. For example check the left map on page 11:
http://www.etsi.org/images/files/ETSIWh ... 150629.pdf
Ok, thank you.
You need to study your legislation (In Italy). For example, in Czech Republic for 60Ghz band - fixed installations are not allowed
You are absolutely right, I'm quite a newbie in outdoor wireless stuff. We have another problem here: in Italy it's not that easy to undestand what you can really do (overcomplicated/obscure legislation, information sources lacks).
Anyway ..thank you.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:00 am

Finding stock of these seems to be nearly impossible - my distributors all say late december! I can't really complain though since I was complaining about the lack of official release.

Is there something wrong there? With the device emblazoned across the top of the forums I'd have expected more stock to be available/sooner.

On another note - are we able to get our hands on some detailed RF specs for these devices? I need to check and see how it compares with ACMA (australian FCC-equiv) rules & if it's acceptable under the Radiocommunications (Low Interference Potential Devices) Class Licence 2015 regs - specifically <20mW conducted power if used outdoors, <43dBm EIRP if used indoors, and the power density figures.

I suspect it meets the requirements for indoor use - but I'm not clear on the device's conducted power for outdoor use. Link to screenshot of the relevant bit here
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:36 am

Spain just published the most recent frequency allocation map and, at least for now, fixed outdoor installations are explicitly excluded. (UN-164).

http://www.minetad.gob.es/telecomunicac ... 17_vf2.pdf

They have followed the ETSI EN 302 567 standard which explicitly says "Equipment in this frequency range intended for outdoor Fixed Local Area Network Extension (FLANE) or Fixed Point-to-Point applications are not in the scope of the present document."

There is a provision for fixed point-to-point links on the same band but, as of today, those links are licensed. (UN-150)

Probably this will change, hopefully soon.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:50 am

Wow some awesome new products :)

The S+RJ10 SFP module is pretty interesting for the price.I remember buying a ProLabs one , for about 10 times the price last year.
Indeed!!! Just to be sure - MT didn't you forget to add one digit ("1", "2" or even "3") in front of S+RJ10 "$65" price??? I got pair 10G-only modules for almost $700 few months ago, and these are 6-speed...
Would the new S+RJ10 establish 10Gbps connection over 50 meters cat5e cable? My cables are in walls of my home and can not be upgraded.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:02 am

Would the new S+RJ10 establish 10Gbps connection over 50 meters cat5e cable? My cables are in walls of my home and can not be upgraded.
According to the spec. sheet it probably will not work.
https://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/sfp_s ... 151033.pdf
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:04 pm

Would the new S+RJ10 establish 10Gbps connection over 50 meters cat5e cable? My cables are in walls of my home and can not be upgraded.
According to the spec. sheet it probably will not work.
https://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/sfp_s ... 151033.pdf
Thank you.

Looks like the 5Gbps will work. I'm currently using LAG with 5 cables, and it could save 4 cables.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:10 pm

W60G
there is no option to adjust txpower? On shortlink we can't get higher than MCS4.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:44 pm

W60G
there is no option to adjust txpower? On shortlink we can't get higher than MCS4.
How short link? W60G is up to 100m. (Without reserve up to 130m)
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:00 pm

W60G
there is no option to adjust txpower? On shortlink we can't get higher than MCS4.
How short link? W60G is up to 100m. (Without reserve up to 130m)
25m
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:02 pm

Is there anything blocking line of sight?
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Hi. Sory bad english.
This day install wap60 link 1.1 km. Distance. Wap60 mount 45 cm parabolic dish antenna. My signal min. 75 maks. 85 but not connected. Status connect and notconnect connect and notconnect. What problem. ? Wap60 software distance limitation or ack timing problem ?
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:44 am

Hi. Sory bad english.
This day install wap60 link 1.1 km. Distance. Wap60 mount 45 cm parabolic dish antenna. My signal min. 75 maks. 85 but not connected. Status connect and notconnect connect and notconnect. What problem. ? Wap60 software distance limitation or ack timing problem ?
The WAP60 is meant for 100m max. How did you connect it to a dish?
There is another model coming out next year built into a dish, but personally I wouldn't really recommend it for 1.1Km. Rather look at 80Ghz equipment, or 24Ghz.
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:50 pm

Normis: we have bought a couple of RBwAPG-60ad.
The interface of this products is the same of other MikroTik products (both winbox and webfig), but the wireless interface lack of Tx power level. That seems strange.
We think it could be useful to use only the needed power for the specific use case.
That is a design choice, or chipset limitation, or whatother else ?

If there is no specific limitation, we could hope to have that "knob", in next 6.xx RouterOS release ?

Thanks
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:08 am

Good to see some new products !

Would like to know if any of below are in the pipeline :
- CAP AC
- MU- MIMO AP


Thank you !
 
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:07 pm

Would like to know if any of below are in the pipeline :
- CAP AC
Yes
http://certid.org/document/3602640
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normis
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:04 am

Normis: we have bought a couple of RBwAPG-60ad.
The interface of this products is the same of other MikroTik products (both winbox and webfig), but the wireless interface lack of Tx power level. That seems strange.
We think it could be useful to use only the needed power for the specific use case.
That is a design choice, or chipset limitation, or whatother else ?

If there is no specific limitation, we could hope to have that "knob", in next 6.xx RouterOS release ?

Thanks
The devices are designed and advertised for a specific purpose, like it says on the box, they work at Gigabit speeds over 100m long distances.
The system here is not 802.11ac, the antenna and chip are completely different. All the underlying drivers are different too.
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Re: Newsletter 78 with 1GBPS WIRELESS PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:37 pm

Just today tested for 120 metres:
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