Community discussions

 
mikruser
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:28 pm

RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:48 pm

Hello,

http://routerboard.com/RB3011UiAS-RM

Could you provide official information about the IPsec performance?
do not ask me why it is necessary.
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:51 pm

im interested in ipsec topic too
 
blinderix
newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:41 pm

im interested in ipsec topic too
+1
 
Fraction
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:42 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:57 am

Looks very promising device, althought I'm more waiting the desktop version, hopefully its coming soon too..

Few questions:
-ipsec performance (hw crypto?)
-NAND size
-MetaROUTER ability
-Lane between cpu & switch chips

Thank you in advance.
 
User avatar
IPANetEngineer
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:46 am
Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:47 am

im interested in ipsec topic too
As soon as I get a couple of them for our lab, i'll do an IPSEC test until the magic blue smoke comes put and let you know where the breaking point is.

Can't wait to get my hands on some :-)
Global - MikroTik Support & Consulting - English | Francais | Español | Portuguese +1 855-645-7684
https://iparchitechs.com/services/mikro ... l-support/ mikrotiksupport@iparchitechs.com
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:26 pm

Looks very promising device, althought I'm more waiting the desktop version, hopefully its coming soon too..

-Lane between cpu & switch chips

Thank you in advance.
Image
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:11 pm

Looks very nice. Also the lane between the switches to be able to make a big switch or offload one of the main lines to cpu if necessary would be awesome.
 
wojtekCDR
just joined
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:16 pm

RB3011 inside :o

Image
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re:

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:20 pm

Looks very nice. Also the lane between the switches to be able to make a big switch or offload one of the main lines to cpu if necessary would be awesome.

according to this

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7526/qual ... nd-ipq8062

the ipq8064 have 10g of available bandwidth, maybe the traffic between switches will not be too tasking, maybe a bypass feature can help.

well see
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:25 pm

... And from the picture it seems that the psu could fit in the box. Would be useful too.
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:34 pm

looking the performance comparison I see the numbers of rb3011 behind the expected for that cpu, for example its "only" 2.5x the hEX performance when the cpu performance its at least 4.0x

i think the performance have much room for improvement, because its a new cpu architecture and new vendor specific functionalities
 
rzirzi
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:20 pm

Tomorrow we will have it:)
Whre could we download newest version ROS for that board (RB3011)??
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:24 pm

Tomorrow we will have it:)
Whre could we download newest version ROS for that board (RB3011)??

good question i dont see it on download page :lol:

when you have the device do a request to support
 
User avatar
honzam
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2287
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:06 pm

Tomorrow we will have it:)
Whre could we download newest version ROS for that board (RB3011)??
I think that every day will be added on download page. Hold on :)
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
rzirzi
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:37 pm

When will be available non-rackmount (desktop?) case version of RB3011 ??
 
pchott
newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:15 am
Location: Holzkirchen, Germany

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:44 pm

I'm also interested in desktop version of RB3011 basic model without SFP? That would than we code RB311iL-IN?
 
User avatar
leemans
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:55 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:51 pm

MT,

I'm missing this on the RB3011:

Memory card type 1 x M.2 SDD (which can be used as bootable drive).

Kind regards,
Patrick
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:38 pm

MT,

I'm missing this on the RB3011:

Memory card type 1 x M.2 SDD (which can be used as bootable drive).

Kind regards,
Patrick

i think the only mikrotik with this feature is ccr1072, but dont know if can be booted from m2
 
User avatar
leemans
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:55 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:41 pm

MT,

I'm missing this on the RB3011:

Memory card type 1 x M.2 SDD (which can be used as bootable drive).

Kind regards,
Patrick

i think the only mikrotik with this feature is ccr1072, but dont know if can be booted from m2
Maybe not ... But it better should be.
 
User avatar
doneware
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:11 pm

RB3011 inside :o
nooo, the mPCI-e slot is missing...
#TR0359
 
User avatar
leemans
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:55 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:28 pm

RB3011 inside :o
nooo, the mPCI-e slot is missing...
Yes of course the slot to insert the card.
 
rzirzi
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:58 pm

So, how to download newest stable version for RB3011?
RB3011ROS.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:38 pm

So, how to download newest stable version for RB3011?
RB3011ROS.jpg

send email to support@mikrotik.com

how many nand have your rb3011??
 
rzirzi
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:44 pm

how many nand have your rb3011??
RB3011RESOURCES.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
rzirzi
Member
Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:50 am

I have upgraded my RB3011 to 6.33.1 (it's already available to download - only separate packages), and received EXTRA VERSION: 255.255255 :)
RB3011ROS_VER.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:06 pm

I had 6.99 recently. But this is truly nice too.
 
User avatar
paoloaga
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:52 am
Location: Vaprio d'Agogna (NO) - Italy
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:36 pm

It happens also with about 10% of my dynadish5 units. Sometimes it was enough to turn off then on the unit and reinstall firmware, sometimes I had to netinstall.
 
Brightstar
just joined
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:50 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:26 pm

Just received two, thanks linitx :)

One thing of note, repartition. Doesn't appear to work, has anyone else been able to repartition the RB3011?
 
Brightstar
just joined
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:50 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:45 pm

Just received two RB3011 and struggling to repartition them to have two partitions.

It accepts the commands either via terminal or winbox, reboots fine but after a reboot there is still only one partition.

Anyone else tried repartitioning?
 
mikruser
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:34 pm

any IPsec/AES tunnel benchmark results?
do not ask me why it is necessary.
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:12 pm

any IPsec/AES tunnel benchmark results?
ohh yes very interested im waiting for that too
 
tealc
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:07 pm
Location: Croatia

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:12 am

I just want to add, USERMANAGER is not working on 3011, confirmed by support. :(

Mikrotik has been very polite and gave me L5 license for old-trashed-in-drawer 750G device which I must use for userman until release of ROS 7 (should have UM for 3011 according to support e-mail conversation).

I also get a lots of interface warnings "xxx excessive or late collision, link duplex mismatch?" on eth1 and eth2.
Can't find a pattern.
ethe1 is secondary gw (backup internet connected to ISP 100mbit router), and eth2 is connected to community network (951G with 1Gbps). All devices on the path are auto-negotiate.
Not critical, but makes You be on alert :lol:

Eitherway, rock and stable device, and I managed to effortlessly mount it inside one RB2011-UiAS case which I had in drawers (only needed to cut case front foil a little bit for large USB3 port) 8)
ROS 6.33.1 - my approved stable :D
Private: RB3011 | RB2011 | RB951G | RB750G | Dynadish | 2xSXTac ...
Community: CCR-1009 | RB600 | RB2011 | RB750GL | OMNITIK | SXTac's ...
 
cantanko
newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:53 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:20 pm

Not at all scientific, but I've had IPSec running on the bench between an RB1100AHx2 and an RB3011UiAS-RM using the following IPSec proposal:
auth-algorithms=sha256 enc-algorithms=aes-256-cbc name=strongish pfs-group=modp4096
When traffic is passing with the RB3011 doing most of the encrypting, I see ~77Mbit; with the RB3011 doing most of the decrypting, this increases to ~90MBit...

This was done with a pair of linux boxes directly-connected, one to each RouterBoard, pulling a web page in each direction exclusively, i.e. simplex traffic, no firewall rules and a simple route on each end.

Saturated duplex traffic seemed to hover around ~44Mbit.

This leads me to the fact that, clock for clock, the performance is slightly more efficient than the MIPS in the RB2011, but not massively so... I guess the Qualcomm encryption accelerator hasn't been turned on yet in RouterOS...

RB1100 is still a monster when it comes to IPSec!

Oh, and WinBox still bails when communicating via MAC address when the target RouterBoard's CPU reaches 100%...

As I say, not scientific in any way but it gave me a ballpark to work with :-)
 
adn2377
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:14 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:53 am

Hello,

I would be interested to install this at home as main router, in case its WAN to LAN speed is enough to fully take advantage of my 1 Gbps internet connection.

Could somebody please help me test that using a PPOE WAN connection?

Thanks!
 
mikruser
Member
Member
Topic Author
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:22 am

I've had IPSec running on the bench between an RB1100AHx2 and an RB3011UiAS-RM using the following IPSec proposal

Saturated duplex traffic seemed to hover around ~44Mbit.

I guess the Qualcomm encryption accelerator hasn't been turned on yet in RouterOS...
This is a very low speed... Mikrotik Epic Fail :(


Please test also GRE Tunnel + IPsec Secret.
Maybe RB3011 have problems like CCR:
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84465
do not ask me why it is necessary.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24206
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:20 pm

IPsec accelerator support for RB3011 is still being worked on, the HW acceleration is not yet supported for this model. The CPU is much faster than RB2011 even without HW accelerator.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
User avatar
grusu
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:40 pm

IPsec accelerator support for RB3011 is still being worked on, the HW acceleration is not yet supported for this model. The CPU is much faster than RB2011 even without HW accelerator.
But HW acceleration will be supported in the near future?
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24206
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:02 pm

IPsec accelerator support for RB3011 is still being worked on, the HW acceleration is not yet supported for this model. The CPU is much faster than RB2011 even without HW accelerator.
But HW acceleration will be supported in the near future?
We are working on it, yes.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:27 pm

you shouldn't expect much from IPQ chips in terms of Cipher offoading/acceleration, simply because "there is not enough silicon, used to be useable", but instead - chip Will support FastFath Very Well and will become Faster in many respects with appropriate support from ROS. basic forwarding, firewall, VLAN, endpoint security - anything Will be faster in result).
later IPQ and IPC chips will be beffier and provide more interesting results/throughput, perhaps.
im Especially curious about new ARM chips, based on A35 cores, which WIll become new entry and mid-level Best-Seller among Router SoC, perhaps.
and fat many-core SoC on A72 cores and A53 cores - become cornerstone until Armv9 come.
MIPS32 and MIPS64 SoC will be updated too, but since they had Longer(nearly year to 1.5 year difference with ARM) "time-to market" delay, their products/feats become outdates sometimes even before hit market. same about newer PowePC chips, but new PPC8 chips that replace E6500 cores in FreeScale line for example - can be very iteresting, for example.
 
websun
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:00 pm

I am getting 78 Mb/s with openvpn on this model.
Algorithm is aes 128 cbc

The CPU on the other hand is maxed out, and only core0. Core1 is free like a bird, so somebody needs to look into multithreading

Otherwise the router works very well apart from the vlan to bridge and bond complexity
 
adn2377
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:14 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:07 pm

I would be interested to install this at home as main router, in case its WAN to LAN speed is enough to fully take advantage of my 1 Gbps internet connection.

Could somebody please help me test that using a PPOE WAN connection?
Again sorry to intrude on much more serious discussions like IPSEC performance, but could somebody help me with an answer for the above query?
 
websun
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:51 am

I would be interested to install this at home as main router, in case its WAN to LAN speed is enough to fully take advantage of my 1 Gbps internet connection.

Could somebody please help me test that using a PPOE WAN connection?
Again sorry to intrude on much more serious discussions like IPSEC performance, but could somebody help me with an answer for the above query?
I got ~ 79 Mb/s with OVPN and AES 128.
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:37 pm

I would be interested to install this at home as main router, in case its WAN to LAN speed is enough to fully take advantage of my 1 Gbps internet connection.

Could somebody please help me test that using a PPOE WAN connection?
Again sorry to intrude on much more serious discussions like IPSEC performance, but could somebody help me with an answer for the above query?
you can use built-in BTest features, 3rd-part software(inlcuding commercial packages)or simply check 3011 page about "performance test results"(scroll down to read it).
http://routerboard.com/RB3011UiAS-RM for RM-encased 3011 version, for example.
PPoE had (relatively)low overhead (compared to VPN endpoints)so you can ~ approximate/guess thing bout, but aside that - its strongly depend of Kind and type of traffic you expect to generate over it. generally its better to test before.
if you looke for "short/dumb answer" i think its more like "yes" and achievable throughput over PPoE is relatively close to 1Gbps, but for usual/sane configurations its Had to be lower. so if you aiming to Really stress 1Gbps uplink, perhaps CCR1009 would be better start.
IPQ chips/SoC aimed to SOHO devices and never meant to provide "something outstanding" in terms of performance.
 
adn2377
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:14 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:13 pm

I got ~ 79 Mb/s with OVPN and AES 128.
Thank you for your answer. The absolute value is very low, but I don't have the necessary knowledge to estimate what the difference would be for a simple internet connection (so no VPN) and with no encryption.

When you have the time, do you think you could test it under those conditions?
you can use built-in BTest features, 3rd-part software(inlcuding commercial packages)or simply check 3011 page about "performance test results"(scroll down to read it).
http://routerboard.com/RB3011UiAS-RM for RM-encased 3011 version, for example.
PPoE had (relatively)low overhead (compared to VPN endpoints)so you can ~ approximate/guess thing bout, but aside that - its strongly depend of Kind and type of traffic you expect to generate over it. generally its better to test before.
if you looke for "short/dumb answer" i think its more like "yes" and achievable throughput over PPoE is relatively close to 1Gbps, but for usual/sane configurations its Had to be lower. so if you aiming to Really stress 1Gbps uplink, perhaps CCR1009 would be better start.
IPQ chips/SoC aimed to SOHO devices and never meant to provide "something outstanding" in terms of performance.
Thank you for your answer. I do not own this machine, the question was addressed in order to know whether I will want to buy it or not. I did look on the generic test data present on the RouterBoard page for the 3011, but like you said yourself it is better to test before... I've seen routers that are very powerful in terms of WAN to LAN capability when connected to "normal" WAN connection, but when used with PPOE they give very poor comparative results.

Related to CCR1009, since this will be a home router and the CCR1009 has a cost almost 4 times bigger, it does not qualify for the needed scenario :)
 
XoCinek
just joined
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:46 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:41 pm

Little out of VPN topis but does anyone expriened some strange behaviour in RB3011?

We changed RB750GL for RB3011 for few days. The same input/output traffic, the same vlans, bridges, etc, etc, etc.

And ... on RB3011 we had ... 5-10% packet losses. Nothing changes, than device.

Look at this smokeping
smoke_smoke.klienci.klib_1221203351_10d.png
And the same for last 30 hours.
smoke_smoke.klienci.klib_1221204359_30h.png
Always some little losses, 0.01% - 0.5% - normal in that exact environment. Latency 0,2ms-0,8ms on RB750GL

Than, on Dec 18 changed to RB3011, and ... BIG losses. Nice 0,2ms latency but BIG packet loses.

Traffic about 150 Mbps, cameras only. On RB750GL we get about 90% CPU, on RB3011 about 10%

It is something what could be called ... hickup :-)
Working, working, working few seconds ... hick
Working, working, working few seconds ... hick
Working, working, working few seconds ... hick

Seriously, have no other words to name it :-)

Today we had to change device from RB3011 back to RB750GL :-(

Any ideas?

OH yes, one more info: RouterOS 6.33.3 on both RB750GL and RB3011
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:58 am

IPQ8064/8062 use Krait 300 cores, ie improved, but very tiny and Slooooow ARM-A9 cores, which ought to be replaced by A35 and A53 respectively in low and mid-level SoC for networking very soon.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7526/qual ... nd-ipq8062
my point is: don't expect much from "commodity"-grade, inexpensive chips. they do their job, they don't consume or cost much, but thats all advantages they may had, aside simpler PCB design, perhaps.
 
picacho99
newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:25 pm

Unbeliable.. Mikrotik you don't need a social reputation care manager...
 
mavink
newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:20 pm

Little out of VPN topis but does anyone expriened some strange behaviour in RB3011?


And ... on RB3011 we had ... 5-10% packet losses. Nothing changes, than device.

Any ideas?

OH yes, one more info: RouterOS 6.33.3 on both RB750GL and RB3011
I've been running one with the same RouterOS version for about a week, with peaks over 400 Mbps without packet loss. Have you tried using a different port to rule out a defective ethernet interface?
 
picacho99
newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:02 pm

My updated feedback on RB3011: I'm testing it with a release candidate, the version v6.34rc23
- I removed a bridge on top of my configuration and everything works smoth....
- Now the CPU handling the TCP/IP stream never goes higher than 65% saturating a a fiber connection of 300 Mbits, while online games and IPTV working concurrently in the LAN.
- No more strange messages related to too many broadcast or colissions randomly fired on any ethernet interface (local and uplink side....).
- Before too many packets lost in the LAN side...ping an also IPTV randomly showing artifacts...now everything ok.

Despite I'm really using only one of the two switches...a lot more happy.


Merry Christmas
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:40 pm

its too Young device to torture it with RC firmware. especially in "production" installations, NOT in test-builds/labs.
in my opinion 3 months is mandatory to see toolchain matured enough for new SoC to try RC's on them.
and RB3011 build on Enteriely new Arch(ARM !!!). which imply troubles for hardware designers/software developers in Much bigger scale than usually and amount of work and time spend on - too, eventually.
Last edited by Zorro on Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sui13
just joined
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:22 pm

Could anyone provide info about OSPF or BGP support for this model?

Thanks in advance!
 
picacho99
newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:03 pm

My feedback is open and available for anybody that may be interested. If you are right, Mikrotik has lied his customer base because started selling a piece of crap, and I don't believe this is the case.

This young device now is working like a charm, at least, for me. ARM platform only means more raw processing power horse than the platforms used in rb2011 or the rb850x2...

RouterOS is not tipically know to capitalize or benefit from silicon facilities (nat handlers, accelerators,. etc.) but raw CPU power horse. Of course there are exceptions for some specific platforms...these than MIkrotik can afford.

And finally: yes, I'm (really) used to write unix and linux kernel code and drivers...this is only to save some of your time on illustrative comments...

RouterOS seats on top of a linux kernel but in the other side linux kernels for RB3011 CPU platfroms are really stable...so we have to let Mikrotik work on this branch of their RouterOS...
 
abis
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:27 am

Hello,

LCD and Switch menu missing... Anyone else have that problem?

Thank you!

p.s. oh, I just saw *) winbox - added LCD menu for RB3011; will be added Switch menu too? :)
Image Image
 
p3rad0x
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:42 pm
Location: South Africa
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:22 pm

Hi,

I have replaced a 2011 with the new 3011 today,

CPU usage came down from 45% ish to about 10% with the same load, running OSPF.

So far so good.
There you go then you touched something ;-) : it only takes a change in wind direction to screw with your nat :-)
 
mavink
newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:13 pm

Hello,

LCD and Switch menu missing... Anyone else have that problem?

Thank you!

p.s. oh, I just saw *) winbox - added LCD menu for RB3011; will be added Switch menu too? :)
RouterOS 6.33.5 does show the switch menu in Webfig, but I don't see it in the CLI or Winbox. The LCD menu is available in all three interfaces.
 
Ascendo
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:48 am

Disappointing that the PSU isn't inside the case.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:02 am

Despite the fact that there is a plenty of space for it. Maybe it's cheaper solution.
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:54 pm

I personally think it's not about space or money, but about huge amount of paperwork and extra certification efforts to put power supply inside.
 
User avatar
BartoszP
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:13 pm
Location: Poland

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:12 pm

A. Cetrification should be processed in each country where MT sells
B. Some countries have rules , as in Poland, that devices which have PSU inside and 230V connector as a part of a chasis could be repaired/opened only by cerified electricians.
C. Same rules say that such devices should be periodically checked and labelled with some kind of "safe" sticker.
Real admins use real keyboards.
 
User avatar
djmanu
just joined
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:44 pm
Location: Vienna
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:24 pm

WHY WHY WHY???

No internal PSU???

I hate external PSU....

This is a verry good universal router for most customers... but external psu on Rackmount Systems is a "no go"

+1 for internal PSU in all Rackmount Systems!

+1 for Redundant PSU in all CCR Systems
 
User avatar
DmitryAVET
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:27 am
Location: Ukraine, Mukachevo
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:56 pm

+1 for internal PSU or second DC-jack on PCB like in RB850Gx2

RB2011 / RM3011 (RM) have place for the IEC-socket, but didn't have second dc-jack.
 
User avatar
grusu
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:05 am

Any news about the "Switch" menu in Winbox?
Did not even appear in the latest 6.34rc version.
 
vitaly2016
newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:18 pm

Any news about the "Switch" menu in Winbox?
Did not even appear in the latest 6.34rc version.
Moreover, there is no MASTER-PORT and BANDWIDTH (RX/TX) drop-down controls in "interfaces" settings (Winbox).

But changing master-port is still available in Webfig or terminal.
 
vstman
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:30 am

My RB3011 is missing same stuff..............really Mikrotik? Can we down grade to 6.33.2, should we?
 
Zorro
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:38 am

different consumers - different opinions.
you love external PSU's in you routers ? i HATE them?
same about monitors, notebooks and number of other relevant gear.
its simply not practical or safe even in SOHO environment. yes its bit "messier" and bulkier, less "sexy-looking", but its more Practical thing. and usually - cheaper and more reliable solution, btw.
 
tealc
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:07 pm
Location: Croatia

Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:26 pm

@Zorro MikroTik gives a very usable alternative, POE in. I have to admit that I started to like thoose much more than either built-in or external PSU. Especially in rack applications. Anyone who teared down rack because of faulty PSU (in switch for example) exactly knows what I mean :-)

Poslano sa mog Mi-4c koristeći Tapatalk
 
ronniee
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:32 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:21 am

WHY WHY WHY???
No internal PSU???
It is a good hardware, but the external small power adapter, it's a shame.
All normal rack mount (ex. tplink, etc.) gigabit switch has internal PSU, and normal pc power cable.
Even this is a router and not a small switch.
I see on the right side of the 3011 case is a place for power plug, I hope the new production batch will have internal PSU.
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:38 am

definitively

it never rains to everyone's taste :lol:
 
User avatar
chechito
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am
Location: Bogota Colombia
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:39 am

external power supply are quickly field replaceable without opening the device

point for external psu :lol:
 
abis
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:20 pm

Hello,

LCD and Switch menu missing... Anyone else have that problem?

Thank you!

p.s. oh, I just saw *) winbox - added LCD menu for RB3011; will be added Switch menu too? :)
Thank you MT for WinBox 3.1 :D
Image Image
 
dobrasekwifi
just joined
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:23 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:26 pm

Just received two RB3011 and struggling to repartition them to have two partitions.

It accepts the commands either via terminal or winbox, reboots fine but after a reboot there is still only one partition.

Anyone else tried repartitioning?
Hello, I didn't be able to repartition my RB3011 with ROS 6.33.5, could you help me? Is this supported function for arm processor? Thank you.
 
mavink
newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:53 am

The new 6.35 release still hasn't addressed the lack of repartitioning functionality on the RB3011; switch menu is visible in Webfig but not in Winbox, and the master port field is still missing for Ethernet interfaces when using Winbox.
 
abis
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:17 pm

The new 6.35 release still hasn't addressed the lack of repartitioning functionality on the RB3011; switch menu is visible in Webfig but not in Winbox, and the master port field is still missing for Ethernet interfaces when using Winbox.
Download WinBox 3.1
Image Image
 
vitaly2016
newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:47 am

1. Friday's release of ROS 6.34 did not solve issue with system time dramatic slow. The only workaround is to switch NTP client off/on periodically

2. My RB3011 reboots within 30 seconds after trying to shutdown it from Winbox. Anyone who has RB3011, please report do you have such issue or not.
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:44 am

2. My RB3011 reboots within 30 seconds after trying to shutdown it from Winbox. Anyone who has RB3011, please report do you have such issue or not.
I bet it will require RouterBOOT update and I think it's not high-priority task since almost noone shutdowns routers ;)
I'm truly interested in your use-case for that.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:28 pm

It was already officially stated that all routerboards are safe to be cut off from the power. Making shutdown leads routerboards to the state in which they cannot be switched on in other way than power recycling. Therefore shut down has sense only for pc or virtualized versions of ros.
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24206
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:33 pm

My RB3011 reboots within 30 seconds after trying to shutdown it from Winbox
Yes, all RouterBOARDs will do this, it is not a bug per-se, it is more something like unsupported feature. Device needs to be disconnected from power to turn off completely. If you don't unplug it, it will start again. Shutdown command is not required, it is quite safe to just unplug it.
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:30 pm

Shutdown command is not required, it is quite safe to just unplug it.
Isn't a shutdown command only useful while running with external storage for e.g. proxy? Cutting power may damage filesystem on it since it's r/w.
 
vitaly2016
newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:25 am

2. My RB3011 reboots within 30 seconds after trying to shutdown it from Winbox. Anyone who has RB3011, please report do you have such issue or not.
I bet it will require RouterBOOT update and I think it's not high-priority task since almost noone shutdowns routers ;)
I'm truly interested in your use-case for that.
Before today I always thought that I should and I must shutdown Mikrotik router before unplug power supply (PS).
Where can I read that unplugging power source is quite safe for Mikrotik if it does not write on external disk drive?

If it is safe why after such unplugging we have RED WARNINGS in log?

What happens with Mikrotik's internal store while unplugging PS in moment of writing log's entry?
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:02 am

Filesystems designed for flash & routers are simple and resistant. If you cut the power in the middle of write you'll lose last write (that's how journaling filesystem works). Giving the fact that these filesystem are WAY simpler than e.g. ext4 you can safely unplug the power. Also applications are written in a way to deal with such situations.
I think the only exception is external harddrive - if you have some full fledged filesystem & running advanced web proxy you generally be better if you unmount filesystem or remount it r/o before unplugging.

I seen information about "cutting the cord" being safe for ROS somewhere in wiki. Also @normis, who works in MT, said that many times ;)
Red warning in MT log serve different purpose. It may be misleading for beginners, but in fact you should know MT is generally professional network equipment. In home we often don't care if router rebooted in the middle of the night - in HA environments it's very important information (having router lose connection for few seconds is not an emergency, but sudden reboot may be sign for something bad).
So in summary these log entries are to inform about sudden reboots.

Btw. I think about auto boot after 30s after shutdown as a safety feature in fact. If you accidentally shutdown AP with battery backup on high mast you'll be thanking for it (and yes, I'm talking from my own experience :lol:).
 
soyelpulpo
newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:22 am
Location: Lima - Peru

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:10 pm

My RB3011 reboots within 30 seconds after trying to shutdown it from Winbox
Yes, all RouterBOARDs will do this, it is not a bug per-se, it is more something like unsupported feature. Device needs to be disconnected from power to turn off completely. If you don't unplug it, it will start again. Shutdown command is not required, it is quite safe to just unplug it.
Hi, if safe why the log complains about impropper shutdown? Maybe the message needs to be changed.
 
vitaly2016
newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Ukraine
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:38 pm

but sudden reboot may be sign for something bad).
So in summary these log entries are to inform about sudden reboots.
Thank you very much for extended explanations. Now I understand.
 
User avatar
Steveocee
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1110
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:09 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:11 pm

On paper sounds brilliant. Execution not so great though and MT support don't seem to be able to answer this;
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... ead#unread
Steve "Steveocee" Carter
PC Gamer, Airsofter, MikroTik Nerd
My Website - My MikroTik Tutorials
 
mono7806
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:57 pm

Hi!

Sorry for my bad English.
Is this hardware is good and stable? The 2x1,4GHz ARM CPU sounds good but it is the first ARM based hardware router on the Mikrotik repertoire as I know.
Can somebody write his experience with this device?

Thanks!
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:01 am

It has some problems with mysterious false-positive loop detection, but other than that it's good.
 
mono7806
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:38 pm

It has some problems with mysterious false-positive loop detection, but other than that it's good.
Thanks your answer!
What is the false-positive loop detection problem exactly? I never heard about this problem.
 
kiler129
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:32 pm
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:13 pm

There's a separate topic about that issue: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=104716
 
mono7806
just joined
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:07 pm

There's a separate topic about that issue: http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=104716
Thank you I read this topic. I think even I'm waiting a few months to purchase... This is a new architecture. The Mikrotik still have to work on it.
 
BennyT
just joined
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:03 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:07 pm

I am interested in using the 3011 device. Would be interesting for me too when the bug is fixed. Thanks
 
maara
newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:42 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Fri May 27, 2016 7:14 pm

Hi,

Anyone tested OVPN throughput when using aes-256?

Thanks!
 
umatrix
just joined
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:47 am
Location: Kazan, Russian Federation

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:26 am

I've just got my RB3011, and it seems that USB port isn't working. Modem starts to blink, but no LTE interface appears. USB flash drives are not visible too. Is it a hardware problem? Should I replace the device?
 
umatrix
just joined
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:47 am
Location: Kazan, Russian Federation

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:50 am

With the latest software update 6.36rc28 my RB3011 doesn't see any usb devices. With current version it works fine.
 
User avatar
grusu
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:50 pm

With the latest software update 6.36rc28 my RB3011 doesn't see any usb devices. With current version it works fine.
I can confirm. I tried with several USB device and does not work on 6.36rc28. All works fine in 6.35.4
 
kristaps
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:39 am

We replicated problem and we will fix this issue with RB3011 and usb. 
 
conecting
newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:38 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:19 am

Hi,
have anybody tested RB3011UiAS-RM with shared drive connected on USB 3.0 port for SMB or Widows share performance ?
Which speed are you getting ?
 
User avatar
cszolee79
just joined
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:10 pm

Hi,
have anybody tested RB3011UiAS-RM with shared drive connected on USB 3.0 port for SMB or Widows share performance ?
Which speed are you getting ?
I only had an USB2 HDD, got 30mb/s on SMB.
One... Hundred... BILLION DOLLARS!
 
sbeauchamp
newbie
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:59 pm

did the encryption hw acceleration ever get turned on for this model?
 
User avatar
nz_monkey
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1818
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:53 pm
Location: Straya
Contact:

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:30 am

did the encryption hw acceleration ever get turned on for this model?
No this requires a kernel newer than the 3.3 that RouterOS v6 uses.

Your best bet is to use a CCR1009, RB1100AHx4 or RB750Gr3
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet FTCNA, FCNSP, FCT | Extreme Networks ENA
 
marcin21
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:46 pm

what about flapping 6-10 ports of 3011?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=104899
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119258

Is it gonna be fixed or is it gonna stay this way forever?
 
Aytishnikcom
just joined
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu May 11, 2017 11:56 am

IPsec accelerator (HW acceleration) RB3011UiAS-RM ???
Когда, сколько ждать?
When, how long to wait?
IPsec accelerator support for RB3011 is still being worked on, the HW acceleration is not yet supported for this model. The CPU is much faster than RB2011 even without HW accelerator.
But HW acceleration will be supported in the near future?
We are working on it, yes.
 
isbiyanto
just joined
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:56 pm

how many nand have your rb3011??
RB3011RESOURCES.jpg
I have RB3011UiAS-RM with CPU Frequency is empty. It's bug or something wrong with my RB?

Thanks.
 
himvas
just joined
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:26 am

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Wed May 16, 2018 1:09 pm

IPsec accelerator (HW acceleration) RB3011UiAS-RM ???
Когда, сколько ждать?
When, how long to wait?
IPsec accelerator support for RB3011 is still being worked on, the HW acceleration is not yet supported for this model. The CPU is much faster than RB2011 even without HW accelerator.
But HW acceleration will be supported in the near future?
We are working on it, yes.
After one year what about HW encryption acceleration?
 
stormeporm
newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:39 pm

Re: RB3011UiAS-RM

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:20 pm

The hardware acceleration for ipsec is here
https://download2.mikrotik.com/news/news_88.pdf

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests